Conference noted::bicycle

     Hi Scott... Where exactly is Carlisle, Ma???
    
     Chip

    	Chip,
    
    	First off, you gotta understand that I live in Nude Hampster.
    
    	Carlisle, MA, is kinda south of Westford and west of Beford.
    	Since I work in Littleton, I just take 110 to 225 east. That
    	takes me right into the center of Carlisle (a small rotary).
    	You stay on 225 until you get to the cemetary and Church St.
    	on your right. That's where the TT starts.
    
    	Scott

     Thanks...
    
     Chip

    hmmm, must blink while he's riding through Carlisle if he doesn't know
    where it is...
    
    ed

    	Went to the TT last night.
    
    	Saw Sue Mildrum, a former Deccie. Found out she lives in
    	Nashua.
    
    	Saw ? Mackin. Ed said she beat Jeanne Golay in a big race last
    	year. She lives in up-state NY and was in the area on business.
    
    	Met Bob Holdsworth. Biggest bike I've seen, although he's no
    	taller than me. After he left (on the TT circuit), Ed mentioned
    	that Bob was 73. Pretty respectable time to: 32:27.
    
    	Scott

    	Nice turnout last night. 13 riders.
    
    	Rich Balderelli	24:24
    	Ed Kross	24:41
    	Ray Schultz	25:19	(1980 Olympic Team)
    
    	Scott

    	Windy last night. Lots of bugs. 7 riders.
    
    	Ed Kross	25:12
    	Bob Holdsworth	32:27	71 years old
    	Dan Wolfson	35:??	10 years old
    
    	Scott

    	Well, it's either feast or famine.
    
    	On 17 May, we had 3 riders (it was raw and cold).
    
    	On 24 May, we had 24 riders (including Karol Zielonko).
    	In fact, Ed had to get his laptop out to figure out the
    	starting order (fastest first).
    
    	Fastest ride was 24:?? by a fella named Larson. Ed was second
    	fastest.
    
    	Scott

>    	In fact, Ed had to get his laptop out to figure out the
>    	starting order (fastest first).

That's not how to do tt starting orders! You've got to scatter the
fast riders through the field, usually off multiples of five, with
the expected fastest off last. How can you have any tension on the
leader board if no-one expects to beat the first time?


Rod

    
    Usual format with a large field is the fastest last. The second fastest
    goes 10 minutes before that, the 3rd 10 minutes before that, etc. When
    you can't go any further back, you put the next fastest 5 minutes
    before the fastest in the field and so on. When you run out of places
    doing that, you should have pretty much covered all the top riders
    anyway. Then it just becomes a case of fitting in riders into the
    spaces making sure that team mates are spread apart.
    
    However, at small events like this one with a turn up on the night
    entry, we used to pick numbers so that it became more of a competition.
    Besides, fastest first and slowest last generally makes the event last
    longer, and riders will find it harder to use their minute man as a
    carrot.
    
    Graham.

    	We all know how TTs are supposed to be run. But Ed has to go
    	before the Carlisle selectmen every year and justify them
    	letting this race continue. So, his compromise is to start
    	fastest first to minimize people passing one another and
    	riding side by side.
    
    	Scott

    
    The world's gone mad. I'm sure of it....
    
    Graham.

    	Tuesday night, at least 5 people stopped to ask or complain
    	about the riders on "their" roads. One older woman yelled that
    	she didn't like cyclists turning in front of her. I told her
    	to tell them, since I was on a bike. Another woman came up and
    	wanted to complain about riders riding two abreast. I asked her
    	which way they were going. When she told me, I said, "They're
    	not with us," and they weren't. The TT is set up with almost
    	all right turns. The cyclists she was asking about were going
    	in the other direction.
    
    	Scott

    One of many cultural differences between the US and [at least parts of]
    Europe is the treatment of bicyclists. In France and Geneva, where I
    lived for several years, bicyclists seemed to be objects of veneration
    rather than objects of verbal abuse. Sigh...
    

     Plus, there are too many people with time on their hands (as well as
    needing a life!).
    
     Chip

>    The world's gone mad. I'm sure of it....
>

Graham, this is the US. In the US. cyclists are, coarsely but also frankly
speaking, treated like shit. 

BTW, I got my first "GET THE F**K OFF THE ROAD" of the season on Tuesday while
warming up for the TT. 

>    	Tuesday night, at least 5 people stopped to ask or complain
>    	about the riders on "their" roads.

I can picture alot of complaints that have nothing to do with the event as these
roads are very popular for cycling every day of the week. Some people are just
bike haters. They just have no concept of sharing the road. (The militant "Cars
Suck" type cyclists don't help any.)

     <- Hey busses and trucks suck too! :-)

RE: <<< Note 2754.13 by DELNI::CRITZ "Scott Critz, LKG2/1, Pole V3" >>>

>	One older woman yelled that
>    	she didn't like cyclists turning in front of her. I told her
>    	to tell them....

Indeed, a cyclist should not turn in front of anyone else in a dangerous/unsafe
manner. Thanks for telling her to tell them.

Sorry to continue away from the time trial topic, but I can't resist. I see
more bad actions carried out by cyclists (e.g., running lights and stops) than
I see bad actions carried out by motorists against cyclists (e.g., yelling,
cutting off). No wonder we have a bad reputation. We deserve it, from what I
can tell.

Just the other night was an incident that really bothered me. I was on a group
ride, about fifth or sixth in line out of ten or twelve. We were riding on a
two-lane road with a gravel/sand shoulder. A car going in our direction, which
was a hundred feet or so in front of the cyclists, signalled, slowed and
stopped in order to turn left (away from us) into a driveway. There wan't much
room between the stopped car and the right edge of the pavement; maybe two
feet. A few other cars behind the first one slowed and stopped, waiting for the
lead car to pull into the driveway.

The lead couple of cyclists braked hard and started yelling at the
waiting-to-turn motorist at the tops of their lungs. The rest of us cyclists
behind had to brake hard and go into the loose shoulder to avoid running into
the first cyclists. No one was hurt or fell over. But the shouting match
(started by the cyclists) continued for a moment until the opposite lane of
traffic was clear and the stopped car was able to turn into the driveway.

What the hell was all the fuss about? Even now I don't see what made the lead
cyclists brake hard and start shouting. There was just enough room to pass the
stopped car. At the end of the ride I talked to the cyclists about it, and they
said that the car should have stopped more over to the left side of the lane
than in the center, where it was. I agreed that this would have been nice. But
there was no need to do what the lead cyclists did.

To make matters worse, after the motorist had pulled into the driveway, and
us group of cyclists continued on our way:

     1)	As the other cars who were stopped behind the turning car were able to
	continue and pass us (in a safe manner), the lead couple of cyclists
	gave the finger to these other cars. There was no cause for that, since
	these other cars had done nothing whatsoever out of the ordinary or
	unsafe.

     2)	The first car (who had pulled into the driveway) pulled back out of the
	driveway and drove up alongside the group and started shouting back at
	us. Of course this made a bunch of the cyclists in the group shout in
	return, yelling all sorts of things, calling out license plate numbers,
	etc. I would not have been a bit surprised to see a fistfight break
	out.

It seems to me that the cyclists screwed up here. For no really compelling
reason that I could see (from my position in the middle of the line), we have
made at least one person HATE cyclists.
						-- Tom

     Yup.. Don't ride with those guys or make those guys not ride with
     you!
    
     Generally, I wouldn't generalize and I'll assume you didn't mean
     too... A lot, maybe. All, defintely not.
    
     Chip
    
     

RE: <<< Note 2754.19 by WMOIS::GIROUARD_C >>>

>     Yup.. Don't ride with those guys or make those guys not ride with
>     you!

I'm thinking hard about it; I'd hate to drop the ride since it's usually very
enjoyable.
    
>     Generally, I wouldn't generalize and I'll assume you didn't mean
>     too...

I over-generalized in my original title to reply 18. I've changed it now to
"Some..."
						-- Tom

    I get noise once in a while.  Oddly enough, it's far worse on weekends.
    
    I have to agree with .18.  For every 1000 cars, I see one jerk.  I hate
    to insult fellow cyclists, but it's more like one in ten.  It seems
    like all you really need to do is be polite, and the rest takes care of
    itself.  I had a cyclist once yell at me and flip me the bird when I
    passed him - and I was on a bike!  Wadda twit...
    

    
    Maybe, I've picked up Scott's message wrong. Who are the 'Carlisle
    selectmen'? I presumed that they were cyclists who organised the
    calendar. That's why I replied. If they are non-cyclists who grant
    permission then that's different...
    
    Remember, the UK may be on this side of the Atlantic and part of the
    European Community (sort of :*), but there the similarity ends. We are
    the least European European country. If you know what I mean...  :*)
    All the American woes do apply to us as well. My particular county
    (Fife) is just lucky that our Chief Constable quite enjoys watching
    bike races and encourages us to organise big races like the one we have
    on this weekend where the 5 national UK countries are firlding their
    Commonwealth Games squads. In other parts of the country, bike races
    are discouraged...
    
    Graham. 

    Selectmen are local (elected) "demi-gods" who make decisions on
    what goes on in cities/towns and what doesn't. Small town politics
    and the rabble that are generally in the middle are usually clueless
    regardless of the debate.
    
    BTW, I always try and be proactive when I'm out. If a motorist sees
    me coming and stops or yields (even when they're supposed to) I 
    always give a friendly "thank you" nod or wave. I figure this is 
    worth its weight in gold and might save someone's life some day.
    
     Chip

    
    Let me guess they are the type of people where you feel that the desire
    to be a selectman should bar you from life from ever being one...
    
    Graham.

    Ahhh, you know the type, eh? :-)
    
     Chip

    There are several forms of government available to towns and cities in
    the USofA.  Each form of gov't in NH is designed by the state so
    that the towns pick from a menu of (I think 9) where the most primative
    is "Selectmen, town meeting" so that we, the town's registered
    voters, elect an odd group of individuals to manage the day to day
    business of the town and we have an annual town meeting to vote on
    such things as budget items and town policy, occasionally directing
    the Selectpersons to do or not do certain things.
    
    These Selectmen are paid a nominal sum in exchange for answering the
    phone calls of the always friendly citizenry and meet regularly,
    usually in public, to discuss town matters.  There is often a big
    hassle about them meeting non-publicly.  For example, if someone
    has a cocktail party and invites 2 of the 3 Selectmen, it could
    be considered an unannounced non-public meeting so they have to be
    careful about what they discuss.  The office is often held by persons
    with some interest in town affairs, such as Realtors, thus there is
    great opportunity for the dreaded Conflict of Interest to occur.
    
    ed
    
    PS: Of course, I meant to say "elect an odd 'number' of individuals" 
    :-)

    	OK, back to our regularly-scheduled TT.
    
    	14 riders (and a couple of riders who arrived a little too
    	late to start).
    
    	Eric Marrow	25:17
    	Ed Kross	25:25
    	Bob Holdsworth	32:25	(71 is what he puts on the sheet. One)
    				(of the other riders says, "Bob's been)
    				(saying he was 71 for years.")

    If he's anything like the frames:
    "Those Holdsworths just keep on rolling."
    
    :-)
    
    ed

    	Nice turn out last night. 17 riders of varying degrees.
    
    	Ed Kross	24:18
    	Rich Balderelli	24:22
    	Bob Holdsworth	31:49

    	14 June 1994
    
    	Interesting evening. Ray Schultz (course record holder) was
    	there to watch. Fella named Ray Johnson also there. Ray Schultz
    	rides in talking about this little guy burning up the course.
    	Well, it was Ray Johnson. He woulda done a sub 24 minutes if
    	he hadn't had to come to a complete stop at the rotary in
    	Carlisle.
    
    	Ray Johnson	24:10
    
    	Sorry, forgot the rest of the times.
    
    	Scott
    	

    	Last night, it was in the high 60s with 100% humidity.
    
    	Nine riders showed for the TT.
    
    	Steve Long	24:20
    	Ed Kross	25:1?
    	Bob Holdsworth	34:58
    
    	This was the first time this year for Steve Long. When he signed
    	in, he put a best time in the high 23s. I said, "Man, that's
    	almost the course record!" Well, he looks real serious and didn't
    	do badly for a damp course and his first time this year.
    
    	Bob was riding a fixed gear and said he was having a little
    	trouble on the descents because he had to spin faster than
    	was comfortable.
    
    	Scott

    	28 June 1994
    
    	? Heidemann		22:31 ******************
    	Ray Schultz/Tom Stevens	23:24
    	Ed Kross		24:41
    
    	The course record is around 23:30, held by Ray Schultz. Well,
    	as you can see, some fella from Colorado rode 22:31. He and
    	I both came up with the same time. There were some doubts
    	last night about the time. Not that he didn't ride the time,
    	but that he might have missed one of the turns.
    
    	Just after the Fenn School in Concord, you have to turn right,
    	then left, then right again. However, it is possible to turn
    	right right right and come out on the same return road, but
    	further up the course. So, we all were a bit skeptical, for the
    	following reasons:
    
    		1. First time on the course
    		2. Not a fast night (by most riders own admission)
    		3. Ray and Tom did a team TT of 23:24
    		4. Heidemann beat Ray's record by a minute.
    
    	Anyway, there were 36 riders last night. In fact, Ray and Tom
    	finished before all the riders had started. I was busier than
    	a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.
    
    	Ed said he's not going to do Fitchburg. He going to spend the
    	long weekend getting in some major miles for RAAM.
    
    	Scott

    This guy show up for the Longsjo? We ahve this kinda thing 
    happen at the Rte 140 TT. People blow into town early (Elite's
    Sports) and blister the TT as a training ride...
    
     Just wondering...
    
     Chip

    	Chip,
    
    	Sorry, I shoulda added that part. Yes, he said he was here
    	from CO to ride the Longsjo. I missed his first name, but
    	his last name was definitely Heidemann.
    
    	I wish we could confirm what route he actually took. But,
    	since both get you to the same road, we'll probably never
    	know for sure.
    
    	Scott

    	Nice turnout last night. Something like 33 riders. No wind
    	to speak of and few mosquitos. I did make one fella a little
    	mad when he discovered that I had no finish time for him.
    	He did admit that he got lost, so his time would have been
    	bogus, anyway. And, we gave him his money back, so all he
    	expended was a little time and energy and now he knows the
    	course.
    
    	? Larkin	23:49
    	Kurt Hackler	24:45 (This is one fast teenager)
    	Ed Kross	24:45
    
    	Scott

    	The three H's last night. Still had 22 riders show up. I met
    	a few people I didn't know. Last TT for Ed before RAAM. He
    	and half the crew are leaving Saturday. The rest of us fly
    	out on the 27th.
    
    	Ed Kross	24:3?
    	Bob Holdsworth	31:13	(The oldest rider there (71). Bob's till
    				(hoping to break 31 minutes)
    	Dan Wolfson	33:00	(The youngest rider there (10))
    
    	Bob Evans and one of his friends were only seconds apart, with
    	Bob losing. That brought out some interesting expletives.
    
    	Scott

    	Arrive at a time station during RAAM. "We have a message for
    	you." Ray Johnson sets a new course record while Ed and krew
    	are away. I think it was 23:13. I'll find out for sure tomorrow
    	night when I see Ed and let you know.
    
    	Scott

    	Well, 37 (or 39) riders last night. Ed Kross showed up just
    	as we were sending riders off. Ray Johnson was there, of
    	course.
    
    	Ray set the NEBC club record while we were at RAAM:
    
    		23:16
    
    	He broke it last night:
    
    		23:05
    
    	I guess John Heidemann, mentioned in 2754.32, still has
    	the course record.
    
    	Scott

    	About 16 to 18 riders last night.
    
    	Barb Pike	29:52
    
    	This is a new record, although I don't have the specifics, such as
    	age, NEBC or non-NEBC, etc. Old record was something like 30:05.
    
    	She was happy.
    
    	Scott

    	16 riders last night. A couple new folks.
    
    	Ed Kross	24:59
    	Charles Lamb	27:00
    	Bob Evans	27:08
    
    	Iffen you want to do this TT, only two more nights left (last
    	night will be 13 September).
    
    	On another note, Ed said he was the first one across the line
    	at the RR at Stratton Mountain. He didn't win, however.
    	Unfortunately, he was between the lead rider (who was out of
    	sight) and the pack (who were out of sight). He came to a T that
    	had a cop holding traffic. Problem was, Ed turned the wrong way
    	and they didn't tell him otherwise. So, he crossed the line
    	thinking he got second. The USCF official informed him of his
    	error. One or two of the riders last night were needling him
    	a little. What a hoot. And, he said he was riding really well
    	for a RR.
    
    	Scott
    	

    	Nine riders last night. And, I actually wrote down all the
    	times.
    
    	Owen Mconagle	24:35
    	John Rowles.....24:47
    	Ed Kross........25:05
    	Brian Fuller....25:49
    	Rob Naser.......25:52
    	Scott Carlson...26:32
    	Charles Lamb....26:58
    	John Richards...27:23
    	Norm Harris.....31:00
    
    	Only one more night. Starting to get dark pretty early now.
    
    	Scott
    
    	

    	12 riders last night for the last TT of the year.
    
    	Tom Scanlon.....23:53 (PR for Tom)
    	John Rowles.....24:21
    	Owen McGonigle..24:23
    	Ed Kross........24:23
    	Kurt Hackler....24:39
    	John Richards...27:45
    	Van Bares.......29:27
    	Jeff Hattem.....30:25
    	Stan Grayson....30:45
    	Norm Harris.....30:50 (PR for Norm)
    	Brian Faulkner..31:46
    	Dan Wolfson.....32:40 (11 years old)

    	Karol Zielonko and I were talking about this TT the other day.
    	One of the towns has installed stop signs where once there was
    	only a blinking yellow light. This, of course, affects greatly
    	the TT. Anyway, I received a newsletter last night from NEBC
    	(Ed Kross' club) wherein he indicates that these stop signs may
    	sound the death knell for the Charlie Baker Memorial TT. Other
    	comments indicate that this TT has been going on continuously
    	for something like 30 years.
    
    	My last day here is the 17th of February, so any further info
    	will have to be gotten elsewhere.
    
    	Scott