Conference terri::cars_uk

    Hi,
    
    I served my motor mechanic apprecticeship with a Nissan dealer. We
    ALWAYS put high quality engine oil in the gear boxes of Nissans. I never 
    remember any car coming back with problems.
    
    There are many schools of thought on this one, the DIFF should ALWAYS
    be filled with hypoid gear oil, but in my experiences the gearbox will
    not suffer, using good quality engine oil.
    
    Duckhams QTR is expensive oil, I have been using this oil for about four
    years now, both in the engine of my Audi and in the engine/box of my 
    other car(s).......no problems.
    
    

    
    Re Ratios
    
    No.
    
    Mark :^)

What does "hypoid" mean?

BTW, Is the "Slick" gearbox treatment any good?

    Re. Oil for gearboxes.
    
    I have read many reports of the gearboxes on rally cars being
    filled with ATF, since it is of a lower viscosity, but supposedly
    doesn't break down too easily (should hope not when you think what
    it has to do in an autobox).
    
    No idea about transaxles, I take it that the diff is not enclosed
    in a separate casing from the 'gearbox' itself, so they will have
    to share the same oil.  Mini's share the engine oil too, don't they ?
    
    J.R.

    Does any one know how an overdrive unit works?
    
    I have overdrive on my Triumph Dolomite, it works via a switch on the
    gear knob on 3rd and 4th gear. However when I engage the overdrive unit
    the transmission joilts slightly; is this part-and-parcel of overdrive 
    or should it engage smoothly?
    
    
    Graham

Graham,

	Is that the same unit as used on the Sprint, as I have a manual
specifically about those in my car, which is in DP 2 car park. If you want to
have a look at it, I am at DP2 GE2.


		 Alan

 P.S.  DTN 4662.

Overdrive units mostly work like automatic gearboxes, except they have only one
gear!  You get the jolt as the unit engages and the engine speed no longer is
in sync with the propshaft.  Try depressing the clutch as you engage/disengage,
just as you would a normal gear change.

    The Triumph Dolomite was fitted with the Laycock DeNormanville (sp?) J
    type from memory.  It does not require the clutch to be dipped as this
    will take the power off.  The unit is hydraulically engaged by a pump
    on the input shaft.
    
    Any jolt during engagement is unacceptable.  If it has covered a high
    mileage then there could be a number of possible faults.  Start by
    changing the oil and cleaning the filter.  It's a mesh filter that
    lives behind the big brass plug on the bottom of the casing.  You
    should use a C spanner but if you are careful a pair of stillsons will
    do it.  It's worth fitting a new joint washer when refitting the plug.
    
    There has always been a lot of debate on what oil to use in the
    overdrive.  One school of thought says that EP oils shouldn't be used
    as the extreme pressure (EP) particles will attach themselves to the
    hot parts of the "clutch" and impede its ability to grip.  I use
    "straight" SAE50 in my overdrive 'box (Castrol TT) and it's now done
    127,000 including sprints and hillclimbs!
    
    Also check the clearance at the operating lever.  The manual will
    describe how to do this using a drill - from memory it was a 5/16.  It
    is important to get this right.
    
    The overdrive should engage/disengage smoothly and almost
    instantaneously with the throttle open.  Disengagement on a trailing
    throttle there will be a pause of about 2-5 seconds.
    
    Overdrive rebuilds are definitely not for the amatuer mechanic.  I did
    my F type on the Triumph TR3 many years ago assisted by a gearbox
    expert.  He had all the tools that made life easy but it was not a job
    I would want to do again.  You need to be scrupulously clean as any
    piece of muck will either clog a gallery or stop the spring loaded ball
    valves from seating properly.
    
    After that I tackled an auto box .....but that's another story!
        

    Regardless of which oil is used, it is a known fact that British
    Gearboxes don't leak oil....
    
    They sweat.
    
    

    I was reading one of those 'How to buy a car' mags the other day, when
    I spotted this 'gearbox test':
    
    With the engine idling in neutral, depress the clutch and listen.  Then
    bring the clutch up again and listen again.  Gearbox bearing noise will
    be easy to hear.
    
    Now.  I've noticed this on my Escort <cough> 1.3.  Is it serious?, 
    costly?, or something I can forget about (for now anyway).  
    The gearbox seems fine otherwise!  Any comments??
    
    Thanks, ...Craig
    
                    

    Re .15
    Noise with clutch pedal out = Gearbox wear.
    				Action to take - turn the stereo up *LOUD*
    				But first make sure there's oil in the box.
    
    Noise with clutch pedal in  = Clutch thrust bearing.
    				Shouldn't happen because you changed it when
    				you did the clutch didn't you :-)
    				Probably last for a while, but the clutch
    				is likely on it's last legs as well !!
    
    
    Stevie.  (Who's never had to change a clutch on an Es'ie)

    RE -1
    
    I get the picture, time I fitted those new speakers!
    
    ..Craig

    Lots of gearboxes make a noise (rumbling/rattling) when idling in
    neutral - even from brand new. I have had a couple of Fiats that did
    this, and recently I drove a Renault Clio that did it once the box was
    warmed up.
    
    I have found that the simple expedient of slightly increasing the idle
    speed has reduced the noise to negligable proportions in most cases.
    
    - John.

    >slightly increasing the idle speed
    
    For slightly, read up to 7,000 revs.
    
    The gearbox noise is then virtually inaudible !!

Long time since this topic has been opened.

I am new to automatic 'boxes - other than borrowing my dads cars when I was an
spotty youth - and as the proud owner of a Pug 205 auto I'd like to know a bit
of background.

What's the basic theory of how they work, these days ? How can I tell if the
auto-box I have is of the 'fluid flywheel' type or is there now some major
advance in gearbox design which allows small cars to have auto's (something
you's never have seen 10+ years ago)

On my Pug the engine size is 1600cc and I'm well happy with the performance. Ok,
I'm not going to win the traffic light grand-prix, but with my licence record
the last thing I want to do these days is attract attention. My only gripe is
a really lumpy shift between 3rd and 4th ratio. Does the panel know a way of
investigating this and improving it (all the other changes are silky smooth) ?

    >>advance in gearbox design which allows small cars to have auto's
    >>(something you's never have seen 10+ years ago)
    
    10 Years ago I was driving round in a 1969 auto Austin 1300 with a fluid
    flywheel (which, in the cold, used to take up to 15 minutes to shift
    into reverse). This 4 speed gearbox is the one Minis used to have (& 
    still do?), and used the same oil as the engine.
    
    I looked at the workshop manual one day, & there was this amazing valve
    block thing that shoved the hydraulics around which eventually
    tightened bands around the gear being selected.
    
    I always tended to win the 'traffic light grand prix', because the car
    was held on the foot brake till red&amber, when it was allowed to crawl
    (depends on idle speed of engine), then straight into kick-down up to
    whatever the speed limit was.
    
    If you're new to autos, I hope I'm not patronising by explaining that
    kickdown is flooring the accelerator which causes the gearbox to hold
    onto gear for a little longer than usual (giving the aforementioned
    bril acceleration).
    
    I quite like autos, I've also had a 2200 Princess (a la Ambassador) 
    which had 3 gears & its kickdown felt like the spaceshuttle launch, 
    as the nose would rise up on the (quite long travel) suspension 
    before setting off.
    
    Not quite sure what your 'lumpy shift' is, but could it be during
    a kickdown effect (if more modern autos have this), which I remember 
    as being quite snatchy. Try checking whatever hydraulic reservoirs you
    find under the bonnet, as well as the gearbox oil level.
    
    Andy

    
    I bought my Rover (Auto) 827 Vitesse last May, it too had a sort of lumpy
    shift but I thought this was normal never having driven an auto for
    more than 20 miles or so before. However after having it serviced the
    gear changes became really smooth. I can't tell you what they did as
    the invoice is in German, but I guess new gearbox oil was used and
    possibly some sort of transmission fluid, not being technical I have no
    idea, cept I can tell you the price ;-).
    

    re: .21
    Ah I remember the Mini autobox well......
    Ours lost it's forward motion altogether - Mother was driving at the
    time and it died at the traffic lights in front of a truck - lots of
    fun :-(
    
    Non of the auto-gearbox people were interested as the design is
    slightly different to normal slush-boxes so we borrowed the tech
    sheet from a friendly garage, stripped it down, adjusted the bands,
    replaced the special high capacity oil pump which was worn out and
    put it back together.  Next week it died AGAIN !!!
    It turns out that the damn thing also had two clutches (forward and
    reverse) and it was one of these that had worn out.  Im not surprised
    no-one wanted to touch it, however, when it was going I'd rate it as
    more responsive than a conventional box.
    
    Stevie.

Thanks for the replies so far.

The lumpy shift is particularly annoying because it happens at around 55mph. This
means that in heavy traffic on motorways and dual carriageways it shifts up
and down all the time. I usually end up selecting 3 and leaving it there until
the traffic clears.

I'll check the levels under the bonnet. I'm pretty sure the auto-box isn't on 
the same oil as the engine because there's a seperate dip-stick for the gearbox.
The car was supposed to have been serviced as part of the purchase deal. They
certainly fixed the things I'd noticed (like high tickover) so I don't think
they deliberately skipped the auto-box. I'll mention the lumpy shift when I take
it for it's next service.

T.

    I have a Carlton with a 3 speed Borg warner (i think) auto box. Problem
    is not changing up until it reaches around 3500 to 4000 revs. Used to
    just click up into top at around 30mph, now it's like driving in
    kickdown all the time. In and around town i have to use manual
    selection, move up to 2nd at about 2500 revs. Can't get into top until
    doing 55mph/4000 revs. When decelerating it changes down into 2nd at
    about 1500 revs/35mph which makes it a bit of a jolt. Should stay in
    top at 30mph. 
    Reading through previous replies could it be
    needing a flush out, change of torque converter or maybe some
    adjustment. Any ideas on the price of a reconditioned converter if
    that's what's needed.
    
    colin.

    The gearshift on my wife's Fiat Uno has been getting progressively
    stiffer for a while now.  After investigation it turned out to be rust
    in part of the shift mechanism.  The fore and aft movement of the stick
    is transferred from the remote control levers to the gearbox via a
    vertical shaft encased in a tube on the back of the gearbox.  This is
    not mentioned in the Haynes manual (big surprise!).  Water can find
    it's way in and start rust inside the tube and on the shaft causing
    things to bind.
    
    This is apparently a fairly common problem and Fiat fixes it by
    replacing the entire shaft assembly - not cheap.  The assembly is not
    intended to be taken apart but is is easy if you:
    
    1) File off the blob of weld on top of the shaft (which is intended to
    stop things coming apart).
    
    2) Use a small hacksaw to remove the 10mm nut which holds the operating
    lever to the shaft.  The original nut is staked on and will strip the
    thread if you attempt to unscrew is forcibly - I found out the hard
    way!!!
    
    You can then remove the shaft from the tube and remove any rust using
    emery paper.  Apply a liberal dose of e.g copper grease and reassemble
    using a new 10mm nut and Loctite (tm) or a nyloc nut to make sure
    things can't come apart.
    
    You should be able to do the job in under 2 hours and save yourself the
    25 quid plus VAT for a new assembly.     
    
    The gearshift is now as good as new.
    
I hope this helps any Unow owners with the same problem
    
    John

	Hi,

	My Ford Orion is demonstrating the "common" Escort/Orion
	(MK3) gearbox speedo drive problem.

	The speedo "wobbles" about dropping from 60mph to zero
	and back up.  I'm told by my local garage that this is
	due to the bearings on the gearbox drive shaft being shot.

	I enquired as to the cost of repair and was quoted approx
	300 quid !

	I think it may be cheaper to replace the whole box with
	a recon unit.

	Does anybody know of a good/cheap (do those mix ? 8-})
	gearbox specialist in either Reading or Basingstoke ?

	Any help appreciated.

	Kevin.

I'd get a second opinion.  I had this problem on a 87 Escort, it turned out to
be the speedo rod/spindle/thingy that goes into the gearbox.  I can't remember 
the exact price I paid but is was nowhere near 300 squid.


..Craig

    RE :.25
    
    Well some kind old gentleman with an 'A' reg Carlton with only 58,000
    on the clock proceeded to bash his offside wing and two doors and the
    car ended up in the scrappies. Since mine has done 120,000 odd mile
    I purchased the engine, box, propshaft ,clutch cable, pedals and 
    bracket, mines is different as it has no 'hole' for the clutch cable
    for the princly sum of 110 notes. So that's my milage halved, just like
    that. Now for the fitting, hopefully by the end of this month. 
     On another note, just got my MOT yesterday and the engine passed the
    emission test no problem, not bad for 120,000mls. Cam shaft is a bit
    rattly at idle though.
    
    God, ye canny beat a good rake 'roon the scrappies man !!
    
    colin