Conference noted::bicycle

    Is there any special reason why you want the components to be NEW?
    I think it'd be much cheaper and easier to find a complete bike,
    with the original components.  Then you'd be assured that the
    dates on them were correct, etc.  There are tons of bikes like
    that in Italy.

    Those prices seem way too high.  I used to mail order record hubs for
    $50 to $65.  I remember seeing an old Trek racing bike, full Nuovo
    Record circa 1983 selling for $800 to get rid of it.  
    
    I bet a lot of this equipment (especially the derailleurs) is in the 
    bottom of bike shop bins.  You could probably negotiate with them as
    the market for this equipment is dwindling.
    
    steve
    

Prices may be on the steep side, but I think a lot of the components 
from that time period may be of comparable quality to what's available 
now, altho maybe a bit heavy. I know I've got about 3 bikes worth of 
components from the early-mid 70's (not much Campag) and it's all still 
running fine. 'Spose your parts source would have some Shimano Crane and 
Dura-Ace derailleurs from that time period????

Anyway, to make the bike REALLY authentic you need to buy *2* sets of 
barcons - the Campag to keep nice in their box, and the Suntours to put 
on the bike and ride with. I don't think I ever met anyone who liked the 
Campag barcons, and even folks with 'full-C' bikes would swap out the 
barcons for the Suntour, after trying the C-cons. Doing that would lend 
a real 'authentic' flavor to the project.... :-)

                ken-what-worked-in-a-bike-shop-back-then

>    frt. & rear derailleurs, down tube shifters, Regina 6 sp.
>    freewheel and chain  (sold altogether)      		 150.00
    
Hmmm, least in my part o' the country, 6 speed f-w's were just a bit 
rarer than fossil rhinoceros skeletons (of which there WERE a few...) in 
the early 70's..... might be better off (for historical porpoises) with 
a 5. No triple fronts need apply, thank'ye........

                                       ken

    	If you could share the name of your source, I could use a 26.4
    NR seatpost.
    
    	Stuff DID change over the years.  Changes that I know about
    are: the quick release on brakesets changed engraving and shape,
    and handlebar engraving is significantly different for Cinelli,
    at least.  I have a bike that is one of the first to be sold
    with NR, and it has an old record BB in it.  It doesn't match, but
    it is "correct" if there is such a thing.  Do yourself a favor
    and get the whole bike.  You'll never figure it out otherwise.
                                               

>Anyway, to make the bike REALLY authentic you need to buy *2* sets of 
>barcons - the Campag to keep nice in their box, and the Suntours to put ...
    
    What's a barcon?

    
    
    re. 1:  I'm sure it would be cheaper and easier to buy a complete bike.
    	    In fact I think I will buy a complete bike first to temporarily
    	    satisfy me.  I still want to build a bike from the frame up. 
    	    it may take 2 or 3 years to accomplish but I have never done
    	    things the easy way.
    
    re. 2:  Campy may not be an antique yet but alot of the stuff is no
     	    longer in production.  As the supply diminishes the price will
    	    go up.
    
    re. 3:  I'll keep an eye out for those parts.  On rainy days I go with
    	    a couple of friends in search of bike shops.  We try to avoid 
    	    the big stores.  We go to the small ones where alot of times we
    	    stand around talking for hours.  On rainy days business is down
    	    and they love to talk bikes.  We have picked up some good deals
    	    as well.
    
    	    What was it people didn't like about the Campy bar-cons?  I
    	    thought they would be something I would definitely go with.
    	    I have become a fan of bar-cons.
    
    re. 4:  Upon a closer inspection the freewheel turned out to be a
    	    Regina CX.  Not even close to fossilizing.
    
    re. 5:  The seat post he had was a 26.0.  I'll ask about your size.
    
    re. 6:  Bar-cons are shift levers that mount onto the end of the 
    	    handlebars.  They fit in the ends where the bar end plugs go.
    
    
    
    For now I have decided to go the complete bike route.  I may have found
    something already.  I talked to someone who had a Lejuene for sale.  It 
    was a Reynolds 531 frame with Campy Nuovo Record.  He described the
    bike to me and it sounded like it was in near mint condition. 
    Everything was original.  The description of the paint he gave me
    though made me think maybe it ahd been repainted.  He said there was
    not a single mark on the frame.  Any way to tell if a frame has been
    repainted?  
      He said the frame was from the sixties but was not sure of the year.
    He could possibly find out.   I forgot to ask what model it was.  Could
    someone tell me what models Lejuene produced and which were the better
    ones?  With a 531 frame this bike must have been one of the better
    ones.  How does $650.00 sound?  It also came with Cinelli stem and bar
    and Champion tubular wheels.
    
    
    						Thanks,
    	   					       Norm
    
    
    
    

.6  --  barcon is name given to shifters that plug into the end of handlebars.
        They are easier to reach from "hands on the drops" position.
        It might have been a company's tradename, might still be, but it is
        commonly used to refer to bar-end, the generic name, shifters.

        Biggest complaint used to be that the longer cables running through
        more housing did not shift as crisply as down-tube mounted ones.  With
        the housings that come with the indexed systems the complaint is
        pretty much solved.

  Now, are the new Centaurus (sp?) grip shifters from Campagnolo considered
  bar-end shifters?

    
    Oops... I thought barcons were ultrasonic particles that dogs
    emitted when they barked.
    
    You learn so many things in this notes conference!
    
    -john

    	re. -.1   Yeah, most people don't know about the barcons. They seem
    to be emitted in the presence of meowcons. What the physicists' can't 
    figure out is why dogs think bicycles emit meowcons, since we all know 
    they don't.
         - Chris, owned by a Maine Coon meowcon emitter

re: -a few... why the Campag barcons weren't liked much.....

the Campag barcons made at that time were considered by most to work 
kinda poorly. They worked in friction mode in both directions, which 
combined with the short length of levers and long cable housing runs 
made the "pull against the derailleur spring" mode very sticky and prone 
to non-shifts and overshifts. Suntour made their barcons ratchet in the 
"pull" direction, which made 'em a LOT smoother and easier to operate. 
Dura-Ace decided that was a 'good thing' and made THEIR barcons with a 
spring-tension goober in the barcon to offset the pull of the der. 
spring, but from a few user reports, these weren't perceived as being 
much-if-any better than the Campag....

As for complete bikes, last year I bought a full Campag (exc. for Phil 
Wood hubs and BB) Eisentraut from the mid-70's or so for $475.... seemed 
like a good deal at the time.... great bike!
                                                  ken

    
    
    The '81 Raleigh Super Course that I bought as a left over in '83
    had Suntour barcons (BAR CONtrolS maybe?) on it.  I'm told it's
    one of the last Reynolds 531 Carlton-made bikes sold before Huffy 
    bought the name for the U.S. market. 
    
    It had a unique mix of components; Weinman side pull brakes and 
    concave rims , lots of Suntour stuff, Chromed drop-outs, Ultra 
    Six freewheel, VX rear derailer,  a Raleigh casting on the front 
    of what appears to be a Suntour front derailer (works backwards; 
    pull shifter back for small chain ring), SR crank and seat post with 
    "Raleigh" stamped on it.
    
    I didn't like the shifting all that much so I replaced the barcons
    with the Suntour clamp-on down-tube shifters.  Maybe the Ultra 
    freewheel and the extra cable length didn't mix well. I don't know.
    I might try them again for the fun of it. 

        
    
    
    Diverging a bit, I still have all the original equipment, but I 
    found a set of Record five speed hubs (straight QR lever) and had 
    some Mavic MA40s laced up with DT spokes. These wheels really sing.
    I put a 3T stem on to bring the reach in a bit and put some Cyclone
    pedals on it. It's a blast to ride.
    
    I wouldn't part with it for the world, but what do you suppose it's 
    worth?  It's absolutely mint. I just saw the note from the guy whose 
    stolen Competition was valued at $1000 (!).      
    
    Anyway, I know what you mean about looking around in shops for 
    new older stuff, it's really kind of fun.  It could get addictive 
    too I bet. Like collecting antiques or something. A tinkerer's dream.
  
    I don't know what the hell I'm doing but it's fun learning. New bikes 
    are advanced and all, but there's no "adventure" in buying them. I can 
    appreciate older, quality things. They have their own character I guess. 
    
    I wish I bought that Puch Olympian I wanted in 1980...
    
    Ed.

    My younger brother has an almost identical bike to the Raleigh in .12.
    It's a Carlton he got when he was living in Northern Ireland.  He's
    always loved the bike, and over the years, we've upgraded the Suntour
    components.  Recently, however, he tried to take it on a flight to 
    San Fransisco: it was crushed under a baggage cart.  The airline only 
    wants to give him 60% of $400 for the considerable damage they did
    to the frame and components.  Fortunately, he lives with two lawyers....
    
    
    MATT

>    I didn't like the shifting all that much so I replaced the barcons
>    with the Suntour clamp-on down-tube shifters.  Maybe the Ultra 
>    freewheel and the extra cable length didn't mix well. I don't know.
>    I might try them again for the fun of it. 

One of the reasons a lot of folks have trouble with barcons is that they
insist on running the cable housing all the way from the 'con, under the HB 
tape all the way to where the brake levers are attached (this all for a 
standard dropped-style bar). This puts an extra curve or two in the housing.
I always run them from the 'con, under the HB tape as far as the bend in the 
bars, then out into space, curving back to the downtube housing stop.
Plus you gotta grease the heck outa the cable, and make sure there's no
ragged ends where the housing was cut. If you do that, these things work
as well as they're going to....
                                                    ken

    	Ken,
    
    	I was in Goodale's last night looking around. They had a
    	brand new FUJI setup for touring. The BARCONS were done
    	exactly as you mentioned: Run the cable housing under
    	the tape until the handlebars curve up. The housing then
    	goes out into space and gently bends back to the downtube.
    
    	Scott