Conference noted::bicycle

The stages for the 1991 Tour de France cycling race as announced by
the organizers Tuesday:
 
                      Total distance -- 2,462 miles
 
July  6 -- Prologue at Lyon, 3.31 miles.
July  7 --  1st Stage -- Lyon - Lyon, 75 miles, and
            2nd stage -- Bryon - Chassieu (team time trial), 26.8 miles.
July  8 --  3rd stage -- Villeurbanne - Dijon, 130 miles.
July  9 --  4th stage -- Dijon - Reims, 180 miles.
July 10 --  5th stage -- Reims - Valenciennes, 90 miles.
July 11 --  6th stage -- Arra - Le Havre, 156 miles.
July 12 --  7th stage -- Le Havre - Argentan, 103 miles.
July 13 --  8th stage -- Argentan - Alencon (individual time trial), 45 miles.
July 14 --  9th stage -- Alencon - Rennes, 102 miles.
July 15 -- 10th stage -- Rennes - Quimper, 125 miles.
July 16 -- 11th stage -- Quimper - Saint-Herblain, 155 miles.
July 17 -- Transfer by plane Nantes - Pau.
July 18 -- 12th stage -- Pau - Jaca, Spain, 138 miles.
July 19 -- 13th stage -- Jaca - Val Louron, 144 miles.
July 20 -- 14th stage -- Saint-Gaudens - Castres, 107 miles.
July 21 -- 15th stage -- Albi - Ales, 146 miles.
July 22 -- 16th stage -- Ales - Gap, 132 miles.
July 23 -- 17th stage -- Gap - L'Alpe d'Huez, 80 miles.
July 24 -- 18th stage -- Bourg d'Oisans - Morzine, 155 miles.
July 25 -- 19th stage -- Morzine - Aix les Bains, 120 miles.
July 26 -- 20th stage -- Aix les Bains - Macon, 100 miles.
July 27 -- 21st stage -- Lugny - Macon (individual time trial), 36.6 miles.
July 28 -- 22nd stage -- Melun - Paris (Champs-Elysees), 112.5 miles.

    That's a tough tour -- maybe too tough?  It seems to favor endurance
    over anything else.  So many things can go wrong in the course of
    that many miles that several of the best are bound to abandon.  It's
    also likely to discourage people from participating in races both
    before and afterwards.  I'd prefer to see shorter stages, and two rest
    days, but the same number of cols.  (Many riders have called for 
    similar kinds of changes over the past couple of years.)
    
    
    MATT

    re:.3:  You mean everybody's crying for an easier tour?  Wadda dey
    want anyway? A charity tour?
    
    ed

>    re:.3:  You mean everybody's crying for an easier tour?  Wadda dey
>    want anyway? A charity tour?
    
Yeah, make it too easy and next thing ya know, somebody will start thinking
that the World Serious or the Super Bowel is the world's ultimate
sporting event, and then there goes the neighborhood...... :-)

                  ken

re: It should be a tour, not a French RAAM

No matter how tough they make the TdF, it can't be compared to RAAM.  They are 2 
very different, nasty beasts!

Kevin

    I'm not saying "make it easier," but "make it sane."  It doesn't
    serve anybody to put in 180-mile flat stages that have no effect
    on GC.  Flat stages should be there, so the sprinters have a 
    reason to ride, but there's no need for them to be so long.
    
    MATT

    1990 and 1991 have a 180 mile marathon stage, but I think previously
    the last one was in the early 80's.
    
    ed

    Greetings,
    
    Does anyone have the TV schedule for the Tdf, this year?
    
    Fred M.

    CYCLE_RACING 353.17 has the US coverage.
    
    UK coverage appears to be 18:30 to 19:00 M->Sa 17:30 to 18:30 Sun.
    
    France, well better not mention French coverage....
    
    rod

    	Fred,
    
    	Basically:
    
    		ABC: Every Saturday, 10 minutes of 90 minutes dedicated
    		     to Tour, Wide World of Sports, 4:30 PM EDT
    
    		     Every Sunday, 1 hour, usually 5-6 PM EDT
    
    		ESPN: Every Wednesday evening, usually 7:30 PM EDT
    
    	As always, check local listings.
    
    	I know, I sound like a commercial.
    
    	Scott

    re .l-2(inclusive)
    
    Thanks for the pointers etc. you guys. Hey will we get that
    ABC woman who followed the race last year on a motorcycle?
    Her opinions on this world class race were just priceless. 
    My favorite one was when near the end of the race Greg had
    made up something like 3 minutes and got within like 3 seconds
    of the leader she asked Greg if he was upset that he still 
    hadn't won a stage. Maybe someone at ABC could invest a moment
    or two of research and get someone who actually had DONE THE
    RACE. What a concept!
    
    By the way the other night I was watching the prolouge and
    the 3 mile course was rdden generally in 6 mins and change.
    The speed the showed was 52 kph which I have very little idea
    of what the h>((( that is in mph's but I guess something like
    40+. I wanted to watch the rest of the tdf so of course my daughter had
    a meeting to go to so I loaded the bike and while she was busy learning 
    I went for a ride. On  the course there is this monster hill and was
    able to go  42 mph! So I can go as fast as the TDF even though its
    almost over a cliff!
    
    Fred Mudgett

    re .14,.13 
    
    The UK time-trial record  for 25 miles was broken a couple of weeks ago at
    something like 31.3 mph (Graham will give the correct figures I'm sure). 
    Humbling, isn't it.
    
    rod (who *still* can't spin his 52-16)

    Re .15:  Who did it? What was the time? 
    
    
    Rod M
    

    
    Re.15.16
    
    	Gary Dighton broke the record, 48-06. And of course, out came the
    standard cycling answer. "Yes, I reckon I can go faster as I wasn't at
    my best tonight". Sickening, isn't it. However, it must be said that
    the riders in the Tour ride on traffic free roads, but the English (no,
    not Scottish) riders are given more than a little help from the nice
    traffic.
    
    Graham.
    

    The 25m stood for a few years until last season, but I think this is
    the third time it's been lowered since last year. So what's happening?
    Are people getting fitter or is it trick components?
    
    
    Rod

    
    	I think that it was always going to happen like this. When Alf Engers
    record lasted so long, it became a legend, something all the older guys
    in the club would tell the youngsters. This leaves the record held in
    awe. Suddenly last year, Pete Longbottom broke the record. Everyone
    knows him, and this means that they realise that they too can break the
    record. Result? The record comes tumbling down fast...
    	Mind you, if you could see the bike that O'Bree rides 49 minute 25
    miles, you'd realise that fancy equipment has nothing to do with it.
    He always rides on a fixed wheel!
    
    Graham.
     

    	Kinda like the 4-minute mile. After Roger Bannister broke it,
    	others followed.
    
    	It's [mostly] in the head, son.
    
    	scott

    I think tri-bars might have a lot to do with the amount by which this
    record is crumbling..
    
    Someone told me this weekend that although O'Bree doesn't shave his
    legs he does shave his nose to keep the air passage open.  Also his
    setup is sort-of like a tri-bar setup.

    
    	Sorry, I was exaggerating Dighton's performance. He was a second
    slower (48:07).
    
    	Rod,
    
    	    Dighton and co all ride state of the art bikes. O'Bree has very
    poor quality equipment, and most importantly, still rides on a fixed
    (52x14, I think). Imagine spinning that gear for 25 miles at 30-odd
    miles per hour (O'Bree broke the Scottish 25 record at the SCU 25
    Champs this year with a 'slow' 49).
    
    Graham.
    

    And I thought it was because all the lorries slowed down to 32mph.
    
    :-)
    
    ed

Gee, all things being equal, a fixed-gear bike otta be *faster* than a 
multi-speed - less weight, less drive train / air friction, and plenty of extra 
incentive not to stop pedaling......
                                  ken

    We'll get  a chance find out if gears help on the track. According
    to  Les  Earnest,  due to an ambiguous statement in the rules, the
    US.  Nationals will allow derailleurs in the pursuit and one other
    track  race  (I  forget  which  one).  There  doesn't seem to be a
    consensus on whether using a derailleur will help or hurt.   

--David

	re. -1

	The rule you mention is ambiguous, however the official USCF
	ruling for the Velodrome in Colorado Springs is:

	Derailleurs may be used in Individual pursuit and kilo, BUT
	the derailleur or shifters must be fixed to prevent shifting.

	You figure it out.

    
    Interesting.  The advantages of this include:
    
    - Economy: you can use your road bike on the track. 
      (I don't know if economy is a consideration, but...)
    
    - Choice of "fixed" gearing.  You could theoretically choose
      the fixed gear you'd like to use with a flick of the shift
      lever before the event, then lock it down.  
      (I don't know if people in track events feel the need for
      that much variety.)
    
    -john

    I thought  that  Les Earnest (on the USCF board of governors) said
    that  you would be allowed to shift in the pursuit and kilo, but I
    don't follow this sort of thing carefully.

--David

    Re .22:  How poor quality is poor quality? There was an article in
    Cycling Weekly this spring comparing Chris Boardman's and Graeme
    Obree's (not O'Bree, Rod W, he's Scottish not Irish!) bikes. Boardman's
    bike was unquestionably state of the art, a low-profile with narrow
    tri-bars and baton wheels, but Obree's, while unconventional in its
    riding position, was scarcely low quality. The frame was built to his
    own spec and he was about to acquire baton wheels. Things like seatpost
    and brakes were definitely cheapie, but the bike was very light.
    
    I suppose the only way to find out would be to winkle him out of his
    funny riding position and give him Thierry Marie's TdF prologue bike.
    
    
    Rod

    re .30 - what did that have to do with the Tour?? Search me!
    
    Sorry :-)
    
    

    RE: .30
    
    Steve, rathole or not, thanks for an absorbing explanation.
    Clearly you are right in most respects: I can just see the
    derailleur getting mangled if one forgets to spin.  :-(
    
    I'm not sure what advantage the flywheel effect has - it is
    keeping up the momentum of your legs, but that's not forward
    motion.  There would be a loss of energy if you freewheel,
    namely, when the ratchet mechanism idles (click,click,click),
    which I guess you'd do if you're tired on the flats (but on a
    descent, presumably you're going as as fast as you want to
    if you let the freewheel idle).
    
    Still, I'm amazed at what people can accomplish cross country
    on a fixed gear - shows how derailleur/freewheel biassed we
    have become in 50 years, that is seems hard to conceive of
    conquering ornery terrain on a fixed gear.
    
    -john

>    Still, I'm amazed at what people can accomplish cross country
>    on a fixed gear - shows how derailleur/freewheel biassed we
>    have become in 50 years, that is seems hard to conceive of
>    conquering ornery terrain on a fixed gear.
    
Art Longsjo, the bike racer from Fitchburg, MA, for whom the bike classic
there is named, used to go on daily training rides from Fitch over into the
mountains of Vermont, back down thru Keene, NH and back to Fitch. Daily
training runs of 180 miles, through the mountains, on a fixed gear bike.
Sounds like a bag o' fun! :-)
                                     ken

     Yeah, if you've got thighs Ivan Putzski :-)
    
       Chip

    Moderator - maybe you could change the title of this note.  Its a waste
    of time looking for(extra) TdF info here... Seems like CYCLE_RACING is
    the only place to go.