Conference noted::bicycle

    
    I believe the ground control shoes are not compatible with the Look
    pedals.  When/If you buy the shimano pedals you will get all the 
    "fixin's" (cleats and assorted hardware) you need to get rolling.
    
    FWIW, I have the shimano pedals and love them.
    
    Stew
    

    Stew, Thanks.... that's what I thought after looking at the sole of the
    shoe. Didn't appear that there was space for the Look fixing.
    
    As I mentioned the reason I'd like to get Look is that they work in a
    similiar to the road Look system. How easy is the Shimano system to get
    in to and out off ? (One reason for looking for the clipless system is
    that I've totally forgotten how to get my feet into toe clips after
    being spoilt with Look road pedals for the past 3/4 years).
    
    Also... from what I remember there are two Shimano pedals. What's the
    difference ?
    
    John

    
    The more expensive of the 2 types of shimano pedal look alot "beefier"
    (How's that for technical?), and there supposed to be easier to get
    into and out of.  
    
    When I first got the pedals I had the tension adjustment at *tad* too
    tight, and did a LOT of falling because of it.  Everyone else seemed to 
    think that was great, but I didn't enjoy it much.  Since I've toned
    down the adjustment I've had no problem.
    
    There's really not much difference entering and exiting the shimano
    pedals from look road pedals.  It's basically the same motion.
    
    Stew
    

    One advantage of SPD over Look is that SPD pedals are 2-sided, so
    engaging is somewhat easier.  This can make a big difference on loose
    or steep terrain.
    
    Ken
    

I have seen two incidences of screws coming loose and falling out.  When that
happens your foot is trapped.  The shoe cannot be removed from the pedal and
requires one to undo the laces to get off the bike.  Then the lock on the pedal
has to be pulled back to release the cleat.

Both instances have been pretty strong riders who really torque the pedals in
tricky going.

    Thanks guys... once again the power of notes. The shoes are only
    compatable with the Shimano system. 
    
    I since bought the pedals and took them for a test ride over the
    weekend. The difference is amazing. Just like when I move from Toe
    clips to Look pedals on my road bike. No more sore fee and I can
    actually get my feet into the clipless easier than the clips. They do
    indeed have an action like the Look road system (and being two sided is
    a great advantage).
    
    John
    
    PS. Oh.. my test ride took in a round of the french downhill VTT
    championship (as a spectator !). Amazing machinery and amazing some of
    the drops these folks go over !

    
    	RE-1
    		Would you mind doing a report or description of
    	the French downhill.
    
    	Roger

    
    I'm on the road for the next few days but I will put together a report
    and possibly post it early next week.
    
    John

    For years I have ridden with toe clips and old pairs of running shoes.
    I purchased a pair of Specialized ground control shoes and noticed an
    immediate improvement.  Their stiff sole gave me much more power on the 
    hills and I can ride in higher gears with less fatigue.  Now I want to 
    remove the toe clips and go clipless.  Reasons ?  Comfort mainly, those
    clips bother my toes.
    
    Any recommendations ?  The Speedplay pedals seem like a possibility.
    Ritchie has interesting mtb pedals that I saw advertized in the
    Colorado Cyclist catalog (315 & 350 g).   I want something that
    requires minimal maintenance, handles hiking on muddy and rocky trails, 
    is easy to enter/exit, does not promote injury, reasonably priced 
    (< $ 100 US), and lasts a long time.  
    
    Advice much welcomed !

    I'm not a mudhead but love to get out in the woods a lot and run
    run around hurting myself.
    
    Anyway, I have the Shimano spuds, as do many of my riding buddies, 
    and am very happy with them. I've used them for 2 years now and
    have not had one accidental release or have them fouled so that
    I could not step in. The do get nasty, dirty, and abused, believe
    me.
    
    FYI, write-ups on the Speedplay Frogs state that they foul easily.
    I use the Speedplay road pedals, however, and wouldn't trade them
    for Merlin Ultra Light. <- I'm kidding, of course :-)
    
    Chip

Of course the Shimano pedals have been the mainstay for off road pedals 
for quite some time.  Both the new 535 and 747 pedal are better then their 
predecessors.  I use the 535 pedal and my wife uses the 747 both are very 
nice.

I have read and heard many good things about the Ritchey pedal and would 
consider those also.

In the price that you are looking for either the ritchey ($99.99) or the
535 ($99.99) would work.  Both have float and the Ritchey is the lighter 
of the two at 350gr to 410gr for the 535.  I went with the 535 because of
known good performance and so that my wifes and my pedals are compatable.

Other pedals that would fit in your range include the following.

Performance MC4 ($59.99/460gr) - I used these as my first clipless pedals
                                 they work OK but wear out quickly.  I got
                                 one season out of them.

Onza HO ($89.99/350gr) - People seem to either love these or hate them.
                         Most people I know seem to have a hard time getting
                         out of them.

Tioga Clipman ($79.99/350gr) - I have not heard many good things about these
                               pedals.  But I havn't really talked to many 
                               people using them.

Be prepared for a little time to get used to whatever pedals you get.  They 
are a little different at first, even if you are used to road clipless.  
This is mostly due to the fact that you can't plan when you are going to try
and get out of your MB clipless.  However once you get used to them you will
never want to go back.  I really think that clipless pedals are the biggest 
improvment that you can make on a mountain bike.

Good luck and happy hunting

Scott

    
    
    Scott,  by mentioning 'you can't plan when you are going to get out
    of them' what exactly do you mean. I for example, when going downhill
    (which I like to do a lot) at high speed, want to be able to pop out
    of my pedal, so going over some bumps and jumps I can use my foot 
    as an anchor to hold the bike up right rather than crashing. Sometimes
    even going over a log and jumping it at higher speeds I don't always
    land straight so a quick push off the ground with one foot would save
    me from falling.  Although I have clipless on my road bike, for 
    the above reasons I have been weiry of adding clipless on my MTBs. 
    
    Shaw

Shaw,

What I ment was that when you are about to fall you need to get your foot out 
now!  There is no time to think about taking you foot out it has to be a 
reaction.  I find that when I plan to take my foot out my pedal on the releasing
foot is always at the six oclock position and at bail time its at twelve oclock. 

This makes for a different type of feeling, kind of like when you are trying to
go real slow on the road bike without taking your foot out but then you start to
lose it.

You get over it in a hurry but you may fall over a few times first.

Hope that helps,
Scott

i use the onza pedals and have never had trouble releasing at 'unplanned'
instances.  having heard that some did have some release trouble, i used one
'rubber spring' lighter than i might have otherwise -they give you 4-.  i use
sidi shoes, and onza recommends cutting off the sole right next the cleat for
better/easier insert/removal.   i was too lazy to do this, and dont think it
would have helped any.  if memory serves, the specialized shoes have a much
'smoother' sole, so i dont think you care

i much prefer clipless over toeclips, i previously used dura-ace road pedals w/
clips -yes, on a mtb-, but upgraded 2 yrs ago when i could not find a new
clip to replace the one i broke -stepped on it one to many times

if you are a serious pedal pounder, be aware that some pedals have a 'max weight
limit' for the lighter axles, though for <100 you might not need to worry unless
the steel is of different grades

--roger

    I contacted a fellow mtb cyclist who switched from SPD to Speedplay.  
    He races and after 2 months on the new pedals likes them better for the
    following reasons:
    
    1.  easier to enter/exit in extremely muddy conditions.  
    2.  more rotation permits natural movement.  The SPD feeling of
        locked-in-like ski boots is not missed.
    3.  easier to exit in all conditions - effortless slide your heel sideways
    4.  lighter pedal
    
    The only drawback he mentioned is that the Speedplay pedal is smaller
    and is harder for him to enter than his former SPD, but more time
    should get him trained in this maneuver.

    Goes to show ya... the rags panned the ATB Speedplays stating they
    foul easily.
    
    Chip

    Resistance to fouling was what my friend liked about the Speedplays. 
    On a very muddy course, cleat to pedal worked for him while other
    competitors (SPD prevalent) were left behind.  Time for a test ride.

    I have a friend who uses these pedals.  He reports that they are
    somewhat tricky to get out of when the crank arm is vertical in its
    high position.  He mentioned planning on switching them to his road
    bike and getting something for his MTB.
    
    Rick, who only has second hand information about speedplays.
    

         I just got a set of Shimano 535's and Nike Poobah shoes.  As a
    package, I paid $180.  I haven't mastered them yet but I don't get the
    tingling toes or sore insteps the toe clips used to give.  I was told
    that the Onza's worked well but that the elastomer springs did not hold
    up as well as mechanical springs and that the Tioga's had plstic
    bushings rather than bearings of the competition.  What surprised me
    most was that the standard price at the shop beat the catalogs!
    
    Good Luck!
    Tom

      After waiting too long for a local shop to receive cleats for the
    Speedplay's, I decided to go with the flashy red Ritchey pedals 
    (I know - they will lose their new appearance soon).  Colorado Cyclist 
    was kind enough to install and adjust the cleats and pedals.
    
      They work great, are comfortable, and the lighter weight (350g) is
    noticeable.  I tried numerous entry and exits on the road and the next 
    day headed for the trails.  Only had to exit once (steep uphill + 
    tree root = unplanned wheelie) and the feet popped right out with no 
    effort - just rotate that heel slightly and the spring pushes you out.
    
      Clipless and Happy.

    
    
    
    	Just went clipless after several years of toe-clips/straps.  I
    bought the Ritchey Logic and Specialized ground control pedals/shoes.
    
        I then proceeded to take a road ride to get used to them.  Clipping
    IN is/was tricky but I'm getting better at it.  Exiting the pedal is
    easy, if you try.  My only problem was remembering to try. ...8')
    
    	So here I am coming down this hill in a part of town I'm not very
    familiar with, where I see this gentleman on the side of the road
    doing yard work.  As I   s-l-o-w-l-y  roll by, I ask him what the name
    of the street is.  He looks up as I pass, and now I am looking BACK at
    him, slowing down even more to hear his answer.  He never heard the
    question so I ask again as I come to a complete stop and....you
    quessed it..fall over, (lucky for me I had the pedals at the lowest
    tension and was able to save my knee).    The guy got a good laugh..
    
    and then he proceeded to tell me everything I ever wanted to know about
    the street!