T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
1463.1 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | RS with the RS | Tue Jun 11 1991 18:50 | 10 |
| Re; >What (if any) benefit is there to stay in the Digital UK car
>leasing scheme these days.
My package is a) Salary + car or
b) Salary + 0
The benefit of staying in the car scheme is that I get a brand new car
for nothing (ok, so I pay tax on it).
- Roy
|
1463.2 | Not the same as OWNING, though. | NEWOA::SAXBY | A house! My kingdom for a house! | Tue Jun 11 1991 18:54 | 6 |
|
Well, you get the use of a brand new car. You can't sell the car,
buy a cheaper, secondhand one and use the rest of the money for a
holiday, can you?
Mark
|
1463.3 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | RS with the RS | Tue Jun 11 1991 18:59 | 11 |
| Mark, the point I was making is that I don't have an option of getting
a car _or_ the money. The option I get is a car _or_ nothing.
Having a new car with insurance, road tax, and servicing all free is
worth the tax I have to pay and in my opinion a lot less worry than
owning a car.
- Roy
(You seem to have a habbit of contridicting my comments whenever I
submit a note :-) )
|
1463.4 | | NEWOA::SAXBY | A house! My kingdom for a house! | Tue Jun 11 1991 19:09 | 19 |
|
Sorry Roy, if you think I'm getting at you! :^)
I agree entirely that salary + car HAS to be better than salary + 0
(even if you did choose a Fiasco! :^)). At current levels, you'd have
to run a very cheap car to pay less than you do in tax. You certainly
are getting the use of a car on the cheap.
If, however, you have (as I said, but you do not have) the choice of
taking an equivalent sum in cash (which is/used to be the case for
some Digital employees), you can spend that on a car and/or something
else. You could buy, say, a cheaper, older car and a boat, or a
timeshare (:^)).
Leasing ties you in, but if you buy a car you can always convert it
into cash if you need/want to (given the usual disclaimers about HP,
etc).
Mark
|
1463.5 | | NEWOA::SAXBY | A house! My kingdom for a house! | Tue Jun 11 1991 19:11 | 5 |
|
Ah, I said all that about having the choice in a note which I decided
not to enter. Sorry about that folks! (esp Roy).
Mark
|
1463.6 | some points against the lease scheme... | SHIPS::ALFORD_J | an elephant is a mouse with an oper. sys. | Tue Jun 11 1991 19:23 | 31 |
1463.7 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | RS with the RS | Tue Jun 11 1991 19:24 | 11 |
| .4 makes things clearer.
For employees who have the choice of money or a car, then the option to
take the money makes more sense for the reasons Mark stated.
For the last couple of years new employees have not had the choice.
It wouldn't surprise me if things change in the near future though as
I've already heard a rumour. (but I wouldn't want to enter it here :-)
- Roy
|
1463.9 | some figures... | SHIPS::ALFORD_J | an elephant is a mouse with an oper. sys. | Tue Jun 11 1991 19:40 | 45 |
1463.10 | A couple of points: | SED750::KORMAN | tgif!! | Wed Jun 12 1991 13:26 | 28 |
| Just a couple of points:
The way I understand it (and I may be wrong);
The rules about leaving/not rejoining etc the lease scheme are a result of
the (wierd) way the Inland Revenue treats Digital's scheme re VAT. Currently,
if you contribute some of your salary towards the car, the company is able to
reclaim the VAT on the entire lease cost, not just on the bit it pays for, so
the contribution you have to make is towards the lease cost NET of VAT.
Apparently, if we could join/leave the scheme at will, Digital could reclaim
VAT only on the part of the lease cost it paid, and your contribution would
have to cover the remaining VAT element ie it would go up for the same car.
Regarding the IR treating a car leased by an employee who does not receive
even the basic allowance as a company car; the amount of the lease
(net of VAT) is deducted from your gross salary, and you then pay tax on the
standard company car benefit level.
The alternative is for you to pay for the lease (INCLUDING VAT) out of your
net salary, and not have it treated as a company car - I think you'll find
that with the current level of company car benefit, the exisitng method is a
better deal.
If the CC benefit ever gets up to the same level as the basic lease cost+tax,
this might be different
Dave
|
1463.11 | | HAMPS::NICHOLLS | All of the above | Wed Jun 12 1991 13:41 | 8 |
| re .9
That makes me feel really great! I changed jobs within the company
last year and lost my company car and got no compensation whatsoever
as Digital sees a company car as a tool for the job!
|
1463.12 | | NEWOA::SAXBY | A house! My kingdom for a house! | Wed Jun 12 1991 14:40 | 7 |
|
Jane,
Re -a few. Why is the Rover 820 in the over 2 litre bracket? Isn't it
under 2 litres?
Mark
|
1463.13 | | SHIPS::ALFORD_J | an elephant is a mouse with an oper. sys. | Wed Jun 12 1991 14:51 | 5 |
|
> Re -a few. Why is the Rover 820 in the over 2 litre bracket? Isn't it
> under 2 litres?
Don't know, I just typed the table in as it was in the paper.
|
1463.14 | | DUCK::KINGHORNJ | Funtime Software {:o) | Wed Jun 12 1991 16:09 | 9 |
1463.15 | Defending Digital | BAHTAT::BAHTAT::HILTON | How's it going royal ugly dudes? | Wed Jun 12 1991 18:01 | 19 |
| re .8
Yeh but how would you fit a couple of customers, 2 decstations and you
briefcase onto a motorbike?
Come on guys the Digital car scheme is *EXCELLENT* when compared to
most (maybe all) other computer manufacturer's schemes. My friends of
higher rank than me working for other manufactuers get
Vauxhall Astra 1.3
Ford Orion 1.3
and they have a choice of buying up to stuff like the 1.4Sli Rover, or
the Montego Gti beast - this cost's them about 600 pounds a year before
tax.
So thing yourself lucky. IMHO we have a very good car scheme.
Greg
|
1463.16 | | NEWOA::SAXBY | A house! My kingdom for a house! | Wed Jun 12 1991 18:07 | 9 |
|
Derek's comments should be taken with a pinch of salt. I doubt many
companies would provide anyone with a kit car! As .15 says the car
is, primarily, provided as a business tool and should be capable of
fulfilling that role.
IMHAUO, I reckon the choice on the Digital scheme is excellent.
Mark
|
1463.19 | Deal clincher or killer? | NEWOA::SAXBY | A house! My kingdom for a house! | Wed Jun 12 1991 18:43 | 5 |
|
Looking at it from the other side, I bet a fair number of customers
would like to be taken to lunch in an exotic sportscar! :^)
Mark
|
1463.20 | Quit your moaning !! | KURMA::SALLY | | Wed Jun 12 1991 18:48 | 6 |
| re: 1463.15
I agree, I think the range of cars offered is excellent; just remember
what business we are in !!!
Count yourself lucky that you have any choice at all !!!
|
1463.21 | Wise up, chaps | BAHTAT::BAHTAT::HILTON | How's it going royal ugly dudes? | Wed Jun 12 1991 19:42 | 9 |
| You have to be careful. If customers see you in a flash car they can
assume your company makes to much money ( and hence you should give
them a good discount).
Derek - So you want Digital to PAY for your company bike and then PAY
for transporting stuff because you choose a bike? Somehow I don't think
they would.
Greg
|
1463.22 | | NEWOA::SAXBY | A house! My kingdom for a house! | Wed Jun 12 1991 19:54 | 10 |
|
Re .21
Hence my last notes title! :^)
It can work both ways. Sometimes a nice car can make an impression of
success and financial well-being that a customer will feel he can rely
on, but it can, as you say, work the other way too!
Mark
|
1463.23 | A topical note, for me... | HEWIE::RUSSELL | Hari Krishna, Hari Ramsden, Hari Hari | Wed Jun 12 1991 19:54 | 25 |
1463.24 | | VOGON::MITCHELLE | Beware of the green meanie | Wed Jun 12 1991 20:17 | 18 |
|
re the motorbike arguement..........
Someone pointed out the 'additional' costs of transporting kit if the
person were to travel by bike. I thought that in many cases (for field
service' type jobs), the kit was delivered separately anyway.
Everyone's job is different, but, in cases where the person is not normally
expected to carry kit, then I don't see why a car cannot be borrowed on
the rare occaisions when it is needed, this more than being compensated
for by the low cost of running the average 600cc motorbike!
What happens currently if someone does not have a car, or runs an old
banger - and they are asked to do something outside of their normal
job? eg visit a customer where public transport is not really an
option? I agree with Derek - I'd rather the person I was supposed to
meet turned up on time!
|
1463.25 | | SHIPS::ALFORD_J | an elephant is a mouse with an oper. sys. | Wed Jun 12 1991 20:44 | 14 |
1463.26 | | SHIPS::SAUNDERS_N | Village Idiot says RKE | Wed Jun 12 1991 21:11 | 29 |
1463.27 | It's too big, the cat ate it, etc etc | BAHTAT::BAHTAT::HILTON | How's it going royal ugly dudes? | Thu Jun 13 1991 12:28 | 12 |
| re the bike argument
How can you argue that 'sorry I'm late, it's because I've got a car" is
a valid excuse? Just leave earlier!
If I was a customer and someone gave me the above as an excuse I
wouldn't be over impressed with them from the word go.
Remember we are a computer company, not a racing car/bike/whatever
company.
Greg
|
1463.28 | | SHIPS::ALFORD_J | an elephant is a mouse with an oper. sys. | Thu Jun 13 1991 13:17 | 18 |
1463.30 | progress = not sitting in traffic.. | ODDONE::BELL_A1 | | Thu Jun 13 1991 14:41 | 30 |
|
Dereck,
Being a customer services engineer I am 100% behind you on the
"company bike" issue. I have raised this issue with various managers
and the only excuse that I get is: A) where would you put all your
manuals. B) The DIGITAL image is not one of motorcyclists. My point is
that I don't have any manuals in my car that are not at telesupport.
(only a phone call away), and I when I'm riding the ZX10 I wear full
leathers that are not covered in grease/torn/scruffy...quite
presentable for a biker really :-). NOT all bikers wear torn/oily jeans
and leather jackets that look 40 years old.
When I get the bike back from having its post accident repairs I am
willing to prove the point that my motorcycle is cheaper, greener and
quicker (A to B) than any 4 wheel tin box.
Heres the plan: on a bank holiday saturday I am willing to meet any
car driver in the DEC park car park at 09:00. Leave the car park at
09:30 and head for Hayling Island (we all know where that is.....don't
we?). The only catch is that the last person to get there feet wet in
the sea pays all the expenses (petrol, food, beer etc). I don't care
what car you take (be it kit form, porshe, ferrari, renault 5 GTT et
al).
BTW. the average time I take to get to Hayling Island (bank holidays)
is 78 minutes...
Alan.
|
1463.31 | Company bike = one less car in the traffic jam | VOGON::MITCHELLE | Beware of the green meanie | Thu Jun 13 1991 15:01 | 11 |
|
I wonder how much time is wasted in any company because of the "must
leave an hour early for an appointment - just in case" and then
spending most of that hour sat in a cafe round the corner from the
place of the meeting? Yes, you may be able to do some constructive
work in that time in the cafe - but how often?
Motorcyclist does not equal greasy yob - and the sooner companies
realise this and allow those people for whom it is a sensible
alternative, to have a company/lease bike, instead of a 4-wheel
member of a traffic jam, the better for all road users!
|
1463.32 | plenty of room... | COMICS::COOMBER | Endurance racers do it all night | Thu Jun 13 1991 15:02 | 11 |
| I don't have a company bike but I too ride one, I can put manuals in
the panniers, topcase. I do got to customer site quite freqently on it
and they would never know. I stash the waterproofs and helmet in the
panniers. It's still cheaper in every respect although the cost price
is higher than a small car, say a metro or something like that. I would
have thought a nice shinny BMW K100LT says enough about the person
riding it and also poo poos the idea that you cant carry manuals.
Garry
|
1463.33 | Back to the Lease scheme ...... | VOGON::KAPPLER | but I manage ... | Thu Jun 13 1991 15:17 | 9 |
| As a contributor to a recent review of the lease scheme, I find this
topic particularly useful and relevant.
Could I therefore politely ask the "motorbike vs car" debaters to take
their discussion to another topic.
Thanks,
JohnK
|
1463.34 | Rumours. . . | HAMPS::JORDAN | Chris Jordan, Digital Services - Office Consultant, London | Thu Jun 13 1991 15:28 | 3 |
| Further rumours that I have heard (completely un-substantiated at the
present time) include the time period of the lease. This will be
50,000 miles, HOWEVER long that takes to be achieved.
|
1463.35 | Taking the money | ASKFOR::JENKINS | | Thu Jun 13 1991 18:09 | 15 |
1463.36 | | SHIPS::SAUNDERS_N | Village Idiot says RKE | Thu Jun 13 1991 20:50 | 15 |
1463.37 | | SHIPS::ALFORD_J | an elephant is a mouse with an oper. sys. | Fri Jun 14 1991 12:44 | 10 |
|
Re: 34
> Further rumours that I have heard (completely un-substantiated at the
> present time) include the time period of the lease. This will be
> 50,000 miles, HOWEVER long that takes to be achieved.
The rumour that I heard (completely un-substantiated at the present time)
was that FLEET were considering changing the lease contract to
60,000 miles/3 years.
|
1463.38 | Curioser and curioser... | HEWIE::RUSSELL | Hari Krishna, Hari Ramsden, Hari Hari | Fri Jun 14 1991 14:34 | 18 |
| I've just rung fleet, to confirm when my current lease is up; I ordered a
car last summer, on a 40,000 miles/year, 15 month lease, and I wanted to
check whether it was October or November it would be due for replacement.
The nice lady in fleet checked on the computer, and the date is
2nd February, 1993 (this is not a misprint!)
Apparantly, with the new EDI system in place, all orders are based on a 30
month contract - even though my order specified a shorter time, this is
ignored, and you have to send a memo to fleet to reduce the lease time!!!
It's a great shame that no-one bothered to tell anyone about this.
So, if you think your lease is for less than 30 months, and you ordered
a car after the EDI system was implemented, then think again......
Peter.
|
1463.39 | High Milage Fleet Cars | YUPPY::RAVEN | | Fri Jun 14 1991 16:40 | 12 |
| If a car is doing 40,000 miles per year, would it not be worth the
lease company taking the car back before a certain milage is reached,
60,000 miles say ?
When a car has done a certain milage the cost of maintenance will
increase, breakdown will become more frequent ( cost of hire car to
lease company ) etc , I would have thought that the lease company
would have a formula involving milage, cost of maintenace at this
milage and re-sale value of car ( The re-sale value can make or break
the profit for the company ) .
KR
|
1463.40 | more details ..... | VOGON::KAPPLER | but I manage ... | Fri Jun 14 1991 17:52 | 16 |
| I think there are some mis-conceptions in here regarding the sheme so
let me try and express my understanding.
Currently all drivers are charged on a 30,000miles/30mnoths cost. If
you anticpate a higher mileage rate than that, the lease company
charges a hogher rate, and Digital (through the flat charge to the CC)
picks up the difference. There is a mileage cap that you may change
your car at (50,000 I think), even though less than the 30 months may
have elapsed.
Also, Car Fleet administer the scheme and *implement* changes. However
it's the Personnel Committee, at which all functions are represented
who review and recommend changes to the scheme. I beleive the BOM is
the final approval authority.
JK
|
1463.41 | wrong culprit | CHEFS::OSBORNEC | | Fri Jun 14 1991 17:57 | 14 |
|
rathole re .39 --
It's not the EDI element of our new fleet system that determines 30 months.
EDI can handle whatever the company throws at it -- it just transports
the information.
It's the procedures that changed.
Colin Osborne, European Marketing Manager, EDI -- who rides a m/c to
business meetings, & leaves his company grotbox in the garage whenever
possible.
|
1463.42 | | MALLET::BARKER | Pretty Damn Cosmic | Fri Jun 14 1991 21:05 | 11 |
| re .40
> picks up the difference. There is a mileage cap that you may change
> your car at (50,000 I think), even though less than the 30 months may
> have elapsed.
This is not true. You have to stick it out to the bitter end of 30 months (well
maybe a bit less if your new car gets delivered early). My last car was over
57K and my current one is >52K with 3 months left to run.
Nigel
|
1463.43 | | CHEFS::CLEMENTSD | So much to do...so little time | Mon Jun 17 1991 12:48 | 7 |
| RE .41
which only goes to prove that 1) a computer's only as good as the idiots
put in front of it and 2) to screw things up **PROPERLY** takes a
computer......
|
1463.44 | How many miles ?? | WARNUT::SMITHC | one careful owner, low mileage !! | Mon Jun 17 1991 14:57 | 15 |
| re:42
Well, my car has almost 50,000 miles exactly, and should be replaced on
1/8 by a shiny new leasemobile. The current motor was delivered on 8/8/89,
i.e. a two-year lease.
When I ordered the current Batmobile, I stated that I'd do 25,000 per
annum. This gave me a two year lease. As it happens, I'm actually doing
27,000, so the total when I get shot of it will be around 54,000.
Mind you, if you've not already had a delivery date for your new car,
you could be looking at 60,000 miles/3 years, or so I've heard. Ooops, I
never said that ;-)
Colin
|
1463.45 | How about personal lease? | BAHTAT::BAHTAT::HILTON | How's it going royal ugly dudes? | Mon Jun 17 1991 16:16 | 5 |
| Has anyone investigated the 'personal' lease schemes advertised in
What Car etc. Would it be worth while opting out of Digital's scheme
and taking up your own private lease?
Greg
|
1463.46 | | TURB0::art | | Mon Jun 17 1991 16:27 | 10 |
| >> Has anyone investigated the 'personal' lease schemes advertised in
>> What Car etc. Would it be worth while opting out of Digital's scheme
>> and taking up your own private lease?
you really need to have your own company to make this worthwhile (for
various tax benefit reasons).
...art
|
1463.47 | | SHAWB1::HARRISC | Not very nice at all | Mon Jun 17 1991 17:48 | 4 |
|
re -1
Also you have to find your own insurance too!
|
1463.48 | | NEWOA::SAXBY | A house! My kingdom for a house! | Mon Jun 17 1991 19:27 | 13 |
|
There are some 'lease' schemes advertised, which effectively involve
you renting the car for a period and having all the bills paid
inclusively. The car isn't yours, but unlike a company lease scheme
(individual's can't lease I don't think) you don't get any of the tax
advantages.
The upshot is you get a similar scheme to Digital's, but as .47 points
out you usually have to get your own insurance.
Some dealers also do a purchase scheme with pre-paid servicing. This
a real con, unless you manage to buy a VERY unreliable car, get an
extended warranty, it's cheaper!
|
1463.49 | Whats the lease expensive? | RTOEU::TRAYNER | | Mon Jun 17 1991 20:05 | 35 |
1463.50 | ford lease | YUPPY::ELLAWAY | | Tue Jun 18 1991 15:24 | 14 |
| I read something the other day about ford doing a lease scheme for Jo
public but cant remember where. Basically you choose a car ford then
work out what the value of that car would be in 2 years time, then
divide the depreciation into 24 months and thats what you pay. I seem
to recall thata 1.4 fiasco was about 220 quid per month (didnt say
wether this included maintenance etc).
When the lease is over you can have the option to sell it privately
and pocket the extra if you've if you sell it for more than the agreed
price the ford said it would be worth 2 yrs previous.
worth thinking about if the resale values are reasonable!
Regards Martin
|
1463.51 | Do you believe what it says in the paper ;-) | SIEVAX::CORNE | Sometimes you get the Elevator, sometimes the Shaft | Mon Jun 24 1991 17:55 | 4 |
| Yesterdays Sunday Times (Business section) had some interesting
comments on this subject...
Jc
|
1463.52 | Well ???? | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | RS with the RS | Mon Jun 24 1991 18:45 | 1 |
|
|
1463.53 | Changes to Car Scheme | IEDUX::jon | She keeps the Moet et Chandon in a pretty cabinet... | Tue Jun 25 1991 15:56 | 117 |
1463.54 | My thoughts on the changes | IEDUX::jon | She keeps the Moet et Chandon in a pretty cabinet... | Tue Jun 25 1991 16:18 | 16 |
| The memo in .53 tells me that "some of the following may not be
relevant to" me as I am not eligable for the Supplement, without
specifying what. I'd like to know if I'm expected to accept my lease,
which I am paying for entirely myself, being extended from 30 to 36
months without the monthly payments being reduced?
If so, I am not very happy :-[.
The other question I have is whether the mileage cap has stayed at
50,000 or been increased to the rumoured 60,000. I might well do 50k
miles within 36 months.
The insurance weighting of sporty cars is another blow. I guess the
number of MR2's in the car park will decline from now on...
Jon
|
1463.55 | I wonder where the money goes... | HEWIE::RUSSELL | Hari Krishna, Hari Ramsden, Hari Hari | Tue Jun 25 1991 17:07 | 11 |
1463.56 | WE should share the savings by extending leases | LARVAE::LEYTON | Richard | Wed Jun 26 1991 12:03 | 9 |
| The desire to save money is obviously right in the current business
climate. I don't have any great problem about leases being extended by
six months (although my DECmobile will have done 75000 miles if kept to
36 months) but it is essential that WE also benefit from the reduced
lease costs - after all, it is US that are subject to a pay freeze, we
could do with a little relief.
Richard
|
1463.57 | Get real !!! | SUBURB::ALLYS | Reality... No Digital !! | Wed Jun 26 1991 12:26 | 5 |
| Re:-1
Should we also share from the increase in insurance cost ??????
|
1463.58 | | CHEFS::CLEMENTSD | So much to do...so little time | Wed Jun 26 1991 12:35 | 9 |
| My guess is that the "Standard" cars will carry an element of
insurance cost related to their group. This will determine the amount
of the car supplement (not Market supplement) that will go to the
insurance dept for their services..... on cars that are specially
quoted, there will be an insurance cost related to the group of the
car: if that's more than the "standard" allowance ALL the difference
will be charged to the driver.
Looks like the day of the exotica is over........
|
1463.59 | | CURRNT::CLIFFE | It's only a machine... | Wed Jun 26 1991 13:37 | 16 |
|
From VTX Carfleet NEWSFLASH
******************************* IMPORTANT ********************************
"In line with Company Policy all existing leases are to be extended by six
months. Please refer to the Personnel memorandum dated 25th June 1991.
As from 1st July 1991 all lease terms will be calculated based on 60K miles.
All orders presently due for delivery on or after 1st July will be cancelled.
Any quotes currently in the system are no longer valid. Fleet will be working
any exceptions to the above rule over the next month, and will advise any
employee affected accordingly."
******************************* IMPORTANT *******************************
|
1463.60 | WHAT?? | HAMPS::JORDAN | Chris Jordan, Digital Services - Office Consultant, London | Wed Jun 26 1991 13:45 | 12 |
| >>******************************* IMPORTANT ********************************
>>
>>"In line with Company Policy all existing leases are to be extended by six
>>months. Please refer to the Personnel memorandum dated 25th June 1991.
>>
>>As from 1st July 1991 all lease terms will be calculated based on 60K miles.
WHERE did this 60k miles come from???
I have just re-read the announcement and it CLEARLY states 36000/36
months. Who has dreamt up 60,000 I wonder...
|
1463.61 | Standard list? | BAHTAT::BAHTAT::HILTON | How's it going royal ugly dudes? | Wed Jun 26 1991 13:46 | 6 |
| Wonder what the "selected car list" will have on it? Standard Siera's
Cavilers etc?
I have no problems with this new policy, it may well turn out for the
best if this selected list gives us good deals.
Greg
|
1463.62 | Cross posted from DEC UK | UKCSSE::RDAVIES | I can't tryp for nots | Wed Jun 26 1991 13:50 | 46 |
1463.63 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | RS with the RS | Wed Jun 26 1991 14:12 | 15 |
| I like the idea that cars available for takeover will be discounted.
As for the 36k/60k question. The way I interpreted it the car should be
kept for 3 years or longer if 36000 miles hadn't been reached BUT as
the majority of cars would do a higher mileage the lease is BASED on
60000 miles.
I'm sure a lot of us who cover over 20k miles a year would like to know
if there is an upper limit to the mileage, because in 3 yrs at my
current rate I would be nearing the 80k mark !
I'm looking forward to seeing what is on offer in the "fixed price"
list of cars, cav's and sierras no doubt :-(
- Roy
|
1463.64 | If you don't like it ....... | VOGON::KAPPLER | but I manage ... | Wed Jun 26 1991 14:58 | 21 |
| From my knowledge base (and as I've said before).......
I'll use the new month/mileage bands, but you can substitute the old if
you wish......
The lease cost to *all* employees is based on 36months/36000 miles.
However, if your anticipated mileage is greater than 36,000, the lease
company charges the company a higher amount. This cost is borne by the
Company (or to put it another way, the rest of us!). If the anticpated
mileage will exceed 60,000 in 36 months, the lease period can be for
less than 36 months.
So, anyone out there whinging about there car having done 50,000 miles
and now they have to keep it for another six months and shouldn't they
get a rebate, etc, etc, is not getting much sympathy from me.
I believe the Company will collect the savings on extending the
existing lease contracts. I'd rather they did that than fire good
people who we may well need when the economy turns around.
JK
|
1463.65 | | NEARLY::GOODENOUGH | | Wed Jun 26 1991 15:25 | 4 |
| Just a thought - does this mean that the Car Fleet department will have
nothing to do for six months?
Jeff.
|
1463.66 | | SIEVAX::CORNE | Sometimes you get the Elevator, sometimes the Shaft | Wed Jun 26 1991 15:33 | 9 |
| > Just a thought - does this mean that the Car Fleet department will have
> nothing to do for six months?
> Jeff.
Nope - they will be too busy taking the flak ;-)
Jc
|
1463.67 | | HAMPS::JORDAN | Chris Jordan, Digital Services - Office Consultant, London | Wed Jun 26 1991 15:35 | 4 |
1463.68 | Re .64 | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | RS with the RS | Wed Jun 26 1991 15:42 | 21 |
| > So, anyone out there whinging about there car having done 50,000
> miles and now they have to keep it for another six months and shouldn't
> they get a rebate, etc, etc, is not getting much sympathy from me.
JK I don't think anyone is looking to you for sympathy, however there
are some issues here.
When I ordered my car I specified an annual mileage of 24k miles a year
and was given a 30 month lease. I was told if I put 25k miles the lease
would be shortened to 24 months (I wish I did now!).
This doesn't stack with 50k the figure as 24k x 2.5 = 60k.
Has anyone got recent experience of contacting fleet as their car
reached 50k long before the lease was up ? What was the result ? Did
they suggest you takeover another car or order early ?
With the 6 month extension and no mileage limit, there sure is gonna be
a lot of high mileage lease cars out there.
- Roy.
|
1463.69 | No worries if you treat them respectfully | COMICS::HWILLIAMS | | Wed Jun 26 1991 16:44 | 8 |
| What's the problem??
Most cars these days will happily top 100K miles with no trouble.
I've been in auctions where 3 year old company cars with 150K miles
on the clock were sold.
Huw.
|
1463.70 | Only business high miles... | HEWIE::RUSSELL | Hari Krishna, Hari Ramsden, Hari Hari | Wed Jun 26 1991 17:28 | 19 |
| re .64;
the mail explicitly talks about "All new leases will run for 36 months
except for some high business mileage users where a shorter lease may
be appropriate."
If you do a high private mileage, then the servicing garage is gonna
love you for the business you'll put their way over three years....
not to mention the tyres, exhausts, etc.
but it isn't going to do much for the lease, as maintenance and depreciation
will be horrific.
re a couple back; almost anything will sell at an auction, at a price.
And of course, high mileage vehicles are never clocked, are they????
Peter.
|
1463.71 | Turbi or not Turbi? | ARRODS::SYSTEM | | Wed Jun 26 1991 17:33 | 14 |
|
I think this depends on the type of car you have, if you own a turbo
or a highly tuned car, by 100k miles melt down would have occured!!
And if you have a normal middle of road car eg, cavalier, escort,
then you should be pleased about the new scheme guidelines ie,
'It will be beneficial to select a vehicle from the company's extensive
list of cars which will be on a fixed price basis. The list, which
will be available in September, will include the most popular and
and competively priced vehicles'
This obviously means cavaliers,escorts etc !
Stewart.
|
1463.72 | | RUTILE::GUEST | Someone | Thu Jun 27 1991 11:25 | 11 |
|
re .71
> And if you have a normal middle of road car eg, cavalier, escort,
I think you've chosen the wrong place to talk to people who like
that sort of thing, and who will sympathise with people who like the
same :-)
Nigel
|
1463.73 | Choice remains a key element | CHEFS::OSBORNEC | | Thu Jun 27 1991 12:35 | 68 |
|
I'm afraid the lease scheme has a chequered history recently.
Like many, I chose a reasonable motorcar & contributed heavily towards
it. This choice was based on the offer given to me at the start of the
lease that I could buy the car at the end of 30 months. (As an aside, I
was not told by the recruiting manager when I joined that I could just
take the cash -- sad, as that is what I would have done, & nipped down
to Blackbushe & bought a 2 year-old XJS for less than my company wagon
cost).
As 30 months got near, the offer to buy was unilateraly removed across
the company. Attempts to regain the contract terms I had been offered
on joining the company were dismissed out of hand....
Later, the purchase capability was reinstated. By then, my car was way
the other side of 50k/30 months so I've continued to run it. Car Fleet
are now asking why I haven't changed it, as it is 3yrs 5 months old,
with 68k miles.
Two reasons --
a. I'm due to vanish into deepest Europe, but negotiations have been
on-going for six months now. Not sensible to incur extra cost for
new car in UK if I promptly vanish overseas.
b. Difficult to justify expense of changing, when I have a reliable &
quick motorcar for business use.
I'll be quite happy to revert to the cash option -- I've got a
fully-equipped garage with welding gear, lathes etc so I'm relaxed with
doing the maintenance. Insurance can be a bore, but if you're careful
in choosing your source, even Group 9 is a non-problem (eg Jaguar
Owners Club -- helps if you have a Jag, & are a wrinkly!).
I can't see one car introduced in the last 12 months that excites me
much more than a suitable secondhand year-old car depreciated at auction
to half (or less) of its current list price. My Mazda 626GT will get
about #3k at auction on a good day for the seller (old, largish, above
average mileage, hard used, non-fashionable -- although that may change
since Sunday!). It's a snip ..... & cheaper to buy at auction than to
buy it direct from the company.
Don't forget that the #19250 / 2 litre tax excitements vanish when you
buy your own -- especially important as these are precisely the cars
that take the biggest depreciation hit in the first few months of their
life, & become affordable very quickly.
Horses (or horse-power) for courses. Plenty of staff want the
reassurance of full motoring protection, & are willing to pay heavily
for it. Others are able to provide self-cover in a variety of different
ways. Certainly don't fancy the prospect of boring tin, or over-priced
non-standard options --- may not come to that, because we don't know all
the details, but remains a risk.
You wait till you see my customers winding themselves into a Mini-Marcos
... at least they'll have something to remember. I'll think more than
twice about taking it on the regular Valbonne & back that I do now with
the Mazda.............
The timing of the announcement is good -- think of all those low-mileage
ex-fleet cars due to be changed within the next few weeks as August
looms ..........
|
1463.74 | CH
CHANGES TO CAR LEASE SCHEME
| JUMBLY::JSMITH | | Fri Jun 28 1991 17:52 | 36 |
1463.75 | Now you see it, now you don't !! | WARNUT::SMITHC | one careful owner, low mileage !! | Mon Jul 22 1991 16:28 | 11 |
| Last week (Thurs/Friday), they started putting quotes back onto the
lease scheme. It was apparent that the value of the 'base supplement'
had gone down marginally. (I guess 'cause the lease lenght had gone up,
sounds reasonably sensible).
However, today, all the quotes have disappeared from the system again.
These gremlins in the works have a lot to answer for. Not that I'm too
fussed, I'm sure the new quotes would only demonstrate that my car will
have become much cheaper !!
Colin
|
1463.76 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | AKA Wry Shyly | Tue Jul 30 1991 18:15 | 21 |
| re .-1 >> all the quotes have disappeared
Apparently vtx will no longer be used for lease quotes :-(
Whereas previously you were are allowed only two quotes, now you can
submit more than this (suggested number is 4).
Presumably this will save money with admin on vtx. However, I thought
it cost digital an admin charge each time a quote was submitted.
If this is the case it will be impossible apart from hearsay to get an
idea of lease costs for various models.
Can I suggest a note is started to post your quotes so everyone can see
how the costs are going.
Maybe the quotes will be displayed somewhere else, if not it seems a
waste as only the person submitting the quote would be able to order
from it, as noone else would have visability.
- Roy
|
1463.77 | Where did you hear this? | HEWIE::RUSSELL | Hari Krishna, Hari Ramsden, Hari Hari | Tue Jul 30 1991 18:49 | 7 |
| re .76;
where did you hear VTX wasn;t going to be used?
Or is Radio 210 now the official line of communication........
Peter.
|
1463.78 | Maybe just maybe | VOGON::MORGAN | J.F.D.I. | Tue Jul 30 1991 18:54 | 22 |
|
> Whereas previously you were are allowed only two quotes, now you can
> submit more than this (suggested number is 4).
> Presumably this will save money with admin on vtx. However, I thought
> it cost digital an admin charge each time a quote was submitted.
> If this is the case it will be impossible apart from hearsay to get an
> idea of lease costs for various models.
> Maybe the quotes will be displayed somewhere else, if not it seems a
> waste as only the person submitting the quote would be able to order
> from it, as noone else would have visability.
So maybe there is an element of personal liability here ? i.e. for
a go faster thingy wotsit the quote for a 22 year old with a number
of accidents might be substantially more than the quote for the same
car for a 'safe' 35 year old. If so, I applaud.
Rich
- Roy
|
1463.79 | Not a wiser man, just an older fool. | NEWOA::SAXBY | | Tue Jul 30 1991 19:04 | 7 |
| And hopefully a 35 year old with a series of speeding, accident and
drink/drive incidents behind them would be similarly handicapped
compared with a blemish free licence holding 22 year old?
Yeah, some hopes...
Mark
|
1463.80 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | AKA Wry Shyly | Tue Jul 30 1991 19:30 | 6 |
1463.81 | | COMICS::FISCHER | Ian Fischer - UK Graphics Support | Wed Jul 31 1991 15:29 | 12 |
| > So maybe there is an element of personal liability here ? i.e. for
> a go faster thingy wotsit the quote for a 22 year old with a number
> of accidents might be substantially more than the quote for the same
> car for a 'safe' 35 year old. If so, I applaud.
I didn't think it was going to work like that. The insurance that is transferred
onto the driver price will be a fixed amount depending on the insurance
group of the car, irrespective of the driver's driving history or age.
ian
|
1463.82 | | IEDUX::jon | | Wed Jul 31 1991 16:54 | 23 |
| I agree with Ian in .81 that the impression that has so far been given
is that the extra charge for high insurance group cars will be
regardless of the driver involved. As I fit pretty closely with the
"22 year old with a number of accidents," which Rich mentioned (I'm
just a year older), I'm glad of that!
There doesn't appear then, to be any reason for removing the quotes
from VTX. If, however, there will be some varience of price depending
on driver's circumstances, this must be calculated by Fleet as an
adjustment to the cheaper of the quotes from PHH and Hertz, so there is
still nothing to stop them from displaying the 'raw' quotes on VTX.
If the quotes are removed from VTX, it will vastly increase Fleet's
workload as people will have to individually submit quotes for every
model they are interested in instead of being able to narrow it down
from other people's quotes. It will also increase the average cost of
employee's cars as we won't be able to jump on the bandwagon of a
relatively cheap quote which someone else has received.
I hope this turns out to be a misunderstanding.
Jon
|
1463.83 | Fleet is the most popular VTX option! | BRUMMY::BELL | Martin Bell, TCC, Birmingham UK | Thu Aug 01 1991 12:25 | 9 |
| I too hope that quotes will still appear on VTX.
We go around bragging how our quotes are handled electronically with
EDI etc, so it costs next to nothing to extract the data and format it
for VTX - the code MUST be already written!
Sounds VERY suspicious to me,
mb
|
1463.84 | | COMICS::FISCHER | Ian Fischer - UK Graphics Support | Thu Aug 01 1991 17:00 | 10 |
| The original statement about the lease scheme changes referred
to a fixed price list of cars (probably meaning Fords, Vauxhalls)
and that this would be available in September. Maybe, this will
go onto VTX and any car not quoted on that list will require a
quote to be submitted.
Just a thought!
ian
|
1463.85 | More work For Fleet | YUPPY::RAVEN | | Thu Aug 01 1991 17:04 | 15 |
| Removing quotes from VTX will take away the Control element in finding
a quote for a car .
E.G. 1) The "ABC GTI 16V" car looks nice and the price in What
Car Show quotes X pounds on the road.
2) Check simular spec. quote in VTX ....
3) Decide that X per year is too much to pay.
4) Go to step 1
This will create more work for car fleet in producing simular quotes
over and over again .
|
1463.86 | Shame... | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | AKA Wry Shyly | Thu Aug 01 1991 17:06 | 11 |
| Re .84
I agree Ian that crossed my mind as well, but what is the harm or the
problem with including the other quotes.
I wonder if its for a 'political reason' or just the fact that its an
admin overhead to enter new quotes and remove old ones in vtx.
Its a shame this isn't communicated to us all.
- Roy
|
1463.87 | from bad to worse ...? | BRUMMY::BELL | Martin Bell, TCC, Birmingham UK | Thu Aug 01 1991 17:36 | 15 |
| Re: .86
> admin overhead to enter new quotes and remove old ones in vtx.
There _should_ be NO admin overhead. The new quotes were generated
between 21:00 and 22:00 each evening, presumably by some fancy program.
If they have to be done by hand, then perhaps we should first consider
automating Fleet as a cost-saving measure!
I just has to be politics, to try to discourage people from choosing
exotic (i.e. non-standard) cars.
Perhaps fleet could put an entry in VTX telling us what is happening?
mb
|
1463.88 | There here....... | SUBURB::ALLYS | Reality... No Digital !! | Wed Aug 07 1991 13:00 | 6 |
|
There are some quotes (4/5) on the VTX system, not too sure how they
compare though, I wonder if this means we are back in business.
Shaz
|
1463.89 | now you see 'em, now you don't, now you see 'm again | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | AKA Wry Shyly | Thu Aug 08 1991 15:27 | 6 |
| I've been informed by personnel (human resources if you prefer), that a
decision has been made to put quotes back on vtx.
This is good news, but I wonder what the reason was for taking them off ?
- Roy
|
1463.90 | Trying to second guess the system... | HEWIE::RUSSELL | Hari Krishna, Hari Ramsden, Hari Hari | Thu Aug 08 1991 15:50 | 14 |
1463.91 | Is VTX fleeting?! | UBOHUB::CURRIE_I | | Fri Aug 09 1991 14:51 | 11 |
| Having just a few minutes ago sent a mail to Fleet asking what was
happening about quotes on VTX, I now discover this subject is being
aired in Notes! (I even raised this subject as a reply to Note
1525...)
With regard to .89, is the decision to put quotes back on VTX
permanent, or is it a temporary measure until the 'basket of quotes' is
available?
Ian
|
1463.92 | Standard/Non Standard Cars | UBOHUB::CURRIE_I | | Fri Aug 09 1991 14:58 | 16 |
| At the risk of asking a question which might have been aired elsewhere,
can anyone tell me the rationale for cars in the standard 'basket of
quotes' being cheaper than those ordered through non-standard quote?
Surely it can't be anything to do with bulk purchase discounts, as PHH
and Hertz must already buy so many cars from the major manufacturers
that they get the maximum discount available.
It will be interesting to see what the policy will be regarding having
garage-fitted extras (e.g. mud flaps; sun-roof deflectors; roof rack
bars...etc) added to the 'standard' cars. Will this then make them
'non-standard' and hence subject to whatever loading is applied to cars
that are completely non-standard? Or will the cost of the extras
simply be added to the standard cost and spread over the lease period?
Ian
|
1463.93 | Oops! | UBOHUB::CURRIE_I | | Fri Aug 09 1991 15:13 | 7 |
| Ref .90, ignore my mention of Note 1525, it should have read Note 483
in the MARVIN::UK_DIGITAL conference!
I'll go away now...
Ian
|
1463.94 | I don't believe this!!! | UBOHUB::CURRIE_I | | Fri Aug 09 1991 15:30 | 13 |
| I have just received the reply to the message to Fleet that I mentioned
in .91. It is from Robert Allen, and I quote:
'There shouldn't be any quotes advertised on VTX until September. I
will request a call be logged to get then removed.'
Am I confused? Is Car Fleet confused?
Ian
PS In my correction in .93, I should have referred back to .91, not
.90. I'm definitely confused!
|
1463.95 | | COMICS::FISCHER | Ian Fischer - UK Graphics Support | Fri Aug 09 1991 16:42 | 9 |
1463.96 | | BAHTAT::FORCE4::greg | How's it going royal ugly dudes? | Fri Aug 09 1991 18:06 | 4 |
| Friends company have a standard list, then YOU pay one fixed price for
the extra ie 800 for metallic paint etc.
Greg
|
1463.97 | Neat idea.. | VOGON::MORGAN | J.F.D.I. | Fri Aug 09 1991 18:12 | 7 |
| Wouldn't that be a neat idea ?
x pounds for car, y for abs, z for metallic etc. etc - sort of like
shopping at Sainsburys !!
Rich
|
1463.98 | | BAHTAT::FORCE4::greg | How's it going royal ugly dudes? | Fri Aug 09 1991 19:42 | 7 |
| > sort of like shopping at Sainsburys !!
Yep!
An expensive way of getting something
:^))
|
1463.99 | Two pound of mettalic, and a pint of sunroof. | TIMMII::RDAVIES | An amateur expert | Mon Aug 12 1991 16:39 | 4 |
| Doesn't this mean individual pricing, the opposite of what they're
trying to do??.
Richard
|
1463.100 | List of lease cars ? | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | On the bank of brinkruptcy | Tue Sep 03 1991 14:15 | 8 |
| OK, its September. Where is the "extensive list" of fixed price cars
available on the lease scheme ?
I've checked vtx but the "recent quotes" section is still empty :-(
I assume this list will be posted in vtx, anyone know different ?
- Roy
|
1463.101 | | COMICS::FISCHER | Ian Fischer - UK Graphics Support | Tue Sep 03 1991 16:30 | 6 |
| They didn't tell us when in September.
Ian
|
1463.102 | I like it.... another cynic! | LARVAE::CLEMENTS_D | | Tue Sep 03 1991 20:59 | 1 |
|
|
1463.103 | | FORTY2::PALKA | | Wed Sep 04 1991 12:30 | 4 |
| re .100
I asked car fleet. It will be near the end of september.
Andrew
|
1463.104 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | On the bank of brinkruptcy | Wed Sep 04 1991 13:23 | 9 |
| Thanks Andrew, any idea how cars will be listed ?
When I first heard about this I imagined he list would only
contain "popular" cars like cavaliers, sierras, escorts etc.
but its now rumoured to contain 200 cars !
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
- Roy
|
1463.105 | Foxhall | DOOZER::JENKINS | seriously 'ken shabby | Wed Sep 04 1991 14:31 | 2 |
| 200 may not be that many... Ford and Vauxhall make nearly 200
model variants between them...
|
1463.106 | | COMICS::FISCHER | I'm not from Bushey | Wed Sep 04 1991 15:32 | 6 |
| You beat me to it. A list of 200 could include Cavalier L
cavalier GL, Cavalier GLS, etc, etc and then of course
there's extras on some models like Cavalier L with ABS,
with power steering, with ABS and power steering.
Ian
|
1463.107 | Bits of Info | WARNUT::BIDDULPHM | | Wed Sep 04 1991 15:35 | 22 |
| A "new starter" with Digital who happens to be sitting near me has been
speaking to Fleet. He has managed to get the following info:
1. New scheme will be launched at end of September.
2. Will be on VTX
3. With contain two lists:
a) Popular cars
b) Popular extras
Both lists will have prices against them and you can mix and
mach cars with extras.
Hopefully this answers one of my queries; i.e. would I have to get a
personal quote if I required ABS on a car in the bucket? Seems
probably not.
Regards,
Mike B.
|
1463.108 | Comparison | COMICS::HWILLIAMS | | Wed Sep 04 1991 15:46 | 11 |
| I've got a friend who works for data general. and they get to chose
their cars off a standard list.
All the model variants are listed like Astra L, SXi, GTE etc...
it also lists the lease cost and the amount of money they have to fork out
if they want a flashier car.
I'm not sure what happens with 'options' though, but it sounds a good
idea to me.
Huw.
|
1463.109 | Lots and Lots of fords | VOGON::MORGAN | J.F.D.I. | Wed Sep 04 1991 16:44 | 11 |
|
Re. 105.
I'm told that if you take all the model variants in the standard Ford
catalogue, mix and match with all the different options available for
those models you come up with in excess of 1,000,000 'different' cars.
Not many people know that - there again not many people want to !!
Rich
|
1463.110 | ...and then some! | VOGON::KAPPLER | but I manage ... | Wed Sep 04 1991 16:49 | 6 |
| Well I was told there were more variant combinations in the Ford range
than cars made by Ford each year.........
Then why did mine look the same as lots of others (-:?
JK
|
1463.112 | Adhoc lease quotes... | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | On the bank of brinkruptcy | Thu Sep 05 1991 18:14 | 12 |
| Thanks Nigel for posting your quotes.
I understand that once the "list" is in vtx that adhoc quotes for cars
not listed will not appear anywhere.
Could a new note be started where we could post any individual quotes
for all to see. Its always interesting to see how much the lease costs
work out on various cars.
Perhaps some kind mod could post the previous note there as a starter ?
- Roy
|
1463.113 | moderator action | TIMMII::RDAVIES | An amateur expert | Thu Sep 05 1991 18:34 | 3 |
| 1463.112 now refers to note 1538. Quotes 1991 scheme.
Richard
|
1463.114 | Fixed price list out of date | BAHTAT::HILTON | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Tue Mar 24 1992 13:43 | 9 |
| With the new fixed price list on VTX, is this meant to be reviewed
annually. If so, when will it get reviewed and take the budget etc into
account.
A friend in the office was thinking of getting a BMW 318, and was told
by someone in Fleet to submit a quote because it would be cheaper then
the fixed price list on VTX.
Greg
|
1463.115 | | KERNEL::LOAT | Bored....Bored....BORED!!!! | Tue Mar 24 1992 16:17 | 7 |
|
With all the price changes/model changes/specification changes, it
seems like the list is out of date almost as soon as it's published! So
much for saving money!
Steve.
|
1463.116 | No pre July quoting | BAHTAT::HILTON | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Fri May 22 1992 19:27 | 10 |
| Well I can't remember if the discussions about getting quotes in before
July were in this note or not.
However a guy in our office, whose car is due for renewal in September has
just had his quotes bounced!
Cheers,
Greg
|
1463.117 | Premature Quotations | YUPPY::PATEMAN | Life's a One Take Movie | Fri May 22 1992 20:10 | 5 |
| The rules state that you can only ask for quotes 3 months prior to the
renewal date, if his is September then that makes June for quotes.
Looks like he jumped the gun.
Paul
|
1463.118 | | LEECHS::hilton | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Fri May 22 1992 20:14 | 10 |
| > Looks like he jumped the gun
Exactly. Because car prices have dropped quotes are coming in very
cheaply now. I'mm 99.9% sure that come the 1st July the car supplement
will be reduced. This is because the base price on which they calculate
the supplement has been reduced.
It will be interesting to see if quotes before/after Jult vary by much.
Greg
|
1463.119 | | KERNEL::FISCHERI | Tonight I fancy myself | Wed May 27 1992 12:38 | 8 |
| Three months isn't very long. Seeing as it can take two or three weeks to
get a quote back and you can only put in two at a time, it could take 4-6
weeks to find a quote that you want. When I ordered my Rover 214, it took
4 months to arrive. That's 4 months of hiring a car - hardly cutting costs!
Ian
|
1463.120 | What's new? | BAHTAT::HILTON | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Tue Jun 23 1992 15:45 | 9 |
| SO as 1st July approachs, does anyone know :
a. whether the fixed price list will be updated?
b. What the new supplement levels will be?
Cheers,
Greg
|
1463.121 | When Cars take forever to be delivered? | NEEPS::IRVINE | LISTEN DAMN IT, WE WILL WIN | Tue Jun 23 1992 17:49 | 13 |
| Here's is an annoying situation... I am seriously concidering getting a
Frontera Sport when my car is due for renewal, OCT 31. Unfortunately,
having spoken to Vauxhall, there is about a 12 week waiting list at
present, and the factory will close for the month of August. These
means if I order at the end of July/start of Aug. There is not a hope
in hell of me getting my prefered car, within the requote time frame!!
Can anyone in car fleet suggest a way round this ???
I will ofcourse call them in the next day or two to find out, but would
be interested in a public statement...
Bob
|
1463.122 | | LEECHS::hilton | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Tue Jun 23 1992 18:03 | 10 |
| re .121
Well Bob, I was after a new Renault 19, the sales guys in Renault say
order quickly because the 16V will take some time, so I rang car fleet
asking if I can start the system 4 months before my expiration, and
they basically said:NO WAY!
I hope you have better luck!
Greg
|
1463.123 | FY93 lease scheme | LEECHS::hilton | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Mon Jun 29 1992 13:07 | 9 |
| Got this from my boss:
The car supplements will NOT go up in July.
Research shows that the "basket" of cars for each level is
below the existing rate.( I have full details)
A new prefered list will be out soon preceded by a mail to all
car users.
|
1463.124 | ?? | VOGON::MORGAN | Clouds of Anger, Tears of Rain | Mon Jun 29 1992 13:17 | 9 |
|
>>Research shows that the "basket" of cars for each level is
>>below the existing rate.( I have full details)
What does this mean ??
Rich
|
1463.125 | Simple answer... | HEWIE::RUSSELL | HAL -> IBM; VMS -> Windows/NT | Mon Jun 29 1992 13:42 | 7 |
| re .124;
>>What does this mean ??
Simple. Standard answer. No extra money.
Peter.
|
1463.126 | | SUBURB::THOMASH | The Devon Dumpling | Wed Jul 01 1992 14:15 | 7 |
|
It still means that if you take the cash, you are not undercompensated,
but I quote "less overcompensated"
Heather
|
1463.127 | | VANGA::KERRELL | Dave Kerrell @REO 830-2279 | Wed Jul 01 1992 16:14 | 6 |
1463.128 | | SUBURB::THOMASH | The Devon Dumpling | Wed Jul 01 1992 17:08 | 11 |
1463.129 | | BLKPUD::WILLIAMSH | | Wed Jul 01 1992 17:10 | 9 |
1463.130 | | SUBURB::THOMASH | The Devon Dumpling | Wed Jul 01 1992 17:21 | 9 |
1463.131 | Reduced list ?? | VOGON::MORGAN | Clouds of Anger, Tears of Rain | Wed Jul 01 1992 17:24 | 9 |
|
I received a mail this a.m. re: the new 'basket' of cars giving
a range of suggested models for each job level.
Does this imply that the current list on VTX is invalid and that the
new list is simply th list contained in the mail this a.m. ??
R
|
1463.132 | | SUBURB::THOMASH | The Devon Dumpling | Wed Jul 01 1992 17:34 | 11 |
|
> Does this imply that the current list on VTX is invalid and that the
> new list is simply th list contained in the mail this a.m. ??
I ahve highlighted the list on baskets of cars, with the VTX info, and
I asked personnel this morning to clarify.
I will let you know the outcome.
Heather
|
1463.133 | New list almost here | BAHTAT::HILTON | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Wed Jul 01 1992 18:02 | 11 |
| Hot from Car Fleet:
The new list should be out any time now, with a revised format. Cars on
it will be similar.
Apparently the list is at Personnel who are adding the insurance costs
in. They are waiting for the July What Car in order to get these costs
(I've had this mag for a week now, so I guess the list must be almost
ready!)
Greg
|
1463.134 | | VANGA::KERRELL | Dave Kerrell @REO 830-2279 | Wed Jul 01 1992 18:56 | 6 |
| oops got my figures wrong! I don't recognise the 16/17% increase argument, as I
would be paying double the amount *I* choose to pay over the base car. The base
car cost is covered by the company as long as I get a car supplement and choose
to use it towards a lease car.
/Dave.
|
1463.135 | | NEEPS::IRVINE | Nice nose... wanna peanut! | Wed Jul 08 1992 16:13 | 5 |
| any update on when the FY93, Preferred Car list is due... I have heard
numerous rumors that the list is ready, but no one will commit to when
the list will be out, and it is a pain to wait for!
Bob
|
1463.136 | "Any time now" | IOSG::SHOVE | Dave Shove -- REO-D/3C | Thu Jul 09 1992 14:50 | 5 |
| VTX now says that the new list is "imminent".
The old one has gone.
Dave.
|
1463.137 | Do you get confirmation | BAHTAT::HILTON | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Wed Jul 22 1992 13:17 | 8 |
| What's the official lines of communication when you have submitted an
order?
Do you get a mail to say fleet actually received the order, followed by
one with the delivery date?
Greg (who doesn't trust internal mail!)
|
1463.138 | Electronic confirmation | CURRNT::PAYNE_A | Discount Pants'n'Haircuts | Wed Jul 22 1992 13:35 | 4 |
| You get confirmation of the order from Car fleet via ALL-IN-1 and later
an expected delivery date by the same method.
Andy
|
1463.139 | How long? | BAHTAT::HILTON | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Wed Jul 22 1992 17:57 | 4 |
| How long does this confirmation take to arrive after you post your
order?
Greg
|
1463.140 | 2 weeks + 4 weeks | CURRNT::PAYNE_A | Discount Pants'n'Haircuts | Wed Jul 22 1992 18:58 | 4 |
| Mine seemed to appear within 2 weeks of submitting the order. The
delivery date came about a month later.
Andy
|
1463.141 | | SUBURB::THOMASH | The Devon Dumpling | Thu Jul 23 1992 16:21 | 11 |
|
> How long does this confirmation take to arrive after you post your
> order?
Mine took for ever, I changed my name 3 years ago, and they hadn't
quite caught up - and I thought ELF was slow!!!!!!!!
Heather
PS, I have no idea why they couldn't reply to my mail instead, they
looked up my badge number against their database........
|
1463.142 | Flabbergasted | BAHTAT::HILTON | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Fri Jul 31 1992 19:13 | 55 |
| Received this today. I ordered from the preferred list, so who benefits?
I have to now wait for the whole quote process to be completed, what is the
point of this list if all orders are submitted as quotes?
Guess my 10th August delivery is a non starter!
Greg
I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M
Date: 29-Jul-1992 08:51pm BST
From: DFMS_A_L
DFMS_A_L@UKBOPS@MRGATE@SUBURB@REO
Dept:
Tel No:
TO: GREGORY HILTON@LZO
Subject: Quotation Acknowledgment
INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM
----------------------
To : HILTON, GREGORY Date : 29 JUL 92
Loc : LZO5 From : G & A Purchasing
Loc. : REO F3
Subject: Your Quotation :- RENAULT 19 16V 4DR SALOON
Lease term : 30 months / 60,000 miles
Quote number : 012385 Date requested : 29 JUL 92
Extras : As requested.
We have received your quotation request which has been sent to the leasing
companies for action.
You will be advised in due course of the driver price for the requested vehicle.
If you have placed an order against one of the basket quotes on the Preferred
Car list please ignore this memorandum. In order to determine which leasing
company will give the most competitive lease costs to Digital we must firstly
go through the quotation process. This does not affect the driver cost you have
already obtained from VTX.
As soon as your order is placed an order acknowledgement memorandum will be
sent to your ALL-IN-1 account.
Kind regards
Purchasing (Fleet)
|
1463.143 | Here we go again | CHEFS::OSBORNEC | | Fri Jul 31 1992 20:26 | 18 |
|
Long story in the Evening Standard yestday which picked up on the
likely tax rates for next year.
Summary was that if you buy in :-
10-12k range, unlikely to be much different.
15k-18k , likely to be + 40%
22k-28k , likely to be minus 30 %
over 35k , up 35%
Sounds as though most Deccies in the mid-range might well be better off
with the money ...
Colin
|
1463.144 | | IEDUX::jon | | Fri Jul 31 1992 20:44 | 4 |
| Did the Standard story say if the low mileage 50% surcharge is still
going to be the same?
Jon
|
1463.145 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | Diet free Caffeine Coke | Fri Jul 31 1992 21:22 | 16 |
1463.146 | | LARVAE::JORDAN | Chris Jordan, TSE - Technology Services, End-User Computing | Wed Aug 05 1992 18:08 | 9 |
1463.147 | | COMICS::WEGG | Working towards a better tomato | Wed Aug 05 1992 18:37 | 8 |
| It goes on to say:
"This does not affect the driver cost you have already obtained from VTX."
In other words, ignore the memo because whatever the lowest quote is
you pay the price from the preferred list.
Ian.
|
1463.148 | | BAHTAT::HILTON | Beer...now there's a temporary solution | Thu Aug 06 1992 13:25 | 6 |
| The important point is that YOU order from a fixed price, then FLEET
obtain a quote anyhow. Presumably if it's cheaper FLEEET win, if it's
more expensive you win. Either way it induces a delay into the ordering
from the prefferred list.
Greg
|
1463.149 | | COMICS::WEGG | Working towards a better tomato | Fri Aug 07 1992 12:54 | 10 |
| Apparantly there is a report out today from 'Incomes Data
Services' called something like "Company Car or Cash".
It says that the concept of the company car as a benefit will
disappear completely when the new taxing bands are implemented in
1994. According to the item on TV-am this morning, a number of
companies (e.g. Barclays Bank, several stock dealing firms, T.S.B.)
are already phasing out cars as a perk.
Ian.
|
1463.150 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | | Fri Mar 26 1993 18:59 | 4 |
| Any comments on the 'leaked' truth that we are all going to lose our
company cars as discussed in note 709.62 in UK_DIGITAL.
Royston
|
1463.152 | | UPROAR::EVANSG | Gwyn Evans @ IME - Open DECtrade -> DTN 769-8108 | Fri Mar 26 1993 19:46 | 8 |
| Re: .151
Those of us over here at IME aren't in the standard Digital
UK car scheme either.
The management have admitted that the scheme that we do have isn't
as good as the standard scheme (only option allowed is Auto/Manual
gearbox, no paying more for better car) and are 'reviewing the scheme'
but this review was started at least 18 mths ago and isn't expected to
complete within the next few months.
|
1463.153 | Manufacturing has always beein different.. | HEWIE::RUSSELL | The car behind is an ATOYOT... | Mon Mar 29 1993 12:30 | 8 |
| re .151; It's always been like that, 'cos manufacturing (or Digital Equipment
(Scotland) Ltd) has always had different rules and conditions to the
rest of Digital (UK).
Don't ask me why, but manufacturing has always "gone it's own way" on
several things.
Peter.
|
1463.154 | | WIZZER::FISCHER | I can always sleep standing up | Mon Mar 29 1993 12:41 | 9 |
| If the rumour is true, then how on earth are people who
need a car to do their job going to manage.
I can see some sweeping changes coming in soon and could
guess at a few ways of saving money, but I doubt very
much that Digital would abolish the scheme completely.
Ian
|
1463.155 | I would doubt it too | IOSG::SHOVE | Dave Shove -- REO2-G/M6 | Mon Mar 29 1993 14:36 | 14 |
| I would guess that it's the "car as a perk" sde of the scheme that
they're considering abolishing. There really isn't much excuse for
keeping it, now the tax advantages that used to exist (a few years ago)
have largely been removed. And it almost certainly isn;t worth the
hassle (witness the thousands of notes in here and elsewhere
complaining about it!) I would hope that it would be replaced by a
salary allowance.
For those that really do need a car for their work, the scheme ought to
continue (although one could see that they might want to simplify it -
perhaps reduce the choice? When I first worked for Digital, in a job
for which one needed a car, the choice was a Hunter or an Avenger!)
D.
|
1463.156 | Awaiting loads of flak ! | NEWOA::FIDO_T | Ain't it great ! | Mon Mar 29 1993 14:37 | 23 |
| At the risk of making myself very unpopular :-
The fairest company car scheme I have ever seen was one where no-one
had a company car nor used their own cars for business. The company
provided a number of pool cars which were available for ratified
company business. If none were available, the company hired another
car.
The results of the above are :-
1. No employees get taxed for the perceived benefit of having a company
car.
2. No employees are able to make loads of money by using their own car
and getting paid a mileage allowance.
3. The company is able to minimise costs by having a fleet of identical
cars, enabling them to negotiate better deals with car dealerships,
servicing etc.
Terry
|
1463.157 | Any Excel people? | SAC::EDMUNDS | Use the subjunctive! | Mon Mar 29 1993 14:43 | 9 |
| I've put together an Excel spreadsheet which analyses the cost of
ownership of a company car versus a private car. I intend to make this
available to all, but at the moment I'd like someone who a) knows the
car scheme and tax situation and b) is at least familiar with Excel to
look over my spreadsheet and sanity-check it.
Any takers? Please drop me mail if you think you could help.
Keith
|
1463.158 | | SUBURB::THOMASH | The Devon Dumpling | Mon Mar 29 1993 15:03 | 18 |
|
> 2. No employees are able to make loads of money by using their own car
> and getting paid a mileage allowance.
I use my own car, I get 8p a mile............I wish it covered the
petrol.
> 3. The company is able to minimise costs by having a fleet of identical
> cars, enabling them to negotiate better deals with car dealerships,
> servicing etc.
We already do this, by having "baslkets" of cars, those who get one
outside of the basket, pay their own, and don't benefit from the
deal.
Heather
|
1463.159 | Fair as it stands | WELCLU::YOUNG | Policemen aren't nasty people | Mon Mar 29 1993 17:13 | 28 |
|
I would be quite happy to use a pool car and not pay income tax on
the "perk" in theory, but I am home based and fifty miles and 1 1/2 hrs
drive away, so would I:
1) Be expected to make my own way to the office everyday to pick up a
pool car and go back to essex ready to accept calls, this would use 3
hours of my time and 3 hours of company time plus about 200 miles
between us, this sounds awfully inefficient as it would cut my
effective working day to 4.5 hours and who would respond to the calls I
normally deal with in the other 3 hours?
2)The alternative is to give me a pool car that I take home and keep
there but I must not use for personal use. Thereby the only change
would be that I have no choice of vehicle (and therefore no pride in
it, which would be reflected in the appearance of the vehicle and thus
affect the company image presented to our customers). Plus I could not
be expected to clean it at my own expense or in my own time or take it
in for service in my time as I do currently. Or pay for parking (I live
in a town centre and often end up having to pay and display in the
evenings and at weekends)
Basically neither of these options is a viable business proposition, I
think things should be left alone. I do over 18,000 miles and feel that
the tax is reasonable (and much fairer now its based on price rather
than engine size) I think the people who are most hit by this tax is
people who don't do any/many business miles and drive big flash
expensive cars, .........just the people a "perk" tax should hit!
|
1463.160 | Just some thoughts | NEWOA::FIDO_T | Ain't it great ! | Mon Mar 29 1993 18:39 | 25 |
| Some thoughts re .159
1. The 3 hours of your time used isn't really an issue, as no one
should get paid for travelling to and from work. Where you choose to
live and its distance from your work place are personal choices, which
have a downside ( cost and time ) and an upside ( presumably a nice
location ).
2. Will you be able to prove to the taxman that you never use the car
for personal use if it stays overnight at your home address ?
3. I would have thought that a fleet of identical cars would present
much more of a company image than the current hotch-potch to be seen in
the car park at present.
4. I don't really see why you should have any less pride in a company
car just because it isn't your favourite fuel-injection turbo 4WD GTi
with ABS etc.
5. I agree that you should not be expected to pay for its cleaning or
servicing, but is this not the case at the moment anyway ?
Just some thoughts
Terry
|
1463.161 | You pay tax if you take it home... | HEWIE::RUSSELL | The car behind is an ATOYOT... | Mon Mar 29 1993 19:54 | 18 |
| re the last few;
the only way to avoid tax is to use your own car to get to work, and then
pick up the pool car.
There was a case a couple of years ago of some fire officer who was on 24
hour call, and was provided with a nice estate car that had blue lights,
lots of gear, and so on. He had to pay the full car tax on the benefit
of having a company supplied vehicle, even though you couldn't pop
down to the shops for a loaf of bread in it, never mind take the family
out in it.
If the tax man and Digital want to, I'd be happy to come into the office and
pick up a pool car at 9:00 am, and return it at 5:30 pm to go home.
Mind you, there are days when this means I'd be on the customer site for
about two hours, which would include a lunch hour. Not very cost effective!
Peter.
|
1463.162 | Spreadsheet | SAC::EDMUNDS | Use the subjunctive! | Mon Mar 29 1993 21:42 | 14 |
| OK, V1 of the car spreadsheet can be copied from
sac::disk$user22:[edmunds.public]car.xls
Please read the notes below the "main" part of the spreadsheet. Ignore
anything to the right of the main spreadsheet.
This is offered in good faith; however, there may be mistakes on it.
Any career decision based on this spreadsheet is your own!! Any bugs /
comments / feedback are welcome, and I'll try to correct problems.
My thanks to Richard Davies for giving it the once-over sanity check.
Keith
|
1463.163 | Waste of time | WELCLU::YOUNG | Policemen aren't nasty people | Tue Mar 30 1993 03:45 | 20 |
|
Re: .160
The point I was trying to make is that I am a Field Service engineer
working on customer sites 95% of the time and I live in the area I
cover which is not even in the same county as the office I am
controlled from which means that travelling from home to site is
shorter and quicker than from the office in most instances, which means
that I live in a convenient location for my job even if it is not
convenient for access to the office, I have a dialup modem at home for
computer access, a telephone and royal mail, the result is that I spend
about half a day a month in the office on average, and my company car
doesn't spend all day parked in the office car park. This is the most
efficient way for my job to be done and it would serve no purpose
whatsoever other than wasting mine and company time for me to go to the
office everday.
Richard
P.s I drive a Citroen Bx 19TGD (diesel)
|