Conference noted::bicycle

    re .0
    
    Sorry, but there is a real reason behind all the complaining.  I
    come to this issue from the other side, I build and maintain large
    sections of trail in the Whites, (not AMC trail, the DOC maintains
    120 miles of trail) and can vouch for the damage that bikes of any
    kind can do to a trail.  The basic problem is that most of these
    trails are not designed for bikes, but bikers still go on them.
    The erosion is very sudden and permanent.  All it takes is a couple
    of tracks and then a good rain to turn a section of trail into a
    mud pit.
    
    You can build trail for mountain bikes but it is hard work.  If
    you want to do it, go right ahead, and I encourage people who want
    to ride to do so.  The snowmobilers have learned how to build trail
    and have many miles of trail exclusively for that.  Also, there
    are plenty of dirt roads which are perfect for biking which really
    don't lend themselves to hiking.  I know that all the trail I worked
    on is posted no bikes and they will stay like that.  Most of the
    AMC, GMC etc, trails don't encourage bikes and the wilderness areas
    forbid them.
    
    It's not just California.
    
     -Dave-
    

    Right on - I sort of view mountain bikes as being in the same
    category as aerosol cans with chloroflourocarbons. Ride 'em on
    your own property, but keep off of my hiking trails...

    
    I ride my ATB in the foothills of Los Angeles, and don't see what
    damage I am doing. An ATB + rider is putting about as much weight
    per square inch on the ground as a hiker. The only time I put a
    track in the ground is if I TRY TO. Just riding the trails for the
    scenery and exercise is not hurting them any more then a hiker,
    and a lot less then a horse.
    
    On the other hand, John Tomac clones, who ride every trail as if
    they were in a race are a different story. Slides and skids, caused
    by excessive speed will tear up a trail. I save that type of stuff
    for the same trails the Motorcycles do it on.
    
    						--- Neal

    I really think the issue of trail damage caused by mountain bikes
    is being exaggerated.  However, the issue of safety is a very real.
    I'm sure many mountain bikers are cranking as fast as they can,
    and the potential of a collision with a hiker is great.  I wouldn't
    want to be hiking on a narrow trail and get slammed by a mountain
    bike going 15 or 20 mph!  
       
    I have a mountain bike myself, and I would never take it on a hiking
    trail.  There are plenty of other places to ride.
    
    As for motorcycles, there's always some SOB riding with an expansion
    chamber (this is a VERY loud exhaust system) and disturbing everyone
    within a two mile radias.  I really wouldn't mind seeing these banned
    in more places. (I'm referring to the TRAIL motorcycles)
    
    Denis
                                                    
    

    
    re .4:
    
    I agree, collision is a problem. Rules governing the use of trails
    may be needed. But simply closing off the trails to those of us on
    two wheels is over kill.
    
    						--- Neal

    The problem as I understand it(this info comes from a ranger working
    in the pike national forest) is that the wheel imprint left in soft
    dirt or mud acts like a channel in which the water is caught. As
    the water flows the erosion starts along the track and continues
    to become deeper until the trail has washed away.
    I'm very much against riding on hiking trails because of this reason
    and the problems presented with passing(or being passed) on a narrow
    trail with a loaded pack.
    Funny I was losing on this very subject in the Colorado notes file just
    yesterday.
    It is my belife that horses donot cause the same damage only because
    their footprint dosent form a nice neat channel for erosion to start
    in. They do cause damage at a diffrent level of course.
    
    -j
    

    Also, on trails here in the Whites, we put in rock steps rather
    frequently, and there is no way a rider can make it up them.  They
    are left with two choices, carry their bikes or ride around the
    steps in the woods.  This leads to awful erosion problems.  Waterbars
    were also not made to be ridden over and often get knocked out by
    bikes.  Trails that don't have rock steps or waterbars and are dry
    should be fine for bikers, but don't say that bikes don't cause
    damage until you've had to close trails to everyone because they
    have turned into a bog.
    I think the answer is education.  If you keep bikes (and hikers)
    off of trails in mud season, most of the problems will go away.
    But some bikers insist on going on trails that really can't handle
    them, and that ruins it for everyone.
    
    Ahem, I should really relax more before writing these things. :-)
    
     -Dave-
    

    Hi,
    
    As an owner of a mountain bike I find that there are still many
    places to ride.  I would like to know how a hiking trail is defined.
    I have ridden and carried my bike over the entire AMC skyline trail
    in the Middlesex Fells.  I am wary of using wide forest roads for
    the same reason hikers tend to stay off them.  I'm very worried
    about getting hit by some ATV rider.  I wonder if the person who
    understands snowmobile trails knows what kind of damage they do
    to the environment.  One thing that has always irked me are the
    people who complain about mountain bikes but are too frightened
    to complain about off-road motorcycle use which is more devastating.
    
    
    Joe

    I like biking hiking trails for the same reasons I like hiking them
    - scenery, plus they tend to have the right grade.  Biking
    on dirt roads is like kissing your sister - boring.  Mountain biking
    on good trails has the excitement of dirt biking (e.g. picking your
    way through tough spots, lots of speed on the downhills) yet you're
    not making all the racket, polluting the environment, and hopefully
    not scaring to death hikers or tearing up trails.  You're also getting
    a great workout, enjoying the scenery and the out of doors.

    I'm not saying the above as 'gospel truth' - just trying to tell
    you why I like mountain biking.  Obviously, from other replies,
    ATBs do tear up the trails.  I didn't realize how much and I don't
    think most mountain bikers do.  I think gathering and disseminating
    information on this could go along way to help both sides.

    Here in Colorado, I don't think the problems with erosion are as
    bad as in the mountains back east.  We don't get that much rain
    and you can count on your fingers the number of days in a year when
    things are muddy.  There are lots of trails left over from the gold
    rush days and the bulk of hikers tend to stick to a few fairly popular
    hiking trails.  Biking on those trails borders on very stupid. 
    However, I would hate to see a total ban on ATBs on trails.
    
    My two cents worth,
    Mark

    I have been a trail overseer for the PATC for many years and know
    what errosion can do and how easyly it starts.  I am also a member
    of the Sierra club and ride my Mountain Bike when ever I get a chance.
    I would love to ride on hiking trails but will not.  Hiking trails
    are for hiking.  There are enough places to ride mountain bikes
    without subjecting both the trail and the users to potential damage.

    
    Mud?!? What's that? Never seen it here in LA... :-)
    
    I have to agree, a track down a soft or muddy trail means bad news
    come next rain. However, here in So. Cal., the rain only comes during
    the rainy season. Almost nobody rides then.
    
    The voice behind the ban here is one of safety.
    
    						--- Neal
    

    To clarify one point I made.
    
    I don't mind anyone going on trails built for that purpose.  What
    I object to is going on trails someone else built for a different
    purpose.  The snowmobilers in NE have built many miles of their
    own trail and don't want hikers or x-c skiers on them.  If some
    mountain bikers want to build trail for mountain biking then they
    can do whatever they want on it.
    
    

    re. dirt bikes
    I agree that dirt motorcycle riding is very bad for trails and does
    cause a great deal of damage. I know of one trail heree in colorado
    that was so damaged that the trail had to be closed to *ALL* traffic.
    I'm a former dirt rider(dont now cause I dont have a bike) but did
    my riding on fire trails,sandpits,jeep trails. This is an important
    issue but it dosent relive the ATB rider from ownership of his own
    share of the problem. Education of the masses(via a bike mag?) is
    a great way to start but this wont solve the problem unless we care
    enough to practice what we have learned and avoid riding when
    conditions are bad. Simply steering around a patch of mud or soft
    dirt can make a big diffrence in preventing erosion.
    As a hiker I'm into having a good time when I'm out, I really like
    meeting people along the trail and a biker is fine by me, I try
    to avoid getting upset but being charged by oncoming traffic
     or seeing the place trashed really brings me down.
    Peer pressure does wonders in many cases where that facts dont work.
    
    -j