Conference terri::cars_uk

    Hilarious.
    
    Phil Gill.

    What's all this then, about British motors and shopping malls?
    
    I seem to remember watching the news a few months back, which showed
    some 'smash-and-grab' joy-riders, ramming shop door fronts in a Newcastle
    shopping mall....ain't it amazing what you can do with a BRITISH Range
    Rover! Not only can you drive it across the mall, you can destroy the
    place as well, before loading about a ton of stolen goods in the back.
    
    Good old BRITISH engineering eh!
    
    Or maybe it was a publicity stunt by Rover UK?

    Well I thought about buying an MG, but ... decided to really immerse
    myself in this...so I own a JAG.
    
    My favorite is from a mechanic who once said "British cars don't leak
    oil, they SWEAT it!"  (Hence you never can find all the leaks...)
    

The thing with British motors is not so much that they break down when doing
the shopping, but that you need a arm broken in four places to change the spark
plugs...

>but that you need a arm broken in four places to change the spark plugs...

I don't think you can have ever changed the spark plugs on a British
car...especially the sort that "sweat oil". 

Even a 10 year old can change the spark plugs on British cars....dead easy.

Now the bottom back bolt on a Mini radiator....that's a different story :-)

    	The Germans were never very good at spark plugs either - changing
    them on a VW Beetle or a Porsche is almost an engine-out jobbie!!
    
    Colin

    You have to take a wheel of the change one of the plugs on a 911 S,E or
    T.

It was certainly true on the original Brabham-Alfa - changing the fron 4 plugs
necessitated removing the engine.

    
    
    During the brief interlude when I could afford to play with a 911,
    I had great fun disconnecting the battery...... it's down a hole under
    the rear window-sill..... only you can't open the rear hatch if the
    battery's died, because the central lockery doesn't work......
    
    
    German Enginerring ?  Ha!   .... ;-)
    (note placatory smiley....)
    
    Ian

I found it pretty tricky on my old VW Transporter. I also remember it
was difficult on the old Renault 5 with in-line engine.

Mark.

Examples of British engineering :-

1) Changing the gearbox of a Triumph 2500pi with engine in place - there were
   bolts it was physically impossible to get to without drilling holes in the
   floor. Not to mention the 1500 front wheel drive which had prop shafts
   running *through* the sump of the North-South engine.

2) Landrover, where the floor needed to be removed to lift the gearbox out; not
   to mention continual removal of the rear diff to replace spider gears which
   (along with the axles) had a habit of breaking at the worst times.

3) Clutch removal on the BMC 1100.

4) Come to think of it, *anything* on the BMC 11/1300...

5) Jaguar V12 engine removal.

All these experiences gave me the definite impression that, while there was
excellence in the design of many of these objects, there was clearly little
or no consultation between the design chappies and the blokes who actually
manufactured the product, and fitted the various bits together.

In comparison, the Japanese clearly involve everyone in the process...

    Sparkplugs and batterys on a 911 Porsche
    
    On a 911 the battery is in the front, and the plugs can be reached
    and changed through the engine compartment. On a double ignition
    engine eventually you have to remove the engine. 
    I wonder what type of porsche you made your experience with?
    
    K.W.

    Seems as though a lot of these "can't get to mumble..." problems are
    caused by the order things are assembled in the factory.  They build a
    lot of drivetrain and so forth on these cars, and THEN lower the body
    onto the frame.  For thaty reason, I have always thought that the auto
    companies should make engineers build a prototype, take it home, and
    try to pull their OWN engine, before it goes into production.
    
    My favorite was the torsion bar tie plate on a Series 1 e-type.  We had
    to relieve the tension on the bolts before we could tap the plate back,
    remove it and drop the rear of the engine and transmission.  When the
    'relieve pressure' step came up, we yelled out "precision tool!"
    Which meant, hand me the crowbar....
    
    

I've worked on a number of 70's Jap cars, and have rarely found a bad one to
work on. Early Corrola's and Sunny's were not only a model of reliability, but
were a breeze to work on...

Slightly different note, speaking as one who hasn't got his hands dirty under a 
car bonnet for a number of years, I look under the bonnet of my 309gti wondering
what the hell I'd do if I had to do some major surgery.

The increasing amount of mechanical and particularly electrical complexity of
today's engines/engine management systems, is a major barrier to the diy'er.
It certainly increases the complexity and cost of maintenance...

	And there you have it.  Today's cars are *not* meant to be maintained
	at home.  Mostly, that's the price that you pay for better reliability,
	better fuel consumption, more "green" cars.  On the other hand, a lot
	of it is a spin off from the build process; easy to build is not easy
	to maintain.

	This is why Morris Minors are still popular in India.

	Dave

I wouldn't mind a morrie thou...