Conference noted::bicycle

    Personally, I try to avoid verbal exchanges, since I have a tendency to
    allow them to escalate into physical confrontations.  I think it would
    depend on the type of infraction, though.  Someone who is just careless
    might profit from being reminded that "hey, it could be your kid out on
    a bike, so try to be careful".  On the other hand, arguing with the 
    wiseguy who's going to see how close he can come is just an exercise in
    futility - unless of course you're prepared to drag him out through his
    vent window & explain the error of his ways 8^).
    
     	One of my brothers was cycling in Montana when several characters
    in an old Caddy passed & threw a bottle at him.  He managed to catch up
    with them at a mall several miles later and beat them to a pulp -
    however, he's a rather accomplished martial artist - so the usual
    warnings apply - don't try this at home.

    The line:
    "So you must have a lawyer that'll walk on water for ya to drive like
    that, huh?"
    
    usually gets them to think about their screwup from a financial point
    of view and doesn't necessarily promote confrontation. -kb

    I'll have to remember that one, chuckle, chuckle.

We've all had run in's with rude/inconsiderate drivers, I'm sure.  I've had a
few, and on at least one, wish I'd handled it differently.  I was on my way
to the Air Force Academy early one Saturday.  Crossing over I-25, someone
came up behind me leaning on his horn.  Seems I was slowing him down ,as he
wanted to take expressway and I was in his way.  Well, he passed me anyway,
and took a short right that cut me off.  I flipped him off and he slammed on
his brakes (in the middle of an interstate access ramp, no less!), jumped
out of his rather large flatbed truck and started screaming obscenities at
me.  I kept riding, but I was really shaken.  I kept thinking to myself,
"He's gonna come back and run over me from behind!"  In less than two miles,
I decided to turn around and go home, turning a planned forty mile ride into
a twenty.  I went that route a couple of more times, but I was convinced that
I saw the truck on both occasions.  What had been a fun experience for me
had turned into a fearful one.  I regret to this day that I chose to take
exception.  I just let it go now when I encounter inconsiderate drivers, but
the damage to my riding has been done.

Patrick

    re.1  Martial Arts and Cycling . Why did I get so much pleasure out of
    reading that ? It can't be healthy to have enjoyed reading that !!  8-)
    Must be something to do with the underdog getting even.
    
     

    
    It's usually best not to argue at all.  In fact, you can usually
    diffuse these hotheads by waving to them, or saying something nice.
    
    Here's an example:
    
    	Driver:  HEY A%%HOLE!! GET OFF THE ROAD!!!
    
    	Cyclist: (cheerfully waving) Thankyou, sir. Have a nice day!
    
    Remember, these guys are excitable as it is, and are usually already
    pissed at something else anyway.
    
    
    Jim

I had someone cut me off yesterday too.  I shouted "Hey, watch it mister", and
the passenger made an obscene gesture to me.  I followed that with "You wouldn't
do that for a car" and a recitation of his marker plate number.  Unfortunately
he may have been out of earshot by the time I got to the marker plate.

I would estimate that I was rolling at 25mph+ when I saw that the car was in
position to pull out in front of me, so I prepared for it (though I did not slow
down until he did so).

Rich

    Hiya Rod, you ol' deconstructionist (remember, so was the Ayatollah),
    was it Tim that you, perchance, met on the road?  Sure sounds like his
    sorta driving.....
    
    One of the folks that I ride with every so often is a copper (and a CAT
    4) and his policy is to wave and say something nice to the idiot in the
    car.  Personally, I'd jump at the chance of putting my service revolver
    to the test but, then again, that may be why I'm not a copper....So,
    instead, I flick 'em the international sign of goodwill and, if they
    want to make a case out of it, I'll point out that "It will be nice to
    be driving <insert their car here> this winter!" or "Maybe now I can
    pay off my mortgage!".  It sho' makes 'em think twice about a next
    time!
    
    Alfonso

    There are all kinds of catchy comebacks.  Unfortunately, these things
    generally happen too quickly for more than a hand signal or a brief
    phrase.  At that point, the guy is generally not gonna stop to say
    "Excuse me, did I do something unacceptable?"  He's either gonna be far
    gone, or out of his car ready for a fight.  Soooo, I think the choices
    are to either keep your mouth shut, possibly writing down the plate
    number if the action was serious enough to file a complaint, or be
    ready to stop pedaling and start swinging.  Personally, I get hit
    enough in the dojo, and when I'm cycling I'd rather just let it pass. 
    (However, after two flats in one weekend, I've vowed that if I ever see
    someone breaking a bottle, they're going to get a broken glass
    suppository). 

    Yesterday must have been one of those days... I got cut off by a pickup
    that was stopped at a stop sign and then pulled out right in front of
    me (no, I was not blowing a 4-way stop!).  I yelled at him as he was
    pullling out (fortunately he had his windows down), and he stopped and
    I managed to barely get around him.  I thought sure that I was going to
    hit him for a while.  Anyway, I pointed out that he had a stop sign,
    and his response was, "I DID stop!".  That was the end of it, but I
    hope he'll check for traffic a bit more carefully in the future.  Maybe
    HALT isn't just for canis familiaris, it may work on motoris assholis.
    	Also had to stop on my ride yesterday to let a doe and a couple
    fawns across (I had the right-of-way then too), but I didn't mind that
    one near as much...
    
    Larry

Starting a quarrel is like breaching a dam; so drop the matter before a dispute
breaks out.

It is a mans honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
	
A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an
insult.

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

The above are not my words, but are good sayings I remember when in those
situations. Most of the time, these drivers are foolish and do not deserve an
answer or a second look. Forget about them and enjoy your ride. But if YOU are
in the wrong say "Sorry". 

Tom

    
    	I always enjoy yelling at stupid drivers/pedestrians because
    it makes me feel better that I was right and he/she was wrong. It
    also gets my adrenaline pumping and makes me bike so much faster.
    
    			Gumby (-:D

    Like someone said, the drivers that cut us up aren't a random sample;
    they're generally the more aggressive and belligerent ones. So I really
    feel for the author of .4 since I've had a few experiences like that
    too. You'd think that someone who knowingly cuts you up could accept it
    if you make a rude gesture at them, but no: making an "international
    sign of goodwill" can have an electrifying effect - I've had a couple
    of loonies who slammed the brakes on and started screaming when I've
    done that, including one who had what were presumably his wife and kids
    in the car. 
    
    I'm reluctant to not act though, because I feel these guys are getting
    away with it if I don't. As for the threat of litigation, that's not
    such an attention-getter here as it sounds like it is in the US.
    
    
    Rod

    	Tom,
    
    	Nice touch (from a former minister; Yeah, I know, it's
    	hard to believe I used to preach for a living, but
    	somebody's gotta do it.)
    
    	Scott

    	Yesterday I was approaching a 4-way stop at which a pickup was
    already stopped.  As I slowed down for the stop, the driver waved me on
    through.  This has happened to me a few times this summer.  :-)

    This isn't really the POINT of this particular note, but my experiences
    have been that the vast majority of drivers have been very careful,
    an courteous.  Maybe I just ride in the right places, maybe they just
    don't want the hassel of cleaning me off their bumper, but whatever the
    reason, I have no cause to complain.

    I would agree with many of the others and say unless you are a black
    belt in the martial arts...stay away from confrontation.  Several
    years ago there was an employee here in Colorado Springs who was riding
    after work who was run off the road by a motorist.  The vehicle stopped
    a ways up the road so she had a chance to catch up and give him a
    piece of her mind.  He pulled a gun on her!  So here, even martial
    arts might not get you anywhere....No she wasn't hurt or anything, he
    just scared the hell out of her and she of course called the police.
    Don't know the final outcome, I don't think she ever got the license
    plates.
    

    I think that yelling at people on the road is a waste of time and if
    your on a bike you are very vulnerable.  Check out note 1606, and
    don't expect the police to help. 
    
    It may feel good as your yelling, but be prepared.  If you yell you can
    only loose.  Take action first and get out there you can only win.  At
    least thats the way it seems.
     

    
    Over the years I have evolved (from what life form?) to the point
    where I get the best results and the least harm from the friendly
    or reproving wave - something that cannot be interpreted as the
    international gesture mentioned earlier.  A surprised expression
    may help if it looks like the guy was being careless/negligent
    rather than neanderthal.
    
    You *may* do some good, by promoting good relations - this is not
    just theory: I think the cycling climate here has improved over 
    the years (and we are kind of in the South down here), and this
    is in part because of friendly responses from cyclists - that
    includes being considerate in situations which inconvenience
    motorists even when the cyclist has the right (to hold up traffic 
    for miles).  You reap what you sow.
    
    (Oh, and by the way, don't think I don't have quite graphic thoughts
    of potential appropriate responses to the neanderthals!)
    
    -john

    re [.-1] I very much agree.  One of the reasons I've come to drive less
    and less (even before "discovering" bicycling, I preferred to walk to
    work rather than drive), is that I didn't like what happened to ME when
    I got behind the wheel - I became just like THEM - Yelling, swearing,
    making sure I never gave anyone a break - very unlike the generally
    unoffensive creature inside that tough metal shell.  Consequently, I am
    never anxious to turn my mellow bicycling time into that kind of
    confrontational experience.  Most of the time, I can actually
    sympathize with motorists - bicycles are something they're not all that
    accustomed to dealing with, are slow, and often appear erratic. (THEY,
    can't be expected to understand the consequence of hitting a pot hole
    with a 20mm tire, or a storm drain, etc.).  When someone does something
    stupid, it worries, me but it generally doesn't anger me.  Someone
    doing something obviously aggressive, on the other hand, is a totally
    different story.  Now, I have to admit that this hasn't happened to me
    on a BIKE yet, but I once had some chump in a mirror-windowed black
    Monte Carlo swerve into the other lane in order to "scare" me when
    jogging in (where else) Brooklyn NY.   Like I said, this is something
    different alltogether.  This is someone assaulting me with a deadly
    weapon.  They may think it's jolly good fun, but I'm no more amused
    than I would be if they pointed a gun at me, even if they had a smile
    on their face.  This is the guy that's going to kill someone, whether
    it's a bicyclist, a pedestrian, or another motorist.  What comes to
    mind is that jerk who killed Lacy Packer in NH - As one of the riders
    tried to wave him off as he bore down on the stopped motorcycle, he
    took both hands off the wheel and laughingly waved back - great joke. 
    With these kind of guys, I think the very least one should do is to get
    a license number and go to the trouble of filing a complaint, however,
    we all know how much good THAT'S going to do.

    
    Whenever someone gives me a break when I'm biking or even just
    sees me and gives me my rights, I try to wave in a friendly
    manner.  I think it's the best preventative medicine we have for
    the ugliness.
    

    	Yes, if a motorist gives me a break, I wave and yell
    	"Thanks" loud enough the they and everyone else can
    	hear.
    
    	Then, of course, you mess with me, I take your license
    	number and write a letter to the DMV. Enough letter and
    	you're in trouble.
    
    	Scott

RE .22

I too have complained on a number of occasions to the Police or the DMV 
about unsafe driving acts.  Unfortunately, I don't think anything was 
ever done about it.  

Has anyone in this conference complained to the authorities and had a 
positive response?

Thanks,
Denis

	A new, local publication, called New England Race (I think) had 
	an editorial on this subject not too long ago.  Their general view 
	was to be polite.  One good point they made was that bicycle riders 
	don't always stop to think that a gesture they make today, might 
	affect another rider tomorrow.  

	For example, assume someone cuts you off because either you were 
	in their blind spot (they didn't see you - after all, a bicycle is 
	much smaller than another car), or they honestly felt you weren't 
	riding as quickly as you actually were.  If the driver sees this 
	on his/her own, they might even be a little embarrassed.  However, 
	if you point it out to them loudly and obscenely, they begin to 
	develop a bad taste for all bike riders, and may take it out on 
	the next rider they pass.

	Maybe some of you feel equipped to beat the h*ll out of the rude 
	driver.  But, as a female who does a good deal of riding alone, 
	I hope that guy doesn't decide to take it out on ME!
    
    	Peggy

    
    		Yelling at someone who deserves it is one thing but
    there is never a reason for violence. I yell only at people who
    don't seem to care about the people who want to share the road with
    them. Some people do make mistakes and you can always tell by the
    look on there faces that it was not intentional. I feel the same
    way when I drive my car. I find that when I vent my frustrations
    on the very few who don't know how to drive it makes me appeciate
    those who can.
    
    				Gumby (-:D

    
    I agree with .19 that it's nicer and better to wave and smile: 
    
    a guy on our track team in high school used to smile and wave as the
    drivers went by, muttering under his breath "that dirty %$#@&, I hope 
    he gets a flat". It was a very effective way of letting off steam. The
    drivers always had a strange look on their faces as they tried to guess
    what he was saying.
    
    I try to ride defensively, warning drivers that I am there. I do this
    by 1) wearing brightly colored clothes; 2) using lights at night; 3)
    shouting "Hey!!" if a driver doesn't seem to see me (drivers LOVE to
    overshoot stop lines); 4) riding at least 3 feet from parked cars in
    congested areas so drivers behind and ahead of me can see me (sometimes
    I' ll take up the whole lane); 5) wearing a white or yellow helmet to be
    seen better (instead of a black one, which is nearly invisible to a
    driver); and, 6) using VERY OBVIOUS hand signals well in advance of any
    turns.
    
    Many drivers are just kinda ignorant. They don't think you know they're
    overtaking you (as if you can't hear their cars!). By quickly glancing
    over my shoulder, I can let them know that I know they're passing me.
    This avoids horn honking right next to me (scares the hell out of me).
    
    There is a certain class of drivers that are beyond help, I feel. There
    is one who lives near me - I see him drive by once or twice a month. He
    has an old beat up GMC Jimmy with a very loud highway air horn. He
    loves to go around blasting that thing at cyclists or anybody (just to
    see them jump, I guess). He blasted me and my wife one day last summer
    and made threatening remarks - all for the crime of riding on the road
    and not the sidewalk! I am always wary of this type, more so than ever
    now. I try to stay out of their way. Or maybe just smile and wave.
    
    Roger

>>    is one who lives near me - I see him drive by once or twice a month. He
>>    has an old beat up GMC Jimmy with a very loud highway air horn. He
>>    loves to go around blasting that thing at cyclists or anybody (just to
>>    see them jump, I guess). He blasted me and my wife one day last summer
>>    and made threatening remarks - all for the crime of riding on the road
>>    and not the sidewalk! I am always wary of this type, more so than ever
>>    now. I try to stay out of their way. Or maybe just smile and wave.
    
  	Why not report him to the local gustopo?  This sounds like 
    harrassment since it's happened more than once.  I suspect there
    might be some law or that you have some rights under the law to
    prevent this clown from treating you this way.  After the first
    few times of being polite I think I'd start considering some other
    course of action (like wraping your tire pump around his air-horn).
    I agree with the grin and bear it approach on first encounters, but
    the more you give in to this guys whims the more he's going to try
    to take advantage of you.  Like you said, he actaully takes pleasure
    in watching people jump, so next time he's going to want you to
    jump higher!
    						_Jerry

    re [.-1] "Horn size is inversly proportional to Brain size" - yes,
    ESPECIALLY since this character is doing it to folks in his own
    neighborhood, who might conceivably know where to find him ;-)
    
    Now, I'd NEVER suggest anything that could even remotly be interpreted
    as taking things into one's own hands, but, just for the sake of
    information, there's a book available through Paladan Press called
    "Getting Even - the complete guide to dirty tricks", or some such, by a
    fellow named George Heyduke.  One never knows when this guy's karma
    might start catching up with him.

    RE: -.2
    
    You could always print out and mail him a few selections from "The
    Adventures of Spike Bike."
    
    MATT

    
From mail sent by a fellow cyclist... (not the author, though)
     
 
With all the acrimony that's been passed around about bikes vs. cars,
I thought it would be a good time to talk about a really interesting
ride....
 
It was a Friday.  Fridays are usually good days because you have a lot
of teenagers drinking and driving, plus a lot of people who are in a bad
mood and in a hurry to get home from work.  The factories usually pay on
Friday, so you get a fair number of beer-commercial types cruising
around in their 4X4s looking for some butt to kick while they're knocking
back a few brews.  A cyclist's paradise.
 
I stuck a full mag in my MAC-10 and put another one under the
saddle.  The gun fits into the water bottle cage pretty
well, and it's fairy light.  I stuffed a couple of grenades
in my jersey pockets and slipped my Rambo-knife into its
sheath on the front fork.  Just for good measure, I grabbed
a thermite grenade and dropped it into the remaining jersey
pocket.  This is a little more weight than I usually carry,
but it was Friday night after all.
 
I caught the first one just a mile from home.  It was a type-A,
businessman-yuppie-semipsychotic in a BMW, who didn't like the fact that
I was occupying two feet of the lane in front of him. He let me know
with his horn and his middle finger. It's pretty hard to hit a moving
car from a moving bike, even with a machine gun. I must have fired four
bursts before I put one in the gas tank and the "Bimmer" erupted into
flame.  Fortunately,  this bozo managed to get the car off on the
shoulder before it blew up, so I didn't have to find a detour around the
fire.
 
The next one didn't come along for another five or six miles. This was a
couple of punks in an old Camaro.  They pulled alongside me and the
passenger barked out of the window like a dog.  Then the driver floored
it and screeched off in a cloud of burnt-oil smoke. I got lucky for
once. The punks got caught at a stoplight, so I didn't need the gun.  I
pulled into the center of the road so I would pass the driver.  As I
rolled past, he started talking some punk talk. I don't know what he
said, because he stopped in mid-sentence when he saw the grenade go
through his open window into the back seat.  I caught a glimpse of both
of them frantically scrambling after it just as it went off.  It
looked like some of the glass and shrapnel did some damage to the car
ahead of them, but it couldn't be helped. Every war claims some innocent
victims.
 
I'd had enough of the city traffic, so I headed out into farm country. 
As I went past a barnyard, two enormous dobermans took off on an
intercept course.  I dropped them both with one burst, and put a couple
of rounds through the farmhouse windows to remind the farmer about the
leash laws in effect everywhere in the county.
 
A short time later, I heard the roar of knobby tires behind me.  I
looked back to see a huge Ford pickup truck, one of those jacked-up
monstrosities with the undercarriage about three feet off the road.  As
it pulled closer, I heard loud country music blaring over the din of the
tires.  There were two men in the cab.   They both wore Stetsons, and
they were both drinking beer from cans.  An archetypical redneckmobile.
 
I felt like just blasting them right then and there, but I waited
to see what they had planned.  Sometimes these guys just pass you 
without giving you a hard time.  Not this pair, though.  The
guy in the passenger seat had a styrofoam cooler full of icy
water, which he was preparing to dump out the window on yours
truly.  That was all I needed.  As soon as the truck pulled
even with me and the guy started to toss the water, I put a
burst through the window.  This brought trouble, though, because
the cab was so high that I didn't get the driver.  The truck
continued down the road, and I tried to finish them off through
the blood-spattered back window, but wouldn't you know it, the
mag was empty.  
 
I couldn't reload while I was rolling, and the driver of the pickup had
by now stopped the truck and was turning  around to come after me.  I
had, maybe, two seconds to make up my mind what to do.  I reached into a
jersey pocket and pulled out the other grenade.  Then I did a time-trial
turn, pulled the pin, and looked over my shoulder at the truck which was
now speeding towards me.  This would have to be timed just right. I let
go of the handle and dropped the grenade,  then sprinted for everything
I was  worth.  I heard the blast and felt something graze my right arm.
Turning around, I saw the truck in flames and out of control. It did a
spectacular flip as it went into the ditch, then overturned. There was a
second explosion as the gas tank went up.
 
I decided to cut my ride short, since my arm was bleeding.  The wound
was superficial, but it was nasty enough to cause a lot of discomfort. I
thought back to the ammo I'd wasted on that turkey in the BMW, and
regretted it.  One of these days, I'd have to get some tracer bullets
for the MAC to help me aim.  Oh, well. I reloaded the gun since I was
bound to come accross a few drunks & punks on the way home.
 
A few miles passed and I heard a siren behind me.  I decided to play it
cool,  hoping they weren't after me.  I was disappointed.  The sheriff's
car slowed behind  me and I heard an amplified voice telling me to get
off the bike and lie face down on the ground. Damn.  I hated the thought
of wasting a cop, but if they'd go out and do their jobs, I wouldn't
have to ride around doing my part to rid the area of its rat population.
But I  had an idea. I still had a thermite grenade.  I yanked it out of
my pocket and tossed it on the hood of the patrol car.  I'd hoped for
the element of surprise and got it; the two deputies inside the car were
too startled to shoot at me. The grenade went off and started burning
its  way through the engine compartment. The deputies managed to stop
the car, and by the time they got out, I was a good quarter mile down
the road.  I heard shots behind me, but they'd never hit me at this
range with .38 Smith & Wessons.
 
My escape was short-lived, though.  I saw two more sheriff's cars up ahead
with riflemen crouched behind them.  I heard more sirens from behind. 
This was it.  I pulled out the MAC and fired wildly at the roadblock,
crouching to make a smaller target.  If I had to go, I was going to take
some of them with me.  It had been a good life.  I'd had some good
times. I just regretted that they were getting the  wrong guy.  I felt
something hot tug at my shoulder.  I reached up, expecting to pull my
hand away bloody, and found my office-mate's hand instead. "Bob..Bob!..
Wake up!  You fell asleep at your desk! C'mon, it's Friday afternoon. 
Time to go home!"
 
I went home, firmly resolved never to eat that cafeteria chili again.
-- 
 __
/  \				Bob Fishell
\__/				ihnp4!ihlpa!fish
 
 
 
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    RE .30
    
    Great stuff!!  Anyone who rides in suburban areas has probably wished
    they were packing a MAC-10 at times!  Just last night I think I got
    honked at by the Yuppy in the Bimmer.
    

    I've been noticing that the people who honk seem to be the ones that
    generally pass safely, giving me the widest possible berth - frequently
    women with station wagons full of kids.  From the replies I'm getting
    the impression that some people regard this as an expression of
    annoyance.  It just may be possible that SOME people actually use the
    horn for it's intended purpose - as a warning.  Although my mirror has
    usually informed me of their presence in advance, I'd rather be
    alerted by a horn than a fender!  

    
    In Italy, for example, people honk politely from behind *before*
    they start to overtake you.  And it's a little toot, not a H-O-N-K!!
    That's just the etiquette they learn.
    
    I think cyclists in the country too often encounter well-meaning motorists
    who come up right behind you, sit for a while, then pull out beside
    and *then* H-O-N-K!!  I don't think they realize how loud that horn is,
    a few feet from an unsheltered ear.  They just aren't thinking.
    That's really no excuse, but it is a reason.
    
    -john

    As I mentioned in an earlier reply, I consider myself VERY fortunate in
    having so far encountered mostly courteous drivers.  Most of the
    "toots" I've noticed were from a goodly ways back, giving me reasonable
    warning without making me jump out of my skin.  In fact, my only recent
    annoyance was with some character in a big pick up truck who passed
    REALLY close on Rt 62 in Berlin.  As soon as he has passed me, he moved
    further over closer to the center line.  I wouldn't even have given it
    a second thought, except that up ahead of me was another cycler who had
    passed me a few minutes earlier.  As Mr. PU approached him, he once
    again drifted toward the shoulder, passing him as closely as he had
    passed me.  By then he was too far for me to see his plate number, or I
    would have recorded it for future reference - ya never know when ya
    might come across a guy like that's vehicle parked in some lonely spot
    . . . ;^>

>>    annoyance.  It just may be possible that SOME people actually use the
>>    horn for it's intended purpose - as a warning.  Although my mirror has
>>    usually informed me of their presence in advance, I'd rather be
>>    alerted by a horn than a fender!  
    
    	I don't buy the warning bit.  They use their horns to let you
    know that *you* are in their way and that *you* should get off
    the road onto the shoulder where you belong.  I saw this just
    last night on a club ride.  If the driver had been curteous he
    would have politely slowed down and waited until the group crested
    the hill...but being in a hurry (I guess) he honked for the
    riders in front to pull over so that he could pass without crossing
    the yellow.  It just comes down to courtesy and after you have
    been out there a while you will come to realize that bike riders
    and Rodney Dangerfield have a lot in common (can't get no respect).
    To prove this point take a 50 mile ride over virtually any habitated
    road in the country on your bicycle, then go home, put on some
    leather and ride the same route on a motorcycle...believe me people
    will not honk at you to get out of the way.  It's got to be respect!
    						_Jerry

    re [-1] - I DO see your point, but I'd still rather get honked than
    hit.  Like I said, in my on case, I think I've been fortunate thus far
    and I've found MOST drivers to be pretty much OK.  Even the stupid and
    rude ones, I think I could tend to overlook because I'm out there to
    mellow out, not to aggravate myself, so I'll make an effort to maintain
    a pleasant state of mind.  Again, vehicular assault is a different
    matter alltogether, and if I ever manage to lay my hands on a
    bottle-breaker I'm gonna reupholster my saddle with his skin ;^}

    From my experience, most of the people who honk their horns at me are
    usually the types who drive with their noses an inch from the
    windshield (you might call 'em nerds) and I assume that they're just
    being extra careful.  Sometimes, however, they honk their horn really
    close to me and all they do is shake me up rather than notify me that
    they're in the vicinity.  I don't pay much never mind to these since
    they're so few and far between.
    
    As for dealing with other road menaces, my policy is similar to NATO's
    flexible response (tho' I don't carry nuclear artillery).  If the car
    comes dangerously close (a felony, in my book), they get the finger
    plus a barrage of abuse.  This is also referred to as "feedback" in
    certain electrical systems.  If the car pulls a stunt (a misdemeanor),
    I just wave my hand in disappointment.  On the positive side, if a
    driver lets me by out of courtesy, I wave thanks to them.
    
    What I've found most pernicious lately are those drivers who will pass
    me on a blind curve or blind climb, potentially setting themselves (and 
    me) up for an accident if someone is coming in the opposite direction. 
    What's most annoying, in the end, is that they gain a only a handful of
    seconds, most of which they lose when they come up behind a slower
    moving car in front of them, which they usually can't pass in a 2 lane
    roadway.
    
    Alfonso  

    I've just read 36 replies that suggest only car drivers are bad and we
    are all perfect.  I admit there are drivers out there that are just
    looking for trouble and a bike is a great target.  However, we have a
    major impact on the way we are treated (with respect and all) by how we
    behave on the road.
    
    As a cyclist driving a car I have been annoyed by other riders and have
    wanted to stop and give them a lesson in courteous bike riding.  I'm
    sure you have seen them.  Two abreast riding in the middle of the road. 
    One rider riding in the middle of the road for no good reason.  People
    riding on the wrong side of the road (scaring the hell out of
    everyone).  Bikes running stop signs and red lights just as cars are
    going through.  These are the guys that get the motorists pissed off at
    cyclists and as someone said earlier, there is a delayed effect.  They
    take their anger out on every other cyclist they see.
    
    I'm not making excuses for stupid drivers but we control a big piece of the
    image that exists.  Let's do our part.

    re [-1] - OH, ABSOLUTELY!  (though I do belive it WAS mentioned).  Now
    that I ride I'm certainly more aware of riders and their problems, but
    I'm STILL annoyed by people riding two abreast in high traffic areas,
    frequently during rush hour.  Here are a couple of other 'favorites'"
    
    - Last saturday I was riding through concord when I saw thus guy riding
    down the street the wrong way, with a child (his daughter I assume),
    riding on the luggage rack, with neither of them wearing helmets. 
    Unbelievable!
    
    - Just before I picked up my cycle computer, I had just finished a ride
    & was driving over the course to see how far I had gone.  Fortunately,
    I was going REAL slow, because as I crested a steep-hill/sharp-curve,
    right in front of me, right in the middle of the road, was "Mr.
    cement-head cycler".  He's wearing regulation cycling-shorts, and
    jersey, but he's got no helmet, and he's wearing walkman headphones and
    is apparently swerving back and forth across the road to the beat of the
    music.  I was REAL tempted to say something, but then I figured what's
    the point?  Anyone who would act like that to begin with certainly
    isn't going to respond.  
    
    
    	However, as someone else pointed out, just 'cause a motorist cuts
    me off, that doesn't mean I'm going to get even by cutting off someone
    else just because they're driving a car.  I haven't been cycling so
    long that I can only see things through a cyclist's perspective, and
    even before I started riding I was always aware of the difference when
    I saw people riding responsibly and others who were not.  I recall
    driving on  Rt113 near Pepperell a few years ago, and getting behind
    some cyclists who were riding three abreast,  taking up the whole lane. 
    I was trying to get to a store before they closed and yes, I was REALLY
    pis*ed after a few miles of this.  Nevertheless, I did not resort to
    hasseling the next cyclist I came upon riding safely on the side of the
    road.   

      On observations... I've noticed that phenonmenon of people passing
    me on corners setting themselves up for a head-on with another car.
    Weird. Usually giving much more lee-way, appreciated... yes, but
    to put yourself in that position? I'd rather wait until the cyclist
    passed the curve.
    
     Chip

    	Well, I just got back from 20+ miles around Littleton, MA.
    	This ride also involved me getting touched, not hit, by a car.
    
    	I was coming up to a T road, where the traffic coming from my
    	right has to stop. I saw the car coming, so moved over to the left
    	slightly (not much traffic on the road I was on). I continued
    	on. She continued on, slowing only slightly to make the right
    	hand turn. By the time she was around the corner, she had already
    	grazed me with the right front fender. Being the short-fused
    	person I am, I stopped the bike, pointed to her and said,
    	"You're gonna kill someone and get you butt sued off." She just
    	kept saying "Sorry." It probably scared her as much as it
    	did me.
    
    	Scott

    	One thing that affects my perception of an area of the USA is how
    the drivers treat bicyclists. Years ago I want to a rally called GEAR
    in the Bluegrass. Near Lexington, Kentucky.  I was amazed at how
    considerate the drivers were. They would hang back about 200' or so
    behind you, especially near curves, wait for a straightaway with no
    oncoming traffic, and cruise (not blast) by giving you plenty of room.
    	In talking with others at the rally, we hypothesized that the
    motorists were treating bicyclists the same way they do horse riders:
    don't spook the horse by following too closely, or pass too closely or
    noisily.   What I wouldn't do to ingrain this philosophy into all
    motorists.
    	For the driver who honks while 10' behind me, I raise an index
    finger to my lips (the ssssh, quiet!  signal) for them to see in their
    rear-view mirror.  I agree that aggressive responses do more harm than
    good and your ability to curb them is a measure of maturity. - Chris

re .42

Here in the sunny SoF, it's similar.  Most of the natives hang back and give a 
relatively inoffensive hoot to let you know they are there, and then pass you.
Invariably they give any on-coming car very close clearance in order to give
more room to the bikies.

It is significant that the locals (06 plates) are reasonable, most of my narrow
sqeaks have been down to tourists, with British and Belgian being especially
pig-headed.  The real worry however is the doom-brained motorcyclists who seem
to think they have a shield of invincibility (caused by the helmet which is
usually 'worn' with the arm threaded through the strap !!) and are invariably
1 cm their side of the white line.