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Conference terri::cars_uk

Title:	Cars in the UK
Notice:	Please read new conference charter 1.70
Moderator:	COMICS::SHELLEYELD

Created:	Sun Mar 06 1994
Last Modified:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	2584
Total number of notes:	63384

1896.0. "New battery - NO acid! HELP!!!" by MUDIS3::VUSCLU::HATHWAY (Richard Hathway - Munich MFR) Wed Sep 23 1992 12:40

Help!

I have a Toyota SpaceCruiser Microbus (2 litre + automatic box) with
a kaputt battery.

The original (old) battery is unmarked except for Japanese text ...
and an embossed number something like 50Rxx.

I took size measurements and went to various corner garages until I found
what I believe is the correct replacement - a 50 AH unit. 

I cycled home with this thing [it cost 120 pounds ... Munich is expensive!]
and then found .... it ain't got no acid in it!!! The garage I bought from
told me to b*gger off ... they don't sell acid!

So 2 hours searching later I found ANOTHER corner garage with some acid
[38% strong] which I put into the battery. 

I then charged over night ... the current started at about 2 or 3 Amps
and next morning was down to about 0.5 or 1 Amp.
The problem is ... the new battery is NOT charged in any way whatsover!

So:

1. Is 38% acid correct ... I remember being taught at school that 60% strength
   acid is usual.

2. Do I have to "form" the lead plates somehow? (I remember this "plate forming"
   concept from someplace in my deep distant past)

3. Have I knackered the battery by putting the acid in? Can I drain it
   out and start again?

4. Do I give up on this one and buy a fully-filled fully-charged 45 AH
   unit from another local corner garage and somehow persuade it to fit the
   battery tray? Or will this blow up my charging electrics because of
   mismatches etc?

Any help would be most welcome .... thanks in advance.

Richard

P.S. They don't have Halfords etc here ... only zillions of poxy
     "corner garages" or VERY expensive main dealers.

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1896.1	Cor, what a palarver	FORTY2::HOWARD	It'll always be Pompey Poly !!	`Wed Sep 23 1992 13:07`	8
	That sounds a REAL hassle.....it makes you appreciate Halfords etc I suppose......... Sorry, dont know the first thing about batteries, good luck with it anyway !! Barry
1896.2		AEOEN1::MATTHEWS	M&M Enterprises, the CATCH 22	`Wed Sep 23 1992 14:14`	11
	New batteries are usually stored empty. When you buy them, they add the "acid", and the thing is ready to go without charging. Don't know how they do this, but it seems to be the case. The reason I put the acid part in quotes is that I'm not sure exactly what this mixture is, so it might be more than just acid ... inhibitors and other electrolytes may also be present. I can't believe that the garage you bought the thing from sold it to you without this "acid" in it. Couldn't they tell you what you needed to add to get it working ?
1896.3	Dont you just hate it when that happens ?	CMOTEC::JASPER		`Wed Sep 23 1992 15:36`	16
	...Cant you take the battery back & demand a replacement, threaten to sue, get a refund,ask for the name of a competent garage, or finally give them the opportunity to put things right ? Can you take your cruiser under tow if necessary & block their garage access until a resolution is found ? You shouldnt need a degree in electrolysis to buy a consumer item, I dont think fixing the battery is the problem here, it seems they've taken your hard-earned cash & failed to deliver the goods, i.e. a working battery that will stay working for (in UK) longer than one year. I think I would dry the battery out & insist they take it back, then fit the replacement in my car while I watched. I hope your command of the German language is good !
1896.4	Germany aint England!	MUDIS3::VUSCLU::HATHWAY	Richard Hathway - Munich MFR	`Wed Sep 23 1992 16:35`	26
	1. I have "usable" German but that doesn't extend to abuse etc. 2. I have found (most) garage staff in Munich to be in a class of their own. Politeness isn't their strong point. 3. As for courts etc, I would know what to do in the UK ... but HERE???? 4. I have found that main dealers sell ready-to-go batteries of the type I want at 50 quid! [I assumed that they would be like main dealers in the UK i.e. rip-off merchants. I was wrong - most people use dealers to service cars here ... car DIY is practically non-existent here] So ... I will be a pathetic weakling and buy ANOTHER battery ... hopefully one which works this time! However if anyone can advise me on how to "wake up" my "sleeping" battery please DO let me know! (I could use a spare, as the kids keep flattening the battery by leaving roof lights on and doors open overnight!) Thanks Richard
1896.5	sounds like someone's charging!!!	VIVIAN::P_MILNER		`Wed Sep 23 1992 19:48`	7
	Do you not know a German who could help you, take them with you to the garage, speak only to the boss and raise hell. Now wonder they have a strong economy if you have to buy things many times over before you can get a simple thing like a battery fitted. /phil
1896.6	The EC might have its uses :-)	IOSG::SHOVE	Dave Shove -- REO-D/3C	`Wed Sep 23 1992 21:45`	8
	Threaten them with EC Law. I've no idea whether Brussels have said anything about this kind of thing, but -- They won't have any idea either! D.
1896.7	Now have TWO good batteries!	MUDIS3::VUSCLU::HATHWAY	Richard Hathway - Munich MFR	`Fri Sep 25 1992 16:01`	25
	Bought new battery ... as mentioned in a previous reply they get empty battery, add acid and it gets hot. Ready to go when cooled down i.e. in about an hour or so. When I added acid to my empty battery it go hot too ... but wasn't ready to go even then! The new battery works fine ... so in view of the apparently identical sequence of actions I tested the "duff" battery again ... IT NOW WORKS! After a lot of messing about I found the problem ... I have a loose wire inside my multimeter .... THE ORGINAL BATTERY WORKED THE WHOLE TIME!! So I now have a duffish multimeter, a lot less pocket money and TWO new batteries! Oh well .... thanks for all the help everyone ... sorry for the wild goose chase! Regards, Richard "Embarrassed" Hathway
1896.8		AEOEN1::MATTHEWS	M&M Enterprises, the CATCH 22	`Fri Sep 25 1992 16:53`	2
	Still doesn't explain why they sold you a battery without acid in the first place ...
1896.9	Not unusual in Germany	UNTADH::STUBBS		`Fri Sep 25 1992 18:53`	7
	It seems to be standard practice in Germany. A friend had the same experience when buying a battery for his Motorbike. Also, they sold him far more acid than was needed! - Jonathan
1896.10	But in the UK	MARVIN::ROBINSON	OSI Upper Layer Architect	`Fri Sep 25 1992 19:27`	34
	Sometime back, I tried to get some acid ( not for battery use), but most battery places were unwilling to sell me any. I visited 3 places before one indicated he was willing to sell any. However, I do know some model engineering outlets which will sell 98% sulphuric acid over the counter. Much stronger than battery acid. Looks like it would be easier in Germany. Dave p.s. In case you are interested in why I want battery acid - its for pickling!!!!!!!!!!!!! metals to remove oxides following brazing andsilver soldering
1896.11		MAJORS::ALFORD	lying Shipwrecked and comatose...	`Mon Sep 28 1992 17:47`	5
	> p.s. In case you are interested in why I want battery acid - its for > pickling!!!!!!!!!!!!! Isn't vinegar a more normal liquid to pickle things in ?????