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Conference noted::bicycle

Title:	Bicycling
Notice:	Bicycling for Fun
Moderator:	JAMIN::WASSER

Created:	Mon Apr 14 1986
Last Modified:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	3214
Total number of notes:	31946

994.0. "Spaced_out ATB wheels" by NANOOK::BRALEY (Ed Braley DTN 263-6085) Mon Feb 13 1989 02:10

    
    
    	Well, it's almost spring and I'm really itching to get the road
    bike out and flex the legs, but, I've got some reservations about
    tooling around on 700x20c slicks with all the sand and junk from
    the winter.
    
    	So, today I got some new wheels for the mountain bike.  I don't
    like riding knobbies on the street and swapping tires to vary the
    riding is a real pain.  I was in REI in Reading MA today and they
    had a pair of Araya RM20s all laced up on Specialized sealed bearing
    hubs.  The hubs feel very smooth.  These are Wheelsmith built,
    serialized and all.  I got a pair of 26x1.25 Fat boys, tubes and
    rim straps, and a Shimano 600 freewheel.  Off to the work bench
    I went...
    
    	Well, the wheels fit in the frame just fine.  *Seemed* like
    they were true and centered.  So...I mounted the rubber and screwed
    down the free wheel.  
    
    	The front wheel was just fine, but when I tried to put the rear
    wheel in the frame something didn't look right. (?) What the f#$%?
    I took a closer look to see that the face of the axle nut was just
    inside the outer edge of the freewheel.  Then I looked at the wheel
    that I just pulled of the bike to see that the freehub side had
    the nut about a quarter an inch clear of the outer edge of the freehub.
    On closer inspection I noticed that the left side of the new wheel had 
    too much axle, in fact, there seemed to be a spacer that shouldn't have
    been there at all.  So, I ran up stairs and started to look through
    the bicycle magazines and catalogs.  Sure enough it appears that
    the hubs were assembled with a spacer on each side, when those in
    the catalogs had either a wide spacer or two smaller spacers on the 
    freewheel side.  (Notice, the original wheel has a Suzue freehub   
    and the new one has a freewheel.  I don't *think* that's my problem,
    and the mechanic said this would most likely be the case anyway.)
            
    Oh this is simple I thought... I'll just get the Shimano freewheel
    tool, pull off the freewheel, get the comb wrench and move the spacer
    to the other side and screw the axle over 5 or 6 threads.  The problem
    is that I don't have the Shimano tool or the narrow comb wrench.
    So...I'll to take it to the shop.... 
    
    I looked a little closer.....
    hmmm... It also appeared that the Wheelsmith wheel had a different
    dish ratio...This explained why the rim sat center in the frame
    before I attached the freewheel.  Now I figure that if I have the
    spacer swapped over, the rim won't be dished right and will sit off
    center in the frame.  The only way that I (novice that I am) can
    explain the condition of the wheel is this:  Wheelsmith got a rear
    hub that wasn't assembled properly and laced the whole assembly
    off center by a quarter of an inch.

    I don't know what to do.  I've already mounted the rubber.  The
    thing wasn't built right.  If they move the spacer the dishing will
    be off.  If they re-dish the wheel what happens to the spokes? 
    Will they be short on one side and long on the other?  I really
    like the wheels and I didn't think $145 for the rims, spokes and
    sealed hubs was too bad.  What should I do?  Dismount the rubber and
    return the wheels?  Return the whole mess?  Get the cash back and
    mail order some wheels? (that could be worse).
    Signed, eccentric :-)
    Ed.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
994.1	Take them back!	NAC::KLASMAN		`Mon Feb 13 1989 11:14`	5
	< Note 994.0 by NANOOK::BRALEY "Ed Braley DTN 263-6085" > -< Spaced_out ATB wheels >- I'd take them back (and probably take the bike in as well) and explain the problem. REI is pretty good about these things, from my experience.
994.2		WEA::BUCHANAN	Bat	`Mon Feb 13 1989 16:03`	14
	I would also suggest taking it back and having the shop look at it. I will also print out your note and take it to Wheelsmith next time I'm there (too bad I was just there last week). They are very professional and proud of their work. If there is ever any problems with one of their wheels they fix it no questions, no problems and no delay. Our office is about 5 or 6 miles away but unfortunatly I live in the opposite direction. DEC has an office about 2 block away (I think it's called the Stanford Research Labs or something like that) but I don't know anyone there. I have Specialized hubs on my mountain bike, I'll take a look tonight. I also had Specialized hubs on my last road bike, a Specialized Allez, and that wheel was dishless. No dish at all! It had wide spacers on the left side and could only take an ultra six freewheel (or normal five I guess). The mountain bike is not like this however.
994.3	Brought 'em back to REI	NANOOK::BRALEY	Ed Braley DTN 263-6085	`Tue Feb 14 1989 20:41`	8
	I called REI. They had me bring the wheels back. They said that if they couldn't adjust the spacing and redish the wheel they'd just rebuild the assembly with the proper spokes. In any case they'll make things right. I'll keep you posted. Ed.
994.4	It's fixed	NANOOK::BRALEY	Ed Braley DTN 263-6085	`Sun Feb 19 1989 15:59`	29
	Well, it's all set! I got the wheel back from the folks at REI Friday and the mechanic straightened it out. The wheel was assembled on a hub which was spaced incorrectly. The dishing was off. Apparently the spokes were kitted correctly because they were fine for the correct dishing. By the way, the top wrench at REI is a woman named Jackie. I was very impressed with her. I'm not sexist, but it seems that some women can be more patient and diligent in handicrafts, and I would call wheel building and trueing a skill that takes time and patience to get right. She can work on my bikes anytime. I had the bike out today with the new wheels and the Fat Boy slicks. What a blast this thing is with the road wheels! With 100 pounds pressure, the tires roll effortlessly and it handles like a dream. The 26" wheels have quick response, yet I can pull my hands off the bars, steer with body English and have good directional stability. ("Look Ma, no hands!" CRASH...:-) Just kidding, I don't advocate riding no hands, but the wheels don't feel too twitchy to do it, I'm just trying to make a point. I think that when I take off somewhere and throw the bike in the trunk so that I can tool around when I reach my destination I'll be taking the mountain frame and the road wheels. If you have a mountain bike and thought about trying the road tires I'd recommend that you do it. Ed.
994.5	GREAT!!!!!	MAILVX::HOOD_DO		`Mon Feb 20 1989 17:16`	12
	I'm glad things worked out.... a previous topic talked about slicks on a mountain bike, but no one ever commented on just how effective (on the street) they were. After riding a bit, you should give us a rundown on them. Do the present noticeably less rolling resistance? What type of knobbies did you ride before? How does the setup compare with a street bike? DO YOU THINK THAT YOU COULD RIDE A CENTURY ON THEM? Keep us posted!! doug
994.6	It's different for sure.	NANOOK::BRALEY	Ed Braley DTN 263-6085	`Thu Feb 23 1989 22:18`	50
	With the one ride that I took last weekend as my experience with the new slicks, I would say that they have signficantly less rolling resistance than the IRC Racer X1 Pro tires that came on the bike. Add the 100 psi factor to the smooth surface and it's easy to understand how this could be. The slicks and the RM 20 mountain rims are certainly heavier than road bike wheels, but the 26" diameter rims must have different moments of inertia when compared to 700mm road rims. There are too many factors for me to calculate it out. I have one of the last real British Raleigh Supercourse 12 speeds that I've ridden quite a bit over the last six years. I just had new wheels built for that bike to replace the old Weinmann concave rims and Mallard hubs that it came with. I had some Mavic MA40s laced to five speed Campy Record hubs with DT fifteen guage spokes. I haven't ridden it yet so I can't say how she'll go, but they spin much more smoothly than the old wheels. I don't think that the mountain bike will out-accelerate the the road bike in a fixed gear burst, but the mountain bike has indexed shifters at my finger tips. I bet I could bang a few gears and maintain a strong push for speed that wouldn't be possible on the road bike due to the friction mode down tube shifters. I've noticed some road race bikes with the new index bar cons......hmmmm.... I'll have to ride with some of my friends. They'll be ridding their road bikes and I'll alternate between the mountian and the road biek to see if there's a significant difference. My goal wasn't to make the mountain bike as fast (or faster) than the road bike, just to make it more suitable for early season training and better for 'round town cruisin when I didn't feel like wearing the cleats. The mountin bike position is much more comfortable when your just toolin' around some touristy spot, and more manueverable despite being five or six pounds heavier. I'd much rather ride the mountain bike with the new road wheels on some of our frost heaved New England back roads! Could I ride a century on it? Don't know, never rode a century on the road bike either. Just 50 milers. I think I might get tired of the single hand position after a while. I've been thinking about doing some touring on it this summer. I checked earlier notes on mountain bike touring. I don't recall seeing any entries from people who have actually set the bikes up for touring and gone off and done it. Any one out there? I might want some rack/pannier suggestions. Ed.