Conference noted::bicycle

    Well, if you waded through .0, you've got a bit of information.  The
    question is how do I improve?
    
    I've gone from the point 2 months ago where a 3 mile ride at 8 mph was
    totally exhausting.  And I mean totally.
    
    I"m up to the point now where I can do 15 or 20 miles at an average of
    12 mph or so, and feel good at the end.
    
    What is the best way to improve endurance and speed?  I'd like to get
    to the point where I can ride some of the organized rides they have
    here - 25, 50, even 100 miles.  But, I'm not quite sure how to get from
    here to there.  So, how, when, how long, how much, etc, to keep working
    on getting into shape?  I've read some other notes in this notes file
    but they seem to focus on racing.  How about endurance?
    
    thanks

    Hey, it sounds like you're doing great already!  Your new bike will
    also give you an incentive.  Work on getting your mileage up; don't
    be bashful of joining one of those 25 mile organized rides soon
    (assuming that it's not a racing club practice ride!).  

    Though you're not interested in racing, I know a lot of recreational
    riders who participate in weekly time trials.  This is an excellent way
    to gauge your progress, and to push yourself a little.  You'll be
    amazed as you watch your average speeds climb.
    
    Another recommendation would be a heart monitor.  Your physique
    is changing fast, and you aren't accustomed to aerobic exercise.
    A heart monitor will help keep you in that ideal range where you're
    getting the maximum benefit from your rides.  Some outfit in your
    area sells them mailorder for good prices.  (Could somebody who
    knows the details point out the note?)  One drawback: they're still
    expensive....
    
    Thanks for sharing your success story,
    
    MATT

    .2 is right. You'll need to build on your mileage. The first step
    is always address the cardio-vascular system. Work on endurance
    first. I wouldn't worry about building to mega-miles unless you
    get into to that stuff. You don't have to train with 60-70 miles
    to do 25-50 mile rides. In fact, if those are your targets 20-25
    milers are fine to train with. 
    
     Building ground speed is different. Just piling miles on will only
    bring you to a certain point and then you'll just be good at doing
    a lot of miles at a consistent pace. What you'll need to do is some
    structured workouts for a while. These can be regulated by the ground
    speeds you wish to achieve/maintain. Speedwork once a week (high-revs
    with short busrts 20-30 seconds with maybe 10 sets). Then intervals
    (more spinning (95-102 rpm's at about 80% of your capacity for 1
    to 2 minutes - build on getting to 2 minutes with about 10 sets)
    And, if you really want to get tough, throw in some hill work. What's
    hill work? That's right, look for some hills and do 'em. What's
    nice about these is you only have to do each one once a week but
    make sure that you take a day off in between or do a very easy ride
    in between. I've used this and I'll guarantee that within 4-6 weeks
    of diligent execution you'll see a minimum of a 10% improvement.
    
     Sounds like a miracle, but it really works. But by all means, make
    sure you're having fun. After all, a sport turned into work becomes
    a memory very quickly.
    
       Have fun,
    
    
                Chip

>    north of Minnesota!  I personally always figured that exercise as in
>    running was something that you got when being chased by a large hairy
>    animal or mugger!

	Speaking of chased by a large hairy animal, pick up the tape
	"American Flyers." Great scene where two brothers are going
	out for a training ride with `Eddie.' (Make sure your shoes
    	are on real tight!)

>    Oh, yeah... one more thing!  When I started riding 8 weeks ago, I
>    weighed 304 pounds.  So far, I've lost 39 pounds and 4 inches.  My goal
>    is 204 and if I can keep riding instead of eating I'll make it.

	Hey, I think I found an aspiring cyclist who is actually
	heavier than I am.
    
    	Mr. Perez, keep up the good work.

	Scott    
        

    Your body is undergoing incredible changes but you know that.  I don't
    want to scare you (or maybe I do, really)  GET A MEDICAL CHECKUP from
    a doctor who understands exercise, it's affects and it needs.  Our bike
    club has had 4 deaths in the past two years, 3 were on club rides.  All
    were cardio-pulmonary.  There were various factors involved but it does
    not make us feel good about "men getting into shape"  even though
    that's just what many of us have done ourselves -- well, let's say that
    half of us took up biking to get into shape.
    
    If your doctor says, "With all that biking it sounds like you're doing
    great." and does not check you too thoroughly, you're in the wrong
    place.
    
    After your checkup, as you build up, remember moderation (this advice
    from an ultramarathoner).  Build up gradually.  In any given week do
    not do more than 10% more than what you have done in any previous
    recent week.  If you do overextend (30%) one week, back off the next
    week -- forget the 30% week -- and apply the 10% week to some recent
    previous high.   
    
    The reason for this is that your muscles can become up to 3 times
    stronger than their idle-non-exercised flabby state over a period of
    a year but the connective tissues, tendons and ligaments will take up
    to two years to do the same, though they can ultimately improve
    themselves by about 5 times (over their couch potato states).  SO if
    you overextend yourself when your muscles have gotten rapidly stronger
    but before your tendons have caught up you wil start to do damage.
    
    I made up the bit with the 10% & 30% adapting general advice that is easily
    found and applying observed behaviorisms of cycling addicts.
    
    By the way you don't seem to have bought an aero seat post yet?
    
    ed
      

    Does anyone have a definition of "cadence"?
    
    I know it's proportional to crank RPM, and should be about 90, but:
    
    	is it EQUAL to crank RPM ?
    
    	is it LEG EXTENSIONS (count only one leg) per minute?
    
    	is it LEG EXTENSIONS (count both legs) per minute?
    
    
    -Bill 

    	is it EQUAL to crank RPM ?
    
    >>yes.
    
    	is it LEG EXTENSIONS (count only one leg) per minute?
    
    >>yes.  Except that you cannot count extra extensions used for kicking
    at roadside barking pests.
    
    -ed-who-does-not-want-to-start-another-discussion-by-saying-the-d-word-

I'll second the motion about building up slowly. At the beginning of
this year I started right off doing 20 miles rides and pushing too hard.
I did keep my cadence up but just went out too hard. I ended up 
reinjuring an old back injury. I have spent the last two months
first healing and now slowly building my mileage and speed up. 
I am now only back to the point where I started the season. I have made
numerous adjustments to my bike and am working now on hills and more
speed. The funny thing is that I am enjoying riding a lot more
since I am only pushing myself to my ability. At this point I'm not
too concerned with doing time trials or such. I just want to get out there
and go. Enjoy youself and keep it up and keep it fun.

Mano

    re .7 
     You kick roadside democrats. What a novel idea!

    The previous replies are excellent, and yours (.0) is one of the
    most heartening stories I've heard in a long time.  You've done
    very well so far - just listen to the previous advice.  The medical
    checkup is a good idea.  As far as training and pushing yourself,
    try to balance calmly extending your capacities (mileage, speed)
    by yourself, with moderate challenges like 10-25 mile club rides.
    I think you'll find that by riding with others, you learn some good
    techniques, and you'll find out how well you're already doing!
    
    Good going!
    
    -john

    re .0
     I wasn't trying to ignore you yesterday. What you are doing is
    great. At times it's discouraging when you don't think you are getting
    any better. But, if you take it easy as stated in previous responses
    it's a sport, and god forbid, an exercise you will grow to love. 

    Sorry for being disorganized.  I see I have intermittent questions all
    mixed in here.
    
     re .2:
    
>    Your new bike will
>    also give you an incentive.  Work on getting your mileage up; don't
>    be bashful of joining one of those 25 mile organized rides soon
>    (assuming that it's not a racing club practice ride!).  

    Boy, is that the truth!  I have been out a couple more times for little
    rides after work.  This thing is wonderful.  I read a ton of notes in
    here about the difference a well-fitted, decent frame can make...  You
    folks were DEFINITELY NOT blowing smoke.
    
    Its difficult to describe, but I noticed a huge difference tonight
    while riding a very  twisty bike path through the woods.  Suddenly, the
    bike feels much more controllable, solid, and responsive.  It gives you
    a lot of confidence when going through a set of sharp downhill curves.
    
>    riders who participate in weekly time trials.  This is an excellent way
>    to gauge your progress, and to push yourself a little.  You'll be
>    amazed as you watch your average speeds climb.
    
    I have a friend that I ride with sometimes that performs the same
    function for me.  He is in much better shape and pushes me to sensibly
    increase my average speed...  and also makes sure I cool down at the
    end with a little spinning in a lower gear.  Its a good thing someone
    is out there to provide adult supervision :-)!
    
>    Another recommendation would be a heart monitor.  Your physique
>    is changing fast, and you aren't accustomed to aerobic exercise.
>    A heart monitor will help keep you in that ideal range where you're
>    getting the maximum benefit from your rides.  
    
    I've thought about this.  If it is a reasonable thing to do, I'm not
    adverse to investing in something that will provide useful information. 
    I thought I"ve seen these that go on the wrist like a watch.  Am I
    right?  That seems like it would be much more convenient than the ones
    with the chest strap.  Is a monitor a good idea?  What is a good one to
    buy?
    
    
    re .3:
    
>    And, if you really want to get tough, throw in some hill work. What's
>    hill work? That's right, look for some hills and do 'em. What's
>    nice about these is you only have to do each one once a week but
>    make sure that you take a day off in between or do a very easy ride
>    in between. I've used this and I'll guarantee that within 4-6 weeks
>    of diligent execution you'll see a minimum of a 10% improvement.
    
    I'll have to start trying the measured workouts.  But, I have one
    question...  ARE YOU ALL MASOCHISTS?  AM I?  I laughed when I read in
    here about people going looking for hills.  On purpose.  To CLIMB!
    And yet, last night I found myself looking forward to the hills on my
    rides...  They provide a very quick gauge of improvement.  I have one
    about a mile from home that I've tried twice.  Once about 5 weeks ago
    (made it about 25% of the way up and damn near died) and once last week
    and made it about half way with only moderate discomfort.  Next week,
    who knows!
    

>	Hey, I think I found an aspiring cyclist who is actually
>	heavier than I am.
    
    Probably!  But, last night I had to go buy a new pair of shorts...  The
    old ones were literally FALLING OFF.  Does anybody make a touring type 
    short that comes in large sizes like 42?  The shops I've checked with
    here only go up to 38".
    
    
    re .5:
    
>    GET A MEDICAL CHECKUP from
>    a doctor who understands exercise, it's affects and it needs.  
    
    Well, another voice is now added to the chorus of wife, parents,
    friends, etc... DAMN!  In the last 15 years, the only times I've been
    near a doctor have been through the emergency room doors.  OK, OK,
    maybe I"ll just have to screw up my courage and go get checked out on
    purpose.  Without being unconscious!
    
>    Build up gradually.  In any given week do
>    not do more than 10% more than what you have done in any previous
>    recent week.  If you do overextend (30%) one week, back off the next
>    week -- forget the 30% week -- and apply the 10% week to some recent
>    previous high.   
    
    This matches pretty closely with what I've been doing.  My wife rides
    somewhat slower than I.  When I ride alone, I push and average several
    mph faster than when I'm with her.  I try to mix things so I get some
    15-20 mile solo rides with some 6-10 mile rides with her.  
    
    BTW:  I've neglected her a bit, but the improvements in my wife have
    been radical.  She has gone from averaging 6 MPH for about 5 miles and
    collapsing at the end to easily doing 8-10 miles at 10+ mph and having
    the energy to walk around the rose garden afterwards.  She has lots
    more energy and is getting into better shape.
    
>    The reason for this is that your muscles can become up to 3 times
>    stronger than their idle-non-exercised flabby state over a period of
>    a year but the connective tissues, tendons and ligaments will take up
>    to two years to do the same, though they can ultimately improve
>    themselves by about 5 times (over their couch potato states). 
    
    In this light, I have noticed that all the local shops have trainers on
    sale.  I've been thinking about winter with regard to getting a mag
    trainer or something.  Good idea?  Is there a better way to go?  I'm
    scared to death that when the long winters night settles in, I'll go
    back to being a total slug and lose everything I gain this summer.
    
>    By the way you don't seem to have bought an aero seat post yet?
    
    Well, I wanted to!  I remembered the note about how EVERY bike has to
    have something Campy on it!  I desperately wanted the Campy aero seat
    post... until I looked at the price!  I opted for a good quality alloy
    post that works great.  Is it allowable that I got the Campy WATER
    BOTTLE instead!  Besides, I DO NOT have an aero body!  I'm built for
    comfort not for speed.  So, the aero post seemed a little superfluous!
    But, maybe in about 25 pounds?
    
    
    re .8:
    
    >this year I started right off doing 20 miles rides and pushing too
    >hard. I did keep my cadence up but just went out too hard. I ended up 
    >reinjuring an old back injury. 
    
    Well, I was lucky there.  When I started I was pushing tall gears WAY
    too hard.  Within a week I started having the morning stiffness in my
    right knee.  I could feel it right under the top of the kneecap while
    riding with a cadence of 20 (only sort of facetious), and I'd spend the
    next day or two hobbling around with a leg that wouldn't support me. 
    Thank goodness I started reading here and found out I should be using
    smaller gears and spinning faster.  
    
    >I just want to get out there and go. Enjoy youself and keep it up and
    >keep it fun.

    So far, I'm having a ball finding the bike paths and parkways around
    the twin cities.  I tried jogging once about 10 years ago and this 
    beats the heck out of that!  It was boring and repetitive.  On my bike
    I get to cover lots of territory so it isn't boring.  There are lots of
    different places and directions to go so I get to see new things.  And,
    I can follow someones advice and 
    
    		"BICYCLE TO ICE CREAM!!!!!!!!!!"
    
    
    re .10:
    
>    try to balance calmly extending your capacities (mileage, speed)
>    by yourself, with moderate challenges like 10-25 mile club rides.
>    I think you'll find that by riding with others, you learn some good
>    techniques, and you'll find out how well you're already doing!
    
    Interestingly enough, the shop where I bought the frame has a ride
    every Wednesday night that runs about 20-25 miles.  They insist its an
    easy pace and lots of fun...  I want to get up to a decent speed over a
    20-25 mile distance on my own, then I think I'll give it a try.    
    
    Now, all I have to do is figure out how to handle the weather up here. 
    Its been 95-98 every day for the last week with no end in sight.  Its
    fine early in the morning on weekends, but riding after work is a
    little tough when its still 92 at 7 at night.  

    regarding the wind trainer:  Don't spend your whole winter training
    for next year.  Take a short break.  (2 wks off, 2 wks light training,
    perhaps).  Cross train, doing something else aerobic like cross country
    skiiing.  You won't suffer for it.  Then work out on the trainer
    together with your cross training.
    
    ed

    regarding the heat: 
    
    Try riding on roads that have been shaded most of the day (heavily
    wooded areas). These roads tend to be much cooler. That's how I
    handle these hot_humid_new_england_summer_daze ;^)
    
    Harry

    	RE: 1233.12
    
    	Actually, the chest strap and the "watch" are part of the
    	same package. I believe on some units you can mount the
    	watch part on the bars of the bike.
    
    	Scott (Yea, I'll probably get a heart monitor this winter)

Sounds great! Keep after it, cautiously, GET the CHECKUP!

Watch the heat carefully! In that part of the country, it's often fairly 
dry heat, and you can lose an incredible amount of water and electrolytes 
(the chemistry that keeps your nervous system ticking) in a short period 
without really noticing it! You can get pretty sick, pretty quick when 
it's that hot and dry. Start drinking BEFORE your ride and drink more 
than you want while riding, and continue when you're done. You'll feel 
much better and possibly avoid one of those unscheduled stops at the ER.
My preference is for the electrolytic replacement athletic drinks; 
favorites are E.R.G. and Exceed; Gator(gag)ade will do OK. Drink it as 
warm as you can stand it (an hour in your bottle oughta fix that...) 
because cold fluid tend to stress some folks' systems.

And.... have fun!
                                             ken

    RE: a couple back
    
    As far as winter fitness goes I cast my vote for rollers.  These
    things work in not only maintaining some degree of fitness in the
    off season, but in perfecting your pedaling technique too.  IMHO
    they are much better than wind trainers.
    
    Have fun, I enjoy reading your notes.
    
    Phil

re: .0

I guess I'm about 2 months behind you.  I need to get some exercise and lose
weight, so I decided to ride a bike.  It's encouraging to read your story
so I don't get discouraged.

I did my first ride Sunday.  3 miles and I was exhausted.

Took Monday off to cut the rest of the grass and rode again last night.  I
rode for about 35 minutes and went about 8 miles.  I'm concentrating on
getting my cadence down, and ignoring distance.  I don't even look at the
distance until I get home.

I'm going to be faced with the heat problem too.  I live in Dallas and
there is NO shade where I ride.  The road is good though.  It was just put
in to go along with the lake that was built.  It's been in the mid to high
90s here too.  Next month we will spend most of the month above 100.

Thanks for telling your story.

Bob

    RE: .18
     
    Good luck to you.  As I'm sure you're planning to do, try to
    choose the cooler times of day - dawn or evening.  I was near
    Fort Worth a couple weeks past, and the heat is manageable if
    you're careful - rest (in the shade or indoors) when you get hot,
    drink lots, and douse your jersey in water if that helps.
    
    BMB took place in the mid 90's, and that was in NH, VT, MA and
    Quebec!  The difference in Texas is it's a bit warmer, there
    can be fewer trees ... oh, and the highways have huge "shoulders"
    that are paved just like the main roadway, almost as if they were
    trying to be nice to cyclists.  So if you do hit the highways,
    in lots of places you can feel relatively safe!
    
    Take it easy...
    -john

    Y'all have been unavailable for 3 days!!!  Musta been the string on the
    tin cans to the frozen north broke!
    
    
re .18
    
>I did my first ride Sunday.  3 miles and I was exhausted.

    Boy, do I remember this feeling...  the "what the hell am I doing to
    myself" feeling.  The really good thing about it is that the initial
    gains come very quickly.  Within a couple weeks you start to feel
    comfortable on the bike and can ride far enough to see some scenery (do
    they have "scenery" in Dallas?).
    
>Took Monday off to cut the rest of the grass and rode again last night.  I
>rode for about 35 minutes and went about 8 miles.  I'm concentrating on
>getting my cadence down, and ignoring distance.  I don't even look at the
>distance until I get home.

    I've found that works well for me too.  I've been leaving the computer
    in average speed mode so I can see how I'm doing but I don't look at
    overall distance until I'm done either.
    
    Tuesday night I went out and did 18.5 miles around the lakes and
    through town.  I'm averaging about 50-60 miles/week and it keeps
    getting to be more fun.  I've been following the advice in the earlier
    notes and working at different times on easy rides with my wife just
    for fun, longer distances by myself to build stamina, and fairly short
    (5-7 mile) rides with hills to build whatever the heck that builds!  My
    wife says I am now an OFFICIAL masochist - "you wanna do what?  go
    climb a hill?  ON PURPOSE?"
    
    But, she was right there!  And she makes it up hills now that a month
    ago she had to walk up!
    
>I'm going to be faced with the heat problem too.  I live in Dallas and
>there is NO shade where I ride.  The road is good though.  It was just put
>in to go along with the lake that was built.  It's been in the mid to high
>90s here too.  Next month we will spend most of the month above 100.

    Drink a lot.  Again, following the advice in here I force myself to
    drink liquids even when only going a few miles.  The temperature here
    last Sunday was 98 with an index temperature of 107.  I went out early
    in the morning (85 degrees) and the humidity was so high that
    everything was soaked.  It looked like it had rained.  I managed to
    stay comfortable by finding shady places to ride and drinking lots of
    water.  I also usually carry an apple or banana and stop to eat it
    somewhere along the ride.
    
    
    The biggest thing I've learned is to keep it fun.  I push hard when it
    feels right, and definitely enjoy having my wife ride with me.  It has
    also been a real aid to losing weight...  another 5 pounds bite the
    dust - down 42 to 262!  I'm gonna close in on all you skinny guys yet!
    
    Dave

re: .20

The only scenery here in Dallas is the blonde woman that flew by me leaving
a trail of perfume as she went by.  My legs involuntarily sped up, but then
logic overruled the legs and I slowed back down again.

See 'ya,

Bob

    What I've found for a four-season exercise route is:
    
    Summer - bicycle to work
    Spring/fall - bodybuilding
    Winter - killer downhill skiing
    
    We all know the advantages of bicycling so I don't need to talk
    about them, but let me explain the bodybuilding and downhill
    skiing...
    
    Bodybuilding works not only to strengthen muscles and ligaments,
    but it also puts a big premium on flexibility and resilence.  That
    way, when I crash in the summer/winter, I don't break important
    pieces.  Depending on how you schedule reps/set and sets/session,
    it can be completely anerobic, completely aerobic, or anywhere in
    between.  It also helps balance and gets you in good touch with
    your own body. 
    
    The downhill skiing isn't as aerobic as cross-country skiing, but
    it _is_ aerobic.  If you don't think so, try doing a mogul field
    at a good clip.  Your thighs will burn, your calves will burn, your
    arms will burn, your heart will be pounding and your lungs will
    be bursting.  I've never gotten to "I wanna puke" doing moguls
    but I've gotten uncomfortably close.  You'll barely have the strength
    left to stand up, if you ride it hard.
    
    Downhill skiing also exercises the quads and calves much more than
    cross-country... expecially if you go out and ride the bumps.  Much
    more than cross-country, in my opinion.
                                           
    -----
    
    Does this crazyness work?  For me, yes.  For you, I don't know.
    But it's something to think about.  
    	
    	-Bill

>The only scenery here in Dallas is the blonde woman that flew by me leaving
>a trail of perfume as she went by.  My legs involuntarily sped up, but then
>logic overruled the legs and I slowed back down again.

    Gee.  I always thought that was an added bonus of riding... Here in
    Minnesota the walking path around the lakes is a couple feet from the
    riding path...  It makes for some nice scenery watching the walkers! 
    And occasionally I've also had that involuntary accelleration whe
    passed by an inordinarily attractive fellow (female) rider!  

    re: earlier
    
>    get into to that stuff. You don't have to train with 60-70 miles
>    to do 25-50 mile rides. In fact, if those are your targets 20-25
>    milers are fine to train with. 
    
    Well, I made it to the 25 mile point!  Last weekend and today I did a
    comfortable 21 and 25 miles - with the occasional stop for snacks on
    apples, just to sit and watch the Mississippi go by,  and, if the truth
    be known - some frozen yogurt.  It takes me about 3 hours to do the 25
    miles at 11-12 mph average.  I feel terrific and at the end of the
    rides I thought I could continue.  Now to slowly increase the speed.
    
    I also followed the suggestion to see about some group rides.  I've
    gotten schedules for several century rides that are in loops of around
    25 miles.  So, I can go out and do 25 miles or 50 if I feel good.  The
    ones I have start about the middle of August so I feel like I should be
    ready provided these folks do a pretty leisurely pace.  
    
>    speeds you wish to achieve/maintain. Speedwork once a week (high-revs
>    with short busrts 20-30 seconds with maybe 10 sets). Then intervals
>    (more spinning (95-102 rpm's at about 80% of your capacity for 1
>    to 2 minutes - build on getting to 2 minutes with about 10 sets)
    
    This is the KILLER.  Spinning as fast as I can (seems to be about
    115-120 RPM) for 30 seconds IS THE LONGEST 30 SECONDS IN THE WORLD!
    TEN sets?  Well, I'm working on it.
    
    But, so far, whatever I'm doing is working...  47 pounds in 10 weeks!

    > But, so far, whatever I'm doing is working...  47 pounds in 10 weeks!
    
    Great!  Keep up the good work.  I've lost 7 in two weeks.  I seem to be
    stuck at 8 miles though.
    
    Bob
    

    re -whichever:
    
    OK.  Which one of you maniacs said "go on organized rides" and "riding
    with a group is good"?
    
    What a cruel joke to play on a neophite!
    
    Last weekend - I went out for my Sunday morning ride.  As I approached
    the park from which I normally start, I started seeing an abnormally
    high number of cars with bikes on them...  so I figured perhaps this
    was my chance to try a little group touring!
    
    WRONGO MOOSE FACE!  
    
    When I got to the park, the entire area near the road was filled with
    cars, bikes and humans.  So, I stopped and asked what was up...  one of
    the folks told me it was the annual Aquatennial Bike Ride...  so, I
    figured I could handle a few people.  I headed into the park and found
    the ENTIRE grounds FILLED with humans.  People EVERYWHERE.  Hundreds. 
    Thousands.  MILLIONS!  But, I figured I'd give it a try. 
    
    So, I went in to register.  More people!  At least 10,000 packed into a
    little building standing in lines.  Lots of lines.  People from 3 to
    83.  So, I got a registration form.  And looked at the map.  THESE
    PEOPLE WANTED ME TO PAY THEM $12.00 TO RIDE THE SAME RIDE I RIDE ALL
    THE TIME!!!!!!!!
    
    I walked outside and they were getting ready to start.   They blocked
    off the road.  I looked at two lanes of people on bikes.  Blocks and
    blocks of people on bikes.  I saw numbers on bikes OVER 3500!  
    
    I couldn't do it.  I couldn't imagine a 25 mile ride with 3500+ of my
    closest friends, much less that many total strangers.  I got back into
    my car, drove home, and had a hearty breakfast!!!!!!!!
    
    YEAH, YEAH, YEAH - I went out a couple hours later and did my ride!

    Well, I've been up on the bike.  And, now I've been off the bike and on
    my head!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    This is the first time in about 3 days I've had the sling off and could
    even type.  Labor Day weekend I ate everything in sight!  So, I figured
    I'd go out and work off some of the cake, peanuts, sandwiches, etc... 
    by doing a good long ride.  It was a BEAUTIFUL afternoon, light breeze
    and 72 degrees, after a rainy morning.  A couple miles out on the bike
    path I came around a curve and was suddenly confronted by a kid on a
    skateboard in the space where I wanted to be.  So, I swerved.  Off the
    path.  Into the WET, soft, dirt.  THEN I GOT STUPID.  Tried to pull the
    bike back onto the path.  The next thing I knew I was flying through
    the air to land on my shoulder.  The front wheel had swung around at 90
    degrees and the bike STOPPED!  I didn't.  
    
    I did an inventory and no bones seemed to be grinding so I eventually
    got up and rode the bike back to the car.  So, I've been sitting around
    with ice on my shoulder, taking pain killers, and feeling stupid. 
    Doctor says nothing seems broken, just a little shoulder separation in
    the AC? joint.
    
    The one good thing...  I felt and heard it when my head hit the
    asphalt.  HARD.  THAT IS ONE HELL OF A NOISE!  The helmet did its job. 
    I may have to replace the helmet, but when you look at the dents and
    gouges in the styrofoam instead of my head, its definitely worth it.
    
    Other than that, things have been going great.  I'm up to abour 35
    miles on the rides.  I've been gradually increasing my distance and
    average speed.  I'm doing the 35 miles around 13-13.5 mph average. 
    I've been continuing the weekly hill climbing and speed work.  Last
    Tuesday I got home early and was standing in the garage and just
    decided I was DAMN WELL going to go out and climb the hill in Savage I
    hadn't been able to get up.  I did.  No sweat.  What a difference a
    couple months make!!!!!!!!!  And, I'm still managing to lose a little
    weight... although I gained a couple pounds this week I've still lost
    50 pounds in 16 weeks.  And taken 8 inches off my waist.  Now if the
    nice weather will just last a little longer!
    
    My wife and I are going on an organized ride this weekend.  Its a
    cloverleaf ride with distances from 25 to 100 miles.  We're going to
    try doing 25 miles and if we feel good go for 50.  I'll have to play it
    by ear depending on how the shoulder feels.  
    
    Well, enough shoulder exercise.  Back to the sling!
    
    Dave, who only uses the sling for sympathy!

    Dave,
    
    	Sorry to hear about your crash.  Good training for racing? :-)
    Your distance and pace are getting quite respectable.  Good going!
    
    -john

    Well, I probably shouldn't do this for fear of being thought insane,
    but I'm gonna anyway...
    
    I've been trying to ride in something organized for a few weeks, but
    every time I've checked one out Its RAINED like a monsoon.  But, my
    wife and I were scheduled for a cloverleaf century in Northfield Minn.
    last Saturday, so I took the sling off (the doctor decided the
    shoulder was only "a little separated"), took a healthy helping of pain
    killers with me, and headed for the ride.
    
    Fortunately, being a cloverleaf, the ride was in 25 mile chunks, so I
    figured I'd ride a bit and see how things held up.  My wife has done 20
    miles once, and I was hoping I could go at least 25 miles.  
    
    IT WAS GREAT!  This was the first time I've been on anything like this. 
    The organizers had all kinds of fruit and drinks and cookies, and
    muffins, and all sorts of other helpful food.  The sag wagons were
    everywhere to pick up people with problems.  About every 10 minutes one
    went past.  They had a mechanic complete with repair shop in a truck on
    the scene doing all kinds of repairs where necessary.  And, the
    people...  herds of people all out having a nice time.  The racers did
    their thing, we tourists did ours - stopping periodically to figure out
    where we were, have a bite, wave and say hi, etc.  
    
    We tried something I've seen (I think) in here - we made a trail mix
    from an oat granola with raisins and dates, with a few M&Ms thrown in
    (the M&Ms were JUST CAUSE I WANTED TO!).  It worked great.  I don't
    know if it really helped or was just phychological, but we ate some
    about every 6-8 miles and my wife had TONS more energy than she's ever
    had before.  That, coupled with a light but "bready" breakfast of some
    pancakes made the difference I think. My wife made 25 miles.  This was
    5 miles further than she's ever gone.  And her average was about 1.5
    mph faster than she's ever done.  She was really tickled.   My shoulder
    started to tighten up about four miles from the end so I quit at 25
    miles too.  

    	Dave,
    
    	Sounds like you and your wife are progressing well. You
    	made the right decision with that shoulder hurting.
    
    	Keep it up.
    
    	Scott

    re:.28  I enjoy seeing articles like that.  Always glad to see some
    folks try something new and enjoy themselves.  Riding's supposed to be
    fun.
    
    ed

    <set mode = another long one with the questions at the end again>
    
    Well, the season up here in the frozen north is coming to a close (at
    least for wimps like me that prefer it above freezing when we ride).
    But, oh my what a close!  Over the past two weeks I've
    
    Ridden the Cannon Valley trail 2 weekends ago - a beautiful paved trail
    on an old railroad bed that runs through the woods along the Cannon
    River from Cannon Falls to Red Wing.  Absolutely wonderful.  It's
    42 miles for the round trip and I averaged about 14 mph for the
    trip with a stop in Red Wing to wander around the shops.  
    
    I had so much fun that the next day I took my wife down there with me
    and we rode the trail to the little town halfway.  She absolutely loved
    the ride and the fall colors were just starting to get nice.
    
    I did a couple rides in the evenings and continued working out on the
    local hills.  I have a couple rides close to home that are varying
    distances and nastiness of hills, and I keep track of the time, maximum
    speed, and average speed for each ride so I can gauge my progress.  
    
    Last week I took a week of vacation.  We didn't go anywhere so I used
    the time to ride almost every day.
    
    I did the 35 mile loop around the cities along the Mississippi River on
    Saturday, and several 10 and 20 mile rides during the week.  
    
    Monday, we went up to St. Croix State Park for a ride through the
    trails in the park.  Incredible.  Not a person around and incredible
    fall colors.  We had deer everywhere along the trail, and not the least
    worried about people on bicycles.  We did a leisurely 20+ miles and had
    a great time.  Next year I'll have to camp there and ride the
    surrounding area.
    
    Several of us went back down to the Cannon Valley Trail in mid-week and
    rode part of that trail again (around 22 or so miles).  Picked up some
    picnic things at the halfway point and had a nice time.
    
    On Sunday, the last vacation day, we went on an organized tour around
    Lake Minnetonka.  This was a 30 mile tour on nice roads with some of
    the biggest, most beautiful houses around the Twin Cities.  We had a
    great time despite the tremendous wind.  
    
    I couldn't believe the weather all week.  It was 65-75 every day,
    absolutely sunny, no rain, and only windy a few times.  I went for some
    kind of ride almost every day.  
    
    I don't know how many miles I did for the week but I'm sure I was over
    100.  I've just topped 900 miles this year.  This is terrific
    considering that 4 months ago when I started I was able to do about 20
    miles per week if I went at least 3 times and was willing to put up
    with exhaustion.  In 18 weeks of riding I've lost 63 pounds, dropped 8
    inches off my waist, and can now ride the trainer in 15-25 minute
    bursts without exhaustion (more later on that...).
    
    My wife's stamina has improved tremendously.  She doesn't get out as
    much as I did, but she did the second Cannon Valley ride, the St. Croix
    ride, and the Lake Minnetonka tour.  She has gone from nothing to doing
    a 25 or 30 mile tour.  She gets tired at the end, but she always
    finishes.  She has lost some weight and feels terrific.  She has also
    started working out after work - weight training, rowing machines, etc. 
    
    What hath this exercising thing wrought?
    
    Of course, the day I went back to work the weather sucked so I didn't
    feel so bad about missing my ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Now, of course, the inevitable questions...
    
    About 6 weeks ago I finally took the advise in here and bought a heart
    monitor - it was on sale for $125 instead of $169, so I bought it.  It
    helps a ton when I'm on the trainer and I"ve used it a couple times on
    training rides.  However, when I'm riding hills my heart rate is a good
    bit higher than I think it should be.  According to the chart it should
    be between 120 and 155 beats.  When climbing hills, even in low gears,
    my heart rate would get over 160.  A couple times it was over 175.  I'm
    not sure whether to be concerned or not, or what to do about it.  I was
    in first gear going uphill once and it was over 170.  I was steady on
    the flat at around 145-148 at around 18 mph in a 48-20 gear.  I have no
    idea if this is good or bad.  
    
    On the trainer - its a mag trainer with settings that run L 1 2 3 4 5 H
    I've been using the "2" setting.  With the monitor on I steady out at
    around 138-145 beats in a 48/20 or 48/17 gear around 76-80 rpm.  I do
    15-30 minute workouts in this gear, then do a few times when I spin up
    in a lower gear to 110-120 rpm and hold it for as long as possible.  Is
    this a reasonable workout?
    
    Anyhow, so far I like riding the trainer.  I sweat like crazy on it,
    but I like the workout!
    
    Anyhow, its been a great season and I can sure see the results.  Now if
    I can just keep it up over the winter.  I feel the urge to learn
    cross-country skiing and such...  I have all this energy I don't know
    what to do with!
    
    Of course, I'm not ready to give up on riding yet if I can get some
    decent weekend weather I'm going to try breaking 1000 miles before the
    winter shuts me down!
    
    thanks to all,
    Dave P

       <<< Note 1233.31 by NCPROG::PEREZ "Just one of the 4 samurai!" >>>
                       -< More good news from Minnesota >-

>    training rides.  However, when I'm riding hills my heart rate is a good
>    bit higher than I think it should be.  According to the chart it should
>    be between 120 and 155 beats.  When climbing hills, even in low gears,
>    my heart rate would get over 160.  A couple times it was over 175.  I'm
>    not sure whether to be concerned or not, or what to do about it.  I was
>    in first gear going uphill once and it was over 170.  I was steady on
>    the flat at around 145-148 at around 18 mph in a 48-20 gear.  I have no
>    idea if this is good or bad.  

Its inevitable that your HR will increase when climbing hills, because you're 
doing more work and going anerobic for a while.  You're asking more of your 
legs, which asks more of you cardiovascular system.  Not to worry, unless your 
really pushing your max.  Given that you've recently started this program, 
have you seen a (sports oriented) doctor for a physical and some
recommendations on intensity? Beginners should be careful, but don't be afraid
of pushing yourself.  Since I don't know, or remember, your age and other
details, its tough to recommend HR ranges.  Even those charts that doctors and
health clubs have or only guidelines.  As they say, "you're mileage may
vary...". 
    
>    Anyhow, so far I like riding the trainer.  I sweat like crazy on it,
>    but I like the workout!

Set up a large fan in front of you to keep cool.  It will lower your HR (your 
body won't be working so hard to cool itself) and you'll save your bike from 
rusting out (sweat is terribly corrosive).  The new kind that are mounted on 
stands work great, and if you hook it up with a remote on/off switch extension 
cord, you can leave it off as you warm up, then turn it on when you need it.  
I'm trying to figure out how to control its speed remotely...

Keep up the good work.

Kevin

        
    > About 6 weeks ago I finally took the advise in here and bought a heart
    > monitor - it was on sale for $125 instead of $169, so I bought it.  It
    > helps a ton when I'm on the trainer and I"ve used it a couple times on
    > training rides.  However, when I'm riding hills my heart rate is a good
    > bit higher than I think it should be.  According to the chart it should
    > be between 120 and 155 beats.  When climbing hills, even in low gears,
    > my heart rate would get over 160.  A couple times it was over 175.  I'm
    > not sure whether to be concerned or not, or what to do about it.  I was
    > in first gear going uphill once and it was over 170.  I was steady on
    > the flat at around 145-148 at around 18 mph in a 48-20 gear.  I have no
    > idea if this is good or bad.  
    

    First of all, I would recommend that you talk with your physician
    about your concerns with your heart rate.  Depending on your age
    and your health, your doctor can best advise you if their is concern
    for your heart rate getting that high.  
    
    You training heart range is the range at where you develop your
    cardio-vascular strength.  At the lower part of this range is where
    you are more apt to burn off fat and loose weight.  You are best
    to exercise when keeping your heart rate in your target range. 
    And if your goal is to burn off fat, you are better off to keep
    you heart rate at the 65-75% of max range.
    
    Just because you go above your target heart range, does not mean
    that you are going to keel over and die on the spot.  For many people,
    it is ok to bring your heart rate above your target range for short
    intervals.  For other people, there could be problems.  This is
    why it is important to talk to your doctor.  
    
    Even more important than being able to maintain your heart rate
    while exercising is how quickly you can drop your heart rate during
    your cool down.  This is called your recovery rate.  It is also
    a good indication of how strong your heart is.
    
    As a side note, Have you checked the accuracy of the monitor?  The
    health club I go to has some stationary bikes with monitors.  Every
    5 minutes during my workout, I take my own pulse to be sure that
    it si reading the same as the monitor.  I've noticed differences
    up to 10% from what the monitor and what my own count was.  I always
    be sure to take my own pulse when I am exercising at my peak levels.
    
    Good luck.
    
    	-Nancy
    

    	Dave P.,
    
    	As I've probably mentioned before, I'm impressed. I believe
    	the winters are difficult because you have to ride rollers
    	or a trainer, and they are boring. But, you can stick a
    	fan in front of you, set up a small TV or cassette recorder
    	and watch or listen to fight the boredom.
    
    	Keep up the good work.
    
    	Scott

    Actually I didn't intend to turn this into a discussion of health and
    heart rates, and pulse and recovery and all, I was just feeling so good
    about the mileage I got in last week, I had to brag a bit!
    
    >Not to worry, unless your  really pushing your max.  Given that you've
    >recently started this program,  have you seen a (sports oriented)
    >doctor for a physical and some recommendations on intensity? Beginners
    >should be careful, but don't be afraid of pushing yourself.  Since I
    >don't know, or remember, your age and other details, its tough to
    >recommend HR ranges.  Even those charts that doctors and health clubs
    >have or only guidelines.  As they say, "you're mileage may vary...". 
    
    I should have mentioned it, yep I've been to the doctor MORE than I'd
    planned.  When I went over the bars I got dragged into emergency
    (hysterical wife because of a little boo-boo)!  Admittedly, the doctor
    I saw wasn't a "sports medicine" expert, but he is a runner and a
    cyclist, and in addition to poking the sore spots, he checked me over
    and did some testing.  His "short" evaluation of my condition was that
    I was in better shape than in years, I'd lost about 45 pounds at that
    point, my blood pressure and pulse were both down significantly.  His
    comment was to "keep it in the aerobic range and HAVE FUN."
    
    He gave me my "target zone" for workouts based on my age - 37, and
    general physical health.  His numbers were for 65% at 120 bpm, 85% at
    155 bpm, and 100% at around 180 bpm.  These numbers come real close to
    what the heart monitor says, so I'm taking them as reasonable.  
    
>    You training heart range is the range at where you develop your
>    cardio-vascular strength.  At the lower part of this range is where
>    you are more apt to burn off fat and loose weight.  You are best
>    to exercise when keeping your heart rate in your target range. 
>    And if your goal is to burn off fat, you are better off to keep
>    you heart rate at the 65-75% of max range.
    
    Well, I think I'm doing reasonably well then.  I usually try to stay in
    the 65-85% range, and only get high on (what are for me) hard uphills.
    I've got the alarms set at 120 and 150 on the monitor, and this sounds
    like a good setting.
    
>    Even more important than being able to maintain your heart rate
>    while exercising is how quickly you can drop your heart rate during
>    your cool down.  This is called your recovery rate.  It is also
>    a good indication of how strong your heart is.
    
    Have you any information on "good" rates for recovery?  I have none,
    but can measure recovery.  If anybody has information on recovery rates
    for 3 and/or 5 minutes, I'd appreciate it...
    
    thanks,
    Dave

    Re: .31
    
    I endorse the comments about getting a fan.  Even in a cold room
    you can create a 'micro climate' around you as you heat up which
    is a lot warmer than the rest of the room.  Without a fan body
    temperature can rise dangerously within about 10 minutes of starting
    the work out.  There is absolutely no benefit in inducing thermal
    stress! :-)  You should also wear a T shirt to prevent chilling your
    chest.
    
    Wind trainer work outs may be the best way to get a quality work
    out on the bike as you aren't subject to the tyranny of the weather,
    drivers of doubtful ability, hills in the wrong places, rabid dogs,
    etc., but they sure are BORING.  I've found that adding variety
    by doing stereo music free structured sessions (let the speed of
    the music control your speed) and interval sessions I can relieve
    the boredom and therefore work out more often and for longer periods.
    
    Richard.

    First, I want to say...
    
    	I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU WHO LIVES WHERE
        THERE ISN'T SNOW ON THE GROUND AND TEMPERATURES OF 3 DEGREES AND  
        YOU CAN STILL RIDE YOUR BIKES OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Ok, so I'm kidding, but its become winter here, so I'm reduced to
    putting the bike on the trainer and riding in the house.  So far, I
    like it.  I find it a lot more tiring than riding on the road (turns
    out that you can't coast on the trainer!!!!!!  When do I get a
    downhill?), but its not bad.
    
    I've decided I'm strictly a warm-weather rider!  Once it got down to
    about 40 degrees, I found that it took a long time to warm up, and it
    just wasn't as much fun.  Since the fun quotient is very important, I
    decided to move indoors.
    
    BUT, thanks to some hard work, and encouragement from my wife, and
    advice from you all...
    
    FROM STARTING OUT IN JUNE AT AROUND 10 MILES/WEEK, I FINISHED IN
    OCTOBER WITH 1002 MILES!  So far, I've lost 65 pounds, and if I can
    keep pedalling the trainer until spring, next year I'm going for 1500
    miles!!!!!!!!!!!!  I'm also going to learn cross-country skiing this
    winter!
    
    I also LOVE MY TREK!
    Dave Perez

    Dave,
    
    that's great.  I have only lost 53 pounds, but then I didn't have as
    much to lose as you.  :-).
    
    Just to make your day, we have had temperatures in the high 80s
    and low 90s all week.  With blue skies and balmy breezes, riding
    outside has been most enjoyable.  In fact, it's well past quitting
    time and I'm off home for a quick 30 kms.
    
    Richard.

re. Note 1233.37                 
    
>>        I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU WHO LIVES WHERE
>>        THERE ISN'T SNOW ON THE GROUND AND TEMPERATURES OF 3 DEGREES AND  
>>        YOU CAN STILL RIDE YOUR BIKES OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Hi Dave,
    
    	Good job on the weight loss...keep it going.  I have to disagree
    with your statement though since it's hovering around zero today and
    their is some snow on the ground in Nude Hampster and we will be
    doing our weekly GSW Saturday club ride tomorrow morning as usuall.
    Granted, only 4 people showed up last week, well we would have had
    five but someone brought ski's instead of a bike :-) .  I think the
    reason that most of us do it is that the indoor roller/fan trainers
    get real boaring and even just a 10 mile ride on a real bike keeps
    it interesting by braking the monotony up a little.  Ask Santa
    (or Ms. Claus) to bring you some cold weather gear, pick up a beater
    bike at your next police auction or yard sale and give it a go....
    you'll be glad you did.  
    						_Jerry

   Re last few...

   I went outside for about 25 miles today in spite of the fact that it
   snowed the nite before, and would have ridden considerably further but
   was bothered by too many slick patches and didn't want to risk falling.

   Some good cold weather wear makes it bearable to ride outside in the
   cold, and fenders keep you and your bike from getting filthy; the only
   real risk is getting splashed by a car.  After a few days of boredom
   on rollers or a wind trainer even riding in the cold looks good.

   - Jim

    Well, I'm still riding my trainer...  I've got a couple tapes that I
    made from the extremely small collection of (semi-) rock CDs I own. 
    Frankly, most classical music just DOESN'T make it when trying to rid
    the trainer.  A little Credence Clearwater works MUCH better for me.
    
    And, to avoid the boredom I had hoped to learn to cross-country ski. 
    NOT IN THIS BROWN WASTELAND.  We ain't got a flake of natural snow with
    hours of Minneapolis.  So, last Saturday morning, when my wife had to
    go to work, I got up, looked around and decided I was bored, and
    decided to 
    
    		GO LEARN TO DOWNHILL SKI!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    The confidence I've gained from riding and exercising during the last
    year made it possible for me to go try something I've NEVER done
    before.  The old... "I've never done this before, I can't do it" was
    replaced by "you rode 1000 miles this year, you never did that before
    either - you CAN do this"...  I dragged myself to a local ski area,
    took two days of lessons and had a ball.  Thank God for riding a
    bicycle.  BTW:  The folks in the skiing notes file are a lot like the
    ones here...  good folks!  
    
    later,
    
    David - now caught between thinking SNOW and WARM BIKING weather!!!

	Boy, I'm glad I found this note.  I just started cycling and ran into a 
problem yesterday that had me pretty discouraged.  Like the base noter I'm a 
little, allright, a lot, on the heavy side (272.5 lbs).  For a while I've 
wanted to start cycling for the exercise to complement my weight loss program 
and also just for the shear fun of it.  After yestereday I was wondering if I 
should even be considering riding, until I read .0

	Saturday, for an anniversary present, my wife bought me a Fuji 
Palisades hybrid bike.  I bought the bike at Goodale's and specifically asked 
if there was anything I needed to be aware of or should look for since I am 
overweight.  The salesman said the frame was sturdy and should be no problem.
After riding it twice I brought the bike back because the back wheel appeared 
to be bent.  The person I brought it back to (not the one I bought it from) 
said, as tactfully as possible, that the wheels on the hybrids are smaller and
can't take the stress that I put on it.  Now, since I didn't jump any curbs, 
I didn't run over anybody or thing and I didn't drop the bike I have to 
conclude that he was talking about my girth.  If the wheel is lunched 
Goodale's wants to refund my money and sell me a mountain bike which, since 
it has larger wheels will be able to take the stress.  I really enjoy riding 
and want to be able to continue so I will go with the mountain bike but I have 
a few questions.

	First of all should the Fuji have failed and will a mountain bike be 
able to take the extra weight?  Also, I wanted the hybrid bike because 
although I will spend most of my time on pavement I would like to do some 
trail riding and I like the upright position.  Is it possible to get a 
mountain bike with hybrid-like tires?  

	I'm sure that answers to these questions and more will become clear as 
I plow through this file but I'm going back to Goodale's tonight and want to be 
prepared.

Thanks for any and all help,

George

	Depends how wealthy you are feeling....the easiest way
	is to have different wheels with different types of
	tires mounted on them.

	You can go anywhere from "real knobby" to "slick".

	The other option is to just buy the bike with either a
	medium set of knobiness, or get a tire with a
	"road ridge".  This is a center raised ridge that
	allows the tire to run pretty flat on the paved 
	areas...

	I ride with Smokes...which are knobby and have a
	sorta road ridge...they are easy and comfortable,
	but my friends on road bikes can sure hear me coming!

	As far as bending the wheel....I am not a lightweight, and
	I beat the hell out of my bike in the woods and have
	yet to severly bend anything....

	Goodales sell several different varieties of mtn
	bike...I ride a diamondback, specialized are also
	nice bikes...

	good luck

	-dick

> After riding it twice I brought the bike back because the back wheel appeared 
> to be bent.  The person I brought it back to (not the one I bought it from) 
> said, as tactfully as possible, that the wheels on the hybrids are smaller and
> can't take the stress that I put on it.  

I weigh 245 or so, and sometimes put at least 20 pounds of stuff
in my panniers.  For years I used 1-1/4 rims without problem
(until a rather unlucky day crossing the railroad tracks on Rt 117 without
the tires pumped all the way).

Possibilities:
 1  You had low tire pressure and bottomed out.
 2  The wheel was not built well.
 3  The wheel used cheap parts.

I'm not familiar with the Fuji Palisades.  If it had steel rims,
I would vote for number 3.

How was the dent shaped?
If it was a few inches long and dented inward, I would guess number 1.

If the dent was more of a gradual wave over about a foot or so,
it sounds like the wheel wasn't built right.  Having them retension it
might be enough, but let the shop decide.  Wheels can take a little
while to settle in, and sometimes need a retruing after the first 50 miles.

> If the wheel is lunched 
> Goodale's wants to refund my money and sell me a mountain bike which, since 
> it has larger wheels will be able to take the stress.  

That's kind of nice of them.  A crummy shop might have just messed with
the wheel enough to fix it, instead of trying to get you the right bike.

> Also, I wanted the hybrid bike because 
> although I will spend most of my time on pavement I would like to do some 
> trail riding and I like the upright position.

That's a good reason to get something a little more rugged than some hybrids.
Of course, hybrids come in a spectrum of ruggednesses

-Jeff Bell

    An ATB or whatever should certainly be able to carry you, no problem,
    but you should, perhaps, make sure you get good wheels. That means
    wheels built with quality alloy rims and stainless steel spokes (36
    spokes better than 32). I think mid-price ATBs tend to concentrate
    their value in componentry and flash paint jobs, and probably economise
    on wheels. Could some negotiation with the shop be called for, to get
    good wheels? 
    
    
    Rod

    Thanks for the responses.  The wheels on the Fuji are alloy.  I don't
    think I hit anything that should have caused the wheel to bend.  One
    thing I did do was to apply the rear brakes to hard once that caused
    the back of the bike to rise up a little.  If that's enough to bend the rim 
    then I guess I better go get a more durable bike.   Goodale's was able to 
    true up the wheel but still would like me to get a mountain bike.  The 
    bike I was looking at is a GT Talera for $365.  Now let me see if I can 
    remember the particulars.  It has alloy rims, Shimano 300 GSX gears and a 
    chromoly(sp?) frame.  It also has a quick release rear and front wheel.
    Anyone have any information on GT bikes as far as quality?  Is this a good 
    price?
    
    	One thing they will not do is refund all my money.  There will be a
    $30 charge because now they can't sell the Fuji as new.  I can
    sympathize with that but I don't think I should be out $30 because the
    salesman didn't do his job.  I did ask if there were any considerations
    because of weight and he said no.  Am I being unreasonable?  The shop
    won't negotiate on the price of the GT.
    
    George
    

    Well, its been a while since I updated things here...
    
    I'm riding more than ever.  I passed the 1500 mile mark last week, on
    my way to my goal for this year of 2500.  The weight has stabilized for
    the past year, so I figure its about time to start thinking about
    taking another 20 pounds off - down to the next plateau.  
    
    I looked back at the earlier notes, and the make me chuckle now!  In
    the last 2 years, I've been on lots of rides with local AYH groups, a
    bunch of us from the local office joined a bike club sponsored by one
    of the local shops, I've ridden up Going-to-the-sun-road in Glacier
    Park (which I"ll do again in about 3 weeks), tonight I went with AYH
    for a little 30 mile after-work ride, averaged just over 17 mph, a
    couple weeks ago did 71 miles on my way to preparing for the century I
    hope to do before the end of the season.  Tomorrow I'm planning on
    going 78-80 miles for training, etc.
    
    A couple months ago my wife and I went on the "Tour of the Lakes" ride
    in northern Minnesota.  Great ride - incredible well organized.  They
    put out groups on different length rides (100, 62, and 40 miles) at
    different times, so they'd all come back at the same time.  Worked
    great.  My wife did the 40 miles - she's been gradually working her
    distance up and she went back out Sunday morning and rode some more!
    At the endpoint they had a turkey barbeque and a jazz band.  Great
    time!
    
    Bicycling has had far reaching effects on both of us.  We pay more
    attention to what we're eating, both feel better, have lots more
    energy, and can do things we haven't been able to do in years - like
    hike trails and such... (handy on vacation this year since we'll be at
    Glacier, Banff, and Jasper National Parks.