Conference noted::bicycle

    Just out of curiosity, what's the weight diff between a 970 and 8000?
    

    re: .0
    
    If price isn't a factor, go titanium...
    
    Eric

    Give Lincoln Trail Guides, in Lincoln MA a call. They rent out TREKs,
    the 900 series, and they sell the Al models. They may rent them out,
    I'm not sure. At any rate, they are pretty cool about things, and may
    let you take one of each out. I've rented a high-end Panasonic from
    them before. (When I was out in San Fran, I was able to rent a $1500
    Fischer Mt. Tam, and my buddy got a McMahon titanium! You never know
    what people will let you take out!)
    
    Ride them both- I'd be surprised if you felt a major difference in
    stiffness. Weight difference might be noticeable, but I don't think
    you would feel any other difference.
    
    Always ride before you buy!
    
    Ed

    It's Lincoln  Guide  Service,  near  the Lincoln railroad station.
    Their number is 617 259 9204

--David

    
    	re: .1
    	Trek told me the aluminum bike was 2 pounds lighter than the
    	chromoly one, for a 56cm (22in) frame.
    
    	re: .2
    	Eric, price isn't a factor between the aluminum and chromoly
    	one, but, much to my dismay, the $ difference to obtain a
    	titanium bike is ecomonically unfeasible for me.  Boo Hoo!
    
    	re: .3
    	Ed, that Lincoln Guide Service bike rental sounds like an
    	excellent plan for me.  I'll try and check it out, because
    	my main concern is frame stiffness/flexibility/shock-
    	absorption characteristics.
    
    	re: .4
    	David, thanks for the phone number (for .3).
    

    Howdy,
    
    Well, there hasn't been much discussion around the Aluminum vs.
    Steel frame for a while, so I thought I'd reopen it.  I'm in the
    market for a new MTB and have quite a bit of looking, and I'm 
    narrowing down my choices, but still have a couple of questions.
    
    I'm a recreational rider (currently riding a Trek hybrid on the
    streets and light trails).  I'm not exactly a lightweight (220 lbs),
    but in decent riding shape.  I do not plan to get into racing, but
    would like to head off road for some more serious riding (I'm 
    pretty sure the old trek 830 wouldn't hold up too long for very
    long !!).
    
    As for bikes, I haven't got too many requirements, but a few.  First
    the bike must be relatively sturdy given the aforementioned weight.
    I would like at least the New DEORE LX componentry.  At this time,
    I'm not going to invest in a front suspension, although it could
    be an option in the future (I realize that the add on shock may end
    up costing more that if original).  As for price, I'd like to spend
    between $700-$1000, on lower side if possible.
    
    So far, I've looked at the following:
               
    Trek 950   (This seemed like a nice bike at the right price.
    		New DEORE LX all around, DX rear derailleur, steel)
    
    Trek 7000  (Same price, Aluminum, Altus componentry, Is the 8000 
    	        the same frame with DEORE??)
    
    Bridgestone (DEORE LX, Steel, Dealer was concerned about frame
    MB3, MB2     strength)
    
    Cannondale  (New DEORE LX, Aluminum, more $$ than the Treks)
    M700, M800 
    
    Specialized (Steel, various componentry, looked at Rockhoppers thru
    Many models  Stumpjumper M-2).
    
    
    I'm waiting for the weather to improve so I cane ride some or all
    of the models mentioned above.  Basically I have the following
    questions:
    
    1)  The old Aluminum/Chromoly debate.  Would the aluminum frame be
    	suitable for a rider my size, given some of the problems I've
        seen described here??  The extra pound or two that the steel
        frame might weigh is not that important to me, where durability
    	is.
    
    2)  I would definitely prefer top mount indexed shifters, over the
    	Rapidfire or Rapidfire plus shifters.  I know they are not as
    	convenient, but I feel that the simplicity of the design, the
    	fact that they are not integrated with the brakeset, and the ability
    	to operate in indexed and friction mode are big pluses.   Seeing
    	many (most?) of the new MTBs are outfitted with Rapidfire 
    	shifters, I asked two different dealers about swapping them to
    	top mounted shifters.  One basically said it was too much work/
    	expense, and the other said no problem and no extra charge.
    	Which is the norm??
    
    Any other general comments/recommendations etc would be greatly
    appreciated.
    
    Thanks alot!!  
    Gus  
    (Shopping for a bike is pretty interesting and educational, but
     I'm ready to get riding !!!)
    
    
    P.S.  I live on the North Shore, in Ma., and work in Tewksbury Ma.
    	  so the dealers I've been to are in this general area.
    
    
                                 

When I purchase anything Dealer Service will always over ride price.  If the
one dealer will not outfit the bike the way you want go some where else.
There is always a chance that an additional charge maybe required but if the
dealer won't even consider the option... Good Bye I'll take my $700+ to someone
that cares.

My $.01 worth
Tom

Hi,

Chelmsford Cyclery has the following 1993 Trek bikes at an excellent price:

Trek 850 - Deore LX $600
Trek 8300 - Carbon fiber frame with Suntour Components $800
Trek 8700 - Same as 8300 but with Deore DX and XT derailleurs $900

The 8300 and 8700 weighs in at 24 lbs!!

The number is 508.256.1528 - ask for Martin & mention my names for these 
prices.

Eric

    re .6
    I'm pretty sure you've got to be the first human to prefer top
    mounted over RapidFirePlus, but to each their own.  If I were
    a bike shop, tho, I'd gladly replace them with cheaper topmounts
    for a customer.

    
    re .9  NOT!   Bridgestone specs all their Mtn bikes with the top
    mounted shifters for some of the reasons stated by the noter.
    I also use top mounted shifter and my next bike will probably 
    have them, too.
    
    Different strokes.......
    
    Jim

    Hey who said I was human !!!  ;^)
    
    The reasons I like the top mount shifters are stated in my orignal
    note, in addition to the fact that my current bike has the top mounts.  
    I've seen several people have problems with the Rapidfire shifters 
    where the indexing has gone south.  
    
    The bridgestones have the top mounts as does the Cannondale M700
    I looked at.  I wasn't going to mention the dealer names, but
    Chelmsford Cyclery is the shop that said "No problem" on the
    shifter swap.  They also had very good prices on the Treks I
    looked at.  For Example, the Trek 950 or 7000 was ~$679 which
    I felt was a good price.  
    
    	While at Burlington Cycle loft, the salesperson
    said that the swapping of the shifters was a hassle,
    and overall Burlington seemed more expensive.   For example,
    the Cannondale M700 was $839 and the Bridgestone MB3 was $700+.
    I didn't compare the Trek prices, because they were all outfitted
    with the rapidfire shifters.
    
    	I'm still looking for a local Specialized dealer.  I looked at 
    most of the Specialized at a shop in N. Conway, and really liked
    them, but again they seemed a little pricey compared to the Treks
    with similar components.  I did spend quite a bit of time drooling
    all over the Stumpjumper Comp M-2, for a cool $999 though!!!
    
    	Semi-human....
    
    Gus
    
    P.S.  FWIW one of the other salespeople at Chelmsford Cyclery 
    	  indicated that Shimano was going to discontinue offering
    	  the topmount shifters next year, but he assumed that parts
    	  would be readily available.
    
    
    
     
    
    

 Specilaize Dealers,

 Try Salem NH - Buchikas - Route 28 south of the Rockingham Mall.
     Nashua NH - Goodales - Downtown
     Nashua NH - Tony's - Route 101A

  you will save 5% on sales taxes.

Dave 


    
    
     
    
    

    Just as an update, I just laid down the cash for the Trek 950
    from Chelmsford Cyclery.
    
    I went to several other shops look at each of the brands I was
    interested, and each time I kept thinking about how well I was
    treated at Chelmsford.  Not one other shop seemed interested 
    in switching the shifters, and each time tried to sell me a
    Bridgestone or Cannondale already outfitted.
    
    Today I went over tho Chelmsford and talked to Martin (the owner, 
    last trip over I spoke with John) and I felt comfortable doing
    so.   I also found out that he and a couple of the other shop 
    employees ride the Trek 950 and love them.
    
    The specifics:
    
    	1993 Trek 950, Steal frame
    	     Shimano New Deore LX components all around
    	     Deore Top mount shifters (replacing the rapidfire plus)
    	     Deore XT Brake Levers    (replacing the rapidfire plus)
    	     Free  30 day and 90 tuneups
    
    	     Price: 679.00 (+ $10.00 for LX to XT brake lever upgrade)
    
    Martin also asked me when I needed (wanted) to pick up the bike, 
    and said he could have it built by the weekend, but I told him
    that anytime next week would be fine.  He was very appreciative
    that I said next week was fine, as the shop is EXTREMELY busy 
    with double shifts and weekends the norm.
    
    I would HIGHLY recommend the Chelmsford Cyclery.  I have nothing
    but good things to say about all of the people I talked to.  And
    a feel their prices are reasonable.
    
    Thanks for everyone's input as well.  Now, let's get some of that
    great riding weather coming !!!
    
    Gus                            
        
    
    

RE: <<< Note 1895.13 by BUOVAX::SURRETTE >>>
    
>    I would HIGHLY recommend the Chelmsford Cyclery.  I have nothing
>    but good things to say about all of the people I talked to.  And
>    a feel their prices are reasonable.

Ditto from me to all of the above.
						-- Tom

    Hi,
    
    Well - noone actually seems to be discussing aluminum vs. chrome-moly
    frames here. So let me ask. I am looking at the Cannondale H600 and H400
    cross-training/hybrid bicycles. I'm interested in C-dales mostly because 
    of the geometry and the quality of the frame construction and finish. 
    I particularly want the more upright sitting position. 
    
    On the other hand - I've heard a couple of things about aluminum frames
    that concern me. First, that they damage easily and are very tough if not 
    impossible to repair. Second, that they don't have much give (re:
    they're too stiff for long-distance rides). I've heard that a
    chrome-moly frame will provide a softer, more absorbent ride, particularly
    effective for distance touring.
       
    Slightly off the subject, the other comment I've heard
    about the two bikes I'm looking at is that the C-dale frame is fairly
    expensive (about $400) and that the components on these two models
    are not of very good quality. I confess I am inexperienced here - so 
    any input will help.
    
    Just so you know - I will generally use the bike for 25-50 mile
    rides (paved roads) - but I may want to push beyond this on occassion.
    
    In general I'm looking for that really comfortable, somewhat
    upright geometry, light-weight, stable, reasonably good quality 
    components, and 
    quality finish and construction (18"/42cm). So far the C-dale is the only
    thing that feels comfortable. I went for a test spin on the H800
    - it was heavenly - but this is more than I want to spend.
    
    Any info anyone can offer on aluminum vs, chrome-moly will help alot.
    Other comments on componentry and other brands to look at as
    well are also more than welcome.
    
    Thanks much in advance.
    Wendy

    Hi,
    
    	I think (?) what most folks mean when they say that aluminum is
    harder/impossible to repair, they are referring to the case where you
    crash badly enough to knock your frame out of true (bend one or several
    of the tubes).  The idea is that aluminum snaps sooner than steel.  I'm
    not sure how true this is or how much abuse you plan on giving the
    bike.  BTW, which chromo frames have you looked at?
    
    -jesse

    "not comfortable for long distance rides"?  I have a Trek 2000 aluminum
    that I used for many centuries, a few doubles, a couple of RAAM Open's,
    a BMB.  It's fine.  It was damaged twice, bent the fork, bought a new
    one.  Bent the deraileur hanger had it bent back.  Yeah, if I bent the
    frame, it'd be scrap but it's down to well under a dime a mile by now,
    so it wouldn't be like it owed me lots and lots more miles.
    
    Though I do expect to get another 50K out of it. :-)
    
    ed

    re .0
    
    I just bought (ordered) the H400 at Tony's in Nashua.  I had the same 
    questions you had about aluminum, and after talking at a few bike shops, 
    I was convinced that buying aluminum was not a risk.  The 18" is a good fit
    for me, and I'm real happy about my decision.  
    
    I also rode a Mongoose and Trek before I made my decision.  I didn't
    like the fit of the Trek, but I was very pleased with the feel of the
    Mongoose. 
    
    The H400 had to be ordered from the factory.  I tried 3 or 4 different 
    shops, and nobody had one in stock.  Tony's in Nashua was also $30 
    cheaper than the next lowest price.  I was lucky, the factory had them
    in stock so it is only a one week wait.  If none are available at the
    factory, it is a three week wait.
    
    Peter Lellos
    

    
    Since we are talking mountain bikes here, I guess it all depends on 
    your usage and type of riding. If you occassionaly go offroad and 
    do not ride fast (ie, downhill of 30+ mp) then it is just a matter 
    of choice. 
    However, as often as I ride , and I ride hard do not think twice
    about taking jumps and treat my bike like I would my skis, I do not
    think that an Aluminum frame would last as long. Considering how often
    the bike is dropped/flown over rocks and ended up 10' or so down a ditch
    and so on. 
    I 've been riding on a Mongoose IBOC PRO and aside from chipping the
    paint, it has sorvived very well with all the abuse. 
    
    Shaw

      Here's another instance where an Aluminum frame may not holdup.  If the
    frame is bent where the rear derailleur attaches, Aluminum will only 
    allow realignment 2 or 3 times, says a local bike shop.
    
      I bent my Chromoly frame in exactly this way. I tried to pedal
    through mud/clay to the point that the wheels became covered and they
    would not turn anymore.  The force of the chain pulled on the rear 
    derailleur and, as designed, the frame took the force and bent, leaving
    the tension wheel on the derailleur feeding the chain back to the chain
    ring at a crazy angle.
    
      Many frames do not have a separate plate that bolts the derailleur to
    the frame so an Aluminum frame is not good for trail abuse such as this.
    Of course, your choice in frame material depends on your expectations 
    around bike life...

    I wouldn't trust 1 aluminum frame alignment. There is no way a 
    shop can tell how much of the integrity is compromised unless 
    they "flux" it. Even then, it might not help to evaluate the
    integrity of the metal.
    
    The only practical way is to put your butt on the line and see if it
    performs.
    
    Chip