Conference noted::bicycle

    
    I must admit, I've never heard of anyone breaking a freewheel trying
    to take it off. They get on there real tight though....  Maybe 
    he used the wrong tool......
    
    To remove a freewheel you should use a vise. Put the tool in the
    vice and turn the wheel.  I've heard of peopld putting a wrench
    on the tool and smacking it with a hammer, but that sounds like
    a horror show to me!
    
    Stew
    

    
    If it was an old Regina notched freewheel, and was on the bike for
    10 years, count yourself LUCKY he could get it off at all. Those
    FW's had a very thin piece of metal where the removal tool grabs
    the FW, and broke (more like ripped) very easily. Later versions
    use the more common splines. There is even an easy-out type tool
    made by Bicycle Research which will remove one of these FW's if
    it's hopelessly stuck, but it can ruin the FW in the process. Sounds
    like he had to use one of those.
    
    Realize that the 6 spd. FW you'll have now is a narrow spaced one,
    and will shift quite a bit differently than your old one.
    
    CdH
    

	It's not impossible to really mess up a freeheel.  Part of
	the difficulty is that there are so many different kinds that
	you can get a remover that almost but not quite fits.  The
	result will be a freewheel with its notches or splines all
	chewn up.

	Here's how to remove a freewhel:

	1. Get the right freewheel remover.

	2. Take off the locknut and cone from the freewheel side if
	they are going to be in the way of the remover.

	3. Put the freewheel remover in place and use the lock nut or
	quick release to hold it there.  If you use the lock nut,
	make it only finger tight.

	4. Use a vise (preferred) or the biggest wrench you've got.
	Apply torque in the right-handed direction (normal), just
	enough to get it to move.  Loosen the lock nut or QR and then
	unscrew some more.

	N-1. Do any adjustment to the bearings before you put the
	freewheel back on; you won't be able to reach the right side
	cone afterwards.

	N. Be sure to grease the freewheel threads when you
	reassemble.  It will tighten on its own.


   Regarding spoke protectors:
	I agree that an adjusted rear changer will not have any
	problems.  But.... every so often it will be out of
	adjustment,  either from damage or from wear.  Considering
	the damage that occurs if the derailer does fall into the
	spokes, I will wear one on my bike.

-Jeff Bell

    Your new freewheel may require you to use a narrower chain to get
    it to work well and without adding additional wear to the freewheel.
     I recommend a sedis for narrow spaced freewheels
    
    Paul Dunn
    
    

> Is there any way of finding out whether the guy was incompetent or not, 
> at least in freewheel removal?  

	It would be hard to tell if he was taking reasonable care.

> Has anyone else broken a freewheel?

	I've never seen one damaged in removal unless the damage was caused
	by incorrect use of the remover.  Most of my experience is with
	Suntour.  I can't recall any Italian brands of freewheel except
	maybe Campagnolo (which you wouldn't find on a cheap bike and which
	you probably couldn't break if you tried).

> He'll be putting in a $18 Suntour 6-speed (my old one was 5-speed, I hope 
> the derailleur can handle it).  

	If it's a narrow (a.k.a. Ultra) spaced freewheel (six cogs in 
	the space of an old 5 cog) then you may need to replace the 
	chain.  If it is a normal spaced six speed freewheel then he
	would probably have to replace the axel and stretch the frame
	a bit (6 speed freewheels are 3mm wider than 5 speed).

	Doesn't he have a nice $11 Suntour Perfect 5 speed freewheel?

> I'll be looking in Nashbar for a removal tool.  

	They have 2 prong and 4 prong Suntour removers for 2.89.
	They also have Maillard for $4.80 and Shimano splined for $4.90

	Performance has the Suntour 2 prong for $1.95 (better) and 
	4 prong for $2.95 (worse).  They also have two styles of
	Regina remover for $4.95.

> Can someone, in 14 lines or less, describe the removal process?  

1)Remove the quick-release skewer completely.  Place the remover tool prongs or
2)splines in the slots in the freewheel body.  Put the quick-release skewer,
3)MINUS THE LITTLE CONICAL SPRINGS, back through the hub (preferably with
4)the handle on the side away from the freewheel).  Tighten the skewer
5)finger tight over the freewheel remover (this is important because if
6)the remover isn't held against the body of the freewheel, it may tip
7)and slip out of its slots... this can damage the slots).  Apply a large
8)wrench (usually a little under 1" open end wrench) counterclockwise to
9)the remover or clamp the remover faces in a vice and turn the wheel
10)counterclockwise JUST UNTIL THE FREEWHEEL POPS LOOSE (1/10 turn max!).
11)Loosen the skewer a bit and turn the remover some more.  By the time
12)you get the freewheel turned one full turn you can remove the skewer
13)and turn the remover with your fingers.        (And 1 line to spare!)

> Do I need a vise or other tools (besides a good book)?

	You either need a vice or a large wrench.  The wrench I use is
	a 1" open end wrench.  It is a little large so I put a thin
	metal plate (a cone wrench, usually) between the wrench and
	one side of the remover.

    Thanks for all your replies.

    Re: .5
>   Doesn't he have a nice $11 Suntour Perfect 5 speed freewheel?
    He didn't have any 5-speeds on hand.  The one he put on was a $18!!
    Suntour Perfect 6 speed (I can't find it in Nashbar - is it obsolete?).

    He also said I didn't need a new hub, derailleur or chain.  Does that
    sound logical?   (Again, sorry I can't supply makers for my existing
    hardware, although it probably was original equipment on my several-
    year-old Schwinn LeTour.)

    
    Re: .5
    
    The Regina I mentioned is Italian
    
    Re: .6
    
    Sounds like it's a narrow freewheel, you may need a new chain
    
    CdH
    

I need some advice on removing what I believe is an old Shimano freewheel.
After removing the skewer and the axle (for repacking the bearings), I 
decided I wanted to replace the 6 year old freewheel (I don't use this
bike much). I couldn't find any notches or splines to remove the whole
freewheel. I did get two wrenches with the chains attached to them and
removed the cogs from the freewheel body. This bike is about 6 years old
and is equiped with Shimano 600 components. The cogs, chain, and rear
derailer are all VERY similar to S.I.S. components. The cogs are slightly
angled to help the chain into a gear. The chain is a narrow one. The 
derailer has a adjustment nob on it to adjust the cable tension. However,
the shifting is NOT S.I.S. I can't tell what make the freewheel is. The
whole setup could easily be made into sis by just changing the shifters.
Looking into the rear hub does reveal two small notches just outside the
bearing races, but I have not been able to find a removal tool that will
fit these notches. They are smaller than the ones on my suntour freewheel.
Is there anyplace I can find one of these tools? The only place I have 
looked is the Nashbar catalogue. Is there some other way to get this thing
off?????


Thanx
Mano

< Note 421.8 by CIMAMT::CHINNASWAMY "The Mindless Cannibal" >
                   -< Help removing old Shimano? freewheel >-

>Looking into the rear hub does reveal two small notches just outside the
>bearing races, but I have not been able to find a removal tool that will
>fit these notches. They are smaller than the ones on my suntour freewheel.

I believe the notches on the old Shimano freewheels are smaller... you 
definitely need the right tool.  I had an old, inexpensive bike (circa 1982)
with Shimano stuff on it that had a cassette freehub, so...

You should try your local bike shops... they may have the tool.

Kevin

    Did the the lower gears all come off together?

    Was the right bearing race out by the end?  (It sounds like it was
    if you were able to clean it.)

    If so, then it's probably one of those shimano cassette hubs that I was
    whining about in a recent note.  If it's on a 198[23] nashbar bike,
    then it's probably real similar to what I had.

    Think twice before taking off the peice with two notches behind the
    rear bearings.  It's the cup for the rear bearing, but also
    it's the cone for the freewheel.  I think that it's left-hand threaded.
    If you take it off, there will be about 70 little ball bearings around.

    -Jeff


    

The freewheel came off by removing the 6th gear by unscrewing it.
The rest of the gears just pulled off in one unit. Is this the same
as a cassette unit? I figured since my bike is so old that it can't
possibly have a cassette hub. It definately looks different from the
outside than a cassette hub.

Mano

    RE .12
    
    	You've taken the cogs off the freewheel body, but the body is
    still on the hub.   In a cassette hub, the freewheel body is
    a part of the hub, otherwise it will screw off.   It is often
    very hard to get freewheels off, sometimes even impossible.   The
    best way is to attach a 'freewheel tool' for that brand of
    freewheel, to the freewheel body, using the quick-release lever.
    then clamp the freewheel tool in a bench vise, and crank it off
    using the leverage of the wheel.   A bench vise *really* helps.
    Sometimes it helps to have two people crank on the wheel.
    
    	If you have a cassette hub there will be no space between
    the axle and the freewheel body, into which the tool slips.
    On a cassette hub the axle emerges from the bearing at the
    outside edge of the freewheel, while in the regular type of
    rear wheel, the axle extends in under the freewheel, and the bearings
    are concealed by the freewheel body.
    
    	You need a freewheel tool to remove the body, since you need to 
    screw if off in the direction that it ratchets.   The tool slips inside
    the body of the freewheel, in a place that doesn't ratchet.
    Each brand of freewheel has it's own style of notches, thus
    a different freewheel tool design.   They're usually under $10.

	I do 99% of my own bike work, but one of the very few things
    I often ask for help on is freewheel removal.   My shop only
    charges 3 to 5 $$ for the job, and charges nothing for the
    tools they break, or if they can't get it off.    I have a wheel
    at home now with a freewheel forever welded to the hub.   :-(
    Since the freewheel is no good, I have to get a new rear wheel.
    It's broken three freewheel tools, a vise, and two shops have
    given up on it.   I am considering it's future in macrame...
    
	If you *do* get your freewheel off, be *sure* you grease
    the threads before putting it back on.   Otherwise it may never
    come off again.   You screw it on harder with each pedal stroke.
    the wheel I mentioned above, *did* have grease when it was
    assembled, but even so it's stuck forever.

    						Alan.

    When I used to change freewheels before a race, I'd take a nice
    10" crescent wrench and attach it to the freewheel tool.  Then
    I'd wedge the wheel against the back bumper of the car, and step
    on the handle of the wrench.  This always seemed to work.
    
    MATT

>    When I used to change freewheels before a race, I'd take a nice
>    10" crescent wrench and attach it to the freewheel tool.  Then

Gee, Matt, that's too short of a Crescent wrench (I have a French one, 
so I usually refer to it as a croissant wrench, but... :-) ). If'n 
you're thinking about getting a wrench for this purpose, getcher self a 
15" wrench like mine. Turns out the jaw openings are big enough with 
this size wrench to handle headset/BB/whatever nuts in almost any 
configuration I've seen, where 10 & 12" wrenches don't quite hack it....

.... and freewheels come off REAL easy!
                                              ken