Conference noted::bicycle

    Buy a Yakima, they cost the same and they are much higher quality.
    

    Well, that's just an OPINION that Yakima are better racks than Thule!
    MY opinion, after comparing both types, is that Thule is better!
    
    Anyway, I'd check with Dave Rivetts. He has really reasonable prices
    on Thule stuff. Call him at DTN 297-6862 or USMRW2::DRIVETTS (VAXMail).
    
    Mark
    

    	Well, I agree with Mark. A friend and I both have Thule
    	racks (Swedish made), and yellow Saabs (Swedish made) 8-)>
    	and the rack is certainly well made. You can also purchase
    	many variations for the original, basic rack, in other words,
    	fixtures to carry skis, surfboards, etc.
    
    	I'd go with the Thule.
    
    	Scott

    You bring up an interesting point Scott.  We should probably get
    one of each rack - the Thule for the Volvo, and the Yakima for the
    Chevy.
    
    	-Nancy

    re .3:
    
    Yakima also has attachments for skis, surfboards, etc., all that
    Thule has and more.  Plus... Yakima has mounts for any kind of car.
    I happen to have a Toyota MR2 with an effective roof-line of 18".
    Also,  you need tools to attach certain Thule parts, bike trays,
    etc.  On my Yakima EVERYTHING is added or removed by hand. 
    Plus... if any of you saw coverage of this years COORS on ESPN and
    noticed the Campy car going over a ledge;  I spoke with a high-level
    guy from Yakima and he told me that the YAKIMA racks were still
    attached to the rain-gutters, the rain-gutters had separated from
    the car first.  This should alleviate any doubts about how secure
    the racks are.  The only reason Thule's are more popular here in
    the Northeast is because YAKIMA hasn't actively marketed their products
    here until recently.  Yakima is a California based company and they
    were concentrating out west first.
    
    P.S. Yakima has a new device for '89 that Thule doesn't:  A clamping
    device that easily attaches/detaches from the rack to let you work
    on your bike like the blackburn workstand.
    

    re .6:
    When I said they were from California I knew what I was talking
    about.  If you want to nit-pick, they are in Arcata, CALIFORNIA.
    I know because I have one of their business cards, plus I have spoken
    to people in the main office many times.  By the way, Arcata is
    located in Northern CALIFORNIA about as far as you can go before
    you cross into Oregon.
    
    abc
    

    I am very pleased with mt Yakama. Right now it is set up to mount
    2 tamdems, 1 single, and one bugger. When you put $5000+ worth of
    bike on top you better be pleased with your rack. I have had mine
    for 4 years. It came with aircraft mounts (for the LTD) and I converted
    it to gutter mount for my Caravan. The bugger mount is custom made
    by myself with a few peice parts ordered from Yakima in Califorina.
    
    sheldon

    A strong vote for Yakima.
    
    Frankly, both systems are good, and you can't go wrong with either.
    
    However, when you start looking at the details- fit, design, quality
    of materials, range of options the answer is pretty clear - Yakima
    outshines Thule by a mile.
    
    There are special cases however- for some cars with special fitting
    requirements each has its strong points (but again, Yakima seems
    to now account for more of these special cases in a more elegant
    way).  The problem in the past has been cars with short roof lines
    and interal rain gutters.
    

    another vote for yakima,  "customer service"
    
    when shopping for a rack last year, i needed a special mount, when
    I called Yakima they told me it would be ready May 15, and that
    they would  priory ship one to the dealer nearest me with a note
    to call me when it arrived, I had my rack on May 20. They seemed
    to care, followed up with a postcard, all for a $28 item.

    I have a Yakima and my girlfriend has a thule. We found that the
    Yakima is much better than the Thule. First the bike adapters for
    the thule are chinzy and a pain to install and remove if you are
    doing it more than once a year. The Thule rack would not support
    the weight of three windsurfers - it bent. We are often putting
    3 windsurfers and 2 bikes on the Yakima with no problems. the Yakima
    accessories are very easy to install and remove. The ski rack for
    the yakima is much nicer since it can be folded down when not in
    use to cut down on noise and reduce drag. 

    The only problem is that because the Yakima is on my car I end up
    doing most of the driving.
        
    Paul
    
    
    
    

    I bought a Thule rack at REI for my Honda Prelude.  When I found
    out
    that the ski mount I had gotten would not take X-Country skis, I
    took it back.  The salesperson at REI said why not exchange the
    whole thing for a Yakima.
    
    I've found that the Yakima is easier to put on and off, that you
    don't have to take it apart to remove your ski mount, ski mount
    turns flat to lessen drag and wind noise, etc.
    
    Overall, the Yakima strikes as a more up-to-date design than the
    Thule.  I'm happy with it and happy with REI for making the switch.
    
    Pat 

    
    Has anyone tried to mount either of these on a Bronco II???  The
    Bronco has limited gutters and I don't see a place to do the mounting.
    
    The rack on the Bronco now says "100 lbs MAX"...  That kinda worries
    me about buy the Ford rack.  Anyone out there with a Bronco???
    
    Stew

    RE: -.1
    
    Yakima has brackets which must be permanently mounted on a Bronco
    type roof to adapt it to the standard Yakima rack (I believe Thule
    might have a similar set-up).  What these little brackets do is
    simulate a small section of rain gutter.  They also allow you to
    maximize the distance between the front and rear bars (which is
    important if your carrying canoes).  I've never seen them installed,
    but they look ok based on pictures in the Yakima catalog.

    I have a related question about the different types of bike carriers
    available for Yakimas.  Two basic types exist: (1) the standard
    front fork mount/rear wheel tie down, and (2) the down tube
    clamp/front-rear wheel tie down (I believe this is the GT model).
    Is one inherently "better" than the other?  Will a fine road racing
    bike be better treated with the first type?  Is the second type
    better for mountain bikes?

>    Has anyone tried to mount either of these on a Bronco II??? 

    I have, the THULE.  The distance between the 3 inches of gutter in the
rear and the 2 feet of gutter in the front is too great for my bike
accessory to work (the accessory is the kind where the mount-points
are the front fork and the rear wheel).  Since I can move the rear
gutter with my HAND, I would not put anything heavy on it anyway.
Also, the gutter grabbers to not seem to fit very snugly.

Steve - wishing he got a YAKIMA

< Note 960.15 by CURIE::HUPPERT >
                           -< Yakima bike carriers? >-

{    I have a related question about the different types of bike carriers
{    available for Yakimas.  Two basic types exist: (1) the standard
{    front fork mount/rear wheel tie down, and (2) the down tube
{    clamp/front-rear wheel tie down (I believe this is the GT model).

I believe that the front fork mount/rear wheel tie down is a slightly more
stable mount than the down tube clamp version.  The reason to use the latter
type is a bike whose front wheel does not come off (or come off easily) like
a lot of mountain bikes that don't have quick-release's (or track bikes for
those hard-core types).

       Wouldn't the fork mount would apply stresses that the fork was 
    not designed for?

    I can't imagine any stress being placed on the front fork when
    it's riding on your rack.  I suppose it depends on the tightness 
    of the lock on the dropout.
    
    When I purchased the fork-mounted rack (for two bikes) the
    person in the store said the GT model made your bike less
    stable while riding on top.  The fork-mount gives you a much
    tighter, more secure fit.  I'm glad I took his advise and
    didn't buy the GT.  When I mount my bike on top, the 
    whole car rocks when I move the frame of the bike.  This
    bike ain't goin' nowhere.
    
    I have the model which fits over the rain gutter.  It comes off
    and on in a minute.  Another vote for YAKIMA!
    
    AAA

>    I can't imagine any stress being placed on the front fork when
>    it's riding on your rack.

    I have heard of people wrecking their fork when one side comes loose
    and the bike falls to the side.  The result was a bent front dropout.

    Once the bike is clamped in, there will be stress but not much.

    -Jeff

    I probably figured as much.  The lock on the skewer of the rack
    operates the same as your front wheel quick release.  If you don't 
    tighten it properly so that it won't come loose, you're asking
    for trouble, stress or otherwise.
    
    Put it on a car which has a sunroof and you can manually reach up
    and make any adjustments as you're driving along.  Normally, none
    are required.
    
    AAA
    

    I have an 84 Bronco II that I use a gutter type rack from Sears
    (very old) that I use to carry a canoe with. I just put the front
    rack near the top front corner of the door and the rear rack on
    the short gutter at the rear. I've never had any problems with that.
    I know that Yakima has a bike trough that is longer than the standard
    one. It's called an SRL for short roof line, but I imagine you could
    turn it around the other way and use it to extend the rear rack
    mount forward. You'd need to measure the distance between the rear
    gutter and the back of the front gutter to see if it would span
    far enough forward. Another possibility would be to use a board
    to span the distance between the racks and attach the trough to
    that (a kluge, I'll admit).

    I'm deciding between a Thule or a Yakima rack system for my Saab.  
I think the Yakima system is a better one, but I have one concern.  
Thule has a rack designed specifically for the Saab (900).  With the 
Yakima, there seems to be some additional hardwre required for use on 
a Saab.  I haven't checked this out thoroughly yet.  Any experience 
with this?

    /Phil

    re: -.1
    
    > Thule has a rack designed specifically for the Saab (900).
    
    Don't know how well the Yakima works on a Saab 900, but would think
    twice about buying a rack specifically designed for any particular
    car.  I'm hoping to keep the same basic rack over multiple car
    purchases.  With Yakima (and most Thule) racks, you buy the basic
    unit, and adapters to fit each specific car.
    

    ST600 owners unite.  Mine is a boring blue '89.  It's interesting to see
    the price remain close.  I paid a little under $600 for mine and it
    didn't come with a rack.  But the dealer sold me one for 50% off.  At
    least that's what he told me.  If you find one, buy it quick.  The 91
    line has ended.  Now you may have to wait for 92.
    
    -Marty

    
    	Any new info on roof racks/carriers?
    
    	I stopped at Landry's yesterday to take a look at Thule racks
    	and they wanted $275-$325 for a 2-rail, frame-clamp carrier
    	[the $50 difference was a better pair of hinged frame clamps]
    	and I thought that was kind of ridiculous.  But my father said
    	he wasn't too surprised, so I guess I just wasn't prepared for
    	the initial shock.
    
    	So now I'm thinking about the fork-mount carrier ... seems that
    	the concensus here is that they are more stable, and it's easy
    	to toss the front wheel into the back of the car.
    
    	So is Yakima still a better rack, or has Thule caught up to them
    	by now?  And what should I expect to pay for a 2-rail fork-mount
    	carrier?
    
    	And where's the best place to buy one?  Somewhere between Marlboro
    	and Attleboro [and local RI locations] would be good.
    
    	Thanks for any info.
    

    The price difference between Yakima and Thule is negligible.  I bought
    Yakima because it was available to me at a big discount.  Thule seems to 
    be more popular though.  In retrospect, I think the Thule would have fit
    better than the Yakima on my car, Taurus.  They both offer locking 
    kits, fork mounts or clamp mounts etc. etc.
    
    Brian  

RE: <<< Note 960.26 by BUSY::SLABOUNTY "Trouble with a capital 'T'" >>>

I bought a Yakima rack plus other bits a couple of years ago (for a Toyota
Tercel wagon). I like it a lot. It was expensive (in absolute terms) however.
I think it was more than $300 for the 2 moderately wide bars, 4 mounting
towers, 2 short rear-wheel trays, 2 fork-mount blocks, and 2 wheel forks, but I
don't recall exactly. I also got 2 of the six-pair ski mounts at a later date,
and I think the total for all this stuff was over $400. 

I don't leave the rack on the car unless I'm using it, as I don't want it to
weather over the years when it's doing nothing. Taking it off and puting it on
takes a few minutes of easy work. I like the round bars of the Yakima because
it allows mounting components to be rotated out of the airsteam when not being
used (e.g., I keep both wheel forks on the rear bar but sometimes only use one,
so I can rotate the other down flat). 
						-- Tom

I bought the Yakima (in March).  My brother, the managing editor for _Men's
Fitness_ did a review of both companys and Yakima came out ahead in customer
service.  I like the round bars better for the reason mentioned in .-1, but also
because things fit on round bars much more easily.  The difference in identical
configurations is about $10 -- I paid a bit over $300 for the dual bike carrier,
even though I only have one bike.  I figured some day I'd want to carry two.  It
has come in handy in that taking the rack off the car and putting it back on is
easier since two trays keep the rack square.  The Yakima fit my (1992) Honda
Accord better than the Thule.  I've heard that Yakima is bigger if you go futher
west.

Tim

    re :.26
    
    Is there a reason why you are not considering trunk mount style racks?
    We bought a very good quality (made by Hollywood racks) for around
    $100.00 , they claim it carries up to four bikes, we carry usually 
    two mountain bikes and sometimes a road bike too. It hooks up in
    seconds on both my girlfriends mini van, and my sports car. So it
    adapts to any type car. It doesn't have a locking mechanizem, but I 
    use my bicycle lock to lock the bikes to the rack. 
    
    Shaw

    Shawn, whatever you get, whether Thule or Yakima, they are both high
    quality rigs.  Take a free clue from the voice of experience and make
    sure you understand that you now have another 48" or so on top of your
    car before you zip into the McDonald's drive through, garage, or in my
    case, the front desk at the Sugarloaf Inn.  
    
    We tooled into the reception area with the overhanging roof got out and
    went to the front desk.  From where I was standing, it looked like the
    fascia board on the roof hung down lower than the seats on the bikes! 
    I went out and sure enough, that was the case.  We pulled in at a spot
    that someone else had already taken a chunk of wood out so we slid in
    neat as can be!  There was probably less than 1/8" clearance where we
    ducked under the roof.  I sheepishly lowered the seats before we backed 
    out :-).  No damage done except to my battered pride.  
    
    Brian

    
    	Well, I ended up with a rear-mount.
    
    	I'll go find the appropriate note.
    

    
    	And Brian, you are a lucky man ... even luckier than Jack.
    
    	8^)
    

    Definitely that day for sure!  :-)

    re: .32
    
    If you decide to re-consider a roof rack, here's one more vote for
    Yakima.  Another advantage of the round bars is that it's easy to 
    make accessories that attach via U-bolts.
    
    I will admit that a Thule rack stood up to a friend driving into a
    parking garage at Logan airport with the bike on top.  Bent the
    bike trough and took the gel out of his saddle but the bike stayed 
    on the rack and the rack stayed on the car.
    
    I had a hatch-mount rack for a very short time and I much prefer
    having the bikes on the roof -- no problem getting into the trunk
    either.  Of course, with the rearmost seat removed from the minivan,
    four bikes and four riders fit inside with no rack at all...     (-:
    

I've got a question for anyone with a Taurus or Sable wagon that has a
Yakima or Thule bike/ski roof rack.

My Taurus wagon already has a pretty good luggage rack on the car.  Can I use
any part of this existing rack with a Yakima or Thule kit to hold bike trays
with fork mounts and/or ski holders?  Or do you pretty much ignore what's there
and just use the entire Yakima or Thule system?

    They both make adaptors to fit accessories for factory racks.  See the
    display for their racks and the more popular ones should be there. 
    Check your rack load specs though as the factory racks will not hold as
    much as the aftermarket systems.  
    
    Brian

re. .36

	We have a Sable wagon.  We looked at both Yakima and Thule.  We went
with Yakima because with their tower system they will rate it to the full
200 pounds as specified in the Ford/Mercury manaual.  Thule would only rate
their system to 100 pounds.
	For the Yakima you have to buy the Tower 1 components and the
cross bars.  The tower pieces cost about $65. and the bars about $30.
To mount the towers use a number 25 TORX wrench to remove the front factory
cross bar.  At this time you can remove the other factory pieces including the
rear cross bar by sliding them out or simply move them to the rear.  (An "L"
shaped number 25 TORX wrench is included in the tower kit.)
	Next slide in the "B" size rectangular nuts into the side rails.
Position them where you want your crossbars and attach the towers as directed
using the spacers provided. (Note: a pencil helps get the tower hole, spacer
and nut aligned before trying to fasten with the long bolt.)

	As for attaching bike racks to the factory cross bar...Ford may
sell something but I don't remember anything from the Yakima catalog.

Ric

         We have a Sable wagon.  I spent much too much time modifying some
    Rola tracks to fit the existing rack (actually I removed the front bar
    and got a second rear bar so I could remove the whole set up).  After
    doing all this, I discovered that the factory bars are not flat so the
    bikes lean and they are too flexible.  I use the set up but add straps
    to support the bikes side to side.  I would not encourage anyone to
    follow my path.
    
    Regards,
    Tom

    I would just like to put in a vote for the faring on the Yak Rack.  I
    got one recently and it made things MUCH quieter.  I haven't tried
    driving with the sunroof open to see if it has solved the problem of
    air being deflected INTO the cockpit by the rack without the faring.
    
    It's up to you to determine if the ~$50 price is worth it.  I got one
    because I had a 20% discount coupon for my local bike shop.
    
    Bob