Conference noted::bicycle

     It's what MERLIN uses. I've had no problem...
    
    
        Chip

    I tried them thinking they were a good idea and all.  On the bike
    I ride year round, the first one I put in went bad in a little over
    a year.  I replaced it with another and it also went bad in around
    the same time.  Now I have a Dura Ace bottom bearing on and it works
    fine, I have had no trouble in two years, and haven't bothered repacking
    it yet (soon since it's spring.)

    The one on my other bike has held up, but I don't ride that bike thru
    the winter, it doesn't have fenders and I'd get spashed with crud
    if I did.

    I've concluded that sealed bearings on a road bike are useless since
    some sealed bearing hubs (not PW) I had also failed, while some old Campy
    record hubs have been going strong for ages, outlasting more than
    one set of rims.

    Note that the bearings in these things are *not* designed for cycling.
    They're standard motor bearings pressed into a machined housing.

    - Jim

Shimano now is going sealed/cartridge bearing in a lot of
their line.  I wonder if this is just your problem.  
I believe Campy is also going this way.  

When you said it went "bad", exactly what to you mean?

steve

    what difference would "designed for cycling" make?
    
    ed

    expensive, in garish colors and made out of odd metals/composites ?

    Well, I could show you the cartridges and it would be obvious :-)

    I still have them.

    As for "designed for cycling" - I'm not a mechanical engineer, but
    when I look at the quality of construction and longevity under
    all kinds of riding conditions that I see in the older Campy
    gear - that's "designed for cycling"...  the older Campy stuff
    seems to have evolved slowly, without the market pressure for
    instant obsolesence that goes with much of the newer tweako gear.

    You can't repack or even replace sealed bearings without some weird
    tools to pull them out and press them in.  The Campy hubs/BB bearings
    can be repacked with simple tools and don't require a lot of babying.

    One of the things I *like* about bicycles is that I don't have to
    go to some dammn "specialist" to have them come hold my hand and
    fix the thing for me.  I thought that I'd put sealed bearings on
    and never worry about them again, but it didn't work out.

    Anyway, I'm not an anti-progress Luddite - some of the newer ideas
    in bicycles are worthwhile (particularly if you race) but I like stuff
    that really works.

    - Jim

     Jim, I think you'll find that your luck with sealed bearings
    is in the minority. They do require a lot less attention and
    do wear better. The very older ones may not have.
    
     I can only speak from personal experience. All positive. I don't
    know the economics of sealed bearing $'s vs. bearings/races/grease
    so I can't even converse in that arena.
    
      Chip

    Jim,
    
    Why don't you send your BB back to Phil's?  I'm sure they'd 
    appreciate any data that they can get on failure modes,...
    and they might even send you a new and improved one. (that would
    be a bonus!)
    
    -john
    

    Herewith my experiences with Phil Wood.
    
    I've been running the same PW hubs for 15 years, with lots of miles on
    them.  Have replaced the bearing only once - it's not too difficult, if
    you can improvise a bearing press using a bench vice.  How long the
    bearings last depends on how much side to  side play in your rims you
    can tolerate.
    
    My PW bottom bracket lasted about 8 years, then suddenly died of acute
    bearing failure.  I sent it back to Phil, asking them if they could
    replace the bearing, because I couldn't figure out how to disassemble
    the thing.  They sent me a new one!!, no  questions, no cost!  It's
    been in use ever since.
    
    As for comparison to 'designed for cycling' components, my Campy Record
    hubs have lasted as long as the Phil Woods, with a similar number of
    total hours spent on maintenance.
    
    My only complaint is that I can't justify new equipment, because the
    old stuff is still working perfectly.
    
    Rick
    

>    I tried them thinking they were a good idea and all. ...the first one I put
>in went bad in a little over a year.

i had a similar experience with PW when i was in 10000mile-a-year mode (early
80's)  after less than one season the thing was toast. i rode this bike in all
conditions. i didn't have a "rain bike". this and another bad experience with
specialized sealed bearing hubs really turned me off of sealed bearings. for me
sealed bearings were not something that wouldn't break but were something that,
when they broke you couldn't fix it. or put differently they aren't maintenance
free they're unmaintainable. recently i've purchased a rear wheel with mavic
sealed bearing hubs. we'll see how it goes.

ps i too love my old campy hubs. to me those thing were the best things that
campy made.

   Just a postscript - the Dura Ace BB bearing I put in nearly 2 years
   ago has just crapped out (on a ride from Maynard down to Port Jefferson
   LI and back this weekend, naturally.)  It started clicking loudly
   all of a sudden and now feels loose.

   I think you have to just plan on throwing that part out every year
   or two, it looks hopeless until someone really designs bearing seals
   that work!

   On the subject of Dura Ace - I see in the latest Performance catalog
   that you can't get the origional Dura Ace crankset or chainrings
   anymore (?)  There is some "new improved" crankset - and get this -
   according to the catalog it can only be used with a special BB bearing??

   I can see it now, in the future every dammn crankshaft will require
   some wierd-ass special BB bearing.  Makes "perfect marketing sense".

   I think I'll go back to Campy.  Chip (or anyone else with one) - is
   the so-called Campy Record crankset the one you have?  A problem I had
   with the older Super Record cranksets was the chain (Sedisport Black)
   would often get stuck in between the rings when shifting from the
   big to the small ring.  This never happens with the Dura Ace.
   I *assume* this never happens with the current Campy gear.  I'll be
   furious if I get one and this problem occurs again.

   - Jim

     I have never had that problem with C RECORD. My Merlin has sealed
    bearings now, but (in my pre-Merlin life) I ran Chorus & RECORD
    with absolutely no problems. My TT bike sports a C Record crankset
    (the whole deal) and my Merlin has C RECORD cranks and chainrings
    sans the spindle and bearings... No problem
    
     Chip