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Conference noted::bicycle

Title: Bicycling
Notice:Bicycling for Fun
Moderator:JAMIN::WASSER
Created:Mon Apr 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3214
Total number of notes:31946

2124.0. "Building a Lightweight Clincher Wheel" by SHALOT::ELLIS (John Lee Ellis - assembly required) Mon Nov 11 1991 14:52

    
    I'm about to build some lightweight clincher wheels.  
    The local bike shop (which is quite reputable) has suggested
    American Classic hubs and Argentinian rims (forgot the brand -
    they're silvery and aero).  This would be 28-spoke, non radial,
    probably round or oval spokes.
    
    Priorities: I want Light but not Flimsy.  This is for longer distances,
    not a time trial.
    
    Any advice out there on these or other components?
    
    -john
    
    FYI, the one actual mechanical failure I had on RAAM was to
    tear a spoke out of an American Classic flange going over a bump
    (well, ok, a crevice).  
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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2124.1Mavic O4CD and Dura-AceTEMPE::HUFFAKERMon Nov 11 1991 15:107
    Mavic O4CD are great rims and strong and somewhat aero.  The ceramic 
    coated ones seem a real overkill (and a lot of $$) for something I
    believe is a minor (brake marks on rim) rather than a major problem.
    Since I am a Dura-Ace kind of guy I cant think of any other hubs
    that I would use.
    
    Mike
2124.2AC'S GOOD...WMOIS::GIROUARD_CMon Nov 11 1991 17:5111
     I run an American Classic hub on my TT machine. It is unbelievably
    smooth and friction-free. They have a rep for a short life, but I
    know a guy who's been running them for training and racing and they're
    doing fine (cartidges anyway so they just require replacement).
    
     Rims are another story. I'm sure if you want lightweight stuff you'll
    go with throw-ups... Ooops, I mean sew-ups..
    
      Good Luck...
    
                  Chip
2124.3I like Campy rimsAD::CRANEI'd rather be on my bicycle!Mon Nov 11 1991 18:1622
    
    
      I seem to be rather tough on wheels.  Particularly rear ones.
    
    I've had MA-40s last about 5000 miles (developed flat spot then started
    					   breaking spokes)
    
    I've had Wheelsmith Saturae(36sp) rims last about 4000 miles.
    					   (Killed in crash)
    
    Then there were this years O4CD(32sp) rear wheel that went beyond repair
    after about 2000 miles of never being very reliable.
    					(I think this was a bad building job)
    
    I don't think that any of thise rims was particularly good but I am
    very impressed with the 32sp Campy Record Stada rims that I am riding
    on now.  I've had them for 3 years and until know used them exclusively
    for racing but recently started training on them as well. These are
    very fast very light(350 grams) tubular rims.
    
    John C.
    
2124.4thanksSHALOT::ELLISJohn Lee Ellis - assembly requiredWed Nov 13 1991 09:4910
    
    I will look into the Campy Strada rims, and the other suggestions
    (for which, thanks).  BTW, I do have a nice pair of tubular wheels
    now -- this morning I looked at the rims: they are Mavic and say
    Monthlery Legere on them.  (The hubs are 28 hole high-flange Record.)
    
    At some point I'm tempted to get the Mavic ceramic rims, but not
    for performance, just braking.
    
    -john
2124.5spokesUSMRM4::MREIDWed Nov 13 1991 19:4310
    Spokes: Wheelsmith Oval spokes are lightweight, very aero (sharp edge),
            & no slotting necessary.  I've have them on my clincher
    	    training wheels (Mavic Open 4-CD rims, D/A hubs); trained 2 years 
            (9000 mi), hard riding on rough New England roads with no 
            wheelsmith oval spoke breakage front or rear. Check 'em out ... 
    	    light, durable, aero .... best around.  I also have a very good
    	    wheelbuilder & that helps...
    
    Regards,
    Mark
2124.6How many spokes do you really need?JURA::MACFADYENunder new managementTue Dec 06 1994 09:1741
       <<< MOVIES::DISK$SYSDATA:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EURO_RANDONNEUR.NOTE;2 >>>
                              -< Alpine cycling >-
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Note 88.9                New-fangled toys & maintenance                  9 of 10
JURA::LETCHER "If not for good; if not for better"   10 lines   6-DEC-1994 10:15
                              -< Spokey or what? >-
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    Having chatted with Rod over the last few days about various aspects of
    bike building, and in particular wheel building, my question to the
    panel is, given how much better materials are these days than they were
    in around 1920 when they were also using 32 and 36 spoked wheels, why do
    wheels still have so many spokes in them? Is it just a legacy from the
    days of wooden rims and hobby horse bikes, or is it really essential,
    even today?
    
    Piers
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Note 88.10               New-fangled toys & maintenance                 10 of 10
JURA::MACFADYEN "under new management"               19 lines   6-DEC-1994 10:29
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    Could be worth asking this in Bicycle notes since so few people seem to
    read this file at the moment.
    
    FWIW, I think that the use of 32/36 spokes nowadays is largely down to
    tradition. I don't believe that it is strictly an engineering decision.
    The problem for me is that I don't know where the real limits are. I
    note that the type of aero wheel with a deep rim which has become
    prevalent in the past year or two, such as Campag Shamal and its
    variants, have from 12 to 20 spokes. They do strike me as wheels that
    have been designed by engineers, so there's a clue. On the other hand,
    those deep rims must be very strong so it would be unwise to assume
    that a more conventional rim could also get away with so few spokes.
    
    At the moment I'd risk building a 28-spoke wheel for general riding. In
    any case, that's the lowest spoke number you can get for conventional
    rims.
    
    
    Rod
    
2124.7WRKSYS::ROTHGeometry is the real life!Tue Dec 06 1994 14:3115
   It's a good question.

   I believe Jobst Brandt discusses this issue in his treatise on
   the bicycle wheel, my copy is not at hand at the moment.

   At any rate, I can ask the question in the bicycling internet
   news group (it may even be in the FAQ.)

   I don't think it is strictly tradition since there are issues with
   the crossing pattern of the spokeks and the diameter of the hub
   flange and so on.  But there are wheels for tandems and such with
   more than the traditional 32 or 36 spokes (I think 40 is a possible
   number.)

   - Jim