Conference terri::cars_uk

Please don't use the term "Knock for Knock". It is nothing to do with blame, it
is merely an internal agreement by various Insurers not to Sue each other and to
cover their own costs.

The insurers comment that you are not able to deal with this matter yourself is
incorrect. There is no legal compulsion on you to allow your Insurers deal with
any claim, although you must let them have full details. As you will have to
complete a claim form anyway, I would suggest you attach a ltter pointing out
that this form is for information only and they must not deal with it at this
time. The danger being that if you decide that you wish them to deal with it at
a later date, they may decline saying that there position had been worsened by
your actions.

It is not complicated by the injury so much as made more risky. Assume for the
moment that there was no PI. You could almost certainly bring the claim to a
complete standstill by totally denying the TP's story and sticking to your own.
with just your word against his, no decision will be made other than each of
your companies deciding that they will not sue each other since it isn't worth
it, pay their (your) own costs, disallow NCD on both policies pending successful
recovery of the policy excess by one or other of you.

Where the injury makes it complicated is that it will be difficult to sue the TP
for this injury since fault will be difficult, if not impossible, to establish.
This may not be a problem, since you may not want to claim. However, don't
discount the possibility that the other guy might decide to claim for whiplash
or some such.

In the first instance I would suggest that you invest a tenner, or whatever it
is these days, in a cht with a solicitor and take it from there. It might just
be simpler, if a little more expensive, to let it go through your insurance.
You'll almost certainly lose your bonus and you're unlikely to be able to claim
your excess back, but at least there is no risk of you trying to fight a TPI
cliam without the assistance of your insurers.

M.

Is it not true that an accident in which someone is injured *must* be reported 
to the police?

Sounds like the other driver stands to lose his license/pay a fine/go to jail..

I suggest that you (a) claim, and (b) sue!

/. Ian .\

>Is it not true that an accident in which someone is injured *must* be reported 
>to the police?

Yup.

>Sounds like the other driver stands to lose his license/pay a fine/go to jail..

Prosecution for "Failure to Report..." is rare. Generally only in those cases
where someone was actively trying to avoid reporting it. In other cases
punishment is pennies. It also has naff all to do with who is at fault.

    It is true that a personal injury accident must be reported, and with
    24 hours of the accident. Failure to report a personal injury accident
    can result in proceedings against the party who fails to report.
    
    If it is less that 24 hours and the wife has even a very minor injury,
    
    	a) report the accident, you stand to loose nothing by that, and
    
    	b) get your wife to go to a doctor or hospital to get the injury 
    	   looked at. If there is any dispute over the injury , doctor's or
    	   hospital records will standup better that a verbal "I hurt me
    	   neck" or what ever.
    
    
    And if you put it through the insurance company and chummie has not
    reported it , in the words of Bart Simpson , he;s in deep deep trouble.
    
    
    
    Garry

>    And if you put it through the insurance company and chummie has not
>    reported it , in the words of Bart Simpson , he;s in deep deep trouble.

Not really. Insurance company will give him a telling off, they may even refuse
to pay for his car, although this is incredibly unlikely, but they can't avoid
the injury claim. They are unlikely to bother since this should be avoidable
anyway. The police will certainly give him the once over, but if all his
documents etc are in order and he apologises, there isn't much chance of them
doing anything either.

    Not that it will help you now, but maybe others in the future...?....
    I had a similar incident a few years back, involving an articulated
    lorry on a country road. I went home, brought back a camera and took
    photos of the lorry's tyremarks (2ft over the centre line) and of the
    damage to my car. A long time after I had submitted my accident claim
    form (to Digital) I was able to produce the photos as evidence which
    knocked on the head the other party's claims of innocence and also got
    me an unexpected cheque for distress (an aggravated neck injury).
    
    Any corroborating tyre marks you could show? The position of the cars
    at the point of collision may also help to prove your car was
    stationary. Getting photos may help your case....
    
    Mike 

<----------------

Absolutely spot on. This will almost certainly win you a claim. As long as there
are skids marks or a load of car type damage in the road (broken glass etc)
Always draw a diagram with measurments if you can. And get anyone who passes to
sign the paper to say it is accurate.

M.

    
    Maybe, but I had a similar case a number of years ago and despite
    having photos, measurements, etc of tyre marks, I was told this couldn't 
    be used as evidence to support my claims as they could have been caused 
    before or after my accident.
    
    Mark

Hence the witness's signature.

    
    All that proves is that the tyre marks were there WHEN you took the 
    photos. Not worth a lot really.
    
    Mark

    Too late for Tim's wife, but I think a good rule of thumb is
    
    DON'T MOVE ANYTHING (if it's the other guy's fault) until either
    the police have seen the positions of the vehicles or some independent
    witness has signed some sort of plan. (They will if you are blocking
    the road :-))
    
    Incidentally, I believe that here in Germany it is against the law to
    move vehicles until the Police had seen them. (Causes absolute chaos
    when someone has a prang).
    
    Also, it seems that everyone was jumping to the conclusion that Tim's
    wife knew at the time that she had been injured - the other driver is
    only in trouble if he was made aware of her injuries at the time, and
    still didn't report it.
    
    But above all, get a *good* solicitor. If you get a bad one (as I once
    did), you end up with the other party getting a good one, and suing you
    :-(
    
    Rob

    If your wing is your only damage where was he damaged?. It's a fair bet
    if it was that narrow that it was about the centre line. That would
    give credance to your claim, and put his whole version in doubt.
    
    Richard

I had a simular accident a couple of years back. The AA claims service (option
with AA arranged insurance) pursued the claim and won after 9 months of hassling
on my behalf. During the 9 months they gave me regular updates on progress.

/Dave.

Mind you, you can get a lot of hassle from the "guilty party" by taking photos
at the scene!  Always take two photos, polaroid if possible, and sign and date
them, then give one copy to the other driver.

Brian
Polaroid camera (cheap one) in glovebox.

PS  I figure if the glove-box gets destroyed enough that I can't use the camera,
then I'm not going to be worried about a few pix!

    REF 6 & 7 - Thanks for the advice. 
    
    Wife has taken pictures which show clearly the position of her car and
    the skid marks the Third Party drew on the tarmac!
    She has a witness to the position of her car and the skid marks, and we
    hope to get the witness to sign a statement to that fact today or tomorrow.
    
    Wife went to Doctors the day after the accident (happened Monday 16th),
    and again last Friday. Has a referal to the hospital this afternoon for
    'hand' measurement ie degree of disability caused to date.
    
    We will also have a chat to a solicitor friend of ours for his legal
    opinion on the matter.
    
    Many thanks one and all.
                           
    Tim