Conference noted::bicycle

    I'm also interested, particularly in the TIME system.  Problem is,
    I take a EEE width shoe.  Does anyone know if you can move the cleats
    left/right on the shoes?  I find I have to angle the toe clips well
    to the outboard on my pedals in order to get my feet far enough
    out so that my instep doesn't rub on the cranks.  Would a clipless
    pedal system be suitable for me?

    A few weeks ago I asked if anyone was familiar with the MKS
    clipless pedals, whose mechanism isn't like the others.
    
    Since then I've tried them, spent a week getting used to them,
    and changed to mingled hate/foreboding to enthusiasm for them.
    (I'd not previously used any clipless pedal system.)
    
    Ones feet are placed a bit farther out with clipless, and
    this took a couple of days to become properly knock-kneed,
    or whatever.  Also, the angle of attack was a bit different
    from how I had my cleats placed.  
    
    But I experienced no great pain (after getting used to the
    twist-movement extraction method), and think my knees will 
    not suffer.  (The MKS at least lets your feet adjust their
    angle a little bit - there is some play, which is good.)
    
    The system is a lot more comfortable than straps, and can
    be more efficient.  I just had to be sure I had a snug fit
    inside the shoe, to prevent feet sliding around a bit.
    
    -john
    

      I didn't know TIME had pedals for $300. or are you talking about shoes
    and pedals.  You don't have to use TIME shoes with TIME pedals.
    I think the most expensive pedals they sell are the new magnesium
    ones for around $240.  
      I am going to pick up my new TIME criterium pedals this week for
    $140.  Although this pedal is cheaper than the original design it
    is lighter, supposedly built better, still has the bio-kinetic foot
    action and has 35 degree cornering angle (I'm going to have to shorten
    my seat post bolt so I don't drag it through the corners).  I'll
    let you know how I like them.
    
    					Norm

     Do the clipless for sure! They ARE a heck of a lot safer and it
    will take you all of 15 seconds to get used to them. They're great
    and have NO RIVALS!
    
     Now, I have about 1700 mile on my TIME pedals and shoes. I love
    'em. One question was do they have lateral adjustment capabilities?
    NOPE, just back and forth. Are they expensive? YUP! The shoes will
    run about $136.00 in a store and the pedals are $170.00. There's
    your $300.00. You can save money through some places in magazines.
    I've seen ads that offer the combined purchase (shoes and pedals)
    for something like $220.00. The shoes are heavy though. I haven't
    had a lick of problems with either of them and I'm not a gentle
    rider.
     
     I just saw the add for the new magnesium TIME. This is a lot lighter
    than their conventional racing pedal. If you're interested in weight
    with TIME it's your only avenue (about 50g savings@).
    
     I can't comment on any other make (no experience. Everyone I've
    talked to loves theirs regardless of make/model. So, any decision
    is probably going to work for you. My advice is DO IT! You won't
    be sorry. One other plus to TIME is the lateral movement allowed.
    You knee joint isn't lock into a straight up & down motion. How-
    ever, other makes are now offering models with this capabilty.
    
     Chip

    
    By the by, TIME IS NOT LOOK comaptible!
                    ******
    
    Different set up. You'll need to match, but if you do go TIME it's
    not an issue. 
    
    Qualifying my statement: The racing set-up I have IS NOT LOOK
                             compatible!              ******
    
    I DO NOT consider this any kind of drawback either.
    
    Chip  :-)

    I have the Shimano clipless pedals (the cheaper Shimano) which are
    LOOK type pedals. I think they are even built by LOOK. I got mine
    because my feet went to sleep with clips and straps. and they are
    GREAT. Takes just a little time to get used to and once you get
    used to them you will not switch back. It is easier to get out of
    the pedals than with straps and ,on mine anyway the release can
    be adjusted. Don't plan to do a lot of walking with the clips on
    your shoes though, this adds to wear and tear on the clips.
    
    Joe

Has anyone used those velcro straps for their cleats. The ones used to keep the
upper of the cleat from coming away from the sole while using LOOK's. I am
having a problem getting my cleat to be tight enough. It seems that the leather
upper has stretched and with the velcro lace pulled all the way, its still 
not tight enough. I was hoping this strap would help. Its a lot cheaper than new
cleats.  If you use them do you get pressure points aka "hotspots" from them.

Tom

    	I got my Look pedals just before NEAR in 1985.  I promptly went
    out on an evening ride at NEAR and fell over when old habits made
    me try to pull back and out instead of twist out, when I came to
    a quick stop.  I then went down to Tiverton and did similar at TFCE.
    Again at GEAR Int'l at the Niagara Falls overlook.  These show a
    pattern: new surroundings, different people, many distractions.
    There were no instances of problems while riding locally. Things
    got better when I figured that on the recumbent, I could twist out
    easier by swinging my heel in rather than out.
    	I like the cheapest "ATB" Look, about $60 or so because it works
    as well as the high $$ Look  and allows using non-bike shoes on
    the other side of the pedal (club rides where you walk the bike
    for some reason).  Another handy gizmo is the Wildwood Look adapter
    that converts the Look pedal to a toe-clip-and-strap pedal temporarily.
    These make the Look system very versatile.  - Chris

< Note 1168.7 by MCIS2::DELORIEA "Common sense isn't" >
                           -< Straps for Strapless >-

I've been using them for over a year with no problems.  Don't seem to notice 
any pressure, and  its very easy to adjust the pressure, even while riding.  
Got mine at Performance.

    A friend of mine just started using the LOOK Clipon Pedals...on
    her second ride with them she didn't click out of them at an inter-
    section and fell over sideways... 8-( More embarassing then painful).
    But other than that she loves them, tho she has to be aware to
    click out when coming to a stop. You only have to fall over a
    couple of times before you remember to do so... ;-).
    
    She had one problem with them. The Brancale-sp? shoes that she has
    with the LOOK cleat, the cleat comes loose, because the screw holes
    in the bottom of the shoe are not deep enough to properly tighten
    down the cleat. So it comes loose after a few miles. I am going
    to bring it back to the bike shop tonight and see what can be done. 
    
    I am going to get a new bike next week with Sampson Pedals...so
    I'll let you know what I think of them.
                                                       
    -Arthur

< Note 1168.10 by EXIT26::SAARINEN >


>    She had one problem with them. The Brancale-sp? shoes that she has
>    with the LOOK cleat, the cleat comes loose, because the screw holes
>    in the bottom of the shoe are not deep enough to properly tighten
>    down the cleat. So it comes loose after a few miles. I am going
>    to bring it back to the bike shop tonight and see what can be done. 

The Look pedals come with 2 sets of screws, one set longer than the other.  
Make sure they're using the shorter screws where appropriate.  I've got over 
10k miles on Looks (3 pr shoes) and have never had a cleat come loose.

Kevin    

    
    RE: < Note 1168.11 by NAC::KLASMAN >
    
    Yes my girlfriend has been using the "shorter screws" all along.
    I took the shoes back to the International Bicycle Center in Alston
    where she bought the shoes. One of the sales persons suggested I
    I get a small thin lockwasher to use with the shorter screw. I will
    get some today and see what that will do to fasten down the cleat
    so there is no movement.
    
    I think that should work fine.
                            
    -Arthur

< Note 1168.12 by EXIT26::SAARINEN >

>    Yes my girlfriend has been using the "shorter screws" all along.

Hmm.  I'm really surprised that a shoe the (supposed) quality of a Brancale 
(?) has a sole that thin.  The reason I mentioned the length of the screw is 
that, more than once, while have the cleats RAD'd by guys who should know 
better, they've used the long screws and they could be felt trying to come up 
thru the insole.

Something doesn't sound right if you're still having that problem with short 
screws.

Kevin

They are great for one big reason, COMFORT!  Using clips and straps whould cut
off blood circulation and on long rides my big toe would rub against the clip
and become very sore.  I use the Mavic version of the original LOOK Comps, got
about 10K miles on them.

    I have about 4000 miles on Shimano Dura Ace Clipless pedals, and
    recently (last 1000 miles) they have developed a 'squeak'. One
    squeak per revolution. I've tried lubing them with WD-40 & such,
    but have not taken them apart yet - no luck, they still squeak.
    
    I don't think it's the shoes (cleats) since it squeaks with both
    different pair of shoes that I have (Shimano & Sidi), and the cleats
    are tight.
    
    I can't sneak up on anyone - they can hear the telltale "squeak,
    squeak, squeak" a mile away!!
    
    Has anyone had this problem? Does anyone really take pedals apart
    to regrease them?
    
    Mark

1) Often squeaking will be the sound of the plastic cleat rubbing against the
   metal pedal.  This may sound crazy but spray some furniture polish, like
   Pledge, on every once in a while.

2) My pedals dried out and started to squeak.  Since the bearing are sealed in
   a cassette a normal person can not service them.  In fact I found that not 
   too any shops knew how to service them either.  I was surprised to hear 
   that after looks have been around for three years that many good shops have
   never serviced a pair yet.  I had to pay $30 to get them serviced, sounds
   kind of steep but what choice did I have?  Believe it or not one shop
   suggested I just get a new pair!

    I've been using Aerolite pedals for six months now and love them.
    Comfort factor was the biggest advantage for me - no more blistered
    toes and 'dead' feet.  One problem though.  It's only happened to
    me once, but I've heard of it happening to others.  When standing
    up for a climb, it's possible for the pedal to release.  This can
    be nasty!  It seems that if you let the bike rock from side to side,
    this replicates the twisting release action.  Apart from this, I
    think they're great and would never go back to cleats.

    Richard   

    I just purchased a Centurion Expert last week that had
    Sampson Pedals. Since I had some minor mechanical difficulties
    with the bike, I have only have 11 miles on the bike. It
    has taken me some time to get the feel of clicking into the
    pedals with the cleats...I could be more comfortable, but
    that will come with time. They sure do help you spin and
    maintain a constant cadence. They take a little getting used
    to, but I like them...you just got to remember to click out
    before you absolutely need too, cuz by then it's too late. *CLunK* 8-(
    
    -Arthur

    	I've been toying with going clipless.  If I do, I want a
    pedal that doesn't need to be fit-kit-rad adjusted every time
    I take off my shoes (It's really that I have a knee condition
    already that I don't want to exegerate while experimenting
    with new pedals/clips).  I understand that the TIME system has
    enough lateral movement that they don't need any special
    alignment adjusting since your foot is allowed to travel in
    a natural arc.  Is this the *only* system that offers this
    feature?  What about CYCLEBINDING.  I understand that there
    pedal allows some movement and has a recessed housing on
    the shoe which allows you to walk more naturally since
    its flush with the sole.  Did any of you TIME owners try
    C.B. before you purchased time?  Are there any C.B. owners
    that would like to comment on why they selected C.B. over
    the others?  Thanks in advance for the advice.
    
    						Jerry

    Cyclebinding's idea is a good one, it hasn't seem to get off the
    ground.  With the major sponsorships TIME has had, there is greater
    chance that this system will survive.  I wish cyclebinding did take
    off, as an American company I would have preferred.  It has gone
    through new ownership last year.  One problem that Cyclebinding
    has, is that the binding is integral to the shoe.  If it wears out,
    you need new shoes.  Years ago it was stated that with hard riding
    the binding lifespan was a couple of years, you may need to confirm/
    disconfirm this statement.
    
    Because you can walk on Cyclebinding, there may be a greater chance
    of dirt/grit in the binding causing problems getting into the pedal.
    With TIME, there is no choice, they can't be walked on.
    
    Jerry, what size foot do you have, if it is close to mine, you are
    welcome to try my TIME system out sometime.
    
    steve

    RE: .-2
    
    Again, the MKS system allows a fair amount of play/adjustment.
    As others have pointed out, it's not a front-runner (like TIME
    or LOOK), in terms of sales, so it's not likely to become a
    standard.  But for now, I'm quite content.
    
    -john

    	Steve, thanks for the offer.  I'm a bit a sasquatch with an
    11 1/2.  I've seen the Cyclebinding Pedal (racing model) on sale 
    for $85, which is another consideration.  As you pointed out in
    the Time note, "they ain't cheap".	
    
    	John, I think the Time system allows 10 deg. of movement,
    the Cyclebinding might only be 5.  Do you know how much you
    get in the MKS System?  You might have stated it before, but
    what did they cost (Including Shoes if you need they are integral)?
    
    						Jerry

    re.22
    Jerry, make sure it is the current model of Cyclebinding, the old
    model didn't have that lateral play.  I know of shops around that
    have the old model hanging around.
    
    steve

      You might want to check out the new Mavic clipless pedal.  It
    is supposed to have the same amount of play as Time but is Look
    style and Look compatible.  I am happy with my Time Criteriums but
    they are a B*%&$ to walk in.
    
    						Norm

    RE: .21

    John, I just received a pair of MKS clipless pedals as a gift.  This is 
    my first pair of clipless pedals, so I really have nothing to compare 
    them to.  However, the quality of design and material seems excellent.

    Will the MKS cleat fit to a pair of shoes drilled for LOOK pedals?  If
    not, can you tell me what shoe can be used and how to correctly attach 
    the cleat to it?  The instructions that came with the pedals are a bit
    skimpy.

    Thanks,
    Denis

    
    Denis,
    
    Traditionally, MKS has put out well-made pedals.  My clipless MKS
    have held up, and I hope yours do, too.  The cleats mount to standard
    LOOK-drilled shoes, and most shoes come that way now.  (My Duegi's
    did, for example).  Just remove the standard cleats from such a shoe,
    and screw in the MKS cleats.  
    
    If your shoes are older and aren't LOOK-drilled, that can be done,
    but I'd almost go out and buy a new pre-drilled pair.  
    
    I agree, the instructions are strange and skimpy - perhaps the 
    Japanese text has more detail, but I can't verify that.  :-)
    
    The cleats come with two sets of three screws for each cleat.
    You use the shorter set of screws if they reach threads in the
    shoe-sole; otherwise use the longer set (as I have to).  Seat
    the rectangular "washers" in the square holes in the cleats,
    then screw them into the shoes.
    
    You have to tighten them down fairly hard so they won't shift
    when you twist in/out of the pedal.  It may take a little practice
    even without pedalling to get in/out of the pedal.  Remember: to
    exit, twist out and pull *back*, not *up* - the natural tendency
    with regular cleats is to draw your foot *up* out of the pedal,
    to clear it; this only makes you stick harder with the MKS - 
    so don't panic, just pull back/down, not up.
    
    Oh, by the way, I haven't had to adjust the tension (adjustments
    under the pedal) - try it without adjusting, first.
    
    I think that's about it.  Since MKS-usage doesn't seem to be 
    widespread, feel free to ask/report - and good luck!  
    
    -john

RE .26

John, many thanks for the advice.  You answered all my questions.

Spring is around the corner, so I had better get out and buy some riding
shoes!

Regards,
Denis