Conference terri::cars_uk

Tell her to keep looking for another polo.  Far better bet, IMO.

    
    Jap stuff pi**ed on everything on the Top Gear Top 100. Whilst the
    Nissan Micra wasn't mentioned (?) I'd go for Jap reliability over the
    Pug plastic anyday.
    
    

    Re .2
    
    Obviously never seen one, either, if you call a 205 plastic! :^)
    
    BTW, this Top Gear top 100 worries me. Everything near the top is the
    kind of car Mr Trilby or the Vicar's wife drives. Methinks people who
    buy such 'cars' have a lower expectation of their vehicles and
    therefore are happier with them than people who buy more 'interesting'
    vehicles.
    
    Mark

    
    They tried to get around the lower expectations issue by introducing Mr
    Merc ex-dealer who was well chuffed with his Lada Samara (was it?). 
    Didn't really wash though...
    
    C.

    ...Perhaps they have lower expectations of the cars in a performance
    sense but I would bet that reliability is #1 on their lists.
    
    Just my $.02 worth (CDN)
    
    Brian Pituley
    

That top 100 thing is a joke.  It looks extremely suspicious.  I agree with 
Mark (I think it was, anyway), when he mentioned the expectations of the 
owners.  I also think it depends on the enthusiasm of the owners, when it comes 
to replying.  Certainly, their expectations of the car may be low, so they're 
so chuffed when it doesn't fall apart after a week, they tell top gear about 
it.  Your average BMW/VW/whatever driver expects such reliability, so doesn't 
bother shouting from the rooftops when he/she gets it.

Also, I'd wager that some people respond just to try and give their cars a bit 
of credibility.  I can see it now....the AGM of the Skoda owners club;

"Right, people.  In order to give our cars a better image, everyone write to 
Top   Gear, and say how brilliant your car is."


re Micra
Everyone I know who's got a Micra (I know 4 ashamed Micra "drivers") hates it.  
They've all had problems around the 50/60k mile mark, as things start falling 
off.  Even though it's under warranty, I bet it isn't exactly comprehensive.  
Also, they're the most appalling drab cars to drive (I'm not sure whether 
that's your mother's main priority tho')

    
    Re.5
    
    But to what degree?
    
    40 miles to work and back each day and touring long distances at
    weekends or 2 miles to school with the kids and to the supermarket on
    Friday afternoon?
    
    My feeling is that such people will accept small faults with their cars
    that people with a keener interest don't. Certainly outright, breakdown,
    failures won't be accepted, but things that they can cope with not
    working or barely notice will be ignored (like brakes, indicators, etc
    :^)).
    
    I've no evidence for this, but even looking within manufacturers, it's
    always the 'granny' models which are 'most reliable'. To me, it all
    looks a bit dubious. Added to which it comes from the US - something
    I'm always doubtful about. :^)
    
    Mark
                                   <

    re.6 Matt,
    
    Yup. On the old-style Micra score, I know of two peeps (and your
    housemate) who've had nothing but trouble. They're horrible cars, I
    only hope the new ones are as much an improvement as this Top Gear 100,
    which I don't hold much belief in, says they are.
    
    Cheers,
    Dan (good job GTM didn't appear in the list) ;-l

I think they'd have trouble getting enough owners to sample, Dan...

    Indeed. :-]

I know that the old Micras were absolutley dreadful cars in every
respect.  From what I understand, though, the new one's a totally
different car, although not one I've had any experience with.  Does
it share *any* parts with its predecessor?  (If it does, I, for one,
would stay well clear!)

Chris.

    re.11
    
    I seriously doubt it.
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    Looks like I started some... "interesting" debate here.
    
    Despite the fact that I probably wouldn't want to own either,
    personally, it seems - if I understand the impressions correctly - that
    the "older" Micras are a bit of a bummer and therefore steer clear
    (since no-one has adequately explained what "old" means in this context
    I'm taking this to include the F-reg in question).
    
    It also looks like the extra 10,000 miles still makes the Peugeot top
    choice?? Right?
    
    David

    
    Depends which model, but the Peugot 205 is still a great car in most
    senses.
    
    re:.9
    
    You mean sample as in taking the piss?
    
    C.

    
    Oh well there is always one :-)
    
    Nissan Micra D reg that me partner drives, had it since new, 40,000+mls
     on clock - only changed the tyres, battery, one clutch, distributer
    cap, and that's it. Oops - wiper blades as well.
    Gets lots of heavy town driving.
    
    Partner loves it, starts ok runs ok, no problems and she can stuff lots
    of junk in to it.
    
    Only problem is the paint - looks (is) faded on top.
    
    I have also had a 205 - diesel, great car.
    
    My pick ? the 205 though steering could be heavy, Micra is very light

    I dont know about the Micra. People who buy brand new have a lot of
    Japanese loyalty. I doubt if this extends to the second hand arena
    though.
    I own a 205, yes its plasticky & the plastic rattles a bit. I've had
    new shockers, wheel bearings, thermostat & um err...wing mirrors. 
    The bodywork has lasted well (lift up the rear seats & look for rust) 
    & all the major units are original. I get through a lot
    of clutch cables (1 every 40,000). Currently, its done 130,000 miles
    (D) reg. Its great fun to drive, though the steerings a bit heavy.
    Its never broken down.
    
    There you are, 4WiW.
    
    Tony.
         

    Gotta agree with .1, tell her to find another Polo.
    
    The mileage looks kinda high on the Pug.

    I'd go for the Pug too, I wouldn't give a Japanese car garage space. As
    for the TG Top 100, well, my K-plate Pug 405 came way down the list,
    yet I've only ever heard owners praise them; I've yet to hear a serious
    complaint. I'm with previous noters, the vast majority of happy owners,
    like me, can't be bothered to reply to the CFV. Likewise the Escort,
    I've had a D-plated one from new, done more than 100K on the original
    clutch, and only, aside from tyres and other consumables, replaced the
    shocks. I honestly can't remember when I either serviced it, or changed
    (or checked actually) the oil.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    Old Micra = squary boxey tin-type affair = loadacrud
    
    I'd personally for the 205.

    I have a 205 Diesel D reg 112,000 miles on the clock and I've also had
    a Datsun Sunny in the past. The Datsun was reliable, quiet, 
    reasonably economical and never let me down, however it was very
    plasticly, rolled in corners and boring to drive. On the other hand the
    205 is also very reliable, very economical and is fun to drive, it is
    however heavy on the steering which maybe a problem parking etc.
    
    Overall if there is probably not much to choose between the 2 cars.
    
    Regarding the Top Gear 100 list perhaps they ought to compile a list,
    of cars, covering the usual driver requirements. ie:-
    
    1) Shopping & going to church etc usual mileage <5000
    2) Family car (wife(partner) + 2 kids) usual mileage 10,000 - 15,000
    3) Boy racer 2+2 etc usual mileage - unknown 
    4) Company car + private use usual mileage 15,000 - 25,000 
    5) Executive usual mileage unknown
    6) Limo types usual mileage unknown 
    
    Regards,
    
    	Norm

    I learnt to drive in and passed my test in one of the old style Micra's.
    It seemed okay but my driving instructor told me to never buy one.
    He said they were great little cars for learning to drive in but not
    for extended use. And then he didn't elaborate further! As I didn't even
    like the look of the Micra I didn't buy one. As for the new style, they
    *look* even worse and when I had one as a hire car for a day, to do a
    200-mile round trip on motorways, I realised I was right in my decision 
    not to have a Micra. I've driven lots of different cars and even though
    I'm quite small, I found it one of the most uncomfortable cars to ever
    drive and it had almost no power whatsoever. I felt very vulnerable in
    such a small car on a motorway.

    Maybe Micra's are fine for around-town trips, school runs, etc but 
    that's probably about it. There are probably much better cars out
    there.

    Jane.

    
    As a totally off the wall and radical idea...
    
    What about a Skoda? For a small amount of money she could have a
    pretty recent (certainly post VW ownership) Skoda Favorit and, if she
    can ignore the smug grins of Micra owners, she'll probably end up with
    a pretty decent car (added to which she can point out how well Skodas
    did in the TG 100! :^)).
    
    Just a thought, but one that may appeal to someone fond of VWs, but
    without the wherewithal to obtain one.
    
    Mark
        

    OR a Daewoo? 3 years free servicing can't be sniffed at

    But you're missing the simple point that they're Deawoo's and
    Skoda's.... ;-l

    Mark,
    
    Re: -.1
    
    I know their bad rep is getting better, but even so - a Skoda!!
    
    David

>Deawoo's and Skoda's.... ;-l
       ^           ^
oh dear.

Chris.

    ArfArf!

    Oopski.
    
    :-]

    
    Sure, why not?
    
    Street credibility isn't high on this person's agenda and nor is
    performance. Post VW buyout Skodas are a TOTALLY different proposition
    to the old ones and their combination of price, quality (yep) and
    practicality would make one an excellent choice for someone on a budget
    looking to replace a Polo.
    
    Mark

    i loved my 205 till it got nicked
    
    which 205 model is it?
    
    ric

    I'd have to ask what model the 205 is too. the humbler models (1.1 1.3)
    used to have the old PSA engine and this was prone to drive train idler
    gear problems. They later fitted the TU engine (alo in AX) at some
    stage, but I'm not sure when.
    
    If she see's the engine's leaning very far backwards (about 70degree I
    seem to remember) then NO. If it's a chunky engine sitting upright
    (large oblong top fills a fair proportion of the "hole") then it's the
    later engine. 
    
    Richard

    Just in case you were wondering, my mother finally made her choice.
    
    In fact, in the end, she did go for a Micra, but another one with even
    fewer miles. She's thrilled with it and I suppose it does look better
    than her old Polo, so that's something!
    
    Now, wasn't that worth waiting for? Folks?? Hello????
    
    David.