Conference terri::cars_uk

What do you mean exactly? I would have thought a booster seat and normal
rear seat belt would be sufficient for a 5 year old.

Ian

    Don't know of any 'child harnesses' for use in cars.
    Thought of using a proper harness - as fitted to competition cars ? !!!
    
    I have fitted a rear seat belt which includes an extra strap to allow
    for it to be adjusted for a child, but still useful for an adult.
    That was fitted where you already have rear seat belts, so will not
    solve your problem.
    
    There are some 'horror stories' going around to the effect that the
    lap-type belts, as fitted to the middle seat of many cars, are very
    dangerous in an accident.  Children and adults (I believe) have been
    seriously injured by these, since they do not restrain the torso.
    
    Whether that is better or worse than the fate they may suffer if
    sitting in the middle of a rear seat with no seat belt is debatable...
    
    J.R.

    How about adopting the "airbag idea" and fit her with a large
    inflateble band......
    
    Re .1 Quite right. Also don't be alarmed too much by all the panick
    messages about what MIGHT happen. 
    
    Peter

re: .1

I spoke to the Citroen dealer about having another 3 point seat belt fitted,
they said you can't do it.

My son already uses a lap belt in my other car, what I'd really like is another
3 point belt or a harness as I too have also heard about the lap belt horror
stories etc.

For children you may also want to consider padded belt covers.

These pads (similar to roof rack pads when you put something like a windsurfer
on top) enclose the belt, and when fitted to the 'neck height' part of the 
belt, they prevent neck injuries in minor accidents (apparantly).

What horror stories have people heard?

-Steve

Lap belts dangerous? Does not say a lot for aircraft safety.

Meanwhile, back on the topic, we have two Britax Freeway seats. One of the
seats, which is about one year old, developed a hairline crack in one of the
harness components (made of plastic). We contacted the retailer (Heelas) and
they contacted Britax. Britax instructed Heelas to replace the chair with a
new one at their expense (no further questions asked). Heelas delivered the new
chair and took away the old.

Dave.

Lap belts are dangerous in cars, as the upper body is not supported and you
can do serious damage to your lower stomach and groin, not to mention the 
effect on your neck.

In a plane, most crashes are known before they happen and passengers 
will assume the crash position in good time.

I use a Cossato seat for birth to 4 years and have had no problems with it.
I find the 5 point belt a little cumbersome, but it's proabably very effective.

Ian

>Lap belts are dangerous in cars, as the upper body is not supported and you
>can do serious damage to your lower stomach and groin, not to mention the 
>effect on your neck.

	lap OR ordinary belts can be very nasty to stomachs or groins......
	.........the one accros the middle should be across the hips

	Heather

    You used to be able to get from either mothercare or Halfords a bar
    which fitted across behind the seats and belts that bolted onto this
    bar. As My kids are now older I've not really taken any further notice.
    
    The problem with the Three pinter in the middle is where do you secure
    the upper part to?. This cross bar provided one solution. Looping over
    the top and fixing to the floor isn't really on as it would allow the
    seat to collapse onto the child. 
    
    You could alternatively fit extra long straps to the rear pillars of
    the AX, it's not a great distance in this car.
    
    Richard 

Lap belts are designed to fit across the hip bones on adults. On small
children they tend to fit across the stomach; in a collision the
stomach can be badly compressed resulting in internal injuries. If you
have a choice, it's safer to put an adult in the lap belt and the child
in an ordinary belt.

Chris.

    I used a Kangol childs 4-point harness which secured to the rear parcel
    shelf. I guess your car has no such shelf, but you should be able to
    get a bar as mentioned earlier. This fits behind the rear seats & bolts
    to substantial areas of bodywork. ( The sponge rubber sounds a good
    idea).
    
    	Tony.