Conference noted::bicycle

    memory dump follows, others may be able to come up with different
    numbers.
    
    120 mm is the "old 5 speed standard" though some 6 speed Ultras
    could use it.
    
    126 mm is the "current 6/7 speed standard"
    
    130 mm is what is being used for 8 speed Dura Ace and Campy
    
    128.5 I have never before heard of.
    
    ed

    Ed's numbers are right, and the measurement is from the inside of the
    left dropout to the inside of the right dropout.  Sounds like the
    128.5 is an 8-spd frame that needs to be spread a bit.
    
    Justin

     I know MERLIN offers 126, 128.5, and 130... My guess is that
    a 126 will take a 5-6spd... the 128.5 will do 6-7spd and the
    130 will take the 8spd... P.S. I know for a fact (with a little
    effort) the 128.5 takes the 8spd easily...
    
     The widths are defintely diven by the freewheel/cassette width.
    
     My $.02 (or less)...
    
         Chip

    
    
    
       So 128.5 is around mid-way between 126 and 130mm. I see.
    I have a bike with 126mm width and want to run STI on it is there
    anything that can be done.
    

A steel frame can be "cold-set", that is, permanently bent to the new spacing.
I don't know about the options for other materials.  As Chip noted, it is also
possible to spread the stays (without actually bending them) enough to get
the wheel in.

Barry

     Absotively. My Merlin has a 128.5 spread and had to just nudge it
    a bit to get the 8spd Campy stuff. It is no problem, however. When
    I say it was easy, it is. No wrestling or swearing, just a little
    nudge... I've the bike up to 55mph with no shake... Smooth as silk.
    
      Chip

    
    
    If your 126 spacing stays can be spread to handle the 130 spacing
    8-speed hub without a 'cold set' you'll most likely have to have your
    derailleur hanger re-aligned...
    
    Cold setting the stays normally includes having the hanger done too...
    
    Steve

     No sweat Tom. Feel free to take a shot anytime I provide an
    opening. I failed to mention I was Mt. Wachusett when I
    did this - Going up naturally...
    
     Chip

    True Chip, I finmd it really frustrating having to back off going up a
    hill 'cos I'm at the speed-limit...

I would like to convert my Trek 1400 from 7-speed 105 to 8-speed Ultegra.  The
Trek frame is aluminum and therefore (as far as I know) can not be cold set.

Does anyone know if these frames can spread the 4mm (1/6") or are they too 
stiff?  

Thanks,
Mark

    If it's doing 7spds now, it just might take an 8spd. Do you know the
    width between dropouts? If you have this you'll know for sure...
    
       Chip

    re. .11
    
    If you convert, let me know I may be interested in your leftovers.
    
    ...Ed
    (TREK1400 owner)
    
    

I went down to my local Trek dealer yesterday to talk to them about converting.
The owner, Chris, of Criterium talked me out of it.  He said and I agree that
I'd be better off being patient another year and put the $450 (didn't know it
was that expensive) towards a 5200 when I could afford it.

I did ride a Trek 2300 aluminum lugged Carbon fiber bike with Ultegra STI.  I
had always figured STI, who meeds it?  Well, I do.  :-)  It's really pretty 
slick and only takes minutes to get used to.  He asked me if I wanted to ride
a 5200 and I told him no.  I was afraid to since I am trying to save money for
vacation.  BTW, the 56 cm 5200 weighs in at about 19lbs with STI.

Ed, what kind of leftovers are you looking for?  My parts bin already contains
some Shimano stuff.

Oh ya, the 7-speed Treks can be converted to 8-speed with no problem.

Mark  

    Mark,
    
    I have a 1400 now and like the 105 stuff.  My commuter is running some
    cheaper Shimano index stuff and I figured if you were going to strip 
    your 1400, maybe you'd like to unload the 105 setup cheap.  ;')
    
    ...Ed

    Is there any reason why you couldn't use STI shifters with 105 7-speed
    stuff? The inter-cog spacing is the same, is it not? 
    
    
    Rod

re .16

The 7-speed deraileures have insufficient travel to reach all 8 cogs.

Mark

    Re .17:  No, that's not what I mean.
    
    Say you're running a 7-speed Hyperglide setup, like Ultegra last year
    or 105 still. If the intercog spacing between 7-speed and 8-speed is
    the same, then what's to stop you buying STI shifters? Obviously you'd
    have 7-speeds, not 8, but you could get by on that. 
    
    
    Rod

    I think Justin Crocker described doing something like that in another
    note in here.
    
    ed

	Greetings
	Last year I upgraded my trusty steed to 105 shifting
	However, the shop said that I couldn't use a 7-speed
	cluster and would have to use a 6-speed (with 1 dead
	space in the indexing). This turns out to be a pain
	when climbing hills and under load - it skips sometime.

	The freewheel is Shimano's 6-speed SIS.   

	The rear width is about 123.5 without the wheel (it's
	spread over time by me using a Campy hub with a 6 speed axle)
	When the wheel is in place, the spacing is 126 mm.  The
	low end cog is pretty close to the rear stay.

	My question is: Any ideas why a 7-speed Shimano cluster
	won't fit if it is normally installed on a 126 mm axle?
	Are the ULTRA 7-speed cluster narrower than the Shimano
	(at the loss of using indexing)?

	The frame is a Reynolds 531 frame so I don't have much fear
	of having it cold set to 126 mm but it doesn't seem to make
	sense to cold set it to 126 when it's 126 with the wheel in
	place (ignoring the fact of deraillear alignment). I'm not so
	sure about pushing it to 130 though.  I've talked to 3 shops,
	one of which has a frame builder, all said 126 -no problem.
	130 - varying degrees of confidence
		1.- No problem. Sounded a little to confident
		2.- Frame builder -Yeah it can be done. He didn't
			give me a nice warm fuzzy in his tone 8^)
		3.- He'd do it but if it breaks, he's not responsible

    
    I've been trying the same thing with my 6 speed Cannondale. 
    do a "dir/title=7" and you will find a note entitled 
    "7 speed bites chain stay" or something like that. They suggested
    putting in a spacer and (possibly) redish the wheel. 
    I have put a 7 speed cluster on my bike (I want to use some 
    7 speed bar end shifters), and the chain runs REALLY close to 
    the chain stay (like 1/8" to 3/16"). I haven't tried it yet, 
    but I should be able to rid this weekend.  Since it doesn't actually
    touch the chain stay, I'm going to try it as is. If my chain
    actually rubs the chainstay/dropout, I'll try the spacer (and 
    possibly redish the wheel) idea. Please reply with whatever
    you end up doing. I think (SWAG) that the "problem" is related to the 
    hub/cone/spacer/locknut length on the axle... or their positioning
    on the axle. Perhaps some more enlightened bicycle mechanic could
    explain? In any case, what type of clearence should I have between
    the chain and the chainstay when the chain is on the small gear
    
    
    doug
    
    BTW: It looks like all of the bike shops and mail order outlets
    are no longer carrying 6 speed bar end shifters. Local bike shops
    can order them, but (once again) my  5 year old equipment is 
    "obsolete".

Re .20:  If you can fit a 126mm axle into your frame, I don't see why you
can't have 7-speed. 7-speed is pretty well standard for 126mm these days.
As to your chain skipping under load, that may not have anything to do with
the frame's rear width. I'd check that your indexing is set up correctly.
Why do you want to go to 130mm - do you want 8-speed? (Why not, it's a free
country!)

Re .21:  My opinion is that the correct distance from chain to frame is
anything greater than zero. If it isn't touching, why worry?



Rod

    
    
    When I converted my old R.E.W. Reynolds (also 531) to seven speed this
    is what happened:
    
    - when my shiney new wheels came in I just shoved them in...and the
    rear stays did flex enough to accept them.  BUT I did get a fair amount
    of chain skip...due to rear dropout allignment.
    
    - had the stays cold set (not much of an issue considering the wheels
    fit before...and had the dropout realligned...and haven't had a problem
    since...so I have my vintage 70's Nuovo Record shifting nicely with
    MAVIC hubs and a 7-speed Maillard freewheel...
    
    -Steve