Conference noted::bicycle

     	My experience has been that if you're serious about upgrades,
       do it all, if you can. Yes, you'll have the better components
       when you want to upgrade the frame, but dollars to donuts, you'll
       want better components when that time comes.
    
        Upgrading components (unlees you catch a sale or do well at the
       local b/s is usually more expensive too. You'd be better off
       putting thought into the next move. You almost always make  out
       better when you buy a "packaged" bicycle than if you are on
       your own collecting components.
    
        Just my $.02,
    
                     Chip

	In my opinion, if you want to do a partial upgrade, the best 
	investment you can make is in new wheels.  I started riding, 
	about eight years ago, on a fairly generic bicycle.  After 
	several months, I had new, lighter wheels built (the bicycle 
	was about $300, new wheels alone were close to $150).  They 
	made an amazing difference.  

	A year later, I got a great deal on a bicycle that someone 
	else had built up.  Rather than use the sewups that were 
	included, I've been using the clinchers that I already had.  
	Just last week, after over six years of use, my husband took 
    	them apart, and built new wheels, using the same hubs.  While 
    	he was doing this, I still had my second set of wheels to use.

	Peggy

    Hmm, good points.  Although I hate to put money into a cheap mountain
    bike, I'm leaning toward just buying the crank for it and leaving the 
    Shogun alone for a while.  Maybe I'll try to learn wheelbuilding this 
    winter.
    						Joe

>>    Hmm, good points.  Although I hate to put money into a cheap mountain
>>    bike, I'm leaning toward just buying the crank for it and leaving the 
  
Upgrades should be done on a frame that is worth upgrades. You wouldn't put
Dura ace on a Huffy would you. The frame is the most important component, its
the foundation of the bike. To put a stiff crankset on a bike that has a
flexable frame in the bottom bracket area, is not going to improve anything.
You're better off saving your money towards a bike/frame that is worth hanging
the next generation of goodies. I will agree that upgrading wheel sets is worth
it on any bike. Seeing that you can always use an extra set of wheels for back
up.

Tom "who uses his old sport tourer that he never upgraded for his winterbeater" 

    I should probably explain that I do use the mountain bike a good deal
    and expect to be using it more during the winter.  As it stands, the
    crank is really awful.  The frame, I'm sure, would not be suitable for
    serious mountain riding, but that really isn't in its future anyway. 
    The crank that's on it is really the only component that's bad enough
    to make the bike unpleasant to ride.  It seems as if sinking the sixty
    dollars into the crankset/bottom bracket could be worth it, since the
    total outlay for the bike will still be under $300.00, including the
    bike, fenders, blackburn rack, and Ideale saddle, which is just about
    the retail price for the bike alone.  I suspect that to get something
    substantially better, I'd have to spend close to double that.
    
    So, the point is not whether or not I want to do what needs to be done
    on the mountain bike, I do plan to do SOMETHING to rectify the
    situation.  The question I'm asking myself is whether I'd be better off
    spending the money on the road bike, which at least has a half decent
    frame, and using it's still-servicable parts to repair the mountain
    bike?  The cranks & bottom brackets are about the same price either
    way (if I use Shimono 105 parts, so the main difference in price would be 
    the front derailleur, which IO assume I'd have to move to the mountain bike 
    since Id be going from a 3-ring to a 2-ring crank.  If you follow that 
    you're probably as flakey as I am!  

    It seems like you want to replace the crank on the mountain bike
    because the rubbing noise under heavy load is driving you crazy. So you
    just want to know if you should spend $60 to replacing the crank and BB 
    on the mountain bike or upgrade the road bike with 105SC, 600 or
    Athena crank and moving the Exage to the mountain bike. 
    
    I would put the crank from the Katana over to te Royce just to make
    sure everything is alright before I go out search for the upgrade on te
    road bike. As in some previous reply, a groupo or a complete bike with
    groupo is cheaper then going out and get single components one at a
    time. But it's not worth spending $350 on a 600 grouppo if you only
    need a crank and BB. In most catalogs these days (Nashbar and
    Performance), they only sell the components individually.
    
    Supposing the Exage is fine on the Royce and you are happy with it.
    Then you can start looking at the upgrade on the Katana. I don't think
    you have to move your Front Derailluer over to the mountain bike.
    though. The Mt. bike derailluers are designed a little different to
    compensate for the granny grear. But with a little adjustment. You
    should not have any trouble with the Eaxage 52/42 with the Mt. bike 
    F.derailluer 
    
    As for the upgrade, my preference is the 600 w/ round chainrings over 
    the Athena if you have the $100. If you want the cheaper route with 
    the 105SC. I would spend the extra $5 on the 600 BB which would be 
    $80 total for that set up.
                          
    The reason I picked the 600 over the Athena in this case is because the
    600 is lighter, cheaper ($107 vs. $100) and the rest of your drive
    train is Shimano. Also a new chainring for the 600 is about 1/2 the
    cost of the Campy if you decide to switch the inner ring to a 39. But
    
    NOTE: Prices are from Performance Catalog
    
    I am sure ther are other who would pick the Athena instead and they
    probably have there own reasons. But for me, I like the 600.
    
    I am supposing you have all the tools to do the job yourself (crank 
    extractor, 14/15mm socket, lockring wrench, spanner, and a fixcup 
    wrench). If you don't, you might save a little money to get it done at
    a good shop because the toolcan be expensive. 
    
    
    Good Luck,
    
    huey 

    re [.-1]
    	Ya got it just right!  If I don't have to replace the derailleur
    then it looks even more attractive.  I have some of the tools, and was
    planning on adding to my tool set anyway (since I just bought a Park 
    bicycle stand and want to put it to some use!)  I probably will keep it
    all Shimono 600.  Thanks.

    I just checked out the components on my Katana, & found that they are
    Shimono Exage Sport.  Does anyone know what lines Shimono has below the
    105?

    Between the Exage Sport and the 105 is the Sport LX.
    
    Dave

Joe

Are you sure it's the crank and not the frame that is causing the flex/rubbing?
Usually the rubbing is just the chain against the front derailleur and a little
trim adjustment on the derailleur will silence it. This is caused by the frame
flexing more often, than by the crank & BB. Ask any Vitus 979 owner ;-)
If this noise is the only problem that you are trying to fix then I don't think
a new BB and crank will solve it. 

Tom

    [re -1] I make it a point to never be TOO sure about ANYTHING.  But,
    let's see how I can explain this . . . The crank spider (right
    terminology?) has a cover of some sor on it, with extends over the
    perimiter of the larger chain ring, presumably, to keep the chain from
    going off the large chain ring when ineptly shifted (as I frequently do
    on my other bike ;-).  When pedaled with low tension, everything is
    fine.  When you put some muscle into it, however, the assembly appears
    to deform so as to cause the chain to contact that cover (ie: the space
    between the cover and the chain ring gets smaller in one spot).  I had
    someone (slightly)  more experienced ride on it & his diagnosis was
    that it was something in the crankset flexing.  Other opinions?

>    fine.  When you put some muscle into it, however, the assembly appears
>    to deform so as to cause the chain to contact that cover (ie: the space
>    between the cover and the chain ring gets smaller in one spot).  I had

How's about, chuck the cover, and/or bend it so's it isn't narrower. I 
can't believe that one a crank made of anything heavier than Velveeta 
that the 'chainring protector' is flexing enough to interfere 
independent of the chainwheels flexing, too... especially that the gap 
changes under load (unless something's loose....). Chucking the cover 
may be all you need to do...
                          ken

    If the chain is sometimes rubbing against the chainring guard, 
    why not just remove the guard? (The ones that I have seen bolt or
    screw on to the large chainring.) You should be able to adjust the
    front derailleur so that it doesn't "overshift" the large chainring.
    This seems cheaper and easier than replacing the BB and crank...
    

    I'll have to take a look at it tonight & see if I can remove the guard.  

><<< Note 1716.8 by CRBOSS::BEFUMO "Knowledge perishes - Understanding endures" >>>
>                       -< A (sort of) related question >-
>
>    I just checked out the components on my Katana, & found that they are
>    Shimono Exage Sport.  Does anyone know what lines Shimono has below the
>    105?
    
    The smart group to get would be Shimano RX100, which has most if not
    all of the features of 105SC but at a lower price. If it works anything
    like as well as 105SC it ought to be excellent value.
    
    
    Rod

    re [.14]  I took a closer look at the crank assembly the other night. 
    What I found was that there really isn't a seperate guard.  The crank
    spyder is the full size of the larger chain ring, with a flat ring
    around the circumference.  It was this outer rim that I mistook for a
    guard.  the chain rings fasten to the inside of this outer ring.  Looks
    pretty chinzy, all in all.  Anyway, what happens is that when you're
    pedaling down hard on the left pedal, at the point where the crank arm
    is approximately parallel with the ground, the chain binds against that
    outer ring.  If I pedal gently, or put it up on the stand, it doesn't
    happen.  

RE>-1

It sounds like a real cheapo crank. I saw in NASHBAR's catalog #70 on the back
cover there was a SAKAE "RADIUS" crank for only $29.95 and it *includes* the
english BB. Give them a call and see if they still have any. This looks to be
what you need (and your wife will like the price also;-)

Tom

    Thanks, I didn't notice that one - I'll have to check it out, and
    you're right - my wife is starting to marvel how ALL of my hobbies
    tend to cost big $$$$s