Conference noted::bicycle

There are special Hyperglide chains, HG70 and HG90 are the codes that come
to mind. Be aware that these chains should only be broken at the special
black rivet. They come with spare rivets.

Having said that, I've had good luck using stock Sedis chain in my 105SC
Hyperglide system.

There are a lot of notes in here discussing this topic.


Rod

    FWIW, I've gotten away with breaking and reassembling an HG90 at
    just any old link.  They say not to do it, and the "heads" on the
    pins may not take it again, but it can be done in a pinch (read:
    I couldn't find the damn black pin).  This at least 1000 miles ago.
        

Funny this topic should come up today: I just changed the chain on my bike last
night.  I was running a Sedis black chain, which many people in the conference
have used with good luck.  (My bike has Shimano 105.)  However, when I put the
Sedis chain on this Spring it seemed to run pretty loud.  My husband put a
Shimano HG 91 on his bike and it ran *much* quieter.  I haven't had any real
problems with my shifts, though some of them have been pretty sloppy, but it
never did quiet down.

So, when it came time to put a new chain on, I decided to go with the HG91. I
took it out for a ride today and it's running quieter, and smoother.  
(Plus, it's silver and looks so much nicer %^)

If I don't have any problems with the HG91, I'll most likely stick with that.
Downside is, the Sedis cost me around $10, the HG91 around $20.

Sue

>    BTW-You didn't describe in what manner the chain was not running
>    smoothly.  Maybe your cogs are worn(?)

No the cogs are fine. It seemed like the chain was too wide to fit on a cog
without rubbing against the adjacent cogs. I didn't keep it on for long lest
it damaged anything.

>        The Sachs-sedisport chain is hyper glide compatible and doesn't
>    have a special link and..seems to be a better chain design.

Does this chain have a number or a more specific name?

Patrick

    I just picked up a Sedis-SL, this is a "hand-made" chain it looks
    slightly different in appearance than the cheaper Sedisports.  Upside
    is you don't need special links, down-side it is expensive.  Racing
    guys at O'neils are very happy with it for STI setups.   
    
    steve

    I replaced the Shimano HG chain with a Sedis ATB chain this spring. 
    The shop said the regular Sedis would work (as did this notesfile), but
    they felt that the ATB chain MIGHT shift a touch more smoothly because
    of the link shape.  So far it has worked great, very quiet, and smooth
    AS LONG AS I KEEP IT WELL LUBED!  When it starts to get cruddy or dry I
    start to hear noise from the running gear.  I particularly like not
    having to find the special little link for breaking the chain, and not
    having to buy replacement pins!

The standard black and silver Sedis chains do not appear strong enough for
the twisting that the hyperglide ramps impose.  I have seen a few Sedis
chains with very twisted links from running on a hyperglide drive train.

The newer Sedis ATB model is advertised as hyperglide compatible with supposedly
stronger and chamfered side plates.  I have had pretty good luck running these
on hyperglide; they don't shift quite as crisp as the HG-* chains, but they
are about half the price and don't require the special pin for reassembly...
	Greg

    Rod, (.1):
    
    I thought the instructions were to break it anywhere but at the special
    black rivet (TM).   Hmm, I seem to have the entire set of instructions
    here in my office except for the one on the chain.  I'll check it at
    home.
    
    ed

>    I thought the instructions were to break it anywhere but at the special
>    black rivet (TM).   Hmm, I seem to have the entire set of instructions
>    here in my office except for the one on the chain.  I'll check it at
>    home.
    
     ed,

     I am pretty sure you are right. I asked some of the mechanics at work a 
     few weeks ago and they say the same thing. They told me that you should
     not remove the black pin because another black pin will not fit back into
     that link. 

     Dave
   

    
    Okay, guys, here are some quotes, including from ed:
    
               <<< GOOFOF::NOTES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BICYCLE.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -<  Bicycling  >-
================================================================================
Note 2165.3                Hyperglide chain questions                    3 of 39
RUTILE::MACFADYEN "handbuilt by perverts"            10 lines  14-JAN-1992 03:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to explain a bit more, Hyperglide chains have a special black,
hardened rivet, and this is supposed to be the one you should use to
break the chain. Moreover, you should replace the rivet with a new one
when you rebuild the chain and Shimano sell replacement rivets for this
purpose.

But you seem to be getting by fine without doing all those things.


Rod
================================================================================
Note 2165.4                Hyperglide chain questions                    4 of 39
NOVA::FISHER "Rdb/VMS Dinosaur"                       6 lines  14-JAN-1992 05:41
               -< Thought I wasn't supposed to reuse that link >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rod,
    
    I thought the instructions said to never reuse that link.  But what do
    I know thay tried to write it in English and I read American.  :-)
    
    ed

    HEY, AT LEAST WE ARE CONSISTENT.
    
    ed

Don't take me as gospel on Hyperglide chains - I don't use them!

But what would be the point of having just one rivet that you *couldn't*
remove and a hundred that you could?


Rod

    after you have replaced the other 99 it's time for a new chain?

    
    Where to break the chain?? Now I'm really confused. Rob Van Der Pas in 
    his book "mountain Bike Maintenance" says to break it ANYWHERE BUT the
    black pin because the black pin is an oversize pin and a new pin won't
    fit there tightly, but in Richards "Ultimate Bicycle Book" he shows a
    hyperglide chain broken at the black pin end and says something to the 
    effect of "take any extra links off the other end of the chain, but
    don't touch this end" which implies that you SHOULD break it at the
    black pin, but just don't remove those links 'cause you'll need them to 
    put it back together. What DOES Shimano say? Anyone know for certain?

    
    This is the type of techno-sophistication that frightens some of us
    back to friction shifting! :-) :-)
    
    Logic suggests it's the "special" link that should be broken: if it's
    ok to break the chain and thus rejoin it at some other point, then that 
    means Shimano could have joined the chain originally at that point (viz.,
    using a regular link and rivet), => the special link would be superfluous
    (contradiction). Q.E.D.
    
    -john (Dr. Logic - "Remember, he's *not* a real doctor!")

    RE:.17
    
    Perhaps that picture is a picture of a new chain, as yet unused so
    that of course, it's open at the black pin and his point is that
    you should not remove the links with the black pin in it since that
    is the one you want to use to close up the chain.
    
    ed

    
    RE: .-1
    
    Yes, makes sense!
    
    -john

    If the "Special" pin scares you then use a DAIDO Super Light (SunTour). 
    It works great, even better than Sedis, in my oppinion.
    
    Dave

    
    If the Shimano chain is such a hassle use something else.  There are so
    many other chains on the market that are Hyperglide compatible in a
    range of prices.
      I personally refuse to use the Shimano chain because of THE pin.  
    
    							Norm
    
    

    
    
    This is frightening!!!  I'll stick with my cheap ole Campy stuff!!
    
    8^)

    
    
>>    This is frightening!!!  I'll stick with my cheap ole Campy stuff!!
        					 ^^^^^
    
    I nearly choked on my coffee. Don't do things like that to me...  :*)
    
    Graham.   

    
    	- The truth according to Shimano ;^) -
    
    Yesterday I received a Shimano chain from Performance (forgot I'd
    ordered it-it was on backorder) and in it it explained the deal with
    the special pins. The chain is shipped open with the pin separate. The
    pin is ONLY supposed ot be used ONCE and then if you break the chain,
    you have to break it somewhere else and use a fresh pin to re-connect
    it. And here's why- The special pin is really 2 pins; one half is just
    a tapered guide to help insert the other half which is mushroomed at
    both ends to fit very tightly in the chainlink. Then you break the
    tapered piece off with a pliers. This special pin slightly enlarged the
    hole you insert it into and that's why they say not to remove it again-
    so the new pin will fit tightly. So you could wind up with lots of
    little black pins in your chain depending on how often you take it off
    to clean it. Extra pins are 3 for $5. 
    	Also - the deal with a "special " chainbreaker is this; you can use
    most chainbreakers, but you CAN'T use a "pliers-type" because I guess
    that kind compresses the side of the links (which are slightly bowed
    out on HG to catch in those little cutouts on the side of the sprockets
    to aid shifting) of it may break the special pin in half before you get
    it all the way inserted. 
    	Hmmm? I guess after you add the cost of a half-dozen pins or so,
    Campy IS the cheaper way to go! :')

    Yep, sounds like you'll now be in the market for a Rohloff chain. :-)
    
    -john

Re .25:  That was more informative than anything I've ever read before about 
Shimano black pins, so thanks.


Rod