Conference noted::bicycle

    
    Over July 4th I rode with someone who was trying to evaluate
    Exceed (since they are sponsoring her in RAAM).  Its consistency
    is fairly syrupy, yes.  She seemed to be doing fine with it, but
    we did stop for a cheeseburger one day and a baked potato another. :-)
    It's worth a try.
    
    	-john
    
    PS: Couldn't you consider ice cream as liquid nutriment as well?

>    	On the advise of a friend, I have bought some Exceed drink mix.
>    	I mixed some up (one packet to a quart, as instructed) and let
>    it chill.  I tried a 1/2 glass of it from the 'frig - yick! It was
>    very thick and syrup-ey.  I don't think I'd like it when warm.

Hmmm. I tried a can of Exceed a while back and it didn't seem syrupy to 
me. Great on pancakes, too :-). It's been a while, but I remeber it as 
being about the same as ERG. I don't have a regular supplier (got the 
eval. package via mailorder) so I can't retest very easily.

What SEEMS to be the case is that EXCEED is not just one drink, though, 
but 2 different drinks - in very similar-looking packages. One is an 
electrolyte replacement/sugar drink, and the other is a 
carbohydrate-loading drink or something. Perhaps you got the wrong one 
by mistake?
                                         ken

    It is heavy, although it is not a problem (in my stomach).  I think
    you drank too much at one time, when I use it when riding, I just
    take sips through the ride.  Follow with some water.
    
    steve 

     Try GATORADE & water (50-50). It's not too sweet, no consistency
    problems. Let's face it, after 50 miles in the bottle on a hot
    summer day there isn't much that's gonna be appealing when your
    throat's screamin' for something.
    
    CHIP :-)

These "energy" drinks are quite controversial among doctors.

Some that I have heard advise plain water but add that if you really 
want to drink them to be sure to dilute first.

	~Mike

[about to leave for a 2 1/2 week cycling trip down the coast of
Oregon and Northern California] 

    	re. .2   Ken, you may have hit it.  I got the carbo-loading
    stuff.  I didn't know there was a replacement/sugar version.  But,
    come to think of it, the stuff in my friend's waterbottle was amber
    in color and this stuff is greenish.
    	Anyone know for sure if there's two kinds of Exceed? Or are
    there just two different flavors?  If there are two kinds, 
    I'll try the other.  Meanwhile, I'll dilute what I got. - Chris

    Yes, Diane mentioned that as well.  It sounds like you want the
    electrolyte kind.  If you are trying to do l-o-n-g distance on a
    liquid diet, however, you want the carbo-loading one.  The other
    may not be syrupy but it won't do you much good if you're trying
    to live on it.  The kind I tried must have been the carbo-loading
    one.
    
    My personal electrolyte-disruption drink is still cola, drunk
    straight, then followed by some water a couple miles further on
    down, once the carbon dioxide has blown off.  And ... now seriously,
    I've actually run into other cyclists who said they favored cola
    even before I mentioned it.
    
    -john

There's 3 kinds of Exceed

High Carbo Source.   Glucose Polymers, Fructose and maltodextrin about 
80 gms of Carbo per 8oz and about 200 calories.  This is about 20%+ solution 
too much for "on the ride" replacement.  It is think and syrupy.

Energy replacement.  Glucose Polymers (Polycose) etc about 70 calories per cup 
and 7% solution.  This is about the max recommended concentration.

Nutrition Supplement.  This is a shake style drink is a repackaged version of
a hospital drink that they sold for people that couldn't eat solid food.  It's
got fat and protein in it.

Gatorade is a little less sophisticated, in that is doesn't has as much fancy
carbohydrates in it, and TODAY's (not tomorrow's or yesterday's) info says that 
the long-chained polymers don't really matter.  It has 50 calories per 8oz and 
is in about 5% solution.  I wouldn't water down Gatorade and expect to get much 
out of it.  @25 calories per cup, you're not getting much carbohydrate into your
system.  1 bottle per hour would supply you with about 150 calories, so you 
might still want to supplement with some solid food.

There's a million of these products in health food stores, and they're all 
rather expensive and relatively similar.  I'd say stick with the product that
best matches your palatte and wallet.  If you're going to do a race that is 
supplying a specific drink, you might as well train with it.

I'm drinking Gatorade now at full strength.  It seems to work well.  I've also 
been experimenting with the high carbo drinks in the morning before the race 
because I have problems eating a decent breakfast at 5AM.

JD

    I experimented with EXCEED last year.  I used the electrolyte
    replacement powder (orange flavor) for short rides (<50mi) and the
    carbo loader for longer rides.  Although they both seemed to work
    for me I found that the cost and availability (not in your local 7-11) 
    of the electrolyte drink didn't give me any more of a boost than what
    I get from GATORADE (full strength) so I stopped using it since I can
    get GATORADE virtually anywhere, and, if I forget my water bottle
    entirely I've found that there small bottle fits nicely in a water
    bottle holder (to bad they aren't plastic bottles - marketing could
    go wild with this - disposable water bottles for cyclist on the run
    or would that be wheel).  I also discontinued using the Carbo product
    which also helped me (mostly because I'm not doing the distance this
    year) but the best product I've tried in this category is ULTRA ENERGY.
    If I'm serious enough to want to use something besides bagels and fig
    bars on a very long ride I'll spend the bucks and buy UE since I can
    easily get another 30 miles in without bonking, than when using the
    traditional stuff or EXCEED Carbo.  
    
    A lot of the Ultra Marathoners have their own concoctions which they
    mix up from ingredients purchased in Natural Food stores (Joe Weider
    Energy Products, etc.) but everyone has to find what works best for them.  
    
    For price and availability you can't beat GATORADE straight from the 
    grocers fridge for short rides.
    						Jerry
    

    Gatorade may not be the ultimate electrolyte replacement drink,
    but I can find it in little mom and pop stores in places like
    Dogliani, Italy!  It's about twice as expensive here as in the
    U.S., but still cheap for what it can do for you at the end of
    a tough ride.
    
    MATT

BTW, for those what like Gatorade green flavor (melon-lime) it's avail. 
in powdered format and comes in at about 1/2 price (can about 1/2 size 
of a 1 lb. coffee can, makes 8 qts., about $3.50 i think?). Available 
wherever powdered Gatorade is sold!
                                                   ken

    
    Like at REI in Cupertino, CA. 
    
    -bob, stocking up on envelopes of dry gatorate to take behind the
     Iron Curtain..

    There are a couple of good articles in this month's CYCLING magazine
    on drink mixes/ratios and training in the heat.
    
      Chip  :-)

    When I rode the Charles River Wheelmen spring century this year, I
    stopped for some Gatorade at a grocery store out in the the southern 
    exurbs of Boston.  I'd been drinking water and eating fruit, granola, etc, 
    but was becoming fatigued and a little disoriented by the sun and heat.  

    I can't say I like the taste of Gatorade (I've a similar reaction to 
    freeze dried food), but it provided a nice boost to finish the ride.

I also use the powdered Gatorade, its cheap and easy and I get right in the
supermarket.

Little hint:
    Save your old 35mm film canisters to hold your gatorade mix on long rides. 
    Each one is perfect for one bottle.  Remember to wash out the canisters
    first bacause they stink.

    re: -1
    
    	Great suggestion ....you should send it to CYCLIST.....they'll send
    you a $25 reward and a tee shirt :-)
    
    	Better yet...send it to General Mills and tell them they should
    package the stuff in similar containers that we could buy off the
    shelf in the super market.....hmmmmmmmmm wonder if they came out
    with a six pack....think Coors would be in trouble ;-)
    						
    						Jerry

Actually, I admit it, I like Exceed.  I mix it to taste rather than
what the package says and try to keep it strong to get more sugar.
Also, I found it in a Safeway in Colorado Springs cheap.  So, maybe
just ask your local supermarket why they don't carry it ;^).

Russ

    In a race this past weekend, I knew I wasn't going to finish in
    earthshattering times of 31 to 38 hours so I elected to avoid any
    of the expensive solutions and consume FOOD for energy replacement.
    
    FOOD has a number of advantages missing in the more expensive
    solutions.  The most desirable is variety.   The following is an
    estimate of what I consumed between 5am Friday and 9 am Sunday
    when I finished -- the race started at 6 am.
    
    3 pancakes approximate 6", bisquick complete, before the ride.
    12 to 14 peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches.
    3 or 4 turkey sandwiches
    1 turkey and cheese s/w
    2 large dishes of pasta with tomato sauce
    a bowl of lentil soup
    40 or so granola bars, I think these led to some rough spots in my
    mouth, orange juice yesterday morning burned.
    a dozen or so bananas
    about 6 cups of coffee
    about 6 cans of diet coke
    a dozen or so cookies of various types, once I even ate a few
    cookies just because my computer needed the plastic bag, it was
    raining, then I said the hell with it I can't read the computer at
    night anyway
    two dozen or so nuprin or aspirin for the road rash I got in (2 every 4
    hours, more or less)
    another race the night before this race
    6 french toast with butter and syrup
    7 gallons of water, more or less.
    
    elapsed time 50:46, 3:35 better than last year. I should have done even
    better because I finished with lots of energy, too much in fact.
    
    But, I guess if you want really good performance you have to lay out
    the bucks for fancy stuff.
    
    After the race I found some lasagna and ordered two servings.  they
    were both consumed in only a few minutes, then I looked around for
    something to eat.
    
    ed

    re. -1
>    2 large dishes of pasta with tomato sauce
>    a bowl of lentil soup
    
    Ok, I'll go along with the other stuff, but how do you get
    these two in your mouth while keeping one hand on the bars?
    
    Sounds like you could use one of those Cannondale Buggers
    as a chuck wagon.....self contained no less with a propane
    stove for your pancakes and a porta-potty for your long
    distance events ;-)
    					Jerry

    I got off the bike a few times, even slept for 2:15.
    
    50:46 is a heck of a lot of time for the HBI to endure.
    
    ed

>>    3 pancakes approximate 6", bisquick complete, before the ride.
>>    12 to 14 peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches.
>>    3 or 4 turkey sandwiches
>>    1 turkey and cheese s/w    ...............etc.
      
>>    elapsed time 50:46, 3:35 better than last year. I should have done even
>>    better because I finished with lots of energy, too much in fact.
    
    
    ed,

	All that for a 25K time trial? No wonder it took so long ;-)

	Tom

    "25K"
    
    haha.
    
    ed

    Speaking of drinks, does anyone know whats in the little brown bottles
    the PRO's use? I saw Laurent Fignon drinking one a few days ago in
    the Tdf. 

< Note 1240.18 by NOVA::FISHER "Rdb/VMS Dinosaur" >
                                 -< try FOOD >-

I think I'll have to agree with Ed.  After having tried virtually every 
high-carbo, high-zoot energy drink and having mixed results (some good, some 
extreme intestinal distress) I've returned to full strength Gatorade and FOOD.

I've had trouble with dehydration during long events using high-carbo drinks, 
possibly because they usually contain no potassium (and bananas don't set well 
with me when riding).  During my 24-hr TT last weekend (323m ridden) I 
consumed over a gallon of Gatorade, 2 spaghetti dinners, 2 turkey and cheese 
sandwiches, a couple PBJ sandwiches, 1/2 PowerBar and lots of water.  Had no 
trouble with dehydration (tho it wasn't very hot) or lack of energy.  (tho I 
did nap briefly on the bike and saw all kinds of creatures that weren't really 
there at about 20hrs into the ride).

BTW, Gatorade comes in several different flavors to provide variety.  I used 
the powdered stuff mentioned earlier since its less expensive.

Kevin

    For those of you who use these carbo drinks, do you use them 
    primarily as a substitute for eating on long rides? or more as an
    energy boost/food supplement?
    
    	-Nancy

< Note 1240.25 by WITNES::HANNULA "At a loss for words" >


>    For those of you who use these carbo drinks, do you use them 
>    primarily as a substitute for eating on long rides? or more as an
>    energy boost/food supplement?

My original intention was to use them as a substitute for food in long races, 
ala the RAAM riders using Ultra-Energy.  So I tried all the very high-carbo 
drinks (400+ cals/bottle) I could find, except U-E, which at $6 or more per
bottle is impossibly expensive.  U-E was designed as a food substitute for use
WHILE riding, while all the others are food supplements not for use while
riding. 

As I said before, I had mixed results with those drinks, and am now using 
Gatorade, water and some food while on the bike and lots of food at breaks. 
With this combo I've done my best ultra ride ever, without any hint of
digestive, intestinal or dehydration problems.  However, the jury's still
out... I'll have to test it some more before I'm convinced. 

Kevin