Conference noted::bicycle

    Are you buying a new one or used?  If it is new, all I can say his
    frames sure are pretty.  No idea on his building philosophy or how
    straight they are.  I would make sure his building design fits your
    needs.  

    
    	There is an ad in Dirtrag in which there is a number to call
    It is a secret number. The factory or shop is ub near Newburyport
    and they want to deal direct with the customer.
    
    	Roger

>    Are you buying a new one or used?

i'm getting a new road frame. if i had ted build the bike it would be a tig
welded ritchey logic.

>If it is new, all I can say his frames sure are pretty.

the guy that does his painting also does peter mooney's.

>No idea on his building philosophy or how
>straight they are.  I would make sure his building design fits your
>needs.  

i went up to his place in amesbury 2 weeks back and yapped with him for 4 hours.
he was an unassuming guy with nothing to prove and no chip on his shoulder when
it came to talking about other frame builders. he also didn't seem to be in a
hurry to get me outta there so he could get some work done. anyway i really
liked the guy.

his philosophy as he describes it is to build bikes so they come out straight
without requiring any cold setting which is evidently difficult with the tange
and ritchey logic tubesets.

my dilemma is to choose between an exceptionally good deal on a serotta colorado
II (wholesale + $100 from friend who owns bike shop) or a ted wojcik for $150
more. i've heard nothing but rave reviews about serotta in general and the
colorado II in particular but have heard nothing about wojcik's frames. hence
this note.

    When I talked with Ted last year he said he'd rather build off-road
    frames and was raising the prices on his road frames in order to reduce
    demand and apparently "perceived quality" cause ddemand for his
    frames to go up after he raised the price.
    
    ed

    The Colorado II, I believe, is made with Columbus Nivachrome (MAX)
    tubing, oversize.  Very stiff and strong.  From what little reading I
    have done on the stuff, it is greatly suited to larger riders because
    of it's stiffness.  
    
    Personally, I am of the old school, fillet brazing or lugged.   I like
    the looks.   It makes me nervous looking at these 2 tubes sticking
    together with hardly anything supporting the joint.  Millions of frames
    later rest assure that TIG welding is good.
    
    steve

>    The Colorado II, I believe, is made with Columbus Nivachrome (MAX)
>    tubing, oversize.  Very stiff and strong.  From what little reading I
>    have done on the stuff, it is greatly suited to larger riders because
>    of it's stiffness.

i'm 6'3" and will be getting a 63 cm frame. i guess that qualifies as large
(although i only weigh 155-165). 

the tubeset is nivacrom but is neither MAX nor EL. it is custom made for
serotta.

	I'm not exactly a big rider (5'11' @ 135 lbs) and I have a Serotta
	Colorado I. (Onlt minor differences from the II). This frame is very
	stiff but does NOT have the harsh ride you find on an SLX or a TSX
	frame. It rides exceptionally smooth, especially on bumpy roads. It
	also climbs well. I've had two SLX frames (an Atala and a Tommasini)
	and this frame rides and performs magnitudes better.

	Steve

    Pound for pound, I would probably go for the Serotta also, the Colorado
    is a well proven machine.  However, because of your tallness, do you
    need any changes in frame geometry or will the Colorado II fit you
    entirely...ie: Top tube length.   I assume the Wojick(sp) is custom
    made?  
    
    Since you are spending decent $$$ make sure the frame suits your
    intended purpose.
    
    steve

thanks for the info and opinions. between the notes and the mail i got i decided
to go the way i was already leaning which is to get the serotta. i was impressed
with the overall design of the frame and have heard nothing buit good reviews.

as far as fit is concerned i'm confident a stock serotta will fit me. my last
decision is whether to go with the slightly small (ie might still need mountain
bike seat post) 63cm. or the larger but heavier, less rigid 64cm.

oddly enough, the serotta is an easier fit in one way than would be the wojcik.
it has to do with lengths of seat tubes in stock tube sets. ted wojcik is a
custom builder but he uses stock tubesets to build his frames and is thus
constricted by the same maximum seat tube sizes that everyone else is. the
ritchey logic tubset that he uses to make a tig welded frame comes with a
maximum seat tube length of 62 cm. this means that, to make a 62+ frame, he has
to either graft some extra tubing in there somewhere or just scrap the seat tube
entirely and substitute with a generic cromo seat tube. this is a major
compromise as far as i'm concerned and is one of the key reasons for choosing
the serotta.  because the tubeset serotta uses is proprietary it comes in larger
seat tube lengths and so circumvents this problem.

the second significant advantage i saw in a stock frame (and especially in one
so widely used as the colorado II) is that the geometry is tried and true. my
concern with a custom is that every custom is, to some extent, an experiment.

the final factor is price. while the standard retail for the serotta seems to be
$1400 to $1500 (which is too much in my opinion) the deal i got from my friend
moves the serotta from being more expensive than many customs to being less so.

>    Since you are spending decent $$$ make sure the frame suits your
>    intended purpose.

i'm looking for a "pure road bike" and this bike seems to fit the bill
perfectly.

thanks again for all the opinions.