Conference noted::bicycle

    (May be a dumb question, but a starting point:)
       Mike, have you been 'Fitted' with the Fit Kit.  How do their
    recommendations compare with what you've been working toward/to.
    Any chance that you have not been looking at some rather obscure
    dimension that does effect comfort (like handlebar width, crank
    length, other things we take for granted?).  - Chris

    I am considering replacing my old Fuji this year, if I can find
    the right bike.  I think what I am looking for is imilar to what
    you are looking for, too.  Most of the bike companies seem to be
    making racing bikes, mountain bikes, or occasionally, havy touring
    bikes.  The combination that you (and I) are looking for fits into
    a neglected category.  I have read about one bike that sounds like
    it fits the bill.  The TREK 400T.  Triple crank, very light weight,
    and set up tighter than most touring bikes.  I read that it sells
    for $425-450.  My only problem is finding a TREK dealer nearby.
     I live in Manchester, NH and work in Nashua.  Anybody know where
    to go for TREKs around here?  Anybody know anything else about this
    bike?

>  Anybody know where to go for TREKs around here?

    Happy Day Cycle in Milford at least *used* to carry TREK.  They
    are still listed as a TREK dealer in last year's yellow pages.

    (603) 673-5088

.jim

    
    Back to the original question, your tourer feels like a truck (a
    nice, lightweight truck, but a truck nonetheless) because of it's
    extended wheelbase and slack seat tube angle. This geometry is great
    for long rides with heavy baggage, it makes you feel comfortable
    and in control of all the weight.
    
    Since you seem to ride a lot, you're probably getting faster
    (hopefully) and thus you are demanding more out of your bike in
    terms of handling. There's not too many touring bikes which could
    be called "responsive" when ridden unladen. No matter how you fit
    the bike, it won't be as quick as something a little more upright.
    The steeper angles balance your weight over the bike in a more even
    fashion, giving better control; the steeper seat ube makes high
    rpm spinning easier and more comfortable.
    
    Sounds like you're looking for a better sport bike, of which there
    is a whole market segment dedicated to you. An entry level club
    racer would be a good choice as it would give you the most speed/$
    versus a triathalon bike which is more of a compromise.
    
    When my old roommate was shopping for just the same style of bike,
    I recommended the Nashbar Sport Ex because it had the best value,
    and fitting and service I took care of. If you don't feel comfortable
    doing this yourself then it might be better to go to a shop.
    
    Best of luck,
    Chris
    

    re: .4
    You say that an entry level club racer would be a better value in
    this case than a triathalon bike.
    
    What is the difference?  I assumed a triathalon bike was a sort
    of racing bike.  Mhat makes a triathalon bike different (other than
    the right endorsement)?
    

    
    To joe average bike rider, there's not a heck of a lot of difference.
    We're talking nitty gritty here. But an experienced rider can tell
    the difference pretty quickly.
    
    An entry level racer will be steep in geometry, short in length,
    and generally as light as possible within the budget constraints
    of the manufacturer. It will do it's best to be as responsive as
    a top level racer. It makes compromises in comfort for raw handling
    prowess.
    
    A triathalon bike was designed for Ironman type events, which are
    basically long time trials over less than ideal terrain. A bike
    built for this type of event is a bit longer and maybe shallower
    in design, to give that extra edge in comfort for the rider who
    must be in the saddle for 5 straight hours. European stage racing
    bikes are also built this way, in contrast to a criterium style
    bike that's built solely for speed and handling.
    
    Head tube angle, seat tube angle, chainstay length, bottom bracket
    height, fork trail, wheelbase.......all these factors effect how
    a bike handles and rides. The particular combination the builder
    chooses also contributes to the overall recipe...which is why it's
    *impossible* to judge a bike based on statistics. You have to put
    it through the paces before it can be judged fairly.
    
    And that's my opinion for the day...
    
    CdH
    

Chris P (.1):

Yes, I was fit kitted on the nuovo sport and it was satisfactory,
corresponding adjustments were made to the speciallisima.  In truth
there is not a lot of difference between the measurements of the two
bikes, but the speciallisima just feels like a truck, even with no
gear.  In fact, I can hardly feel the difference between the bike
loaded and not loaded.  Yes, some obscure dimension may be a problem
but I dont know what it may be or, at this point where to start. 
Have considered about everything in the last 3 years.  ?? 
Frame allignment was even checked.  But if anyone would like to see 
the two bikes, I'd sure welcome it.


x Wiegler (.2):

Looked up specs last nite on trek 400t, sounds like it may be a
worthwhile possibility.  The next model up looked like it had better
components, but not the geometry.  Am I right that 400t components
are a bit mediocre?  Do you know anyone who has one?  

(John Allis recommended a specialized, but alas they are no more, 
anyone know of any?)


Chris D (.4)

Would an "entry level club racer" be of good quality?  Would it be 
satisfactory with loaded rear panniers, with a triple?


Appreciate all the help...	~Mike

    
        In regards to the train of thought that what may be needed is
    a touring bike with a little faster geometry, in other words a
    sort of compromise between the two, do they still make the Fuji
    S-12S?  I wanted that compromise - stability, yet speed, and found
    this bike (18 gears) to be the perfect solution. 
    
        I toured from Boston to L.A. with one, and was a lot happier with it
    than my two friends who equipped themselves with "touring" bikes (Univega,
    I forgot which model was the heavy touring one, but they had them).
    The shorter wheelbase, thinner tires, etc. all gave me more speed,
    but it wasn't so all-out "racer" that it was clumsy with the gear
    (enough for an 8 week trip, tent, sleeping bag).
    
        Yes, this IS a neglected area for bike manufacturers.  Seems
    you gotta be Joe Specialist nowadays, one bike for each thing you
    want to do with it.  
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    Specialized used to make a bike (last year) called the Sequoia.
    It had 18 speeds but, if I remember correctly, was not really designed
    as a heavy touring bike.  It looked more like a racing (or triathalon)
    bike.  I don't know if it had braze ons for racks, or could even
    accomodate them.  Too bad they don't seem to make it anymore.  
    

    re: .7  Perhaps it feels like a truck because it's out of
    alignment.  There are a couple of ways to approximately determine
    whether it's aligned.
    
    Can you ride it no-hands?  If so, it should track well.
    
    If you put a long straight-edge against the rear-wheel rims, does
    it come close to the front rims? both sides?
    
    Bill Farrell's Frame Alignment System has worked wonders for some
    frames. (He also invented the Fit Kit.)  If you want a better opinion,
    Paul Randazzo of Category I has a FAS and can check/fix alignment.
    Fixing it ain't cheap, but it's better than having a bike that ain't
    right.
    
    ed

    
    Mike,
    I must have misunderstood you, I thought you were looking for a
    sportier bike to just go on rides with, in addition to your loaded
    touring bike.
    
    There are sport bikes that double well as touring bikes (short tours),
    the nicest one I rode was the Klein Performance. Believe it or not
    it does ride well with or without the bags.
    
    I think you're looking for a great compromise, and, I'm afraid,
    that you might wind up with a bike that satisfies either need well.
    Think seriously about aquiring a second bike for jamming around
    on, and keep your touring bike for what it was designed for.
    
    My $.02
    
    Chris