Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    Sounded like a classic case of brake fade - you certainly picked the
    right corner! Beware, I seem to remember that racing brake fluid 
    absorbs water more than normal fluid (very detrimental to braking
    performance) so it needs changing frequently...
    
    Bill.

	The discs(carbon fibre) on current F1 cars actually glow red
	under heavy braking so there must be something that'll take it.

	-John

	"Racing" brake fluid, sorry Derek can't remember the brand/type, got
	replaced every race when I was helping out in F3. 

	Gordon

   

  I cant remember much about it, but I seem to remember something about a 
relatively new brake fluid that would take higher temperatures and last
a bit longer than most. It was in the news section of CCC sometime within the
last few months.

  I will try to find the 'article' again.

 	 Alan
	~~~~~~

Or why not put the info here as well for those who don't read carbuffs.

Scott

have you tried using 'Tar-Ox' fluid (&/or brake parts)?
i've seen quite a few ads of theirs claiming their race proven ability


...art

    
    Karts this weekend, not real cars!
    
    I knew there was a reason we weren't marshalling on Monday. Just think
    a bank holiday weekend where I can have 3 lie-ins!
    
    Mark

As that's not much dearer than good-quality DOT-4 fluid, would it be worth
using it in a road car?

Scott

PS Where is Autocross in Bracknell?

    
    This fluid is not suitable for road cars - it absorbs water too
    quickly. You'd have to spend too much time bleeding the system.
    
    I'll draw you a map of how to find Autocross -

As soon as I ask a question about brake fluid, the metro's brakes go...

Specifically, I've had to fill the reservoir up twice in the last three weeks,
so eventually decided there must be a leak somewhere.  Funny thing was there was
no sponginess or excess movement in the pedal, it was as solid as ever (well, as
solid as you'd expect on a metro ;-)

Eventually traced the leak to the rear nearside wheel.  Took the wheel off,
couldn't see any leaks in the pipes so took the drum off...
so *that's* where all the brake fluid had gone, lubricating the inside of the
drum and marinading the brake shoes.

It looks like the slave cylinder seals have gone, so I'll have fun this evening
replacing them.  But today's questions to the panel are:

What's the easiest way to get rid of all the brake fluid on the drum, backplate,
etc?  A bucket of soapy water and a stiff brush?  Is it worth trying to salvage
the brake shoes?  I doubt it, but as they're quite new it seems a shame to have
to bin them.

Scott

    
    Derek was wandering round with a bottle of meths last night after we
    had finished bleeding the 23's brakes. I assumed he was cleaning up any
    splashed fluid........... (you _were'nt_ drinking it were you? :-) )
    
    That would clean up the drums, but I don't know what to suggest for the
    pads.                           

Under no circumstances should you try and salvage the pads - they are
now impregnated with fluid, meaning that braking efficiency will be greatly
reduced.

Further, iunless the pads are very recent then you should replace the pad on
the opposite axle - otherwise the braking force on the axle will become
unbalanced.

Steve

Yes I know I'll have to replace shoes on both sides... oh well, it's only money!
But then you have to buy shoes in complete axle sets anyway...

    I've been reading this note with great intrest. I'll tell you why,
    It's no real big deal just a pain in the you know where. My Bmw bike is
    fitted with twin piston brembo callipers and abs.Now most books etc say
    change the fluid every year, fine, 20 mins work a year. Now what I have
    a problem with is my fluid is clapping out every 4 to 6 months, by that
    the pedal and lever start to get spongy after that time. Is this
    moisture in the fluid buisness related to the amount of work the
    braking system does or does it just happen. I do a hell of a lot more
    miles than the average person (34,000 last year),would the heavier
    mileage and presumably more braking account for the fluid going west
    faster???? The recomended fluid is DOT 4 and I have tried what ever BMW
    put in , Castrol, Shell, and now golden film or what ever. 
    
    Does this sound like it should happen that way, is the abs clobbering
    the fluid, or is someone topping the brake system up with water?
    Never to mind I'm having fun this week changing transmission oil,engine
    oil, brake fluid and tyres, I've even had time to get the polish out.  

>> Check to see if your rubber thingy has got a leak

...good policy for all aspects of life...

I fixed the metro brakes yesterday / this morning:

Cleaned the drum / backplate / hub with soap and water, got rid of all the
brake fluid.

Unscrewed the union holding the brake pipe to the slave cylinder.  Unfortunately
the brake pipe had rusted to the union, so I sheared the end of the pipe off.

Fortunately, being "one of them" (kit car builder) I have such useful things
as coils of brake pipe, assorted unions, and pipe flaring tool, so set to
making up a new brake pipe (first one I've done).  I cut the pipe to length,
put a single flare on one end, double flare on the other, bent the pipe to
shape, went to fit it and...

(those who've made brake pipes know what's coming next...)

...remembered I should have put the unions on the pipe *before* flaring the
ends...

Second attempt went a lot better: the new pipe fits better than the original!

The slave cylinder seals were replaced easily enough, although if I'd had one
handy I'd have replaced the whole cylinder as it's a bit rusty.  Put everything
back together, new brake shoes on both rear wheels (I think one of the old ones
was on the wrong way round...), then the messy job of bleeding the brakes.

(Anyone who knows a non-messy way to bleed metro brakes please let me know!)

Everything works fine now, I hope: I'll check for puddles of brake fluid under
the car this evening!

So now I can get back to laminating back in the bits of Moss I cut out...

Scott

    re:  .28
    
    You did say, in the race report, that the back end was on fire!
    
    	-Barry-
    

    
    The black fluid was bled out between the practice and the race, we've
    not looked at the colour of the fluid after the race, (yet), but it's
    on the list of things to be done.