Conference terri::cars_uk

re.0:

Are you sure she's at Winnersh? Sounds like the lady that takes racing lines
around the roundabout at Dec Park!

Dave.

    Did you get the reg? If so should be able to trace her if she works for
    DEC

    RE-Baser.
    I think you are being sexist and upsetting yourself over nothing.
    
    GB

    Anyone spot that the driver of the taxi in the new Levi jeans advert is
    a woman in a denim shirt ?
    
    ;-)
    

    I don't know if .3 is being serious but  I don't think .0 was sexist
    as I would think the feelings would be the same regardless of the driver's 
    sex.
    
    However, I have been cut up by so many drivers on roundabouts etc that
    its just not worth getting worked up about. 
    
    People like the one .0 refers to are all part of the centre lane owners
    club / rear fog light on when its not foggy / I own the road and don't
    care at all about other road users / brigade.
    
    Royston

    Roy $massive_generalisation$ Shelley
    
    ;^)

    All i'm trying to say is that there are two schools of driving
    in my books - considerate drivers and those that don't give a toss
    about anyone else on the road.
    
    The latter type tend to have no interest in cars or motoring. They are
    too busy thinking about getting from A to B and what they are going to
    do when they get there.
    
    Still, there I go generalising again !
    
    Royston

RE: .0

Why didn't you wait until the dual carriageway before ovetaking?

Whilst not condoning the lady's driving, it shows a lack of 
anticipation on your part. 

Huw. 

    
    Re  .0  and your previous 2018 note,
    
    Rumor has it that the Mini driver used to drive a SAAB. Maybe you should
    mellow out a bit.
    
    Ian.

Re .2 No I'm not sexist, I would have complained if it were a man. 
Note too I also was at pains to point out that her driving was 
otherwise fine.

Re .8 I *WAS* on the dual carriageway. Maybe you should have stated, 
"why didn't you wait till she was driving in a straight line on a 
straight bit of road, in only one lane before overtaking her"!

P.S. She was in one lane, but couldn't make up her mind which!

Richard

    
    Re the incident.
    
    Richard,
    
    I can sympathise with your feelings, but given the number of people I
    see carrying out incredibly bad manouevres, I can't help feeling that
    the suggestion to 'lighten up' is a good one. This woman clearly has no
    idea what constitutes good driving and so all you are doing is winding
    yourself up.
    
    If I gave the crud driving I often see more than a sorry shake of the
    head, I'd have a mental breakdown!
    
    Chill out and be grateful you didn't hit her! :^)
    
    Mark
        

May I add a frequent gripe, here?  No?  tough.

When pulling out of Imperial way (from DECpark), I want to go straight on at 
the roundabout, and down Whitley Wood Lane.  Nearly every time I attempt this, 
idiots coming down the A33 Basingstoke road (from Reading) fail to observe the 
"Give way to the right" rule, assuming that nobody could possibly want to go 
round the roundabout.  It's starting to annoy me now, even though I spend most 
of my time at Winnersh and it's associated be-Gatso'd roundabouts.

    re-1  Yes, I used to have the same problem.  Irritating isn't it?  
    
    I think the fact that .0 had to drive onto the central reservation to
    avoid the other car is reasonable grounds for annoyance... although I
    agree that we all have to chill  out and avoid the idiots to avoid
    burst blood vessels.
    
    Mikef
    

	I know when I'm getting close to needing a holiday when I
	start swearing in the car and getting wound up.  I try to
	keep it down, but even my son's been known to say "you
	could get a bus through there" and he's only 4.

	Dave

The next time you both meet on the road you should smile/laugh in the same
manner as Herbert Lom does in the Pink Panther films....don't forget the nervous
twitch!!!!!!!

That will surely get her(and everyone else) to stay out of your way in the
future....well at least you will make it to work in one piece!

Take it easy, it ain't worth the hassle.
 
John

    You could always fit some of those snazzy rocket launchers that Bond
    had on his Aston, and next time you see her you could blow her to the
    other side of Mars?
    
    Dan$serious_suggestions_only_:-)

    Orrrrrrrrrrrrr
    
    get onto roundabout before her and do same manouvre, see if you get
    same reaction, if you do say, "I rest my case M'lud".
    
    All right for me to do but no one else, RIGHT.
    
    colin

In the case that you had to go on to the central reservation to avoid an
accident, you should report her to the police.  If you go and talk to them, in
my experience, they will take the details and then go and have a word with her. 
You should understand that they're not going to take legal proceedings, but just
enjoy thinking of her reaction when the Police call on her and "discuss" her
inability to drive ...

As I understand it, if you go and make a complaint at the Police Station, they
are obliged to "follow it up".  I guess it wouldn't work if you go too often,
but this one has obviously got you really mad, so go for it!

T

P.S.  I do talk from experience:  I reported a car salesman from Martins near
Basingstoke once, for speeding down my road making me go on the curb as he
overtook me - the Police told me afterwards that they had "had a word with him".
I also reported a lorry for overtaking on the three lane stretch of the A339
going towards Kingsclere, where the third lane is for south-bound traffic only -
that time I was only told that they would talk to the driver.

    
    
    I'll be able to tell you if the police do follow up on reportings
    as i have been told i will be reported for wreckless driving.
    All i did was overtake a car in a safe place not exceding the speed
    limit ,and the car i was overtaking moved towards me slightly
    and sounded the horn, me and my passenger both responded with the 
    middle finger.and then i relised he was right up my arse on the phone
    {to the police} 
    I tried to lose him but my escort 1.4 was no match for his rover 800
    so pulled over where he got out and informed me that he had reported 
    me to the boys in blue.
    I replyed by saying that i will also make a complaint about his use of 
    a phone while driving .
    It's been four days so far and no sign of the police and i'll keep you 
    informed if anything happens.
    
    matt.....
    

>PEKING::REDDYM "I'M A NUTTER"

It's not that I doubt your innocence but...

    It's not that I doubt your innocence but....
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Note 793.376                   New Rover 200 & 400                  
    376 of 376
    PEKING::REDDYM "I'M A NUTTER"                        11 lines 
    28-MAR-1995 16:29
                           -< he should'nt have waved at me >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    >> i've personaly out run a BMW 535i from 100-130 mph before his
    >> bottle went.
    
    
    Phil Gill.
    
              

    As much as they might like to, and possibly indeed should, the police do
    not have the resource to investigate *every* complaint/information they
    receive.

    Goldy.

Re .-1:  I understood when last I did it, that so long as you go into the Police
station and make a complaint they are obliged to do "something" about it.  I
don't think they have the option of doing nothing.  Of course, you might not be
happy with what they do, but that's another story.

I guess the absolute minimum is that they have to note the complaint, and if
they get too many complaints about the same driver in a short space of time,
they'll do something more ...

T

from my experience, it also depends on the station you report it in.  If they 
don't have a hell of a lot to do, they'll follow it up.  I remember a friend 
getting visits from policemen, and a written notice, for parking his car 
outside a neighbour's house.  Apparently, the positioning of the car was 
restricting her view as she tried to pull out of her drive.

In many police stations, a case like this would go straight in a file/bin, 
while the rozzers concentrate on apprehending criminals.

I don't think so.  I'm no lawyer, but I shouldn't think there's a law 
determining how far from a sunken curb you're allowed to park.

    If you make a 'formal complaint' to the police and they bin it without
    other action then you should refer it to the Police Complaints
    Authority.
    
    'Formal complaints' have to be actioned and the complainant has to be
    told what action was taken.
    
    So it's necessary to use the key words 'formal complaint' otherwise
    they'll be able to ignore it.

	The Police Complaints Authority is responsible for assessing
	complaints against the Police...not complaints about other
	road users....so you would only get action from the PCA if
	you were incorrectly treated by the police....maybe thats
	what -.1 meant but it read a little ambiguously IMHO *8-)

	The biggest problem that the police will have in following
	up any complaint you make about another road user is a lack
	of independant witnessess. i.e.what makes you (the "biased"
	complainant *8-}) an expert about driving skills ? Were you fully 
	conversant with all of the road conditions at the time ? 
	Did you make a bad judgement which contributed to the situation ?
	Does anybody else coroborate your evidence ?

	The police need evidence of an offence...not an opinion
	and if they start to "accuse" motorists of driving in
	a dangerous fashion on the unsubstantiated evidence of
	any irate motorist they'll be knocking on 100 doors a day !

	They _can_ visit if they feel it's justified and they
	_can_ prosecute on your evidence alone....but if they do
	it for every report your taxes will rise dramatically to
	cover the legal costs of a lot of lost cases.

	Kevin.

    .29
    
    You're right, the PCA can take action over a complaint about the
    police, not another road user.
    
    So, to clarify, if you lodge a formal complaint and the police bin it,
    then you're complaint to the PCA is about the police's response to your
    complaint, not about the other driver.

    Reference the car swerving towards you as you overtake it,and the
    driver saying he was going to report you.I had the same thing happen to
    me,and when I told him I would report him for dangerous driving as he
    swerved at me when I overtook him,to try and stop me,he shut up
    then. 
     The incident that started this note happens to me a lot,I find it is
    USUALLY young in-experianced drivers or company car drivers.
     Some one in this note refers to me as a slow driver,but I try to get
    from A to B without having an accident or annoying other drivers,I try
    to keep to the speed limit (if I know what it is),and I also drive in a
    way that doesn't ware my car out e.g expensive tyres.I do not think I
    am an expert driver,but I do think I drive safely,which even some of my
    mad-ass friends have said to me.like that they feel safe when I give
    them a lift,which I take as a great complement. 
     I think one of the other things people should learn is,if you want to
    kill yourself thats ok,but when you have a pasenger they don't have any
    choice about what you do.
     If you give me the reg of the Fiesta,I work at Winnersh.
    
    Tyrone
    

    re.-1
    
    That about sums me up. When I'm by myself, I drive different to when
    there's someone else in the car. Weird.....
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    
    
    
    ref.31
         
    
    
        Q.  who works at winnesrh triangle with a red fiesta?
    
        A.  TYRONE { ref.31 }
    
       matt..........
       
       
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    p.s.  only joking TY

    Is this ever an emotional subject or what!.
    
    Interesting to see that no'ones name was ever posted as to the possible
    culprit so I assume Richard never found out.
    
    I'll add my comments with the possibility of alienating myself in that
    I served for three years as a special constable.
    
    With regards to calling the Police, ask yourself first "do you have the
    ammunition fro them to make it worth their while following up?". If you
    do tell them and write as much down as possible at the earliest
    opportunity and date and time when you did it. Its very hard to do but
    stay calm, get registration numbers of people around you, note the
    time, conditions alll the usual stuff you fill in on our accident
    report forms and a damm good description of the event. Try and be
    emotionally balanced.
    
    	If the evidence is good they can then take someone to task and may
    require a court visit with you in attendance. Even if the offending
    party gets a good rolloking it tends to warn them that their driving
    has not gone un-noticed and any future event involving driving may well
    have this event brought to light as further evidence of past histories.
    
    You may well save a child on a crossing from some prat who has'nt
    learnt his/her lesson. You might has witnessed a very odd occurance
    that the offender probably feels guilty about themself when given the
    chance to think the situation through (we've all been there right!).
    Letting it go and keeping a tight upper lip is all very English but
    every now and then you need to make a point.
    
    As for pulling someone over, Royston made the comment earlier "risky"
    even I would think twice with a warrant card in my pocket but I have to
    admit it does come in handy to advise people of the error of their ways
    if its really necessary. However and Off Duty officer is just that and
    I would have to report it to an on duty officer just the same as any
    other road using humam being.
    
    I believe since the note started the have named this topic ROAD RASH.
    
    It dont suppose it'll get easier with more traffic than ever on the
    road.
    
    Cheers 
    
    Tim S 
     

    Thanks Tim for a well balanced response.
    
    Royston

    I suspect, Tim, that you meant "Road Rage", not "Road Rash".
    
    Laurie.

    Laurie
    
    	I was still chewing it over as I drove home last thursday night and
    watching the old little tussle between drivers. I then realised what
    I'd put and what I mean't. Well spotted.
    
    Cheers
    
    Tim S

One thing about road rage/bad driving  I have noticed, is that some drivers seem
to be on the 'receiving end' of it far more than others. A couple of people I
know  seem to get involved in these sort of incidents quite often, - I know
their driving styles and can't put it down to them driving badly, - so what do
they do to deserve the problems? or is it more in their own control than they
would like to admit- ie if someone else is trying to make an 'ill-timed'
manoever in front of you, there are a few options - 

     a) drop back, and let them make their manoever,giving them the benefit of
the doubt that they don't know whare they are going...

     b) let them make the manoever, but make it obvious that they are 'pushing
in' - and that you have been inconvenienced by them

     c) make *&^&*% sure that they can't make the manoever by closing the gap, -
that was yours by right anyway,

.....b and c drivers, while possibly technically driving within the law, will
probably result in two drivers starting to get angry at others, which in
repeated incidents will possibly end up in a 'road rage' incident, whereas in a)
both drivers stand more chance of going on their way without raising the blood
pressure.

I know this is a very sweeping example, and sometimes  drivers make such sudden
'bad' decisions that emergency/sudden use of the brakes is necessary, or do such
silly things that even the most mild mannered will be roused, but maybe a little
more give all round would not come amiss.

    
    I think (a) is possibly the best choice; if they screw up again and it
    appears dangerous then just create a lot of space between yourself and
    them by any safe method.
    
    Chris.

    Elaine,
    
    If your friends really seem to suffer more then it is probably
    something about them or their surroundings that cause the aberration. A
    few things spring to mind:-
    
    Are they meek, or meek looking? It would be a brave person that raged
    at a truck full of scaffolders for example. If on the otherhand you
    drive a small japanese car then the likelihood is probably greater.
    
    Do they travel a route which is prone to rage? A route with many
    people, commuters trying to get to X by a time, this tends to induce
    rage. On a quiet road in the Dales rage is less likely.
    
    And so on.
    
    Perhaps they just tell you about it.
    
    There was a lady on radio Leeds today who had had a man lying on the
    bonnet pounding the windscreen in rage and the police, when rung on her
    mobile, said it wasn't an incident that classed as an emergency. No
    wonder the crime figures are down.
    
    Andrew

    Of course (a) is the best choice, and that is the choice everyone makes
    when on foot and someone inadvertently gets in their way. 
    
    However, people change when behind the wheel of a car and even the
    mildest mannered people will go to (b) or (c).
    
    I have noticed, though, that since I swapped my previous 120mph
    leasemobiles for a sedate Frontera, I find it much easier to keep my
    cool and stick at (a).
    
    Tony I 

    
 >>   I have noticed, though, that since I swapped my previous 120mph
 >>   leasemobiles for a sedate Frontera, I find it much easier to keep my
 >>   cool and stick at (a).
    
    If you drive a Frontera, options (b) and (c) are both available too !
    
    G.

    Yes, but for some reason I don't feel the need to use them!
    
    Tony I

    
    Tony,

    Does your Frontera have those anti pedestrian/motorcycle/cyclist
    devices fitted ( a.k.a. bull bars )

    Road Rager, yup and proud of it.....

    Try riding a motorcycle and have a cager ( affectionate name for a car
    driver ) cut you up.  I ride a blimmin great bike with the lights on
    all the time and some people still don't see me, prolly coz they don't
    look in their mirrors until after they have manoeuvred ( the signal
    normal comes half way through the change of direction ).

    Most car drivers don't understand the implications of riding a
    motorcycle and being "brushed" off.  It seems the only way to remind
    the cager is to slap their wing mirrors - not quite road rage but damn
    angry bikers!


    \_spike_/

Bikers wear steel inforced boots to inflict maximum damage to cars, not to
protect our feet... :-)

Elaine

    Well, Paul, if you take to the road with an attitude like that in (on) any
    vehicle you're asking for trouble. 
    
    Why are you directing your vitriol at me? Have I cut you up recently or
    something?
    
    Tony I

    
    
    
    o.k speaking of bikers
    
    
    I am relatively new in this country but I have to ask:
    
    what's with bikers driving up between lanes of traffic??
    
    It's one thing when you have 2 lanes going the same direction ( bad)
    
    but even worse when you have rush hour traffic, one lane each direction
    
    and a biker zips up along the middle lane like its their own domain.
    
    I don't know if this is legal ( would very much suprise me ) but it
    
    sure is dangerous!!!
    
    Chris
    :)

    
    
    Hi Royston
    
    
    I used to ride a bike too..but your wrong its dangerous to the
    cars as well. If a bike zips by a car ...often times it shocks the
    driver and could cause an accident.Moreover one incident in particular 
    comes to mind where a biker was overtaking  one heck of a long line
    of traffic on the Basingstoke road towards Reading. He was apporaching
    a corner and  zipped by me. All of a sudden a transport truck came
    around the corner the other way and this biker just barely squeezed
    into the lane beside a car. It seems to me that all 3 parties are at
    risk at the least and anyone doing highway speeds behind these vehicles
    in either direction.
    
    Chris
    :)

    
    
    re -2
    
    
    also , overtaking is acceptable, riding between lanes of traffic
    isn't  ( IMHO that is ) and this is the case that i wrote my original
    question about. Is this legal?
    
    Chris
    :)

I don't know if it is legal or not - but I've never heard of anyone being 'done'
for it! - perhaps it's 'cos they can't catch us! :-)  

Anyway - if I was stopped from riding between lanes, my bike would then only be
used for 'pleasure' riding - if I'm having to sit in a queue of traffic to get
to work , I might as well sit in a cage with the elements on the outside, and
the radio on, particularly in the winter, and that would just add to the traffic
conjestion. 

re: the note on causing accidents, in your example, yes maybe the bike rider was
to blame, there are inconsiderate riders, as there are inconsiderate motorists,
any of whom may make a manouever that is potentially hazardous to themselves and
or others, but I would argue that, in general, bike riders are far more traffic
aware than the average motorist, on account of having all their crunchy bits on
the outside! :-) 

RE: Lane splitting on a bike,

If you are not crossing a solid white line, then it's perfectly legal.

I only do it when the traffic is stationary or crawling. 
If the traffic is moving at over 20 MPH I pull in and follow the
traffic, unless there's an opportunity to overtake.

Huw.

What I want to know is, why do some motorcyclists drive about 3 feet
behind me with their full beam headlights on?  Blinding me isn't a good
way to get my cooperation...

Chris.

    Yes, I too always stay well to the left when a motorcycle is coming up
    behind. It's especially worth it when you get a nod or wave of thanks
    from the rider. Being courteous on the road and receiving courtesy back
    can really cheer up your journey.
    
       Tony I

    
    Tony,

    Sorry if you took the note personally - not intended.

    General comment about bull bars and how damn dangerous they are - I
    have pictures of motor-cyclist helmets that have been shattered on bull
    bars, covered in blood, not a pretty sight.

    Lane splitting is legal - even on a solid line ( so long as you don't
    cross the line ), it is only illegal on zig-zig lines at pedestrian
    crossings etc. ( Which makes sense )

    Before we get into bike v car arguments.  I agree some bikes a bl**dy
    irresponsible but like the 17 year old with a huge stereo and a heavy
    right foot, are the minority you tend to remember.  Yes, I do ride
    fast, yes I lane split, yes I have had *very* loud exhausts, but on the
    whole a biker has no choice but to be responsible or dead.

    Try passing a bike test today - you would wet yourself a what's
    involved!  4 parts to it, including a written test & power limitations.
    Car drivers can purchase what they want ( insurance premiums
    permitting) immediately after passing a one part test.  

    Strange, you never see bikers beating the living daylights out of each
    other ( well not over riding protocol! ).  I know it's frustrating to
    watch a biker ride up the outside of the traffic you are sat in, but
    that's the reason we ride them - to avoid the traffic.  We are thought
    of as irresponsible, but we use eco-friendly lean burn engines with a
    mode of transport that does little damage to the roads, don't cause
    traffic jams and have a *much* harder test to pass.  Before you cuss at
    a bike remember that he has to sit in your spray in wet weather, get
    wet and cold, and spend 10 minutes either end of the journey getting
    changed.

    All bikers ask is that you use your mirrors before you manoeuvre &
    gives a little room to get past.  

    I believe road ragers are just stressed out children.
    \_spike_/

    
    Chris,
    
    The motor-cyclist is prolly trying to read the stickers in your back
    window ;^)
    
    
    \_spike_/

that's okay if they're trying to get Digital's sales number!

Chris.

    
    
    wow!! what a response!!!
    
    interesting about the lane slitting being legal.
    
    Chris_learning_the_law
    :)

    
    re:.54,.58
    
    Erm...yeah, I sort of agree with what you're saying Chris.
    
    A lot of times when I'm stuck in traffic I'll consciously move over for
    a bike 'cos they have a much better chance of getting somewhere when I
    can't - this even happens if I'm doing 70 on a motorway and there's a
    bike screaming up behind me (sometimes) when I'm stuck behind traffic.
    What I do object to is bikers literally two feet off the rear of the
    car hanging around on the right hand side harassing me - it makes me
    nervous thinking what could happen to 'em when I brake, not that I'm
    liable to brake sharply, but if someone cuts me up I might have to...
    
    I know that bikers have a much better view of the road ahead than at
    (most) car driver heights, but it still makes for a precarious way to
    get somewhere.
    
    Chris.

    
    Chris,

    First I need to clarify - lane splitting is legal between 2 lanes of
    different direction traffic or stationary multi lane of the same
    direction.  Although there is no law against under-taking you are
    likely to get nicked for dangerous driving/riding in moving traffic of
    the same direction.

    Re: out braking a bike.

    Very unlikely, a motorcycle typically weighs 200 kg's and has 4/6 pots per
    disk at 2 or 3 per side of the disk( normally twin disks on the front ),
    and normally a twin pot rear disk.  Combine this with a sticky set of
    tyres that only last 3000 miles you can normally stand a bike on its
    front wheel ( or flip it over ) with hard braking.  However this does
    not excuse bad riding, such as bumper hugging.

    If a biker is that close, then that's his look out - he's the one
    that'll get hurt if it all goes pear shaped.


    \_spike_/
     

    
    re:.61
    
    Spike, I didn't say I could stop quicker than a bike; if I have to stop
    quickly or swerve and the biker who is up my proverbial arse isn't
    quite with it then he's as good as cat food.
    
    Chris.

    Chris, I'd worry about what is in front of you and let the bumper
    hugging biker watch out for himself. Perhaps if you pull in ever so
    slightly there will be enough room for him to overtake as this is
    obviously what he is trying to do.
    
    Royston

    
    re:.63
    
    Very true Royston, but if I'm in a row of steady moving traffic (e.g.
    60-80mph) with the relevant distance between myself and the car in
    front and a row of cars at the side of me in the other two lanes then
    there's no-where to go without making the car in the middle lane brake
    when I pull across to let the biker pass.
    
    Chris.

    
    Chris,
    
    point taken - the problem you and all of us experience is the slow
    medium, fast mentality for the three lanes on a motorway, although I
    wonder how many MORE accidents we'd see if we did use the motorway in
    the manner suggested in the highway code?
    
    If you do have to swerve at least you'll be able to see that " OH MY
    GOD!!" expression om the biker's face ;^)
    
    
    \_spike_/

    I would appreciate input from a biker on this one - 
    Each morning I sit in a virtually stationary row of traffic coming down 
    the Peppard Road into Caversham. It's a single lane, so for many years, 
    I've pulled over to the left to let cyclists and motorcyclists come
    down on the outside. But recently I think I've angered a few cyclists 
    by obstructing their path as they come down between me and the kerb. 
    Now, I don't know who to try to please! (being a very non-aggressive
    motorist ;-). Should bikes and pedal cycles come past on the nearside, 
    or should they overtake on the offside?
    regards
    DaveT  

Reminds me of the time I was turning right through a tight space between
two traffic islands, and a biker and a moped tried to simultaneously
overtake me, one on either side.  It was quite tricky to avoid hitting
either of them.  Patience, lads!

Chris.

    
    Being a "biker" type here is my thought of the day ( us biker's only
    have one ;^)
    
    I would say the push bike should get the consideration, he has less
    chance than I have.  I can go wide around you where the cyclist has no
    where to go except into your car ( costly for both of you ) or up the
    kerb at the expense of his/her wheel rim.
    
    
    \_spike_/

    
    re:.66
    
    Yep, the cycle gets the vote from here.  A general rule is that
    consideration should be given in priority of pedestrians and cyclists
    due to the fact that they have the least ability to get out of the 
    way.
    
    Chris.

re .68, .69,

in my case, both (the bike and moped) were vehicles of the motorised
variety.  Otherwise, I agree...

Chris.

    re .68
       Yes, I agree the cyclists probably need the kerbside space most.
    Many of them now take to the pavement all the way down the hill anyway.
    Other, braver cyclists, usually those on racing bikes, come down the
    offside with the motorcyclists, but risk the motorist who decides he's 
    had enough of the queue, and decides to do an instant U-turn. I saw one 
    nasty accident like that. The other phenomenon is the lady on a moped 
    who insists on going down the nearside of all the cars until she reaches 
    one she can't get past, then she tries to turn the moped sideways to get 
    out onto the offside of the cars. She mostly succeeds!
    Cheers
    DaveT

    
    I have 2 trains of thought on this subject:
    
        Cyclists are vehicle users and therefore subject to the same rules
    as any other road user. Should they flout these rules/laws then they
    are liable to prosecution. so read the highway code and make your own
    mind up as to where they pass.
    
     The other thought is that they are a law unto themselves, they can
    pass through red lights, ride on pavements, break most highway laws and
    get away with it, therefore I think that as they don't pay towards
    their use of the road (road fund license) and they go where they want
    then it's up to them to make their own space and miss me...  :-)
    
    As per lane splitting...
        The only rule to look out for is "do not under any circumstance
    straddle or cross solid white line or area" as this is illegal under
    the raod traffic act. Contrary to popular belief the broken white line
    does not separate 2 opposing lanes (single lane carriage way). The fact
    is that the kerb stones enclose a single carriage way which for ease of
    operation is sectioned so that the opposing vehicles can pass safely.
    So when there is no opposing traffic, or if it safe to do so use of
    "the otherside" of the road to aid vision, progress and or safety
    should be perfectly normal behaviour, it is for me anyway.....
    
      Alan 

    I know that when I was back in the UK last year and doing some driving
    around ["up and down" the south coast and also over to the
    Reading/Newbury area] I was surprised at just how things had changed
    over the years in the UK. For example, much more agressive driving
    habits, middle and fast lane jockeys [who didn't overtake anything for
    miles], a good number of cars driving over the chevrons [which were
    there for safety to allow traffic to feed off for a right turn etc.],
    going through red lights [the light had been on so long you could have 
    fried an egg on the light cover!], speed limits [were there any?]!
    
    All in all it made me feel right at home coming from the south of
    France!
    
    Dave

    
    Dave,
    
    a cool quote came from the Sunday Times Magazine ( If I remember
    correctly ).  The article was about 10 things aliens would notice if
    they visited earth, among them was the only one I remember now....
    
    Speed limits do not apply to motorcyclists! 
    
    If only ;^)
    
    \_spike_/
    

re .74,

I think it's fair enough for motorcyclists to enjoy being able to overtake
slower traffic and drive at the maximum speed limit, especially as they've
made various sacrifices, like exposure to the elements, reduced safety, etc,
but it does annoy me when I (frequently) see them doing probably over twice
the speed limit through residential areas.  I know that they can stop more
quickly because they're light and have good brakes, but that doesn't increase
driver response time - and quarter of a ton of steel can cause an awful lot
of damage!

Chris.

    
    There is an additional danger, when you and I look up a street we make
    a judgement on how far a vehicle will travel,  if I am on my motorcycle
    doing 70 in a 30 ( allegedly )  I am going to travel a damn site
    further than you expect, so you ( or I ) pull out think we can safely
    join the flow of the traffic and the motor-cyclist ploughs into the
    side of you car.

    I wonder how many motor-cyclist have lost their lives this way, with
    their relatives blaming the car driver?

    nuff said!

    \_spike_/