Conference noted::bicycle

    Since you said it would be infrequent that you would load up the
    bike with camping gear, I'd look into modifying you mountain
    bike for the job. Wheels and a bar should do the trick. Take the
    rest and get a racing bike.
    
    John

    re:-1
    Would the frame size be a problems though? My fit for a road bike is
    21" as opposed to 18" for the MTB. How quickly can this transfer be
    done, with a longer stem for the road, wouldn't I need extra cable?
    
    Shaw

    RE .2
    I guess it depends. How far would you tour? On a very long tour, you
    might not be as comfortable as would be on a bike made specifically
    for touring, but that has to be weighed with how often you need this
    capability.
    As far as cables, etc, you may not need to change anything. There
    are bars available that put you in a more stretched out position.
    These either clip on, or are used in place of standards mtn bars.
    The shifter and brake positions are the same.
    If you want to change brake and shifter positions, I've also seen
    a cable connector which allows for fast bar swaps. Course now
    where talking more components. What it comes down to is how often
    you will be doing each type of riding.
    
    John

    
    I ride my mountain bike, atleast three days a week. On weekends, I
    spend quite a few hours riding. I expect to be riding a 4-5 hours
    on weekends with the road bike. I find it is always a lot easier 
    if I had a road bike just to jump on it and go as oposed to racking
    the bike up on the car and go in search of trails. The more I think
    about it, I would realy prefer to have two bikes ready to go. 
    I have found that a lot of times, if there is too much preparation 
    involved just to get ready for a ride, I won't do it as often. 
    
    Shaw

Shaw,

    I'm also looking for an entry level racing bike which would also hold
    up to a few touring rides loaded with some extra gear.  Actually, I'm
    still fighting with myself here, because I've never done touring before
    and I don't really plan on it in the near future, so I've been leaning
    towards a pure racer.  But, the practical side of me says I'm no Greg
    Lemond and don't really plan to be, so get a more comfortable,
    versatile bike which can be competetive in a citizens race, but will
    also be comfortable enough to tour on in my later years.

    A friend of mine was in the same boat as me and ended up buying a
    Miyata 721A.  Miyata bills this as their hybrid touring/racing bike.
    It fits within your price range (I think around $600, maybe a little
    less) and he got it at Buchika's on Rt. 28 in Salem, NH.

    It has all of the braze-ons for racks and panniers and has a triple
    crankset which would come in handy while trying to climb a long hill
    while fully loaded.  The frame is aluminum and comes equipped with good
    Shimano components - SIS, hyperglide, superglide, and SLR brakes.
    If you look at it quickly you would say it was a racer.

    He decided on racing gearing for the freewheel, knowing that he has the
    extra granny-ring in case he gets into trouble.  He is very happy with
    the bike.  I'm going to test ride it this summer if the practical side
    of me wins out.

    Hope this helps.

    -Buddy

    re .5
    I'm not saying don't buy 2 bikes. Rather, determine if you'll be tour
    riding moreso than unloaded riding. If you'll be riding with lots of
    gear a few times a year, I'd modify the ATB for those occasions, and
    just ride a racing/sport bike the rest of the time. I wouldn't buy a
    tourer which would only serve it's purpose once in a while, but
    wouldn't do the job as well when you want to step on it...
    
    John

    I've been a 'tourist' for three years now and can attest to the comfort
    and durability of a good quality touring bike. I've got 15,000+ miles
    on my Shogun Alpine GT with no complaints (other than the occasional
    saddle sore ;->)
    
    If you're near the coast, try New England Outdoor Sports in
    Newburyport. They're in the Port Plaza shopping center (the one with
    the Shaw's supermarket) just off Route 95. They have a really nice
    looking loaded touring bike on display that I've been drooling over for
    a while. (mention my name if you go in - it's always good for a laugh.)
    
    	/Harry
    

    
    Well, for one thing, it's true, you really ought to take some
    samples out for a spin, to see what people are talking about.
    If you can, try a true touring bike, a crit bike (American style
    racing bike), and a road racing bike (European racing bike),
    and try the following:
    
    	- cornering,
    	- climbing,
    	- sprints on the flats.
    
    It's going to be hard to choose between them if you are comparing
    them only against your mountain bike and not against each other.
    
    A friend owns a mountain bike (Specialized), touring bike (Cannondale
    ST-1000), and at least one racer (a Brian Rourke).  He is an
    accomplished cyclist on all three (e.g., he did Mt. Mitchell in 5:20).
    That's one way to go, I guess.
    
    I have several bikes, all more or less classic road bikes, at
    least so far.  One year ago, I took one of these classic racing
    frames to Japan, moderately loaded (panniers, handlebar pack),
    and it performed beautifully.  So it can be done.
    
    Good luck!
    -john

    You shouldn't have to worry about whether a racing bike is "strong
    enough" for moderate touring.  I think my crit bike could haul an
    Airstream trailer, if I had the legs to pull it.  The main problem
    is mounting racks and such, but there are ways around that.

    
    Traditionally, touring bikes are the station wagons of two-wheelers.
    They're kind of long in the frame, which may contribute to flex under
    sudden acceleration.  They're kind of a specialized breed, and a 
    dwindling one- not many manufacturers offer true classic touring
    bikes anymore.
    
    There's one that I can think of that may fit your needs- a classic
    design, yet surprisingly stiff and nimble.  The Cannondale ST600 is
    in your price range (about $700), and comes with a rear rack and
    bar-end twist grips for shifting.  Climbs like a dream, yet offers
    a stiff ride.  Fun around town as a general sport bike without
    being loaded down.
    
    Editorial- this is one area where aluminum really shines- in long 
    frames that remain stiff.  Cannondale started out making only touring
    bikes, yet now remain one of the few who still do-- and that's a
    small part of their business.
    
    If you're interested, see if you can ride one now, and be prepared to
    make a decision quickly.  They only manufacture them maybe two months 
    out of the year, and they're quickly gobbled up.  I ordered mine in
    October, and just picked up my '91, fresh off the assembly line, a
    few weeks ago.
    
    	Dave

re .0:

>    preformance would I sacrifies with a touring bike. Is there any that
>    is sort of in between. My local shop has a Fuji Serota, that has 

i am not familiar with the Serota but there are many "in between" and that's 
what i would suggest.  i believe you will find a "real" touring bike a little 
heavy and long for fun, rather fast, rides.  on the other hand a racing bike 
will be too short and "jumpy" for putting any amount of gear on.

i'm happy with mine as it is light and quick enough for my rides of 25 to 50
miles with two water bottles for gear.  i also ride to work with panniers on 
the rear and if it was any shorter my feet would hit them!

craig

    Hi Shaw,
    
    How did the F4 wax work out? I guess it is the change of season and you
    are in the hunt for the 2nd Bike. The Myiata 721 is a good choice as
    one of the earlier replye mentioned. Another one we sell is the
    Bridgestone RB-T. Bothe of these bikes are short wheel base geometry
    but comes with the granny and a long cage Rear deraillure for touring.  
    
    Just go try out a few and you will know which bike you want to
    purchase. 
    
    Good Luck
    
    uey

    
    RE: .12
    
>>                      i believe you will find a "real" touring bike a little 
>>heavy and long for fun, rather fast, rides.  
    
          I'll second that. My Miyata 600GT, another true tourer, is
       great for the leisurely Sunday (and extended?) rides, but you
       can't really go out and "hammer" on it ('course the motor could
       use some work). That's why I'm looking for a "go-fast" frame to
       hang all my spare components on. Besides, I have some empty space
       in the kitchen, next to the Miyata and between the Apollo work-
       station and the floor loom.  8^)
    
                                                        Steve
       
       

RE -.1:
    
>    Traditionally, touring bikes are the station wagons of two-wheelers.
    
    HEY!!!!!  Unkind!  They may not be Porsches, but my ST600 doesn't feel
    like a station wagon! Maybe a sport sedan :^)
    
>    in your price range (about $700), and comes with a rear rack and
>    bar-end twist grips for shifting.  Climbs like a dream, yet offers
    
    Your ST600 is a '91?  It came with the bar end shifters?  I got a '90
    which I like a lot, but it came with the standard shifters...  I
    thought the only one that had the bar end shifters was the ST1000...
    
>    a stiff ride.  Fun around town as a general sport bike without
>    being loaded down.
    
    True...  Very nice around town - BUT, it is stiff.  With my weight, the
    bike is ALWAYS loaded, but a lighter person could find it harsh.
    
    BTW:  As far as frame length - from my recollection when studying
    different bikes - in the 25" frame, the ST600 is 3.5 inches longer than
    my TREK 660, or the Miyata 721A.  Of this, about 2.25 inches in in the
    chainstays.  

    Touring bikes have an undeserved reputation for being slow. A good
    touring bike, unloaded with, say, 28mm tyres, is only marginally slower
    to ride than a racing bike. It *feels* slower because of the more
    stable handling, but there's only a few % in it.
    
    
    Rod

    re: .15
    
    Yep, mine is a '91.  It's the second Cannondale touring bike I've
    owned- the first I bought new in '83, an ST500.  Much as I loved
    the first one, the ST600 seems even more responsive.  They do come
    with the bar-ends and a rack now, but only in a boring blue.
    
    Last weekend I took it out for a few miles, and then took my mountain
    bike over the same paved route.  Mountain bikes are great for what
    they're made for, but what a difference.
    
    	Dave
    

         Re: .16


         Boy it has been a looong time since I have contributed to
         this file....


         I have to agree with the comments about the "undeserved"
         reputations of touring bikes.

         I have a FUJI Saratoga which is a loaded tourer. It ways in
         at 25 pounds. Not a light bike, but it rides very well. I
         have no complaints and really don't find it to be slow.


         I have to smile a little when I read or hear about the
         supposed tank-like qualities of tourers in sales speeches
         in stores or mags. etc. In almost the same breath these
         same people will give us a similarly heart-felt speech
         about the wonders of hybrids. 

         I may be off base here, but if you want to discuss
         tank-like qualities...... :-)
         I only say this because I personally doubt that many
         Hybrids are actually taken off the pavement.

         Ain't Marketing Great?


         JC