Conference noted::bicycle

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.......

.......

(almost lost for words......)


Just yesterday I was saying that I perceived a backlash against Technology, my
opinion is that many people are revolting against what is "progress".  From
this I mean for example, that people are wanting cars that just go, are reliable
to run and to maintain rather than the latest 16-v, turbo, voice operated rubbish that is
on offer at the moment.  I am extremely saddened by the announcement, Graham, I
can only say that I will buy at least two more before they completely disappear
and hope they will last me.

I must add that my feelings are more concrete than a yearning for the Good Old
Days - I have tried 2 of the so-called revolutionary saddles, both Turbo's in
fact, and I persevered with them for at least 6 months.  These were the most
uncomfortable of my biking life so I returned to the Brooks Pro - what relief!
(As an aside, my wife tried the so-called "Special Anatomic Ladies Turbo" and
went back to the B15 Swallow which came from my first Rory O'Brien in 1959).

I have seen the Colts down at Fusberti's but even with the best will in the
world I cannot imagine paying up to 400 FF for them, so I must appeal to the
readers of this file and ask anyone who can easily buy a Brooks Pro (big rivets
and such good stuff) in England and get it to Valbonne without contributing to
the already gross profits of La Poste and The Post Office to contact me.

     Sheesh Graham... If you're gonna insult me at least have the decency
    to spell my name right!
    
     BTW, they laughed at Fulton, the laughed at Bell, they laughed at
    Columbus, they laughed at Ford, they laughed at the The Wizard of
    Menlow Park... It only hurts for a little bit fellas...
    
      Chip

    
    OK, so typings not one of my strong pooinrtsd...
    
    BTW, what's this about the world not being flat anymore? When did they
    change it?  :*)
    
    Graham.

    
    Nothing to do with the base note, other than the fact that Graham
    mentioned this week's Cycling Weekly, which contains Reading Cycling
    Club's moment of fame for this year. If you look at the picture on the
    back page of the editor at the end of the "Up the Downs" Audax, the
    sweaty bearded bloke lurking in the background is the RCC's touring
    secretary.  He was the butt of much humour yesterday because of this...
    
    Trevor

	Never has been flat , just full of hills , mountains , inclines and
	declines ( mine ) . Funny thing is tho ,the going up bits are always
	longer than the going down bits . 

	jimb...

    
    	We should rename this note 'Old Codgers of the World Unite'...
    
    It looks like that cane rims are a safety hazard. There is a letter in
    this weeks CW from a rider who had just got a beautiful pair made up
    and took them out for a spin. Whilst descending, the braking overheated
    the rims and they burst into flames...
    
    Can't buy a saddle without Ti, can't buy wooden rims without passing a
    basic fire fighting course. There's no point in living any more... I'd
    ask Chip if I could borrow his Ti gun, but getting killed by the stuff
    would be the final insult, so I'll just have to struggle along...  :*)
    
    Graham.

I watch 4 Digital biking notesfiles.
I have been called an Old Codger in 2 of them.

I'm beginning to fear it may be true........

But, if it means I am proud of old values in manufacturing, in service, in ways
of enjoying oneself, in ways of dealing with others.....

THEN I'm proud to be an O.C.

    
    
    Wasn't it me in both of them though?  :*)
    
    Graham_whos_an_old_codger_at_21_and_proud

     21!!! Well Graham, that does explain a lot! :-)
    
        Chip

    
    
    Yes, it was pointed out to me very subtley last night by Rod W and Alan
    that they thought I was 40 before meeting me....  Depressing or what?
    
    :*) Graham.

    
    
    Well, next year I turn 40...and to be quite honest I prefer my old
    Brooks Professional (on my classic R.E.W. Reynolds) to my Titanium
    Railed wonder on my new Bianchi.   I do know of a source of a couple
    of those wonderful saddles...think I'll save my pennies and grab one!
    
    What is it about our old rumps and that thick leather??
    
    8^)

     My rump turns 40 on November 26th. I think it's the thickness and
    pliability of your butt vs. the saddle - not the other way around
    
      :-)..........
    
                     Chip
     

this may seem silly but...

did anyone ever think to send your complaints to the people at brooks? maybe
if they get enough letters of complaint regarding their decision to discontinue
the old saddles they might reconsider.

    Other than the $$$, I don't understand the problem here.  From the
    picture in the newest Bicycling Magazine, they have the same Brooks
    Pro saddle, and simply replaced the frame with Ti.  Rivets and all
    are still there.  I would think this would be even more comfy than
    the original.  
    
    steve

I don't want a Ti framed saddle - IMHO it is technology for technology's sake,
a Brooks saddle will weigh about 10% less with a Ti frame and at its already
heavy level this is just a waste of time and money.  Maybe you guys on your
over-inflated salaries can afford to go this way - I know I can't    ;>)   and
I don't want to.....

Just as well I'm feeling aimiable this morning or I might say what I really
think.........

     The savings is beyond 10%. I believe the savings ratio (straight)
    between steel and Ti is approx. 45%. I can't remeber the exact
    figures, but I think the gram comparison in the ad reflects about
    that. The Ti rail system puts it into competition with some of the
    contemporaries.
    
     I really hate to say this, but it sounds like a case of deeply
    entrenched, never mind the logic, I don't care it does get me
    another 3mph I want my Wheateena type of thing... :-)
    
     I guess you'll have to either swallow some nostalgia or, then again
    you can dial 1-800-wahhhhh... :-) Just kidding - Just kidding... I
    think it's a 900 number now... :-)
    
       Chip

    Can anyone quote me a price on this? Speaking as a serious Brooks Pro
    user since 1978, I'd like to know what these Ti things cost.
    
    Piers

re .16

The Brooks Pro is heavy because of the thick leather - what I was pointing out
was that the frame is a small proportion of the total.  I don't care if Ti
weighs 1/100th of steel, it's the proportion that counts.  Anyone who believes
(as anything but a professional who earns his living by riding bikes) that
shaving milligrams off at the price of mega-currency will lead to instant
success is off his head.

What use is a saddle that saves me so much that I can ride at 50kph, if I can
only sit on it for 15 minutes?  Kind of restricts one's distances...... As an
O.C. who has ridden bikes for 35 years, I would rather enjoy the next 10 using
equipment I am sure of rather than risk a pointless change (or just to keep up
with fashion and allow the manufacturers to increase their profits - I bet they
love you guys).

It's only a pastime folks, it's not life and death.

    	The Brooks Pro saddle mentioned earlier by Steve Fuller in
    	the new BICYCLING costs $175.
    
    	During RAAM '92, Ed rode a couple of days with another saddle
    	and then changed to an old Brooks saddle, which he used for the
    	rest (and majority) of the race.
    
    	Scott

    According to the note below the picture, it's suppose to weigh in about
    the same weight as a regular Turbo. 
    
    Price is another matter. 
    
    (Personally I heavily dislike these leather saddles, I have tried the
    Ideal, and Brook Pro in the past, I have found sitting on these
    rivets while climbing less than comfortable)
    
    steve

    I thought the endearing qualities of a Brooks were comfort
    and durability.  I have broken two "alloy rail" saddles' rails
    with less than 5 years effort.  I don't think a Ti rail
    saddle would last 10 years.  Why put it on a Brooks?
    
    ed

     Ti has a fatigue factor of more than twice that of steel. I
    guess that's why it works with saddles. Ti is an alloy (in cycling
    applications as a rule), but it's not to be confused with aluminum
    alloys which do have a tendency to develop stress fractures...
    
     It is sacrilage to put Ti into the peasant alloy class! :-)
    
        Chip

    The rivets have a very slight tendency to rise above the leather in the
    first 500km or so of use as the leather shapes itself to your posterior
    -- but a few well-aimed blows with a normal hammer will soon have them
    flattened out. That's one of the things I like most about them.
    
    Easily the most comfortable saddle I've ever used, the Brooks Pro. And
    it looks as though I shall be treasuring it all the more carefully if
    it's going to cost $175 to replace.
    
    Piers 

    
    From the picture of it in Bicycling it looks just as "classic" as the
    earlier Brooks saddles. The weight was about 350 grams (or was it
    380?). I think the weight of the original is listed as 540 grams. 
    
    
    I'm still riding my Brooks pro saddle on my old Motebecane "Grand
    Record", however it still is a bit on the hard side even after all 
    these years. 
    
    Just how do you break these things in??

    
    
    Break the Brooks in?  Nah, it's your behind that molds itself to the
    Brooks!!  Seriously it DOES take at least a 1000 miles to break one in
    if you don't subscribe to the 'hammer method'.  I just couldn't bear
    whacking that lovely saddle with a hammer.  
    
    After building my new cycle last winter with a Titano-200 saddle I was
    pleased enough with it's comfort on shorter rides (a majority of my
    rides this year have been in the 17-30 mile range).  I did mange to
    squeeze a few longer rides (including a Century with Ed) and found I
    had one very sore behind.   Now I've upgraded the ole Reynolds to
    indexed shifting (Campy, of course) and I've been riding the ole Brooks
    again...DAMN it is a comfy saddle (with probably 5000 miles on it).
    And yes, I would consider the Ti version if I have to replace it some
    day...let's hope those mailorder companies do some good discounting!!
    
    -Stevewhoswillingtobeflexible!