Conference noted::bicycle

    
    	re .0	Well, as with all things,.... it depends.  I ride a
    "Mountain Bike" (though it doesn't have REAL KNOBBIE TYRES)
    occasionally, and I like it.  I doubt that I could endure a single
    position for much time though; the most I've ever done was about
    3 1/2 hours.  There are other notes somewhere about neck, shoulder,
    hand and back pains, I agree with the comment that drop (Maes bend ?)
    bars enable one to move around, which can help.  For "long distance"
    (whatever that is for you) I suspect that a single position bike
    needs to be an even better fit than a conventional one, make sure
    that it can be riden with the elbows bent without getting too far
    forward for comfort.
    
    	Reg
    

    
    If it's just for her, then if she's more comfortable with the ATB
    then by all means have her go for it. The problem comes when the
    two of you want to ride together. She's going to have to put in
    more effort to ride at racing bike speeds. Anything over 10 mph
    or so is going to be a handicap for her. If you're willing to ride
    at a speed that's comfortable for her, then there's no problem.
 
    CdH
    

    I should have mentioned in .0 that my wife and I have been looking
    for a couple of good loaded touring bikes for quite some time now.
    I ended up buying the Shogun, and am very pleased with it.  She
    is still looking around and is having trouble deciding what to get.
    
    We will be riding together on one day or two day weekend trips.  If
    she gets a mountain bike, then I'll look around for a good deal
    on a used one for myself.  This way, we can do some off road riding.
    However, most of the riding will be road touring.
    
    The latest issue of Bicycling mentions that mountain bikes are getting
    more popular for road touring.  By the way, anyone interested in
    touring should get that issue.  It is loaded with information on
    bikes, clothes, training, etc.
    
    We won't be doing any real endurance stuff; just an average of 50
    miles per day, with an occasional century.
    
    Regards,
    Denis
     
    

    If you go the mountain bike route, by all means get slicks or
    Specialized Nimbus tires.  I have a pair of of Avocet City Slicks
    for my mountain bike and it makes the bike a whole lot easier to
    pedal.  The drawback is that they look like big old-fashioned
    white-wall ballon tires I had on my first bike.  Howver, I hear
    that Specialized is making a slick that is fairly narrow so that
    might be a good choice.  
    
                                        Just my $0.02
    					Joe

    Thanks for the replies!
    
    It looks like a mountain bike with street tires may be the way she
    wants to go.  Hope it works out.
    
    Regards,
    Denis

    Finally!  The wife bought a bicycle.  She got the Mongoose Hill
    Hopper.  This is a mountain bike, but has many features to make
    it comfortable for touring.  The tires are knobby with a strip of
    rubber running down the middle to make it more usefull for the road.
    She really likes it.  Thanks for the help! 
     
    Regards,
    Denis
    

    Correction on that last reply.  That was a Mongoose Hill TOPPER,
    not hill hopper.  Although, that's not a bad name either. :^)
    
    Thanks,
    Denis

    It's been over a year since this note has had a reply, so - I recently
    met an avid biker that completed an organized century on his ATB.
    Are ATBs gaining popularity as touring machines?

    If ATBs are gaining popularity as touring machines, I think it's only
    because there are more of them around. People who come into cycling by
    buying an ATB will look for things to do with them, and touring is one
    of those things.
    
    ATBs have been tremendously hyped in the past couple of years. It's
    been good for the industry to have a whole new class of expensive
    bikes to sell, and I'm sure it's brought a lot of people to cycling
    who wouldn't have taken it up otherwise.
    
    However, I think the truth is that on the road, ATBs just aren't as
    good as conventional bikes. They've got more rolling resistance,
    offer just one cycling position, and offer a lot more wind resistance.
    I too have seen people using ATBs on an organized 100m ride, and
    they were struggling.
    
    Rod

< Note 252.9 by RDGENG::MACFADYEN "Roderick MacFadyen" >
                 -< Mountain bikes should stick to mountains >-

I too have seen people struggling on long rides riding ATB's.  But the bikes 
were set up for dirt, not the roads.  You can set them up so that they make 
decent touring bikes, I think.  Put on narrow tires, like Specialized 
Crossroads with a center ridge, or fat slicks if you don't want to go off road 
at all.  That would help enormously.  Put on a different freewheel...ATB's 
usually come with 3-tooth jumps on the freewheel...I'd prefer 2.  With the 
triple crankset I don't think you'd need the super wide-range freewheel.  REI 
markets a neat drop handlebar with indexed barend shifters (Shimano).  This 
gives the usual variety of positions.  Or clamp on a Scott Mountain bar, which
is a u-shaped bar clamped to the regular handlebars.  These allow you to get
down in a very aerodynamic position to cheat headwinds or just rest. 

Granted, you will have spent some extra money, but you now have a very 
versatile bike.  I've done some of this and want to do the rest, so that I 
have a comfortable bike to train on in sloppy conditions.  Save my road bike.

I also ride this bike sometimes when I ride with my girlfriend.  It slows me 
down enough so that we can ride together and she doesn't get burned out and I 
still get a decent workout.

Kevin

.10>                                           Put on narrow tires, like
.10> Specialized Crossroads with a center ridge, or fat slicks if you don't want
.10> to go off road at all.                              

.10> Put on a different freewheel...     

.10> REI markets a neat drop handlebar with indexed barend shifters (Shimano).

.10> Or clamp on a Scott Mountain bar

    Look at the lengths you're going to, to produce a bike that still
    won't perform as well on the road as a touring bike, and that is
    now considerably worse off-road (the very place it was designed
    for). You're talking about spending considerable time and money.
    Besides, you said yourself that you ride your ATB on-road to slow
    yourself down when you're cycling with your girlfriend. 
    
    And who has got the knowledge and expertise to buy and fit all these
    parts? I'm pretty sure that most cyclists, even those with expensive
    bikes, aren't too hot when it comes to mechanics. And certainly not the
    people who buy an upmarket ATB because the Sunday magazines told them
    it was hip to own one, and who maybe won't be too pleased to learn
    that their glossy machine isn't the be-all and end-all of cycling.
    
    Maybe a touring bike isn't as glamorous as an ATB, but it's a hell
    of a lot more sensible for long-distance road cycling.


    Rod

< Note 252.11 by 43406::MACFADYEN "Roderick MacFadyen" >
                          -< You only prove my point >-

It takes only minimal mechanical ability to make these changes.  I don't do my 
own maintenance so I'm not a hot bike mechanic, but I can change tires and 
freewheels and clamp on a handlebar.

For a little over $100 more than the cost of the ATB, and about 1/2 hour of 
work to do a changeover, I've got a full-fledged ATB, and a virtually 
indestructable touring bike.  A much cheaper alternative to buying different 
bikes for each purpose.  I was merely trying to illustrate how one could 
approach the problem of not being able to own a stable of bikes (tho I do).  
You'll probably have a primary use for the bike that gets most of your time.  
Why buy a bike for the secondary uses, if you can buy a bike for you primary 
use that can easily and inexpensively be converted occasionally for a 
secondary use?  Get my point?

Kevin

    I get your point, it's a reasonable one. But many people will still shy
    away from getting their hands dirty. 
    
    Owning a stable of bikes is best, as you say. I have a touring bike,
    as you might have guessed, and I recently acquired a Raleigh
    Competition, to have something a bit faster. Now all I need is an
    ATB... I mean, they're not without their uses...
    
    Rod

If you define "touring" as doing the most distance (horizontal and vertical)
in given amount of time ... sure, a lightweight skinny wheeled triumph of 
modern technology and personal economics is what you need. That sounds like 
"racing" though.  "Touring" to me is a bit less confined ... so .... 

Things I like about having a mountain bike...

	I Don't have to worry about sand and gravel on the road.

	Riding in a field after mud season and before the grass
	gets too high.

	No cars or car exhaust stink in the woods.

	I can check out all those dirt roads that I saw when
	out riding on my skinny wheeler and not worry about
	dodging all the rocks and staying on the hard smooth
	part.

	I can check out those trails off the dirt roads that I
	now can see because I'm not concentrating on the 2 feet
	of road just in front of me.

	Going down the steep hill I just climbed.

	When there is lots of car traffic on a road I can ride
	on the shoulder or even the ditch and not worry about getting
	hit by one of those jerkface drivers who seem to like to see 
	how close they can zip past you.

	I can pop a (little) wheelie.

	The strange looks from motorcyclists when they pass you out in 
	the middle of nowhere.

	Going through big puddles and getting muddy.

	The envious looks from the kids in the neigborhood as I whiz
	by on my red Hard-Rock.  When the see the helmet they give me
	the "oh, its an adult" look, but they still see the bike.

	I still can go for a hour's ride, two three hour's ride no matter
	long it takes.  I don't think about the distance. 
		Last year ...	Hey Smith, where'd you go? ... 
				Oh, just down to New York ...
		This year ...	Hey Smith, where'd you go? ... 
				Oh, just around, I was out for 3 hours ...

Things I like about having a touring bike and mountain bike...

	Since I rarely use the touring bike anymore it stays clean.

	When the mountain bike is broken, I can use the touring bike
	while waiting for parts and time to fix it.

    re: 525.11- It is much easier to modify a mountain bike...slicks..drop
    handlebars...freewheel... for the road that it is to modify a road
    bike for the mountain. Most touring bikes would not last one trip
    on a good, technical mountain bike ride. Here in the southern
    Appalachians, we ride on roads that stop 4-wheel drive Jeeps. We
    ride on 45-60 degree inclines in gravel or dirt or mud. We jump
    eight to ten inch logs with ease. If the log is so big that it cant
    be jumped, we stack smaller logs against it and go over the whole
    thing....and I'm a rookie. There are people here that can go over
    a 20 inch log effortlessly. I guess the point is that for $100 you
    can modify a mountain bike and take it on the road. It may take
    more effort...maybe much more effort...to ride a century. But try
    modifying your touring bike to withstand the punishment of off road
    riding (and i dont mean dirt roads), and you'll find that it is
    much more difficult and expensive. 
    
    

    Re .15: I'm sure you're right, that it's much easier to modify an ATB
    for the road than a touring bike for the mountain. But speaking as a
    touring bike owner, I've never wanted to do that. Naturally I'm
    impressed that you can jump an eight to ten inch log with ease, but
    when I'm commuting to work or on a cycling holiday, I'm more interested
    in getting from A to B with the minimum of fuss. I'm thinking of a bike
    more as a functional tool here, and less as a leisure item. 
    
    What is irritating is the attitude I see being promoted that mountain-
    bikes are the answer to every cycling problem. It's as if cycling
    didn't exist before ATBs were invented. While for many mountain-bikers
    that may be true, for me it's not. Different applications require
    different bikes (and not just different mountain-bikes either!). 
    
    Rod

    re: .14 
    
    yeeks!! I'd love to see someone jump over a 20inch log on a mountain
    bike...I dont think I could jump that high without a bike!
    
    Robb

    
    	Well, I had a racing bike and a touring bike, as well as
    a light weight 5 speed commuting bike, when I bought my mountain
    bike 4 years ago.      
    
    	After the first year, I realized I would never tour on
    the touring bike, since the mountain bike seemed better for that.
    So I sold the touring bike.     This year I sold my all 'Campy' 
    Mondia racing bike, since I had only used it for two century
    rides in the past two years.   Oh, it's an incredibly nice and
    fast bike, but I just have not been using it.    All I ride
    now is the mountain bike.
    
    	The mountain bike seems preferable for commuting now, since
    it goes off road, thus allowing me to avoid much traffic on the
    way to work.    As a touring bike the mountain bike is better for 
    the same reason, since even when carrying panniers it's nice to 
    be able to go off the road hunting for the great camping spot.

	I know I can't possibly ride the mountain bike as fast as
    that Mondia would go, but I guess I'm just not so much in a
    hurry any more.    I like the reliability and ruggedness of
    it.   I like being entirely out of the traffic.

    	Alan.