Conference noted::bicycle

    	The GSW newsletter had a great write-up on the Doggy Dazer by
    a Tandem couple. Very funny. This thing sounds like the answer to
    many prayers. Probably better than a bullwhip! 
    	-Chris   whose elbows are the dog's targets :-(

    
>    	The way it works is to emit a high pitched
>    sound that they claim causes the dog to freeze
>    or run and that it's hardly audible by humans.


But the dog owners can't hear it!  I still say use one of the hand 
held presurized "boat horns".  Its only like $8-9  and it bugs the 
hell out of the dog owners too when you blast their 60# puppy!

    I'm not up to date on boat horns -- do they still contain freon? I hope
    not, because we'll all be fried due to the depletion of the ozone layer
    all that much sooner if they're not. As it is, between the ozone
    depletion and the greenhouse effect, we may not have that far to go
    anyway!
    
    /rw

    Sounds interesting ... can anyone elaborate on how effective this
    device actually is?   I used to cycle in Kentucky now and then.
    It seemed like every house had a vicious dog and an owner to match.
    Most dogs are scared off by a little yelling or a few squirts of
    the water bottle ( at least enough to outrun them ).  However, I've
    met up with a rare few that are truely blood thirsty...I'm not sure
    anything short of a thermonuclear explosion could deter these beasts!
    
    /scott 
    
    

    
     I got one of these last summer. It is small and it can be clipped to a
    belt or to the waist of shorts. When I wear my Digital jersey it fits
    nicely in the rear pocket.
    
     Effective? Oh hell yes! Though it dosen't seem to work well on small
    dogs. On medium to large dogs it works GREAT. Where I ride there are
    three dogs that seem to be a mixture of pit bull and boxer that no
    longer bother me because of this device. When the pit/boxers would run
    after me and bark there were two chow's that had advance notice and
    would wait for me in the road. I can zap these dogs and they plant
    their claws into the asphalt to stop. Then they run the other way.
     I have used this thing many times with great success. The more
    aggressive the dog the better it works!
     But on small dogs it dosen't seem to work as well. By small I mean
    really small, little lap dogs. Which isn't a problem since they can't
    stand to bite and run at the same time.
    
     The dog's owner can't hear the noise but they hear the dog bark and
    see it run home.
    
     Also the range is limited to about ten feet which is not a problem, it
    works well when you are on a bike.
                                                                        
    

	If this thing really works, it sounds like the greatest thing 
	since the clipless pedal!  :-)

	Jerry, can you tell us where to call or write for the Brookstone
	catalog?

	Regards,
	Denis
	

     I bought mine at Sharper Image, it was less than $30.00
    
    
    
    

    Brookstone's  mail order number is 603-924-9541.
    	FAX #603-924-3989
    Customer Service 603-924-9511
    
    or you can visit them in person by driving up to
    Peterborough, N.H. or one of their outlets in
    the Malls.  
    							_Jerry

    Hey, I thought I'd done my time with dogs nipping at my body parts.
    Well over the Martin Luther King holiday I went down to Charlotte
    North Carolina to ride with John Ellis. During the ride we went
    out to what I would discribe as the boondocks and it would appear
    that every family in boondockdom has a dog. Some of those suckers
    are BIG! John seemed to have them and their reactions to us two
    wheeled targets down pat. We'd be going by some house and he'd say
    a calm voice, "that dog (a Great Dane or some version of German
    Shepard) will stop chasing us at this tree." John has to be an expert
    at dealing with our cannaine friends because there are so many of
    them down there.
    
    Fred Mudgett

    If the dog's within 100 miles of Charlotte, John passes it every week.
    :-)
    
    ed

    Hee, hee ... maybe that's why they have such a look of
    anticipation when I come by - kind of like a can of Alpo
    on wheels!  Glad to bring some entertainment into their lives. :-)
    
    -j

    NOW NOW PEOPLE Remember that dogs are our friends if not for 
    companionship at least it could be for pure sprinting workouts!!
    I try to make a game out of it providing that there not bigger
    than me. For example take the harmless tandem that a few of us
    pass when we ride from TTB & ZKO. They have perfected the art
    of teamwork and if it weren't for there age I would have to say 
    they would be quite a problem. It goes something like this...
    the black lab is the sprinter and tries to cut you down near
    the front of the property (which could be from any side of the 
    road) while the other endurance partner quitely persues you at 
    an angle a geometry student would be proud of. He/She will at
    times make the cutoff (I gotta work on those intervals) then you
    must hit the brakes let him pass and really HAMMER out a sprint
    that Major Thomas would be proud of.
    So if you people want to take the "fun" out of your your (and the
    dogs) lives go ahead I'll just KEEP ON SPRINTING  ;-)
    
    huffing & puffing
    ERIC
    
                               

    	Eric,
    
    	Major Thomas? Did you mean Major Taylor?
    
    	Scott

    I was in Brookstone last night (Mall of New Hampshire in
    Manchester), and they have the DOG DAZER on sale for $25.99

    	- Lee

    At a recent GSW meeting, we had a fellow describe using a dog dazer in
    his neighborhood.  He walked around the neighborhood trying not to make
    it obvious that he was seeking d-o-g-s.  One of his "favorites" bounded
    toward him.  He subtly secured his weapon, he activated it kinda close
    in so that no observers would think that he was doing anything
    suspicious, the dog still ran BUT in the opposite direction.  Satisfied
    that there was an effect he returned home.  On the way he noticed a cat
    minding its own business.  Being curious, he again activated the
    weapon.  The cat immediately sought a new place to mind its own business.
    
    ed

    Augggghhhhhh!  Using a Doggy Dazer on a poor harmless little kitty
    cat!!  Kitty cats don't chase bikes. Or bite bike riders (when riding,
    that is - at home may be different).  Please don't use this new
    toy/weapon on the nation's # 1 pet. Save it for the dogs!
    	- Chris, who shares residence with Maine Coon cats (you can't
    really say you 'own' a cat)

    I didn't say that "I" used it, only that someone else had.  However,
    they are not all THAT innocent.  We actually had a club member injured
    because a cat had decided to run across the road at the instant that
    the rider was coming along.  That's got to be a 1/1000000 occurrence
    compared to dogs though.
    
    I do worry about my Calvin, she's just not afraid of bikes and will
    readily approach a rider.
    
    ed

I believe a black cat ran in front of the 7-11 team time trialling in the Giro 
last year, taking out several of the riders and ruining Hampsten's chances for 
repeat win.  

I never did like cats! (tho Ed's are nice 8^)... hi prez)

Kevin

    I'm surprised I had to look this far back to find a "dog" note.
    
    Anyway, last night I was out for an evening ride and there were a
    couple of dogs running loose which were usually chained.  They were
    being pretty belligerent, so I stopped to see what they'd do. 
    Apparently their owner called them so they backed off a bit, and I
    took off.  I was on a slight downhill so they couldn't catch me, but
    just as I started to celebrate my victory over them I was stung by a
    bee!  It left its stinger, and a bit of yellow bee fluff, just above my
    knee.  Somedays you just can't win!
    
    Jamie

     Just live with the satisfaction that it was the bee's last
    desperate act on the face of this earth :-)...
    
      Small comfort, I know...
    
          Chip

    Could it be the the bee was running away and got caught from behind?
    
    ed

>    being pretty belligerent, so I stopped to see what they'd do. 
    
    Considering you stopped for a pair of belligerent dogs, I'd feel
    lucky riding away with just a bee sting!
    
    John

    	How do you know when you're riding slow?
    
    	When the bugs are stuck to the back of your jersey and not
    	the front.

    The dogs just barked, but I didn't know them and was wary of tangling
    with strange dogs.  At the top of this same hill lives an old dog
    that's never leashed and apparently deaf because it never takes notice
    of me 'til I'm almost by it.  Except for one day.  I was coming up the
    hill and it strode out into the middle of the road and staked its turf. 
    I got to the top, and it started nipping at my heels, so I pedaled
    faster and shook it.  I've ridden past it a hundred times and only that
    once has it done more than raised its head.  Even the gentlest family
    pet will run deer in the spring, and even the quietest lap dog will
    come after you when you least expect it.
    
    The bee sting surprised me more than anything -- I was doing about 25
    mph and our paths just happened to cross.  The dogs and bee just made
    me mad, so I finished my ride anyway.  The last bee sting I got was
    even more surprising -- it was 2 AM and I was standing around a fire at
    a campground in Maryland, unwinding after a Grateful Dead concert.  The
    person next to me had swatted at a "bug" and re-directed it right into
    my gut, where it got me.  I unwound a lot, but it still hurt the next
    day.
    
    Time to venture out into the blast furnace for the ride home . . . 
    
    Jamie

    Gee, maybe we could have a couple more Spike Bike stories...
    
    How about _Spike Bike Meets Cujo_ or _Spike Bike vs. the Killer Bees_?

    I had a dog experience recently, and now seems a good time to mention
    it. This happened a couple of weeks ago when I ventured out for a
    pre-work cycle. 
    
    Climbing a long hill, I hear a faint yapping from the back of a house
    I'm passing. Amazing how sensitive to bikes even far-away dogs are, I
    think. Then the barking gets louder. Then I hear paws on tarmac, so I
    look round, and there's this brute lolloping up the road towards me.
    Dammit! It comes up beside me, barking and growling. Only one thing to
    do: still cycling, I unclip the pump from the frame, hold the handle,
    and, not quite sure exactly where the dog is, take an experimental
    swipe round behind me. Whack! There's a satisfying impact of pump on
    dog, the barking changes to a surprised yelp and the brute turns round
    and scuttles off. What a victory! I even managed to get the pump back
    onto the frame without stopping, falling off or cycling into oncoming
    traffic. 
    
    Then the heavens opened and I got soaked.
    
    
    Rod 

    I actually got bitten by a dog a year or so back - gave me a hell of a
    shock since they normally just chase and nowadays I find a squirt of 
    water from your bottle is very effective.
    
    (works on kids too - I had one jump out into the street and fire a
    water pistol at me a cupla days back).
    
    rod

    I use a battery powered water pistol filled with household ammonia.
    those electric water pistols will really lay down a stream. A dog
    with ammonia in his eyes and nose loses interest in you quickly.

    A few years ago I occasionally road with a guy who was a chemical
    engineer at Sandia Labs.
    He had rigged up a system on his handlebars that would dispense
    a large white pellet out the open end of the right bar.
    The pellet was of his own concoction and he absolutely refused to
    give details of its make up except to say it was "a nitroglycerin
    compound".                                             
    
    Riding with him was a real blast (in more ways than one!)
    At the first sight of a dog, we would clear off his right side and
    wait for the fun. As the dog closed in, he would trigger off a pellet.
    It exploded on impact with the ground with the report of a .22 cal,
    and plenty of acrid white smoke. Most dogs would literally flip
    upside down in shock and fall over themselves while beating a hasty
    retreat.
    
    He said on his regular commuting routes, all the dogs would slink
    away, merely at the sound of his bike.
    
    Terry                                                        
    
    
    

    Re .29:  Must have been satisfying to have repeated victories over the
    great doggy enemy, but it's not new. The May/June issue of New Cyclist,
    a British magazine, carries an article that looks at cyclists v dogs
    through history. One of the items mentioned is a thing like a blank
    cartridge that was thrown at the ground and exploded on impact to give
    the effect on dogs that you so nicely describe. The article did seem to
    think this method had been consigned to history though...
    
    
    Rod

    	Well, here we are, pacing John Ellis on June 1st somewhere
    	north of Charlotte. It's afternoon, it's comfortable (for us,
    	we've got the cooler in the car), it's beautiful out. John's
    	doing his thing when, all of a sudden, a scurvy mongrel comes
    	screaming out, wanting to make John his next tasty morsel.
    	John doesn't do anything. The dog gets his muzzle to the
    	right side of the right chain stay just as John brings his
    	right foot up in his pedal stroke. Caught the dog flush on
    	the muzzle. He does a flip, he gets up, he's gone. The three
    	of us in the car erupt with wonder and applause.
    
    	What a life.
    
    	Scott

    
    Now of course I could claim that I *planned* it that way... :-)
    
    -john

I was riding through Wellesley (MA) Square the other day.

Four different car doors opened as I approached within 2 minutes of 
each other.

In the last case, I yelled LOOK at the top of my lungs as a women
got out of the car.  She jumped 9 inches in the air in surprise
(which made me feel great). 

Getting some great dog ideas which could be applied to people who 
open car doors as well!

	~Mike

Someone told me that they used to just turn around and chase the dog!

I thought this sounded kind of neat and I had a certain mutt in mind..not
to big and always waiting for me at his house on a hill...of course it's the
up-hill side..why ask?

I've encountered him twice on my 10 speed which at the time was operating
without the advantage of the bottom gear...makes hills tough!

This last week I was doing the same hill on my hybrid...it's got a really low
bottom gear.

As I approached the house I saw the beast...he saw me...he started his run
completely around the house, though a small fenced area and came over a stone
wall with a great bound just opposite me. Now I had plenty of time to plan
my retaliation so I did it...I popped into that bottom gear and headed
straight at him yelling at the top of my lungs! 

He headed right back into his yard with me on HIS heels! I chased him right 
into his back yard screaming all the way.  When I stopped, he kept going 'till
he was behind a barn where he stayed while I turned and went on my merry way,
:-):-):-):-) I little winded but happy that I won that time. 

Now I wonder what he'll do next time I show up? I also wonder what his owners 
though of this 190lb mad man chasing their "best friend" around their yard on 
a bicycle?!?!

/tb/
    

    I haven't looked through the old replies, but I think the suggestion
    was in here somewhere:
    
    As the dog approaches you, or even better while still on its own
    property, point at the dog and in a loud, commanding voice yell "NO"!  
    
    This weekend I went to Indiana for a family reunion.  Several of my
    relatives and I rode in the mornings, around the northwest Indiana farm
    country.  I quickly found out that there are a LOT of dogs that aren't
    tied, aren't used to bicycles, and just LOVE to come out in packs and
    chase while barking and growling.  
    
    I used the above pointing and yelling, and was amazed that it worked
    EVERY TIME.  Now I'm sure a dozen people in here will tell me of the
    Cujo-like dog they encountered on which this didn't work, but it even
    worked for my wife when she did it.  In every case but one the dog(s)
    got this amazed look on their faces and stopped.  In the one exception
    it was because my IDIOT brother-in-law was having fun with two medium
    sized dogs that came after the two of us on the flats - he'd accelerate
    just enough to stay ahead of the dogs and shout canine scatological
    comments about their habits, parentage, and stamina to the dogs (put in
    your own doggie insults)...  I have to admit it was hilarious watching
    him (from safely well ahead) staying just ahead of the dogs and yelling
    at them - but stupid none-the-less.
    
    I'd much rather shout at the dog than hit it with my pump, but would do
    that too if I had to.

     Re; .35... I agree. I use the COMMAND mode often and works well for
    me. Either yell NO! Or GO HOME!.
    
     Chip

    There's a number of topics in this conference dealing with dogs.
    
    I love  dogs;    my  family  would  be  lost  without our dog.  She's a 
    full-fledged family member.  [How do I know?  She's always at the table 
    while we eat!  :-) ] I wouldn't  hesitate  to  put  her down if she bit 
    someone.  My son was attacked by not one,  not  two,  but  three  of my 
    aunt's Saint Bernards when he was about 8 or so.   They had him down on 
    the  ground  and  were  biting  his  back.  He still bears  the  scars.  
    ANother story tho...
    
    But...
    
    If a dog attacks  me  while  riding,  I wouldn't hesitate to use deadly 
    force, if it did physical  harm.  As a last resort.  I guess what I got 
    out of all the replies are  a fuzzy set of rules for dealing with dogs.  
    My approach is that I'm entitled to use of a public way over an animal.  
    And that a  dog must be under control by the owner at all times.  Also, 
    that an ounce of  prevention,  ie an ounce of squirtgun-powered ammonia 
    water,  MACE,  or  HALT II,  is  worth  a  pound  of  lawyers,  police, 
    small-claims courts & medical bills.
    
    My wife & I took our ATBs to New Boston recently,  for a ride along the 
    rural  roads....    What  we  encountered  were  DOGS!   One was a real 
    junkyard type.    It  started after me at the top of a steep hill.  The 
    hair was raised all along its back.  I stopped, & turned around.
    
    The next was a golden lab,  but  I  was  scared s______s, because there 
    were  two  others right behind it, from  the  same  house,  one  a  big 
    shepard.
    
    I can understand why folks on a rural dirt road in New Boston would let 
    their dogs run.  But...  not at me, please.  Next time I go there, I'll 
    be prepared per below.  And, I won't hesitate to  use  the  stuff.   Of 
    course, in Merrimack, where there are leash laws, I had a  lovely brute 
    nipping at my heels for about 1/4 mile.  Sure gave me  a  good  aerobic 
    workout that trip!

    I guess the fuzzy set rules are something like:
    
         1.   Passive acts, such as boat horns,  high  frequency  whistles, 
         turning around, etc.    These  intend  no  harm  whatsoever to the 
         animal.
         
         2.   Threatening behavior, such as arms raised, "NOOOO",  grabbing 
         your air pump, running  at  the  dog, etc.  Again, no harm, unless 
         escalated to #3.
         
         3.    Active acts, such as kicking, striking blows with  inanamite 
         [sp] objects, HALT II, MACE,  ammonia squirt guns, etc.  Here, the 
         appraoch is to "discourage" further agression  on  the part of the 
         dog.
         
         4.  Deadly force, if 1-3 don't do it.  I don't see this happening, 
         unless there's a wolf pack at your  heels.    If  used,  it  would 
         elimate the immediate threat, but may cause the  pound,  er ton of 
         cure mentioned previously.  Assuming you're legal to be carrying a 
         concealed weapon, and that you can prove your life was endangered, 
         you  may  get  roughed  up  in  other  ways, such as discharge  of 
         firearm,  noise,  reckless  use    of    deadly   force,  reckless 
         endangerment, and all the other BS  that "civilized" society would 
         lay at your feet.  I  don't recommend this one, but there's always 
         exceptions...
         
    After reading most of the replies to  the varous topics, I'm signing up 
    for MACE or HALT II...

      When I lived in the flatlands of Florida, I used to take all day bike 
    rides on the rural roads around Gainesville.  On one particular ride, 
    a pack of mangy, very wild-looking dogs came after me.  My 
    adrenalin-induced acceleration saved me from being torn to shreds.
    
      Ever hear of "snap-n-pops" ?  In the spirit of the reply on the
    Sandia Labs rider who used explosive projectiles, these over-the-counter 
    toys, when thrown by the handful have a miraculous effect on charging 
    dogs.  They turn tail and run the other way at top speed.
    
      I have had many encounters with dogs while running, on a daily basis
    on runs in Madison, Alabama.  I had a cache of tree branches which I
    would use and discard at strategic locations.
    
      Even the parks in Colorado Springs are filled with dogs, sans leash,
    and their wicked aromatic byproducts.  I try to ignore the curious
    beasts, and they tend to ignore me.  When they do get within 10 feet
    and act aggressive, a loud shout to "get back on your leash" usually 
    gets their owners attention.