Conference noted::bicycle

    	There are a lot of clubs in the Nashua/Milford area.  It really
    comes down to what type of riding you do.
    
    	The Granite State Wheelmen (Wheelpeople to some) GSW is the
    largest, with evening group rides on Tuesday's in Milford (Blakes)
    and Merrimack (Alexanders) and Weekend Rides all over the state,
    with various degrees of difficulty and distance.  The Milford
    rides tend to be at a leisurely to moderate pace (12-15 mph) and
    the Merrimack Rides tend to be at a moderate to brisk pace
    (15-20 mph) depending on how many *rabbits* show up on a given
    day.
    
    	If your looking for racing or race training there is the Nashua
    Velo Club (NVC) which has some type of affiliation (not sponsorship)
    with Goodales Bike Shop on Main St. in Nashua.
    
    	If your looking for time-trials the Granite State Cron (GS CRONO)
    club does time trial on route 130 every Wednesday evening.
    
    	I'm associated with the Tuesday evening GSW ride in Merrimack, so
    just stop by some Tuesday evening at 5:45 and introduce yourself
    and I'll show you around (so-to-speak).  We will also be doing
    40-60 mi. weekend rides from the Merrimack location every Saturday
    morning starting in September.
    
    						_Jerry

    	RE: 1290.0
    
    	Well, you certainly have a well-known cycling name (PHINNEY).
    
    	If you want to checkout Nashua Velo Club, talk to Ron at
    	Goodales (603-882-2111).
    
    	Scott

    Jerry,
    
    GS Crono :== Gruppo Sportivo Crono
    
    ed

Ed,    
   
    > GS Crono :== Gruppo Sportivo Crono
    
    
    	I gave them the benifit of the doubt.....I actually
    thought the GS part was my cousin Gerry Smith.  I think 
    we'll have a fight on our hands if we open a bike shop 
    in Nashua called G.S.Crono :^)
    
    						_Gerry
    P.S.
    	Whats a sportivo and do they actually have monthly
    club sportivo meetings or is the time trial their only
    social function?

< Note 1290.4 by GSFSWS::JSMITH "Support Bike Helmets for Kids" >
                        -< Gerry Smith's Sportivo Fumo >-

>    	Whats a sportivo and do they actually have monthly
>    club sportivo meetings or is the time trial their only
>    social function?

GS Crono has Monday night race training rides from Puritan Press on 111 in 
Hollis.  Haven't been to one in awhile so I don't know how well attened they 
are.  The largest I attended had about 10 riders, mostly women.

The Wed night TT is also at Puritan Press.  The Club Championships are this 
week, and I think next week is the last tt for the season :^(

They have a club banquet during the winter.  And that's about all.

Kevin

    I have been told that Gruppo Sportivo translates to Sporting Group.
    
    ed

>>GS Crono has Monday night race training rides from Puritan Press on 111 in 
>>Hollis.  Haven't been to one in awhile so I don't know how well attened they 
>>are.  The largest I attended had about 10 riders, mostly women.
    
     Kevin,
    
    		Sounds like my kind of pace line :-)  Are they mostly
    Puritan's :-) :-) :-)
    
    					_Jerry

    Jerry, you know that pace line:  Linda, Lisa, Amy, Karen, and a few
    others.  Do you really want to let them blow your socks off on Mondays,
    too?
    
    ed

    re. -1
    
    		ooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww !!!!
    
    						_Jerry

I like to bike just for fun, not racing, at a leisurely rate of about 
8-12 mph.   Does anyone know of any low-key bike clubs in the southern N.H.
or northern MASS area that do 15-30 mile rides on weekends?  I live in 
Londonderry, NH and work in Maynard, MA.
		Thanks,
			Heather (non-racer)

reply to 3113.5:

Team Bonk has a pretty mellow ride on Monday nights from Tony's Bicycles, 101a
in Nashua (exit 8).  We go about 25 miles at 16-18 mph.  There are a few people
that hang back to 'push' on the hills.  We used to leave at 530, but thats
slipped to about 6 now that its light later.  the ride takes about 1 1/2 hours.

--roger

    We go about 25 miles at 16-18 mph
    
    	this doesn't sund mellow to me

That is mellow.  Average heart rate ~120-130.  We just go out and spin the
cranks around.  A few hills on rts. 122 and 130 in Hollis.  It is a "recovery"
ride after the weekend's racing.

If you want a non-mellow ride, try the Tuesday night ride in Hudson (get in
touch with me for details) -- 35 miles of rolling hills, Cat 3,4,5 and
occasionally a 2, racers, done inside 1:30 most nights (22.5 - 23.5 MPH)  Heart
rate routinely >175, averages around 160-165 (for me, mind you).


Tim

RE: <<< Note 1290.13 by UHUH::LUCIA "http://asaab.zko.dec.com/~lucia/biography.html" >>>

>That is mellow.  Average heart rate ~120-130.

Mellow for a fit cyclist, Tim. Would your Mother or neighbor etc. consider it
mellow? Probably not.
						-- Tom

    Sorry Tim I have to agree with Tom on this one.  I would even say that
    16-18 mph is more than mellow for a "fit" cyclists.  It really depends
    on the kind of riding your used to.  Here is my very scientifically 
    produced chart so that the racing types can keep in perspective
    what the rest of world does:
    
     8-12 mph:  beginning cyclist that has done a little excercise
    12-16 mph:  recreational cyclist thats in moderate shape
    16-18 mph:  recreational cyclist in decent shape
    18-20 mph:  fast recreational cyclist in good shape
    20-22 mph:  if not racing then a recreational rider with a sick mind.
    22-		you know who you are and I dont like you for being faster
    than me (Tim :-)!
     
    So there you have it. Try to move up and the ride is not mellow
    ...speaking from personal experience.
    
    -L 

    One point to mention is that 16-18 in a pack is not
    16-18 by ones self.  I have averaged 20 by myself 
    in my 25 mile commute home, which was a very hard ride.
    But the same effort in a pack will yield in the 23
    range.
    
    Trying to find a group ride thats less then 16-18 
    usually means money raising rides.
    
    Still the best way to get better is to jump in and 
    do it.  I will at times do the fast Tuesday night 
    ride that leaves Hollis High even though I know that
    I will get shelled once we hit the hills.  This ride 
    averages in the 22 range and my goal is to hang on 
    as long as I can.
    
    Hey us lowly cat 5's need to train some where.  Of
    course you find that even Cat 5 races are obscenely
    fast so you need to push yourself on those club rides.
    
    Scott

    
    re .15:  How many people are doing that ride these days?
    
    Jim

    hmmmmm, we do 15-18 on the road on our mountain bikes with spurts in the
    20's according to my handly little computer.  I don't think I could
    sustain 20+ for very long but, on a skinny tired bike it seems that it
    should be reasonable to do similar if not faster average speeds for
    longer durations.  
    
    Brian

    re: .16 
    
    I absolutely agree.  The best way to improve is to ride with better
    riders and try to hang in there.   It really helps to set a baseline
    that you can use when your not with a group too.
    -Larry

There are a lot of variables.  What I consider my personal best solo effort was
a 25 mile ITT, with rolling hills, at 22.5 mph.  Last year, the same course with
4 other riders in a pack yielded 22.5 mph.  I've done 23.5 over rolling hills in
a pack of 12 cat 3/4/5 racers.  I did Sunapee RR at about the same speed.  I've
done crits (FLAT) at over 26 mph (for 24 miles), so there is a lot of variance. 
I think anyone who rides 500+ miles a year can consider 16mph mellow if flat. 
As we all know, every mph is twice as hard as the one before it, thanks to wind
resistance.  16 mph in a pack is pretty mellow.  On hilly terrain by yourself,
it is less so.  The original post said 
"group ride", i.e., paceline.  We ride
at the slowest rider's pace (or some portion of us do.)

If you want to improve, ride with better riders.  My Tuesday night ride
obliterated me the first few times, then on the good days, I can not get
dropped.  I'm working towards not ever getting dropped, but I'm still a ways
off.  Yet, if Lance Armstrong came with us, he would probably think it was
mellow.

Tim

Tim, I don't think 500 miles a year is very much. If you look at a 
season (April through September - just for yucks) a 500 mile season
adds up to a little more than 20 miles a week which is really
nothing. Certainly not any plan to hang with competitive or even
serious recreational riders.

For my money, if you're going to get serious about riding well and
improving, you do need miles although the amount is not as important
as the quality. My guess is that most serious riders are putting 
anywhere between 120 - 180 miles week. I generally get at least 
150 diverse miles, e.g. TT, long hard rides with intervals and
sprints, long moderates and short moderate to hard. This is where
the gains can be had, not the long, slow, droning miles.

Chip

I  didn't say 500 was enough to be competitive.  I said 500 was enough that you
could do 16mph on a flat course (for an hour) and not be totally beat up about
it.

-1 ya think?

    I couldn't right now.  And I've been unable to ride much more that
    250 this year,

At the risk of beating a dead horse:

RE: <<< Note 1290.20 by UHUH::LUCIA "http://asaab.zko.dec.com/~lucia/biography.html" >>>

>The original post said "group ride", i.e., paceline.

I would not equate group to paceline, if by paceline one assumes a gap between
successive riders of a couple of feet or less. From what I've seen, most casual
riders don't ride like this together.

I would hate to see a casual rider, expecting a moderate effort, getting rudely
surprised on their first group ride, if that ride is with a bunch of
recreational/serious cyclists who are out for an easy spin that turns out to
leave the rider panting and dropped. The abilities and physical tolerances of a
racer (which I was for a few years) are simply different than those of casual
riders. 

For instance, I think that my wife (who is an exercise instructor, but doesn't
cycle much) would end up quite tired if she were to follow along with me on one
of my easy commute rides (16-18 MPH average speed). A moderate pace for me
is too much for her. When we've ridden together, I often find her way off the
back, even tough I'm almost always sitting up, freewheeling or softpedaling.
This is especially true with hills of almost any size.
						-- Tom

    I recall "racer" friends used to wonder why they couldn't meet women...
    as they blitz by at 22mph.  Fortunately for them, the numbers of women
    racers are increasing these days.
    
    steve

Okay, your standards vary.  Roger started this by saying mellow.  Roger is a Cat
3 racer.  Roger's mellow is not as mellow as my mellow, if you get my drift.  I
am a Cat V with about 6 races under my belt.  I have ALWAYS made sure that a new
person in any of our group rides understands before we leave:

1. We will or will not [whichever] wait if you get dropped, or we will wait at
spot XXX.
2. How to get home, where they are, etc.
3. I have hung back on numerous rides in order to not drop someone

I know from experience, that if I get dropped, I will come back harder.

As for group != paceline, well, most "group" rides I have ever done splinter
into small packs of 2 or 3 and occasional single riders, within a mile or two.  
Make sure you know in advance whether it is a paceline, or group ride. 
"training" rides tend to be full of racers, but not always.  Especially true if
it is put on by a racing club.  Then, they are somewhere between a paceline ride
and a race, i.e., there are some paceliners, some attackers, etc.


Again, Tom, your "casual" and my "casual" probably don't exactly overlap.  Try
it, if you like it, can hang in there, try again.  If not, go somewhere else. 
Very simple.  Like clothes shoppping, try it on, if it fits wear it, otherwise
put it back on the rack.

Tim

RE: <<< Note 1290.27 by UHUH::LUCIA "http://asaab.zko.dec.com/~lucia/biography.html" >>>

>Roger started this by saying mellow.

Yes, but Roger's first reply in this note was spawned by 3113.5, which was
entered by what I percieved to be a non-racer cyclist. Roger's reply and your
subsequent reply about 16-18 MPH rides being mellow are based on a racer's
background. There seemed to me to be a disconnect between that background and
3113.5's presumed background. I've been just trying to point out that
difference in background. 
						-- Tom

The Granite State Wheelmen have a ride out of Nashua High School on Mondays
at 6 pm for riders that average between 13-15 mph for about 26 miles.

You can contact the ride leaders Joe Neumeister (vmssg::neumeister) or Nancy
Dionne (wasted::dionne).

I went to the Monday night ride from Tony's Cyclery.  Let's put this into
perpective -- I'm old enough to be the father of most of those riders and I'm
not in the best of shape.  I do recreational riding, but I haven't raced in
over 20 years.  My road bike, however, is competitive but not impressive.

The starting pace of the 33 mile ride was fine, about 15-20 mph in a pack. I
stayed with the pack for the first 30 minutes as we took some long flats and a
few minor hills. The pace picked up considerably going down one of the hills
and I would estimate we touched 25+ mph at times. Then we hit the long uphill
on Route 122 going south just before Hollis Center. The pack zipped up that
hill and I just died. No one even looked back or commented that I was having
trouble, they just continued ahead out of site.  After walking for a while, I
pedaled home and had my wife take me to get my car from Tony's. 

When they say this ride is an easy ride, it's easy for those who race and train
hard.  If it had been flat, I could have done the whole ride with very little
trouble.  The one thing that irked me a little is that no one said "hello,
welcome to the ride" and no one cared that I was even on the ride.  It was a
very cliquey group.  I would not recommend except for those who have a
competitive road bike and who ride a lot every week. 

Jim 

Jim,

This does not sound at all right.  How many were wearing the Team Bonk (Images)
jersey?  The loop is 27 miles, not 33, and they are supposed to wait for
stragglers.  Occasionally, a group wants to hammer and they end up way off the
front by themselves.  I've not gone in a while because I haven't been able to
afford the extra hour out of my day (to get to Tony's and back), but it doesn't
sound right.  Most of the time people introduce themselves.  Some times they
don't, but mostly they do.

Tim

There were 4 or 5 with the Team Bonk (Images) yellow jerseys. I thought it was
in the high 20's for mileage, but I asked one guy how long it was and he told
me 33 miles.  Everyone in the group seemed to know each other and they were
all discussing race things like breaking chains, buying numbers to get in at
the last minute, etc.  I tried to talk to some of them, but they really wanted
to talk to their friends.

Jim

Well, you were at the right ride.  The first time I went, it seemed a bit
cliquey to me (last year).  Less so now, since I am on the team.  It depends a
lot on who goes.  I suggest you give it another try.  Let me know and I'll look
for you, introduce you to folks, etc.  Racers are a little bit too serious about
some things.  It's almost comical.  Just ask Chip "I have titanium knees" G. :-)

You are also welcome to come out with us at lunch on MWF from ZKO.  We wait on
MWF and tend (but not always) to ride easier than Tu/Th.

Tim

How long is the ride from ZKO?

Jim

Okay Jim, 

The next Beginners ride with the Granite State Wheelmen that I know of is
scheduled for August 11th at 10:00 A.M. leaving from the Alvirne High School
on Route 102 in Hudson, NH.

By the sounds of your skill level in note, 1290.30, you should find this ride
quite easy! I'll probably still be at the back of the pack... but not for long
if I can help it. Unless Tinkerbell comes along and fixes things, it'll take me
a little while to build up my leg/back/glut muscles.

;^)

I think you already read my writeup in note 3113, so you know this Beginners
Ride is a friendly group. If you holler out for 'Sue' in the parking lot, I'll
be sure and say hello!!!  Hope to see you there!

If you need directions to Alvirne High, just give me a holler at DTN 264-0833.