Conference noted::bicycle

    At 5'4" I would say a "Terry style" frame would not be needed. 
    The important factor for most women is the length of the top tube,
    many frames have top tube that are longer, designed for men.  
    Ride a number of frames, you'll probably need about 20" frame, both
    those marketed towards women and men and feel what is more comfortable.
    Bikes marketed to women often have smaller handlebars, brake levers
    and a women's saddle.  Depending upon your body structure you may
    or may not need all of these features.
    If you have a bike already, get together with a bike club and have
    people analyze how you look on your current bike.  Another option
    is to have a GOOD bike shop do a fit kit for you.
    
    steve

        1. If you can catch Georgena's talk on fitting the bike to the
    woman, do so.  She'll be giving it the 16-17th at GEAR in Saratoga
    Springs, Fourth of July Weekend at LAW Nat. Rally in Salisbury,
    MD,  and in August at NEAR in Storrs, CT. 
    	2. Having sat thru it a couple of times, my impression is that
    the correct fit is not just a matter of size, but more of proportion.
    The leg length to torso length ratio.  As Paul probably told you,
    the typical female proportions tend toward longer legs and shorter
    torsos in comparison to equal height males (for whom most bikes
    are designed).  If you get on a typical bike with the frame correctly
    sized for your leg length, and find that you are reaching too far
    forward for the handlebars, do try a Terry.  Some of this can be
    corrected for on a typical bike by shortening the stem extension,
    lengthening the stem length/height, and going to randanour (sp?)
    style handlebars. 
    	These can have a bad effect on the steering geometry/dynamics
    of the steering, and if you get the handlebars too high, it shifts
    much of the weight that your arms/hands carry back to your seat.
    The Terry small wheel/short top tube design is an elegant solution
    to the problem.
    	But no amount of explanation/endorsements can give you as good
    a idea of the difference as a good test ride.  Try one and make
    up your own mind.  - Chris

     There's a feature article in this edition of CYCLIST magazine that
    speaks to "fitting" women.
    
    Chip

    
    The Cyclist issue's cover actually is titled:
    
    	"How to Buy Bikes for Women"
    
    (...ok, there's a colon after the "Buy").  I was thinking of writing
    them and saying that Women are quite probably capable of buying their 
    own bikes these days. :-)  (Of course it would sound better coming 
    from a woman.)
    
    -john

    
    Which issue of Cyclist?  I checked the June issue and didn't see
    an article about women's bikes...
    
    Thanks.
    

    	I sat in on Georgena's workshop at GEAR Saturday. She again
    made the point that the difference in her bikes is not size, it's
    the proportions.  She mentioned that 36% of her bikes are for women
    over 5'4".  And that she had just done a custom short top tube bike
    for a woman 6' tall!  
    	This is starting to sound like a broken record, but: if you
    feel like you are reaching too far forward to get to the handlebars
    and especially the brakes, you probably can use a short top tube,
    (and now that Fugi, Miata, etc have dropped their 'women's' bikes,
    this means a custom or a Terry) bike.
    
    	Terry riders: if you haven't found a comfortable seat, contact
    Georgena.  

    I picked up a copy of her latest brochure. If you'd like a photocopy,
    let me know.
        			- Chris

    
    
    Thanks.  I'd like a copy of the brochure.  I'm at ICO/E25 -
    Pam Burrows.
    
    I do have trouble reaching the brakes on the klunker I've
    been riding...and I'm short-waisted...so I'm interested in the Terry.
    
    Pam

    While we are discussing women's bikes. . . 
    
    I have a "man's" bike and have no problem with the dimensioning
    EXCEPT for the fact that my fingers are too short to reach the brake
    levers.  Over the weekend I bought short-reach brake levers, and
    after installing teh new levers on thebike, I realized that I already
    had short reach brake levers, and I still cannot reach the levers.
    So, does anybody know if Terry has changed the design of their brake
    levers so that short-fingered women can more easily reach them?
    
    	-Nancyt

    Nancy,
    
      When I've heard the term "short reach" as it is applied to brakes it 
    has been in regard to the brake calipers not the levers. On older bikes
    especially the distance between the center bolt hole on the fork to the
    rim of the wheel was greater than most current bikes and required a
    "long reach" brake. Most bikes now have short reach brakes because that
    distance is shorter (the wheel is closer to the top of the fork) thus 
    making braking more positive.
    
      Maybe you know this and really do have short reach levers but
    I haven't heard of them or seen them. I do hope you can get some 
    that you can reach. Brakes do come in handy once in a while. :^)
    
    Jonathan  
    
    
    
    

    I remember Peter Mooney doing something about this when he wass making
    a bike for a friend.  He's at Wheel Works in Belmont.  I don't know if
    it was a special brake lever or if he shimmed some regular levers.
    
    ed

    	At her workshop, Georgena mentioned her regular equipment brake
    levers - I think they are called Junior levers, and a new brake
    system with a spring in the lever that reduces the effort needed
    to move the lever a great deal. I don't know any more about this.
    	It's too bad that the terminology of bicycling is so confusing
    - the 'reach' of brakes having to do with the parts that grab the
    wheel rim, 'alloy' to distinguish between aluminum alloys and steel
    alloys, etc.  - Chris

    re: .10,
    > Over the weekend I bought short-reach brake levers, and
    > after installing teh new levers on thebike, I realized that I already
    > had short reach brake levers, and I still cannot reach the levers.
   
    I think .11 is wrong. There *is* such a thing as short-reach levers (as
    well as short-reach brake calipers). If you *still* can't reach the
    levers you may try to:
    
    	1. position them in a different place on the bend of the bars.
    
    	2. get handlebars with a slightly different bend (there are some
    "anatomical bars out there - pricey, but they may be your best
    solution).
    
    	3. a different type of short-reach lever: some have a different
    bend to the actual lever, others position the center of the pivot
    closer to the bar.
    
    	4. some combination of these
    
    I know that Mark O'Brien (Bicycle Corner, Arlington Mass) has
    experimented with these things.
    
    Roger

    
    > I think .11 is wrong. There is such a thing as short-reach levers 
     
    Am I wrong that I haven't heard of them or seen them? I didn't say
    they don't exist. I hope they do.
        
    Jonathan

    Perhaps a summary is in order:
    
     - A short reach break set has nothing to do with the lever reach,
       it is referring to the calipers.
    
     - They do make smaller versions of levers which allow people with
       small hands to break comfortably
     
     - I know of only one brand, Dia Compe, who makes such things. You
       can order just the levers (Aero only) and they are noticably
       smaller.  (there may be other companies who make them....)
    
    
    Hope this is helpfull
    
    Quinn
    
    PS.  I don't know what the bike shop prices are, but they are around
         $20 mail order

.16>     - I know of only one brand, Dia Compe, who makes such things. You
.16>       can order just the levers (Aero only) and they are noticably
.16>       smaller.  (there may be other companies who make them....)
    
    
    I bought the Dia Compe.  Shimano also makes short reach levers.
    
    With the aero style brakes, I find it easier to ride with my hands
    on my brake hoods, which makes braking relatively easy.  I just
    can't reach the brakes while riding in the drops.
    
    Over the weekend I also tried changing the position of the brakes
    on the handlebars, yet didn't really have any luck.
    
    I think I'm going to go try to talk to a Terry dealer, or to some
    of the bike shops people have mentioned here.  In the meantime,
    I will continue to ride on my brake hoods.
    
    	-Nancy

    	Talking to the expert last Sunday - the proper name for levers
    for small hands is 'Junior levers' or 'Compact levers'.  Dia Compe
    puts out the best ones. - Chris

Another question on fitting a woman's bike:

    My girlfriend  is starting to ride a bike (lifetime total mileage:
    20  miles).  We  bought her a 19" bike (she's 5'4"). The height is
    correct, but the top tube is too long. I've replaced the stem with
    the  shortest  I  could  find  (40mm). She complains that the seat
    hurts her crotch when she rides (after a very short ride, the pain
    started  after 1 mile and was intolerable after 3 miles.) What are
    the  cheap  solutions? The only two I can think of are turning the
    stem around to point back (rather radical, and I don't know if the
    bike  would  be  stable  if  I  did  it)  or  putting  on  upright
    handlebars.  Any other ideas? I'm not sure that a shorter top tube
    will solve the problem, but I think it will. Her saddle is a Sella
    Royale woman's model.

    I'm looking  for  cheap short term solutions to see if she can get
    into  biking. The long term solutions are a Terry, a recumbent, or
    a  tandem  (possibly  a  counter point if they're still made), but
    those start at $500, and we don't want to invest that much yet.

--David

    
    Do Mixte frames have different dimensions than regular "men's" frames?
    
    My wife has been bugging me about her bike, and she finally had
    a chance to see a Terry this past weekend, but I don't know if its
    the answer or wheteher we can afford one.
    
    Anyway, a friend of hers bought a Mixte frame and swears it's the
    first comfortable bike she's ever ridden but I have my doubts that
    she knows whether a non-Mixte frame of the same size wouldn't have
    done just as well. 

    The only way to tell is to measure them.  There is no standard in
    anything.  And then, just because a mixte was comfy for a friend is
    no reason to believe that one will be ok for your wife.  With a mixte
    you'll have to guess where the top of the seat tube would be.
    
    ed

    Are you sure her reach is too far, it could be that the saddle
    is too high or at the wrong angle.  I would loosen the saddle,
    push it foward and angle the front of it just slightly down.  This
    could take some pressure off.  Is she using a women's saddle?  If
    not, get her an Avocet Gel or similar in a womens model.
    
    Her problems don't sound like top tube length.
    
    Better still bring her to a local bike club ride and start asking
    for assistance.
    
    steve

Re: .22

    I'm sure  that  her top tube is too long. She's stretched out much
    too  much.  The  saddle  is probably 2 inches too low. She doesn't
    feel  stable  yet,  and  is more confident with the seat as low as
    possible.  Her  saddle  is  a woman's Selle Royale. The problem is
    that when she leans forward to reach the handlebars she rolls onto
    her  crotch.  A  woman's saddle would help if the problem were the
    back of the saddle. She is much more comfortable riding on the top
    of  the  bars  than  on the drops. That implies that a shorter top
    tube/stem would help.

--David

    Would a Spenco seat cover or padded shorts help?
    
    I can't imagine being able to lean that far forward and still be
    able to pedal . . .

    I'm trying to find a Terry for a friend who had hers destroyed
    by a parking lot attendant last week (Know what a bike looks like
    after its been driven into a concrete garage while sitting on the roof
    of her car?).
    
    So far I've struck out at Bike Exchange in Cambridge and Bicycle Alley
    in Worcester.  Anyone know of other Terry dealers in the New England
    and Upstate NY area?  Terry is out of stock on her model for the year,
    so we have to find someone who has it in their bike shop.
    
    /Larry

    Haggett's in Concord, NH.
    
    ed

    	I was at Pedal Power in Acton, MA., last week. There
    	was a Terry sitting out. Nice looking set of wheels.
    
    	Scott

    Belmont Wheelworks in Belmont Mass has Terrys.

     Valley Bicycle in Amherst Ma.  

I've never done a reply using PAVN before hope this looks ok.

I know of two shops in Northern Vermont that have a good stock of Terry Bikes.

They are as follows: Essex Junction Cycle
                     802-878-1275

               and   Climb High
                     802-985-5055

Mike Spivack
WHTAIL::SPIVACK
dtn 266 4430

>================================================================================
>Note 1197.25                    BIKES FOR WOMEN?                        25 of 29
>CURIE::HUPPERT                                       11 lines  17-AUG-1989 11:16
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                              -< Terry Dealers? >-
>
>    I'm trying to find a Terry for a friend who had hers destroyed
>    by a parking lot attendant last week (Know what a bike looks like
>    after its been driven into a concrete garage while sitting on the roof
>    of her car?).
>    
>    So far I've struck out at Bike Exchange in Cambridge and Bicycle Alley
>    in Worcester.  Anyone know of other Terry dealers in the New England
>    and Upstate NY area?  Terry is out of stock on her model for the year,
>    so we have to find someone who has it in their bike shop.
>    
>    /Larry
>

    Also, if your interested in a used Terry you might want to
    put a note in the WANTED section (note 2 or 3 I think) as
    there are probably some noters that are Terry owners looking
    to move up.
    
    							_Jerry

    LL BEAN had them in stock last weekend.  Might give them a call.
    Ric