Conference noted::bicycle

>>Well I just wanted to say that they work GREAT! I took a TREK 950 out for a
>>test ride this past week and fell in love with these new shifters. I wouldn't
>>buy a new MT bike without them. If you try them you'll be hooked. 
    
    	Yes, but what I would like to know is "Would you like them
    on your road bike"?
    						_Jerry

>>    	Yes, but what I would like to know is "Would you like them
>>    on your road bike"?

Rumor has it that Shimano is thinking of putting the levers IN the hoods of the 
brake levers. They'll be more like buttons than levers, press one to down shift
the other to shift up....

Answer: Yes, if they work as well as the Mt bike set up.

Tom

>> I wouldn't buy a new MT bike without them.

I don't think that will be a problem (or even an option) since both SunTour and
Shimano have come out with them.

I wonder if they are compatible with earlier versions?

The next innovation that I would like to see is a better front derailleur, one
where you pulled the cable in both directions, I guess you would need a loop of
cable.  The problem is you often need more force than the spring can supply
when shifting from the middle to small chainring under even a little pressure.

    --.2  There was a picture of Hampsten racing with the brake handle
    mounted units.  The explanation said the brake lever pushed sideways
    shifted to larger cog and a push button released it one stop at a time.
    It was a ratchet with one shift steps.  Nothing else much said
    about the equipment.

    re. -1
    
    	Were the shifters/brakes mounted in an *Aero* configuration
    under the bar tape or exposed above?  Will a retro_fit kit be
    available that will incorporate the old down-tube bosses?
    
    						_Jerry

    From the picture and little bit of explanation it appeared that
    there was another cable coming up to the right shift lever, the
    rear derailleur cable, but that the lever was in aero' form on
    drop 'bars--cables under the tape.  Nothing was said about whether
    the chainring shifter was brought to the left brake lever in a
    similar fashion.  Is that what you meant in the question?

    Re brake-mounted shifters for road bikes:
    
    There's a couple of pics in the latest issue of "Bicycle" (a UK
    magazine) that appear to show these shifters. In both pics (two
    separate pics of different pro cyclists), the gear cable emanates from
    the top of the brake lever and is brought down parallel with the
    down-tube: I should guess that the cable outers are terminated at the
    down-tube gear lever boss. 
    
    If these new shifters become available throughout the Shimano range
    (not just top-end), I'll be very interested. Apart from any
    considerations of speed, shifting will be safer if the cyclist doesn't
    have to remove hand from handlebar (I came off this year after hitting
    a pothole while one hand was off the bars changing gear).
    
    Also, it seems to me that the magazines, in the UK at least, are
    falling down on informing us of new machinery. I have seen no
    description anywhere of these new shifters, yet if some pros are using
    them, surely the journos have seen them? Also, Campag have a new road
    group out, Xenon, yet the only way I know that is that I've seen it
    mentioned in the ads at the back of "Cycling Weekly". How can I fritter
    away my money without advance info of the hot products?
    
    
    Rod
                                                           

    <If these new shifters become avalaible throughout the Shimano range...
    Yes, Shimano thumb shifters (STI Shimano Total Integration=SIS +SLR
    + superglide) is avalaible throught the Shimano range:
    EXAGE 300LX, EXAGE 400 LX, EXAGE 500 LX, DEORE LX, DEORE DX & DEORE
    XT.
    RJJ

    Has anyone seen the "STI" systems in the stores yet? Both on the bikes
    and parted out? I am looking to upgrade my bike with the shifters only.
    
    Keith

    
    Keith,

I've ridden a couple of bikes that have the new thumb shifters. They are great.
To do an upgrade will be costly. You'll need to do the whole system levers,
derailleurs and freewheel. If you have hyperglide system now, you may get away
with the levers only. BTW the shifters and brake levers are one peice on the
Shimano STI system. Suntour makes the shifter seperate from the brake levers. 

Tom
PS It was a TREK 950 and a TREK Hybird from Bicycle Alley that I rode.

    I have had a good look at both of the new shifters (Suntour & Shimano).
    In my own opinion if you are a hardcore rider don't buy them.  If you
    are just going to ride around town or very easy off road, maybe.  My 
    reason being that one good shot with the knee and they are history.  
    I feel that for the money that you have to pay for them they should be 
    built better.  The Shimano shifters are not even repairable.  Suntour 
    claims theirs are but I'll bet you won't get your local bike shop to 
    fix them.  
    
    Also when your are riding technical trails the brake levers should be
    set for a standing position.   With the Shimano system (where brake
    levers and shifters are one unit) set for this position the shifters
    are in an almost unusable position.
    
    I think I will just stick with my thumb shifters mounted under the bars.
    They have suffered alot of abuse and keep on working.  The reason for
    the new shifters was so you could shift without taking your hand off
    the bar.  I can do that with my setup.
    
    Just my opinion,
    		    Norm

                      <<< Note 1353.11 by WMOIS::N_FLYE >>>
    
>    I think I will just stick with my thumb shifters mounted under the bars.

If you moved your normal shifters under the bars they would work "backwards". 
That is a push on top would become a pull on the bottom.  Do you switch sides
as well so your rear derailluer in on the left hand?  With normal thumb
shifters I only push with the thumb, I use my index finger to pull back.  Seems
like this would be harder with them mounted under the bars.

I also met a mountain bike racer who said that he tried them and didn't like
them because it was too slow to make multi-cogs shifts.  Each push will only
shift one cog so to shift a big jump like four cogs you had to push-release,
push-release, push-release, push-release.

They do sound interesting but I don't ride my mountain bike enough to justify
the money.  All I want is a straight pair of bars.

>>I also met a mountain bike racer who said that he tried them and didn't like
>>them because it was too slow to make multi-cogs shifts.  Each push will only
>>shift one cog so to shift a big jump like four cogs you had to push-release,
>>push-release, push-release, push-release.

This is true, but it only happens during a upshift not on a downshift. You can
shift over 3 or 4 cogs in one push on the downshift, a must have in any bike
shifting. 

I must admit the system had a remote feel to it, that the past system didn't
have but I still think it's worth it. I can concentrate on the trail more on a
bike equipped with this system. I feel that there is more time lost in
shifting due to a week grip on the bar during a shift from the old system than
that found in the slowness of the STI design. Well for me anyway... I was never
comfortable with the top of bar shifters.

Tom

PS my car is a slow shifting automatic and I would rather drive it in traffic
than any slick 5 speed.

      When I mounted the thumbshifters under the bars I had to switch
    sides.  The rear shifter is now on the left.  When downshifting simply
    keep pushing with your left thumb.  To upshift pull back with the index
    finger.  A slight twist of the wrist may be needed (depending on finger
    length) to get all the way to the highest gear.  
    
    Shifting felt akward at first but I don't even think about it any more.
    To complicate matters my other two bikes have downtube shifters and
    barcons.  My new Fat Chance will have drop bars with Deore XTII thumb-
    shifters mounted inside road brake levers.  Wilderness Trails has a
    unit to do this.  I will be able to ride the rough terrain on the drops
    and be able to shift without taking my hand off the bar.  
    
    						Norm

    
    Hi I just managed to sell my Trek 2100 at a great price...and
       am in the market for a new bike for this season.... For 
       some reason I keep going back to the RB-1. Maybe it is because 
       in my price range up to $1000, I haven't found another bike that
       rides and feels as sweet. I noticed in the new models (92-93)
       the shifters are bar end shifters. The only time I'd seen these
       has been normally on touring bikes. Has anyone have first hand
       experience with this? I would appreciate some input. The shifters
       by the way are Utegra's with non Hyperglide cogs.
     
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Shaw

What did you get for your 2100?

    
    I haven't had direct experience with bar-end shifters.  You are right,
    that in times past they were only associated with touring bikes.
    
    Bridgestone says it is trying bar-ends with the RB-1 because racers
    (at least the non-STI types!) are getting into the new bar-ends.
    I've heard this a couple of other places, so maybe it's so.  I myself
    have bought a set of the Ultegra bar-ends to try out on my bike
    (probably the De Rosa).
    
    Apparently the new generation bar-end shifters are responsive, without
    the sluggishness that those of old (on the touring bikes of old).
    The Ultegras come with quite robust cable housings (metal), which may
    be why they're responsive.
    
    Anyway, Bridgestone wasn't cutting corners in spec'ing bar-ends for 
    the RB-1 - they just thought it was a good idea for the cyclist.
    (Note - the less expensive RB-2 doesn't have them.)
    
    -john

    re:.16 
    
      I got $760.00 for it, I had paid $850.00 and put little over 600 
      miles on them. Not that I didn't like them so much, but the time
      that I had the bike and where I'm located just called for more 
      MTB riding, (bad roads, apple orchard near, occassional mud and
      snow).
    
    re:.17 
     
      Thanks John, I guess as prejudice as Bridgestone has been with 
      trying new fads, the bar end shifters must have proven themselves.
      I guess I'm destined to own and RB-1, last year when I was shopping
      for the Trek, I kept thinking about the RB and how I realy enjoyed
      the ride. 
      The shop that I am considering buying from has also a Serrota that
      I haven't dared try yet, incase I love it. Mind you it's only a 
      few more hundred bucks, maybe if I can sell a pair of skis...
    
    
   Shaw
    
      

    
    I just put some Suntour bar end shifters on my road bike (related
    note 2156.21), and I like them. I really appreciate not having to 
    reach down between my knees to shift, and am certainly more 
    steady when shifting-while-out-of-the-saddle. My only complaint
    about them is that they tend to "loosen up" after about 15 miles of 
    rolling hills... lots of up/down shifting.. and the shifter has to 
    be retightend (I'm thinking of trying some kind of thread loc). 
    I find I shift more and shift better. I'm surprised that more people
    don't use bar-end shifters or grip shifters... perhaps it's an
    image thing?
    The shifters only add about 1.5-2' of sheathed cable to the 
    shifter-cable-derailleur path, and I haven't noticed frame flex
    causing unintended shifts (but I ride a Cannondale). The only time
    I accidently hit the shifters with my knees is when making right
    hand turns out of the saddle.... then I occasionally bump the shifter.
    
    doug
     
    

    
    Doug I'm hoping that the lossening of the shifters is the brand 
    and not an atribute of all bar-end shifters. But you brought up
    a good point I should try and see if my knees hit the shifters
    on this bike while out of the saddle. 
    
    Shaw

    I have used both suntour and shimano (now on my tandem) with no
    loosening.  Perhaps a washer was forgotten, or it is an older design
    suntour (pre index).
    
    steve

    Handlebar mounted shifters are becoming very popular with the racing
    crowd.  The new Shimano STI shifters (mounted on the brake levers) are
    being used by European pros.  The grip-shift (mounted on the bar ends,
    but activated by twisting instead of levers) were used by Bob Mionski
    in the last Olympics and are now seen on my amateur racer's bikes.  The
    bar-end shift levers are the cheapest option, but probably work about
    as well.
    
    The main advantage of of the bar-ends is being able to shift without
    moving your hands off the bars.  Former U.S. national coach Eddy B. (in
    his book) recommends bar-ends for criteriums, as you can shift while in
    a full sprint.  Most people will probably like them because they are
    just much more convenient.
    
    Ken
    

    The problems of the old bar-end shifters is not their speed or
    accuracy, both is quite good, but the risk of being bumped in the pack,
    accidently of course, and hitting the shift lever.
    
    steve

    Or of having an opponent "accidentally" bump you into a wall
    (aka, "the wrong gear")?
    
    ed