Conference noted::bicycle

Well, I had a couple of Mirrycle's. One each on my 2 touring bikes and
one on my daughter's bike.  The danged thing never stayed tight.  The mirror
always flopped down so that I had to move it by hand until I ran out of
patience and got the allen wrench out and tightened it.  Then I glued
the sucker.  It stayed right for a long time.  Then someone told me
that when I laid my bike down on the grass that I should not lay it down
on the freewheel side because I'd muck up the derailleurs or chain so
I laid it down on the mirror side.  So much for the glue, it didn't hold
any more.  (I know, the British would have the mirror and derailleurs
on the same side.)  My daughter's has never been tight and she's happy
with it.  Instead of glue you could use one of those washers that has
points on it -- I heard someone call it a star washer -- it sticks into
the plastic just enough to provide extra friction.

I would also nix the Rhode Gear model.

So, what do I use?  A helmet mounted third eye.  The stems break but
I believe in them so much that I have a half dozen or so.  I keep one
in each vehicle that I drive in case when I throw my stuff in the car
there's no mirror on the helmet.  That way I still have one.  You
can order replacement parts for $3.  I even lend them to my riding
partners if they show up short.  The latest 3rd eye's have reinforced
stems.  This mirror is MUCH better than any other helmet or eyeglass
mounted mirror, being bigger and closer the field of view is exceptional.

    EVERY BIKE I'VE OWNED HAS HAD A MIRRYCYCLE ON IT.  I'VE NEVER HAD
    A PROBLEM WITH IT STAYING TIGHT.  IN FACT THE NEWER ONES HAVE A
    SELF LOCKING NUT THAT WON'T LOOSEN UP.  FREE MOTION CYCLERY IN GRAFTON,
    MA. WILL INSTALL ONE FOR $6.00.

    
    	Well, the old humbug is back from 3 weeks in Vermont and I think
    you're crazy to depend on velcro'd thingies on your brake hoods
    and dental mirrors on your helmets (which I think cause most of
    the impairment to rearward hearing and peripheral vision anyway).

    I rely on keeping a straight line close to the curb and an attentive
    ear to the rear, just turn the head so that the traffic side ear
    is out of the airstream and you can hear rearward traffic quite well,
    you don't have to ride with your head on sideways.  I judge whats going
    on by road roar (tire noise) and changes in engine sound as vehicles
    get close to me.  Its easy to tell when there is someone coming up on
    you that doesn't know what to do next, you can hear the hesitation
    as they slow down and have a self to self discussion on whether it is
    safe to pass.  There seem to be only two kinds of vehicles that come
    from the rear anyway, those that you don't need to do anything about
    because they give you a lot more clearance than you need, and
    those you can't do anything about because by the time you realize
    they're too close they're alongside, you can't see that coming in a
    mirror at closing speeds of ~20 MPH. 

    	Reg
    

    
    	I agree with .3 in that hearing what's comming is easy to learn
    and more convienient too. (I've never forgotten to take my ears
    along. 8^) ) Also, helmets are a pain. I don't believe they will
    protect me if anything 'serious' happens, and if it's not that serious
    I can take a bump on the head. Even motorcycle helmets.............
    Well, that's another discussion for another file.

    	I rode from Phoenix, Az. to Winchendon, Ma. (about 2,800) without
    either a helmet or a rear-view mirror. And never had any problems
    with knowing what was going on behind me, or feeling unprotected.
    Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but when I was a kid, (I'm 35) you would have 
    been laughed out of town for wearing a helmet. Maybe times have
    changed that. I don't want to change the subject of this note, but
    what does everyone else think about helmets. Maybe I should start
    another note?
    
    /Pete

    re .4	We've been there (helmets, that is).  Some of the early
    notes kicked it around, I think we agreed to disagree.  Its a personal
    choice thing, except for licenced racers, but I understand that
    they get some kind of dispensation so they don't get laughed off
    the european pro circuit.  I would like it to remain a personal
    choice thing and resent peer pressure to take appropriate (for them)
    care of myself.  I really fear it going the way of motorcycle helmets
    and seatbelts.
    
    	I can, and do, argue it either way - often both ways.  I want
    a helmet on if/when I go down hard and land on my head but I don't want
    my hearing and vision impaired to the point of causing the accident
    that the helmet could save me from.  I think we're victims of the Bell
    company (and other's) ad campaigns, but most of my prejudice against
    them stems from the fact that helmets became compulsory on the Pan Mass
    ride the year that Bell became a sponsor. 

    	Oh well, work break coming up, gotta contribute...
    
    	Reg
    

    I do not think that merely listening for cars is sufficient.   I
    have been in a number of situations where I have been surprised
    to find a car right behind me.  Usually, this happens on a fast
    downhill, where the wind whipping by me makes enough noise to drown
    out the car.  Occasionally, however, it has happened when I'm not
    going very fast, but have been daydreaming.  You are taking a big
    risk if you move out into the lane without a visual check behind
    you.
    
    My vote goes for the Third Eye mirror.  I have ridden bikes with
    Mirrycles, and I prefer the Third Eye.  One advantage not previously
    mentioned is that you can see anywhere behind you by turning your
    head, whereas with the bike-mounted mirror, you can only see directly
    behind, and somewhat to the left (if left-mounted mirror); you cannot,
    for example, see behind you to the right.  I have seen some bikes
    with two Mirrycles, motorcycle style - one on each side.  This is
    probably a nice combination, but it is heavier and has more wind
    resistance than a Third Eye.
    
    I agree with the "individual choice" crowd concerning helmet wearing.
    Personally, however, I would not ride without one.  I was involved in
    what could have been a serious accident, and ever since then, I have
    always worn a helmet.   I was riding with a friend, and both of our
    bikes were laden with camping gear.  I bumped into her bike, and the
    gear on my bike caught the gear on her bike, dumping her sideways to
    the pavement, where she hit her (unhelmeted) head. Fortunately, she was
    not injured, but she was lucky.   I have talked to a lot of people with
    similar stories, and they have just reinforced my decision to always
    wear a helmet.
    
    
    				Jon

    I'd have to agree with Reg's comments in .3 about mirrors,
    almost against my will.  I tend to be a supporter of safety
    equipment, and find that people who argue against it are
    usually rationalizing ways to get around it for the sake of
    "freedom," "fun," or whatever.  This is especially true of
    seatbelts and helmets -- after getting used to wearing them,
    I really can't comprehend why people resist so vehemently.
    The cold, hard facts in both cases are clear; the
    inconvenience of facing up to them is minimal. 
    
    However, in the case of bicycle mirrors, I'd have to draw the
    line.  They seem more like "paranoia pacifiers" than safety
    devices.  I've never seen anybody run over from behind while
    simply riding along the side of the road. 
    
    I could be wrong, but I assume this is a very rare case, and
    one that a mirror could hardly help.  Are there any stats on
    what situations commonly lead to serious bike-car accidents?
    I'd imagine that cases in which cars hit bikes broadside at
    an intersection are pretty common, as well as those famous
    "tire into driver-side door" collisions.  To those we could
    add cases in which cars suddenly pull halfway out into the
    road in preparation for a turn without looking, forcing the
    bike to ram into its side. Anybody out there have the facts? 
    
    MATT

I have a Rhode Gear mirror on my brake hood and it works very well.  I can 
see not only overtaking cars, but also fellow riders who may be right behind 
me or have slipped back.  If I am overtaking someone, I don't want to look 
behind me or listen for cars, I just want to look for traffic behind then 
floor it.

The Rhode Gear mirror doesn't wobble, and is very tough.  Last night I fell 
over in a parking lot and didn't even scrape the plastic.

Mirrors are not worth a flame, though that never seemed to stop any noters :-)
Either you use them or you don't.  I like the peace of mind they give me.

cbs

    re .7
    
    I didn't think much of bicycle mirrors either until I tried one.

	I like to know when a car is coming up behind me when I am going
	to turn left at an intersection... the mirror is a bit easier
	than turning my head.

	It is also handy when riding in a group to keep track of the
	riders behind me.  I recommend having a mirror but it's up to
	the individual.

				-John A. Wasser

re: -1
  >   -< There IS no one behind you John... >-

Very cute and clever statement !!!  I just hope John doesn't put
a mirror on his bike and see me back there.
    

As far as mirrors go, I've tried the mirrycle, the type that attach to your
helmet and the type that attach to your eyeglasses. By far, I've had the
best luck with the kind that attaches to your eyeglasses.

                                     Keith

There's yet another mirror around - this one fits into the end of the handlebar
where the plug would go normally. Don't know what it's called; a friend had
or has one, and seems to like it a lot. I'm a "brain-bucket" mirror man
myself. Always wear helmet ===> always have mirror.

Idea of "always wearing helmet" derives from personal experience as to
how a fairly gentle, but well-placed tap on the head can very nearly
end your life; and certainly make it miserable for a couple years.

                                   ride safe,
                                   ken

I like the mirror so that I can tell where my riding companions are without
changing my concentration enough to look for them -- well, that is, the
ones who are (one who is?) behind me.  If there's a bicyclist behind me 
that I can hear, I don't want to ride with him.

I actually saw something different in it the other day.  First, there was
this <expletive deleted> car that passed me and pulled into the breakdown
lane. Traffic was heavy enough that I hadn't noticed him before he passed
me. I looked into the mirror and saw the Smokey coming up from behind. 
(That Smokey got wrote 4 tickets in the 30 minutes that I rode from
Merrimack to Milford.)  It's funny how all of the traffic slows down
whenever they see a cop, no matter how much they were within the limit -- I
better watch out before I get told to go to the "auto" notes file. 

    
    The end-of-the-bar mirrors are almost useless, they're too far back
    to use safely. You might as well turn your head around.
    
    My feelings on brake hood mirrors are this...if it makes you feel
    more comfortable then by all means use it. To me it's just an
    unnecessary appendage to break off the bike, which is why I don't
    use them, computers, horns etc.
    
    As for the helmet mirrors, I've tried them with little success.
    I can never get the %^&*^&*( thing adjusted right, so I wind up
    contorting my neck to get a good look and then I might as well have
    turned my head . 
    
    However, a lot of racers swear by them now. Paul Curley, an
    international amateur racer and ex-teammate, started wearing one
    about 4 years ago. It seems he started a trend as there seems to
    be many more out there now. His rationale was it helped him see
    who was on his flank so he'd know what move to make.
    
    CdH
    

I've been using the Myrracle (is THAT spelling right?) for the past 3 years.
I tried the kind attached to my eyeglasses, and the kind attached to my
helmet, but I kept getting headaches from trying to squirm my eyeball around
to see into/thru the darn things. Moreover, after I did get a glimpse of
something in the mirror, it invariably was a great big eyeball staring back
at me.
I suscribe to Reg's school of "Listen to the Traffic trying to get you",
and use the Mirracle (there's the right spelling, I think) to keep track
of those silent ninnies who cruise up behind you on their Eddie Mercxx's,
draft for a few seconds, and then scare the chaimois off you by announcing
their intention to pass just as you get into a nice cruising seance, thinking
about that nice hot shower coming up, or that beautiful ripe banana in the
pack, or how crystal clear that lake looks.
I have had some trouble keeping them tight, but carry the (provided) allen
wrench in the pack , next to the banana, to do quick fixes.

    
    RE: .16
    
    This guy (gal?) is very funny.  You should write more notes.
    
    Chuck
    

    re .10:	John,	If you're going to be turning left at an
    			intersection, you ought to be on the yellow
    line 50 yards before the turn.  Of course, you need to know who's
    behind you when you make the initial lane change...
    
    I have tried the 3/4" square eyeglass mounted mirrors, and couldn't
    make them work, have always relied on hearing and looking back,
    actually down under my arm.  
    
    Re other comments in this note:	On the daydreamers, if you have
    					gotten to that point, it's not 
    clear that a mirror would be too helpful... 
    
    I think that if I tried a mirror that worked, I'd be using it. 
    You need all the info you can get.
    					John

> If you're going to be turning left at an intersection, you ought to be on 
> the yellow line 50 yards before the turn.  Of course, you need to know who's
> behind you when you make the initial lane change...
    
	My feelings exactly...  One of the reasons I have a mirror.

			-John A. Wasser