Conference noted::bicycle

    
    Could have been "Breaking Away".

    Definitely "Breaking Away".  Set in Indiana.  The Mariage of Figaro
    will always have a different meaning to me...ride fast!!
    
    Ciao,
    
    Eric

    	I think the funniest part of the movie is the relationship
    	between the main character and his father. Dad has a hard
    	time understanding his son in the bathroom shaving his legs
    	(and doing other "strange" things).
    
    	Scott

    	Yupper, Breaking Away.
    
    	The idea of drafting a semi at 70 mph seems just a bit
    	far-fetched to me.
    
    	I mean, anyone spinning a 52x13 gear, would run WELL out of
    	gear by the time they hit 50, let alone CONTROL. Even if he WAS
    	drafting behind a tractor-trailer, there is NO way that the
    	mere suction created by the trailer would've dragged him up
    	to 70 mph. And they showed him pedaling at that speed. Sure...
    
    	But I guess that's the perogative of the movie makers.
    	"Writer's embelishment" would best describe that scene...
    
    	There's another american racing movie you should check out -
    	"American Flyers". Not as much of a cult-classic as Breaking Away
    	though.

    
    Yes, it does sound like cinematic license.
    
    For comparison: Michael Secrest set a new 24-hour paced record
    this spring by drafting a semi-trailer around a track.  He had
    very high gearing, and cruised at 55mph, I believe... he occasionally
    had to slow down because the truck had to stop for maintenance, and
    they brought in a van.  The truck also had a bumper-roller in the
    back as a safety measure,  of course.
    
    He broke 1000 miles in the 24 hours.  Sorry, I can't find the
    exact statistic.  Yokohama ed probably knows it.
    
    -john

    In December's issue of Bicycle Guide:
    
    ...Secrest also set a 24-hour paced record of 1216.7 miles last April
    behind a semi-trailer at Phoenix International Speedway.  He used a
    93/13 gear ration!!
    
    Eric

    Ever notice that as the main character is winding it up to
    warp speed behind the semi ... he shifts from his big to his SMALL
    chainring as he nears about 50mph !!! That's spinning!
    
    Mark

    I'm not a racer, but I also noticed that when, in the race scenes he
    moves to the front, _nobody_ attempts to jump on his wheel...  An 
    interesting story, but technically not really well done (imho)...

    
    re .4:
    
    As I remember the movie, he was drafting at 60 mph, not 70 mph.
    That's when the trooper pulled the trucker over - at 60.
    
    What a great movie!  It appeared the year I graduated from high
    school.
    

    Unless my math is wrong, a 52/12 ratio with 27" wheels requires
    172 rpm to go 60 mph.  A pro sprinter can hit 300 rpm and a good
    recreational rider can usually do 200 rpm.  60 mph drafting a 
    trailer truck is very reasonable.  I've hit close to 50 mph in
    downhill sprints, on a bike with a 46/13 high gear.
    
    Ken
    

     Hmmm. I don't have cadence on my machine, but I've hit 53+ coming
    down Mt. Wachusett in my 53x12 and I was in puree speed! Maybe my
    legs just felt like a La Machine...
    
     Chip

    
    	I am probably imagining things but I thought that the speed
    record on a bike was 90 mph. (I want to say 130 mph but that sounds
    really far out) The problem is overcoming air resistance isn't it?
    I think it is in Ripley's but I haven't checked it out.
    	Roger

> The problem is overcoming air resistance isn't it?

    It depends.  Some are more a matter of keeping control.

    The 150 mph record is with a specially designed wind break
    to ride behind.  The 1300 miles in 24 hours was with a semi.

    The self propelled bicycle speed record is in the 65mph range.

    Unfaired bikes have rocords that are in the 30's (I think).

>>     Hmmm. I don't have cadence on my machine, but I've hit 53+ coming
>>    down Mt. Wachusett in my 53x12 and I was in puree speed! **Maybe my
>>    legs just >felt< like a La Machine***
   
Gee Chip, maybe the ride up was too much for them.  *<|8-)

OR, maybe next time you should try taking the road down.

T


  

re      <<< Note 1785.14 by NEMAIL::DELORIEA "Resurrect the DEC Bike Club" >>>

	Yeah, let's resurrect the dec bike club.

>>>     Hmmm. I don't have cadence on my machine, but I've hit 53+ coming
>>>    down Mt. Wachusett in my 53x12 and I was in puree speed! **Maybe my
>>>    legs just >felt< like a La Machine***

	I think the formula is something like:

	RPM x gear inches /336  = MPH

	{so a 100 inch gear and 100 RPM comes out to about 30 MPH.}

	Just what you need to occupy the brain while beating the body 
		(-:   (-:

	Reg

     Gee Tom, you mean we're talking going d-o-w-n hill, ohhhh.
    I'll give it a shot. :-)
    
     Chip

Reg ,

I was unaware that people that ride single speed bikes could figure gear inches

:>)

        <<< Note 1785.18 by ULTRA::BURGESS "Mad man across the water" >>>
                       -< Stretch a chain for charity. >-

re                     <<< Note 1785.17 by UKAOS::OVERMEYER >>>
>                       -< 100 GEAR INCH SINGLE SPEED??! >-

	Sure, the hell with this aerobics nonsense - get a MAN sized 
	gear - one size fitzall.


> Reg ,

> I was unaware that people that ride single speed bikes could figure gear inches



	Well Bob, I'm sure you'll understand that there are many
things that we  *_HAVE TO_*  keep you unaware of. 

	If you were unaware of this, see figure 1. 

	R

>>	Yeah, let's resurrect the dec bike club.

Gee Reg, I was hoping Kathy Norton would see that and.....



I thought I'd have the time to start the ball rolling with getting the paper
work done and so on. But, who has the time? Maybe I'm just suffering from 
"jersey" burnout.

Td

    I have a dim recollection of an interview with the racer who did that
    stunt - drafting behind a semi (CINZANO) doing just under 60 m.ph. He 
    claimed that he *was* doing 56 m.p.h.! 
    
    Roger

    	Most likely, there's no reason to doubt these heroic feats.
    	Especially with the gear ratios available in today's market.
    
    	I just find it very hard to swallow, that THAT kid, on THAT bike,
    	did THAT speed, in THAT movie. I severely doubt that he was
    	pushing a 54x12, or even a 56x12 ratio. Not with THOSE legs.
    	Not very realistic to me. But as far as the movie is concerned,
    	everything else seems to work out fine.
    
    	There's a topic in this file dedicated to the biggest boast on
    	the downhill subject. And I didn't see any of those replies
    	claiming to approach 60 mph as a viable, controllable atmosphere
    	for flying. My own top speed is 44 mph, down the Route 2 service
    	road, heading east into Boston?; I've also ridden that road that
    	leads from/to Wachussett mountain, & man, is that thing ever one
    	of the scariest downhills ever attempted on a road bike.
    
    	Ok, ok, I know what you're saying, "shut up face..."
    
    	Awright, Awright already...

	Awright, yes 50 is possible (repeatable) on Mountain road - 
thats the road, not the twisty one way system in the Mt Wachyousaid 
park.  I think I might dust off the rollers, detach the fan and see 
what I can crank out without any wind resistance (other than the drag 
of spokes, leg hair, etc.).  How close does drafting behind a semi 
come to this ideal ? (rhetorical question, don't bother) - dunno, and 
I probably couldn't find out without a cooperating driver.
Come to think of it......    Y'know, the back of a GMC Suburban is
kinda flat, should be able to get a good suck_along from that hmmmmm, 
comes complete with authentic truck type diesel fumes too....  I wonder 
if it'd do 60....

Anyway, I believe I could get 60 with my 53x12 on the rollers, I know
I can churn up 200 rpm when I get bored on a ride and spin down-hill 
for the heck of it - though not for long. 

	R

If my memory is not to flakie I think back in the spring of 88 during 
halftime of a UK basketball game a future Olympic hopefull set a new
indoor roller speed record of over 100 MPH. 

 This was a modifyed racing bike. I don't remember what the gear-inches 
were but the chain rings connected to the crank went to another set 
of chain rings mounted higher up on the seat tube and from there went 
to the freewheel.

 Anybody know what the indoor roller record is?

Bob

    
      The roller record I remember was not done usin the double reduction
    gear that you mentioned but on a bike with something like a 100 tooth
    chainring that was as big as the cranks were long.  The rider also used
    a disk wheel and something to stabilize the bike.  Can you imagin
    hopping off the rollers at 164 MPH !!!
    
    John C.
    

>    a disk wheel and something to stabilize the bike.  Can you imagin
>    hopping off the rollers at 164 MPH !!!
    
Shouldn't be much worse than hopping off the rollers at any other speed;
i.e. not much should happen except your legs coming to a dramatic stop.

                                      ken

    I read about this a few years ago, and remember that the first time the 
    rollers (wood) blew apart.  They then went to metal ones.
    
    They had a picture of the guy who set it, talk about legs!!!
    
    John

    re: drafting
    
    Pasenger cars are nice, because you can see the road ahead by looking
    through the windows.  Nisson Z cars work well too, as you can see OVER
    them (but of course you do lose some wind blocking advantage).  Trucks
    are smelly and you can't see anything. 
    
    Barry

re     <<< Note 1785.26 by SUSHI::KMACDONALD "Drywall Poster Child for 1990" >>>
>                                 -< NBD, eh? >-

>>    a disk wheel and something to stabilize the bike.  Can you imagin
>>    hopping off the rollers at 164 MPH !!!
    
>Shouldn't be much worse than hopping off the rollers at any other speed;
>i.e. not much should happen except your legs coming to a dramatic stop.

>                                      ken

	Right,  I'm never quite ready for that   ...nothing...  that
happens (doesn't happen) when I go over the side.   There's just no
inertia to get itself dissipated, well - rims and tires, ~=none.

	Just the extra 4 inches of drop, but no forward speed relative
to the driveway.  I know my kids have asked me what will happen if I 
ride off the edge, "won't you suddenly take off at 30 or 40 miles an 
hour and go blazing across the yard into the elm tree ?"

	- dunno about having a 8lb or so flywheel on the back 
though...  that might store some kinetic stuff - don't care, ain't got 
one.

	R

    re: .28
    
    Yea, imagine drafting behind a garbage truck - you must either be crazy 
    or lost all sense of smell in an unfortunate chemical accident...
    
    Now, the worse thing that can happen is if the truck makes a sudden
    stop.  If the crash doesn't kill you, the smothering garbage would...
    yeuuuch!!  (Is that what they call Meals on Wheels?)
    
    Eric_with_a_strange_imagination

The worst thing to draft. A truck spraying mosquito B'gone or some kind of RAID
into the bushes. It happened to me one day that I was riding into work. I was
rinding and could smell this terrible smell in the air. As I rounded a corner
there was this truck with a blower that looked like a large snow making gun
on its bed spewing the toxic crap. Thankfully, the driver saw me and let me 
pass. I couldn't believe I was beathing the stuff in for the past mile.

No sid efacts thet I now off yat.  ;-)

T

>No sid efacts thet I now off yat.  ;-)

Apparently not. I'd never expect anyone without a high degree of 
intelligence and a keenly functioning intellect to be able to learn an 
obscure dialect of Tibetan so fluently :-).....

    I like drafting horse trailers the best...
    nice box, yet narrow so you can see around it somewhat.  

    Re; 33 What about the aroma and the potential for excrement hazards...
    
     :-)

    re: 20
    
    Tom, I saw it, I saw it!  (And I'm ignoring it, or at least leaving it
    up to somebody else!)
    
    Kathy
    (Who_is_STILL_burned_out_from_the_Old_DEC_Bike_Club,_who_is_happy_to_
    hear_from_Reg_again,_and_who_is_sorry_to_be_getting_off_the_topic_
    here.)
    

    .22  There is a note that does tell about people going faster than 60 mph
    I was one of then. Up at Killington Stage race I hit 69 mph. I race
    with a 55 X 12.
    
    .23 About getting a truck to help you draft. In the movie he just
    caught the truck. The way I train out here in Western Mass. is to chase
    trucks. I have been behind a truck for 8 miles average speed was 45 mph
    most of the time I stay behind a truck for 2 to 3 miles at a time. The
    fastest I drafted behind a truck was 53 mph
    
    
    Mike ( Big Gear )
    

Pray to god that a truck you are drafting behind NEVER throws a tread.. 

    .37  It is likely that one will, but on the other hand going 45 mph
    in the middle of a pack is more of a risk than drafting a truck.
    point in case. At Killington Stage race this year 30 people went down
    in one crash at speeds of over 45 mph. I was lucky I was in front of
    that.
    
    It all comes down to how crazy are you.
    
    Mike (the need for speed)

    	Re - .36
    
    	I never said there wasn't one. All I said was 60 mph wasn't a
    	viable speed for flying. I didn't say, "nobody's ever done it".
    
    	Re movie:
    	I would find it most difficult to believe that he merely
    	"caught" the truck, especially if it was already doing 60 mph 
    	at the time. That sir, is highly unlikely.
    
    	I recently received a few words of wisdom from a "friend".
    	Chasing trucks is no way to preserve one's health. All the
    	horse-dung in the world won't matter if you're dead. The
    	biggest complaint? The last thing a trucker wants is mutilated
    	cyclists under his wheels. Hence, the last thing he wants to
    	see is a cyclist attempting the world land speed record behind
    	his rig.
    
    	That's just some stuff that was dumped on me recently, you
    	can observe your own rules. I'd just prefer to arrive at the
    	next destination alive, and without the hassle from a few well-
    	meaning League of American Wheelman members.
    
    	I really DO obey traffic laws guys...
    						Go faster, Big gear,
    							Face

    I liked the part when "Shorty" punched the clock...
    
    Eric

    Re -.39
    
    First of all you must not have watched the movie. The truck was going
    at a slower speed when he in deed caught the truck.
    
    Second Your friend must not know to much about drafting trucks. If the
    truck did put his breaks on you would have time to put your breaks on
    to slow down. but in case he stops very quickly. you should only be off
    the back of the truck about 1 foot. So the distance it take you to
    inpak the truck is little so the speed that you hit the truck is
    very little. Plus you should have a helment on.
    
    example if the truck takes 5 sec to slow down quickly. you inpak the
    truck at 1 sec thats mean you are hitting the truck alot slower than
    at the start.
    
    Third. I have talk with truck drivers from all over. Some have stop and
    talk to me about the speed I was doing. The only thing that scares the
    truck drivers is passing a biker. None of the truck driver ever told me
    or waved me off the back of there truck.
    
    So until you draft a truck and feel what it is like don't knock it. But
    the hard part is having the speed to stay with one and to get behind
    one.
    
    Great trainning!!
    
    Mike           

    Yea, but some truckers are real a$$es.
    
    Nancy & I were drafting off a Boston Edison truck on Rte 225 from 
    Carlisle Center while riding a tandem when another B.E. truck behind
    us must have radioed his buddy because all of a sudden he slammed his
    brakes.  I had to quickly try to stop and swerve to the right in order
    not to become a bumper sticker.  As I passed him, the passenger in the
    truck was yelling at us.
    
    A few miles down the road, a police officer who was directing traffic
    told us that we p*ssed off a B.E. truck driver.  He told the cop that
    we were HANGING onto the back of the truck.  We replied that we weren't
    crazy enough to do that.  Nancy then mentioned that the a$$ slammed on
    the brakes.  The cop said:  "Yea, I wanted to talk to him about that
    but he took off..."
    
    Eric

    
    RE: .41
    
        Have you got nothing better to do than try to rationalize your
    own form of Russian Roulette, Mike? There's an old adage that springs
    immediately to mind here (paraphrased):
    
       There are old cyclists and there are bold cyclists, but there
          are few old, bold cyclists.
                                                       
    How long do you figure you can beat the odds? 
    
        Lest you think that I'm blowing smoke, I have personal experience
    impacting a truck and I'll be the first to tell you that it ranks
    high on my list of "Things to Avoid in the Future". I was about 3-4
    feet behind and slightly to the right of the truck when he moved right
    and applied his brakes. I was traveling at roughly 20-25 mph when I
    applied my brakes. I have no idea how fast I was going when I struck
    the truck, but it was enough to bend the frame (top and down tubes)
    to the point that the front wheel overlapped the down tube by some
    2-3". This would seem to disprove your assertion that "the speed 
    that you hit the truck is very little." In any case, it only addresses 
    the speed with relation to the vehicle and completely ignores the fact 
    that you still have a relatively large speed with respect to the road 
    surface. No matter what speed you actually impact the vehicle, your chances
    of going down are pretty good, and if both you and the truck are still
    traveling at 30mph...
                                         
       One more point. I didn't even have time to take my hands off the
    bars in an attempt to protect myself (I had my hands on the levers
    trying desperate to arrest my forward progress - No need to worry,
    the truck helped in this regard). This meant that my body struck
    the truck cranium first, followed closely by my right shoulder. I
    consider myself fortunate that I didn't suffer a broken neck. The
    helmet did fracture, however. Chalk another one up for Pro-Tec.
    
       As for the truck drivers, I know a few and I've never met one that 
    was comfortable with *anything* drafting their rig. There are a lot
    of trucking companies that won't touch a driver who was involved in
    a 'fatal', whether the driver was at fault or not.
    
       No more sermon.
    
                                                    Steve
                                        
       
    If I had been
    drafting, I suppose I would have had no one to blame but myself.

    
    	RE:Dangerous antics,
    
    	I guess this means no more bumper skiing 8*)
    
    	RE:-1
    		You are trying to discredit drafting with a scenario
    in which you were not drafting and obviously not at the equivalent
    speed as the truck, so what's the point that hitting things hurts?
    When I was a kid I tailended a phone company truck in about the same
    situation as yours. I dented his bumper.
    	I think everyone knows that things like drafting or doing ballistic
    speed downhills on MTB are always accompanied by the disclaimer
    	'Could be hazardous to your health'
    
    	Roger

    Reckon I'll just stick to milk floats :-)
    
    Rod
    
    In case They are another peculiar british thing they are battery powered 
    flat bed trucks - about the size of a small compact (VW rabbit say)-
    used to deliver milk in the UK.  Apart from being in my class
    (top speed around 15mph) you can see past them.

Ya, I drafted a miller once...



A 12oz. and it had quite the impact.

T

    
    RE: .44
    
        Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly (a bad habit for a
    technical writer). I *was* going at the same speed as the truck,
    at least until he hit his brakes. I was slightly behind and to
    the right of him. He moved to the right and applied his brakes
    in order to make a right-hand turn. He slowed down faster than
    I did causing a speed differential between the truck and myself.
    This led directly to the violation of that rule of physics which 
    states: No two physical bodies may occupy the same volume in space
    at the same time.
    
       I'm not attempting to discredit drafting, after all, it's given
    John Howard a place in the record books. Just go play thrill-seeker
    with someone who knows that you're behind him/her, and not some poor
    bastard whose livelihood depends on how quick your reactions are on
    any given day.
    
    
                                                       Steve
    
        

If you guys spend so much time tucked in behind trucks, no wonder you
need helmets.  And, I thought the argument was that you needed to protect
your precious brains - seems a contradiction to me......

re .45
I always knew when I was having a bad day down on E3 in the '60's - that was
when the milk floats kept passing me........

Robin - (an old and hoping to be an ancient cyclist)

    Re .45:
    
    Hey, I was drafting a milk float a few weeks back that was doing 
    *at least* 18mph! Nigel Mansell must have been driving. I hung on 
    as long as I could, but it was tough, let me tell you.
    
    
    Rod
    
    (Where are all these other Rods coming from all of a sudden?)

    
    
    This may have been mentioned, but...  If you look carefully, the guy
    in the movie is never out of the little chainring.  I don't think 
    even the best trackie could spin a 42x12 up to 60 mph for a significant 
    distance.
    
    About this drafting: riding behind the big trucks at ridiculous speeds
    is a blast.  It makes you feel way big to be able to pedal your
    two-wheeler at such insane velocity.  The thing is, it doesn't really
    do that much for you.  Drafting behind a small motorcycle does much 
    more for your strength when you want to go at higher speeds.
    
    Jim-whose-wife-really-gets-pissed-when-she-finds-out-he's-been-drafting-semis

    How about the scene where the member of the Italian national team
    shoves a pump in his spokes?  How many racers carry frame pumps during
    a race?