Conference terri::cars_uk

    It's a Vauxhall Astra GTE Convertible
    
    Regs
    
    Jon

    
    Perhaps you should get one of those 'Zapper Gadgets' fitted on your
    dashboard. You know the one's that have 'Death Ray' or 'Rifle Gun' 
    or 'Grenade Launcher' sounds. Then you could get your own back on
    these 'loonies'.
    
    I've got one on my Skoda dashboard ;-)
    

    I don't think abuse is limited to more upmarket cars, there just seems
    to be a hooligan element abroad (why do they all drive 70s Cars
    -cortinas or marinas ??? large engines, maybe fuel injected??).
     
    Anyhow, when i got my new car, and its only a Fiesta Pop, I recieved a
    certain amount of abuse one night for having a G reg car,  and hassle
    for having a small engined car ('Bl***y womans car' was one of the more
    repeatable phrases).
    
    There are a lot of d******ds around.  (right number of *'s?).
    
    Mikef

    I was thinking more on the lines of spikes coming from my wheels and
    heat seeking missiles !!!

	I happens everywhere. I'd just received my first new car and was
	feeling pleased as punch.

	Took it into Fareham to do some shopping, came back to the multi-storey
	carpark to find that some 'gentleman' has squirted glue all over
	the side of the car.

	Devil of a job to get it off

    
    	I've got the answer!
    
    	When you look as old as me at 35 (burnt the candle at 5 ends!)
    	then they naturally assume that a 50yr old should be driving a
    	Jag ( ..... is this the right place to add 'Daimler' as weel?)
    	.... but if I'm in company, and the conversation comes around to
    	cars, and you don't want to 'pose' .... there's always other
    	answers to '.. what do you drive?'
    
    		The Daimler passes as 
    	
    		"a 19 year-old British Leyland"
    
    		... and since Ford took over Jaguarm the HE passes as..
    		
    		" ... Oh .. only a Ford variant, over 3 years old!"
    
    	Te he!     *8^)
    
    	Seriously tho' .... had a 'nail' job twice on the Jag .... and a
    	knife job on the vinyl once.  Also, bith headlights on the Diamler
    	kicked in, and the boot forced (they did'nt get in!, in fact an
    	AA an spent 2 hrs trying once and gave up!)
    
    	Paul   ( ... who likes this conference, chaps, drive on!)

    
    And nobody in this conference EVER speaks in derogatory ways about
    others' pride and joys do they? :^)
    
    Sounds like the yob in the first note was either mentally sub-normal
    or p*ssed!
    
    Mark

    Yes
    
    Madge old boy ,
    
    
      We returned to our car one evening recently to find a beer glass
    turned upside down on the roof. The glass was still half full , the
    rest of it having soaked in and "washed" down the side. 
      I suppose we were lucky, but what a mentality and what a waste!!
    
    Just how LOUD were you playing that tape I did for you Madge??!!!
    
    
    Dave
    

    I left my Plane in Cumbria last week ... came back on the train to
    pick up the Daimler to drive back.
    
    I parked the Plane outside, and my sister was watching it daily.
    On thursday it was OK
    
    Sat morning when arriing to fly top the Shobdon air-race, I found that
    someone had ripped of the covers, clibed in (sitting on the headsets
    and breaking them), and then poured a lot (full can?) of beer down the
    instrument panel and on the seats.
    
    But ... they did'nt steal my camera that I'd left in the plane by
    mistake!!!?

    Back in the '50s, before when I were a lad,  my Dad had a Morris minor
    convertible, (you remember the type with a split screen and a red hood)
    And some yobbo slashed the hood with a knife in Llangollen (Quaint
    touristy small town in N.Wales)
    
    So nothing new here.  Huw.

Modern car advertising and car design does nothing to discourage 
this phenomena. With many cars having TURBO splashed across the bodywork
in large friendly letters, they migbt as well say "My car goes faster than
yours".

As long as we have car adverts which boast smugness and one-upmanship as
a quality associated with their product, and
as long as their are people receptive to this kind of nonsense (half this 
notesfile judging by some of the entries), then this kind of criminal
activity is an unfortunate inevitability.

Dougie

    This is usually the view taken by people with slowwwwwwwwwwww cars.
    
    
    						Geo.

    RE.16
    
    ME BEING A PROUD RS TURBO OWNER (NOT A SMARMY GIT) I MUST SAY THAT I
    HAVE NOT GOT BIG WRITING ON THE SIDE SAYING THAT "MY CAR IS FASTER THAT
    YOURS" BECAUSE I KNOW THAT MY CAR IS FASTER THAN YOURS !!!!!!!
    IF I CAUGHT ANYONE TAMPERING WITH MY TURBO I'D RIP OF THEIR HEAD AND
    SH*$ DOWN THEIR NECKS.
    
                                     YOURS 
                                             JOSH.

< .17 True (how did you know!) but irrelevant. In my case its because I've
no money, and don't own a car anyway. Many people chose not to buy smarmy
cars, even if they have the money.

< .18 Try prodding that key to the left of the A - yes, that's the one.
Good O - I can take my ear muffs of now. So this car you have, what is it then?
How do you KNOW its faster than mine? (which doesn't exist - clearly a 
terribly convoluted temporal paradox). You're obviously very attached to this
heap of egotistical nonsense. Does it go very fast? gosh. I'd better hang a 
roll of Andrex around my neck. 

Dougie

	Well thank you Josh for that unemotional and level headed reply,
	indeed ny own car has only a very small Turbo badge at the back
	and is devoid of any other stickers/decals signwriting or whatever
	on other body panels.


	Gordon

	P.S If I caught the guy who tore of my rear wiper I'd give him a
            jolly good talking to and then .....

    
    How can a car be egotistical? It's just a machine. Quite what a 
    'smarmy' car is I don't know (presumably one with a bad oil leak).
    
    Sounds like another of the 'I hate cars' brigade. Funny how these
    people are always happy to accept free lifts though isn't it.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Dougie, I have no idea if you accept lifts without offering to help
    with the costs, so don't take that last comment to apply specifically
    to you. :^)

C'mon Mark, if everyone went around being level-headed then there wouldn't
be any of the vitriolic rambling which we all know and love. You're no fun!

There is severe amount of missing the point around here. My original point
is that the way the car industry sells and promotes powerful and upmarket
cars panders to the weaknesses in the human character. (I know, so what else
is new in advertsing).

Many car advertisements make smug and sanctimonous statements about their
product and the oppositions'. But we're not talking about washing powder here.
People buy cars which reflect their personal tastes for style and something
which they want to reflect their image. The image of the car is often the
image of the driver - through driver and manufacturer choice.

If the owner buys , oh bugger it. I need to go to the toilet and can't be
bothered getting into a long and terribly serious argument about this.

Dougie
 

    
    One reason I bought my Mazda 626 GT was that the 16v badges etc were
    all peelable transfers.
    
    They were immediately peeled. Doesn't make the car any different in
    performance - does make it less a target for boy racers etc. Looks
    boring, goes well.
    
    Recommended.

    
    Who doesn't buy washing powder to reflect their style ?
    
    Or did I miss something? :^)
    
    Mark

    
    I prefer the Magic-Ball myself ! But whilst talking about Washing
    Powder/Liquid etc. does anyone else use it to 'gleam' clean their
    alloys ?
    
    I swear it works a treat ! But don't over do it -- It's enough to 
    make anyone jealous ;-)
    

	I find it a real pain to take of my alloys and put them in the
	washing machine when I want to clean them. My "better half" also
	maintains that this practice does the washer no good whatsoever.

	Gordon

    Sadly my washing machine's orifice is to small to fit the Renault's
    wheels in so I have to get them dry cleaned at Sketchleys.
    
    Being an old car the Marcos wheels are hand-wash only!
    
    Mark

    REF.18
    
    I certainly hope Josh never catches anyone tampering with his Turbo ! 
    Or if he does, let's hope the guy is short, cos if he's not Josh will
    get a hernia trying to position his bot in the vicinity of the
    tamperers neck !!!    Unless Josh is extremely Tall ??
    
    P.s... My car doesn't have loads of Stickers on it !! and for
    information book figures state that its actually slower than the
    standard GTE ??  I just bought it cos I dreamt of owning one since I
    was 15.......
    
    Regards
    
    Jon

    One of my first cars was a clubman .... (turbo-matchbox to you), and
    I actually found that so long as you never accepted a race from another
    matchbox owner, the 1275 GT decal/badge from a mini in the scrap yard
    did a lot for my 'ego' without hurting my insurance or mileage.
    
    By the way .... can you buy a BMW without any stickers? I believe it's
    an option when you order.
    
    Paul

What's all this crap from previous noters being *proud* of not having any
decals on their cars?

For example:

>> One of the reasons I chose the Mazda was because the stickers peeled off!

That has to be one of the worst reasons I have ever heard. I detect one massive
hangup here on "hot" cars.

I would only ask for no badges if it were listed as an either/or option at
no extra cost (or ideally a saving). Spending any more effort than that, is,
I think, the sign of a complete an utter egotistical person.

Mark.

...Just a shiny big spare-wheel boss with "Moss" on it.

(The spare wheel is on the outside where other cars have a boot.  No boot =>
 nowhere to put badges ;-)

But what badge would I put on it?

Sierra-Escort-Cortina-Metro-Mini-Spitfire-Moss?

And probably a few others by the time I've finished, although no "Turbo"!

Not that I want any tacky badges on it.  All they do is get clogged up with
Turtle Wax which takes ages to get out...

Scott

Josh,

1) PLEASE STOP SHOUTING!  Upper case is a pain to read...

2) Why do you judge people's character by their car, or vice-versa?  In my
   experience, the only people whose car reflects their character are those
   who are awful drivers and thoroughly objectionable people: they drive large
   powerful cars with lots of badges and flashy dangly bits.

   Note: I'm not saying that driving a large car means someone is objectionable,
   before the complaints roll in.

   My mum drives a Polo; she is not a vicar's wife, or of the stereotypical
   vicar's wife mentality you are trying to portray.  She has a Polo because
   she wanted a new, small car.  The Polo is the most comfortable / luxurious
   car fitting her requirements.  She does not need or want a RS/Turbo/GTi
   (neither do 99.5% of motorists, but that's another rathole), but that
   should not be interpreted by you as a sleight on her character.

(Back to the left margin...)

I currently drive a 998cc X-reg metro.  Why?  It was cheap to buy, it's cheap
to insure and run, and I'll be able to sell it for not much less than I payed
for it (your average new car loses more than my metro's whole value in a year!).

The metro does not reflect on my character, often to the surprise and
indignation of the hot-hatch brigade whom I almost always leave standing...
Those who drive bigger, more powerful cars see "old metro" and think: "slow
car, slow driver, he's going to get in my way, let's get past him" when it's
invariably they and there sub-standard driving that hold me up: their power
is so impressive in a straight line, but they haven't a clue how to drive
sensibly and safely on busy junctions, and tend to rely on their power to get
them out of trouble they shouldn't be in in the first place.

Bit of a rant that, but I'm fed up with all this stupid talk and the stupid
mentality more suited to an infant school:  "My dad's got a BX GTT RS Turbo GTi
Cosworth ABS......, what's yours got?  See, my dad's better than yours."

It will be interesting to see how other drivers react when I drive in exactly
the same way in the Moss, but you'll have to wait a couple of months for a
report on that...

Scott

PS Ideally what I want is a large truck with large knobbly spikey bits on the
front, that make it very obvious they have no sympathy for the back end of
any car in their way.  Then I'll drive down the middle lane of the M4 with a
large sign saying "The left hand lane is EMPTY!!!!  so USE IT 'cos I'm going
FAST and I'm not pulling over!!!!"

	I drive a large powerful car but without the flashy dangly bits...
	Does that mean I'm an awful driver but not objectionable?

	;-)

	Oh no she hasn't...

    RE.34
    
    Please explain how (as you said) you manage to leave the "Hot hatchback
    brigade" standing with your 1.0 Metro. I would be very interested in
    hearing how this is achieved. I'm sure many readers of this notesfile
    would be interested too. 
    I wonder if it ever occurs to some people that buying a "performance"
    car is maybe a way for someone to buy a car which is a bit better than
    the ones driven by the "base model car brigade".
    I have found that as far as cars with dangly bits and awful drivers go
    it is usually 1.0 Metro's, 1.1 Escorts and Capri 1.6L owners who spend so
    much money fiting crap (RGA Styling kits, hi-level brake lights, etc)
    onto their cars that they could probably have bought a performance car in 
    the first place !!
    
    
    							Gedo.

    
    Sorry,
          Have to agree with GAITKENHEAD,.34 is talking nonsense.
         I know a lot of good drivers and I know a lot of bad drivers 
         and as far as I see there is no connexion between the driving
         technique and the type of car.I think it is just easy for people
         with base model cars to say the "hot-hatch" brigade are bad
         drivers and vice versa.
                                          Dooggzz
    
         p.s. I do however think that trying to burn off something 
              like an Integrale or something in a 1.0L Metro is
              seriously bad technique
    
         

Why do so many people boast about getting stopped for speeding? Have you
ever heard of anyone who was Ashamed of it?

I drive a Ford Fiesta 1100 but I'm also a nuclear powered sex machine.

I made a special effort with my spelling of nuclear to keep the mod happy.

If I'm in the fast lane (oh, don't you mean the overtaking lane? - No, I mean
the bloody fast lane its less syllables and everyone knows what you're talking
about), and somebody looms up in my rear-view mirror, I pull over to let them 
through, regardless of what speed they are doing.

I hate go faster stripes.

I think RESHNI TALKS RUBBISH AND SHOULD SHUT UP.

I think people who like irritating and sumg performance car adverts and
buy the car after being influenced by the advert, are irritating and smug 
individuals. Most adverts for performance cars are irritating and smug. 
I hate them.

The Lexus can reach 155 MPH. That's handy.

If I had the money, I'd buy a Golf GTi or Vauxhall Astra SRI/GTE.

Proportionally more cars involved in motorway accidents are performance cars.

Modern performace cars look really smarmy.

er,

what was I talking about?

I do not try and burnup hot-hatch and performance car drivers, and I did not
say that.  Everyone knows that in a straight line I can't.  What I do is observe
an approaching obstacle as early as possible, and change speed / gear to suit
the conditions so that I can make progress around it as smoothly and safely as
possible, viz:

I'm doing 70 on a dual carriageway.  Turbo Nutter passes me at >> 70.
Roundabout ahead: turbo nutter screeches to a halt, waits for gap in traffic,
then has to start from rest and tries to do 0-60 v. fast to join the traffic
flow.
Meanwhile, I've slowed down, tried to gauge the roundabout conditions, and
often (not always) can arrange to arrive at the roundabout at the right
speed and time to slot into the traffic flow without the need for stopping,
or violent braking / acceleration.  Hence I often pass Mr. Nutter  who is
just pulling away from rest.

Also, by trying to be more lane-conscious I usually end up taking a better
line through junctions than Mr Nutter (hence can accelerate away from them more
quickly), who suddenly finds he's in the wrong
place.  He has two options: either brake and try and find a gap to get in the
right place, or use his power to get past all the traffic and out of the mess
he's foolishly got himself into.

A simple example is a set of traffic lights on the A329 between Ascot and
Bracknell.  The approach road splits into two lanes, the right hand lane
being clearly marked with "right-tuen-only" arrows.  This lane is usually
empty, while the "straight ahead" lane is usually full.  Mr Nutter zooms past
in the right turn lane, with the intention of going straight ahead... and finds
himself entering the junction going straight towards opposing traffic.  It
happens *every* day, without fail...

I quite agree that there are as many bad drivers in 1 litre metros as in
big performance cars (yes, even I make the occasional mistake ;-), but I find
a lot of people in performance cars use the power in the wrong ways.  At least
Kevin with his furry-diced small-engined escort can only be dangerous at low
speeds... (and yes I know that's a gross generalisation)

Anyone who thinks I'm talking a load of nonsense should do the following:
1) commute with me for a week.
2) take an advanced driving course
3) keep such personal comments to themsleves: you're only saying it 'cos you
   look down on me for driving a metro ;-)

I'd say a lot more, but I've already said it in other similar topics: at the
end of the day driver training and competence are sadly lacking...

Scott

    RE: .34 +
    
    I like to think that I brought the GTI so that driving is less effort,
    and that I can safely overtake something which is hinderling my
    progress.  I think there's nothing worse than pulling out of a junction, 
    gritting your teeth as your car struggles to the average speed of that road.
    
    If you see a car in your required lane which is 'very likely' to hold
    up your progress (the METRO was designed for city shopping, who is ever
    in a hurry to go shopping? ;-) ), and you have the option of a 'safe' 
    right hand lane.  Wouldn't you choose that, if you KNOW you can safely 
    accelerate quicker than that person (unlikely mechanical faults 
    permitting)?  Although I don't know the turning on the A329 mentioned, 
    on a road you know I consider this a safe and not impolite thing to do.
    
    Am I smug?
    
    Am I making sense, or is the above a good reason why I just paid a
    FORTUNE for insurance?  Are there any Psycologists who can give me any
    corrections/insight into my first paragraph!
    
    Rob.

Steady on a bit chaps,


All this swearing and the like is bad for the heart...


I drive a 'hot hatch'. I got it because it's fun. It attracts other
drivers no end. I have had Kevin, Tracies etc, burning me off for no
apparent reason. One guy went past me at about 70, with his car shaking
and showering me in bits of rust. I've been overtaken by 1.6 Sierra's
on a blind corner. If those guys want to do that, let them. I won't be
going to their funeral.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what car you drive, it's your skill that
counts. Yes, I drove a very old battered car before, and has already
been pointed out, with skill, foresight and a bit of thought you can
out maneourve faster cars. SO WHAT!

Ok, it's nice to do it, but do you do it just to 'burn off the hot
hatches' OR do you do it because it's sensible and get's you from A to B?

re. .42 "Kevin with furry dice and small engined car"

Small engines nowadays still can do well over 90mph, in the wrong place
this is as lethal as ANY performance car.

Finally, there are certain etiquette rules for notes conferences, I
don't know them all, but let's cut the swearing and the over use of CAPITALS. 

    I've set .33 and .40 to hidden.
    
    Steady on chaps - this is an open conference
    
    Rich
    ( Moderator )
    

    re .46  I don't think the point was to deliberatly out-manouver faster
    cars, I think it shows you are a better/more thoughtfull driver (and they are
    not confined to smaller or larger cars before that rathole appears
    again).
    
    
    ikef

   I don't care what people think of me and my car (A-Reg Escort 1.3GL)
   and I don't care a t*** about whether someone elses car is better
   than mine.  I am happy with my car and that is all there is to it.

   You can't spend your life worrying/thinking about what other people
   think of you, especially if in derogatory terms.  All that matters
   is if you are happy with yourself/your car.

   Jane

I try to be realistic about this.

I don't think my car confers ANY advantage in the time taken to get from
A to B. What I do know is that my car is GREAT fun to drive, stickers or
no stickers. I too detest the "Up where you belong", smug smarmy adverts.

Removal of stickers proclaiming your car's type is yet another form of
oneupmanship. Given that a BMW 316 probably gets you there as fast a 325i,
why doesn't everyone just have an unlabeled BMW 316 with all the goodies
that a 325i gets as standard.

It's in the car manufacturers interest to pander to public tastes. The
perception is that the smaller "hot" car requires brasher advertising,
hence the extravagant body kits on the R5GTT, Astra GTE, RS-Turbo etc.

The bigger cars, like the Calibra, Renault 21 Turbo, BMW 325i (I know
there are exceptions to this!!), generally seem to need less "war paint",
and try to make it more on their body shape.

Most of the above cars, however, still need identification on the outside,
because, without that, they could quite easily be mistaken for the humdrum
cars that the base models are. The stickers are the only way that this
advantage can be shown.

Specialist cars like the Calibra, MX-5, Elan, Corrado etc. generally don't
require such decoration.

I think I said what I wanted to say.

Mark.

BMW 316 get you there as fast as a BMW325i???????


Not bloody likely! 8^)

    re stickers -
    
    Strange how topics warp. The base note was about jealousy/agression.
    
    I remove my stickers because I have already proved to myself with
    previous cars that boring colours & no flash bits mean less attention
    from plod & silly little boy-racers, not to mention the penknife
    brigade.
    
    Gets translated into me having a hang-up about hot cars. 
    
    Very odd. My car is not hot (150bhp/135mph/0-60 7.3 if that excites u).
    If I want hot vehicles I wheel out one of my motor-cycles. 145 mph,
    0-60 <3sec, 0-100 <8sec. No stickers either .... & much quicker from A
    to B over 50 miles in any area in the South East than any car, even if 
    I religiously observe every limit from 30mph upwards.
    
    Interestingly, have seen much less jealousy/childishness amongst motor
    cyclists about each others toys than u see in some car circles.
     

    
    Bit of a rathole the old Motor bike vs Car debate.
    
    Sure a motorcycle can do 150 mph and 0-60 in less than 4 seconds, but 
    then again a well set up Phantom jet would make that look pretty
    pathetic! I know that's an extreme comparison, but for a lot of people
    (myself included) a motorcycle is not something they would even consider.
    
    I know people with motorcycles and I know a lot of them who sneer at 
    people with smaller, less powerful machinery, so it's ridiculous to
    suggest that bikers are immune from bitchiness or whatever.
    
    Like someone said, what does it matter what someone drives if they're
    happy with it. Some people are quite happy with a 950 Ford Fiesta,
    whereas I would hate to have to drive such a machine, but if they are
    happy what does it matter whether I like it or not? To suggest that 
    someone with a performance car is automatically a lunatic speed
    merchant is stupid, I am regularly passed by 'ordinary' saloons doing
    in excess of 90 mph on the motorways or even heavily loaded estate
    cars!
    
    Finally the point about fast cars being pointless in this part of the
    world is also wrong, I can ALWAYS travel between points A and B on 
    A and B roads in less time in my Renault than I could in a less 
    powerful car, due to the increased opportunities to overtake and its
    greater ability to acclerate away from roundabouts/junctions/corners.
    
    Mark

     >	A  750 motorbike says you are a adrenalin addict with a death wish
     >		i.e. reflects your mental dispostion, not your
     >	bank balance or house district.
    
    Why don't you go and check the price of the 750cc Yamaha OW01 ?
    
    Dave Wood

    
    Re the bike vs Phantom debate....
    
    Would be close.  Performance car have just tested an F40 against a
    Tornado GR1.
    
    The tornado had to take off at 180, and only just beat the F40 to the
    test distance point because it takes so long to get moving (you can't
    hold the brakes on whilst the engines have got the after-burner
    blasting away).  The F40 was dropping the clutch at 3500.  The bike
    would get away even quicker.
    
    The pictures of the F40 and Tornado on adjacent runways are something
    to behold.
    
    Nigel
    

    Re .55
    
    Bikers may respect other people's bikes, but they don't necessarily
    respect their cars. I have every reason to believe that a group of
    bikers ran a car key along the boot of my shiny new BMW a few years
    back!
    
    Alison

    
    Alison,
      
       Keying cars, in my experience, is JUST NOT a biker habit.
    
    A yob on a bike is a different animal completely. ! 
    
    Now car drivers attitudes towards bikes! There's a issue.
      We have just sold a Ducati which was damaged 3 times by people
    parking in our (quiet) street and not bothering to pick it up let alone
    admit to knocking it over.
    
    Df

    re:-1
    
    	I expect your idea of a biker is someone with long black greasey hair,
    tatty old leather jacket full of studs, hobnail boots and bites the
    heads of chickens. If that is the case , that is definatly the
    minority. I ride a bike, a BMW in fact. It cost more that the average
    persons car costs. As for respect , I think that everybody else on the
    road is blithering idiot. I have seen motorcyclist how deserve to have 
    an accident but more often than not the motorcyclist is the innocent
    party in an accident. As for scratching cars, what about kids, general 
    yobs. Just because someone has a motorcycle jacket on does not mean
    they are a motorcyclist. 
    
    
    	Garry
    
    
    
    

You know what doesn't bother me? Bikers passing me on the inside or outside
when I'm on the motorway. Or any other road for that matter. But, when your
a NPSM, you live a pretty mellow life.

Ho Hum.

Dougie

    
    Wot's a NPSM. Ignorance rules.
    
    Re Phantom vv motorcycle. Not a sensible illustration. Phantom would
    still be in first third of runway when M/c at other end. Phantom
    rather better from 200 mph upwards ................
    
    F40 easily blown off by modern m/c up to 130-ish -- after that wind
    resistance takes its inevitable toll. Even my 10 year old Laverda would
    leave it for dead until some way beyond 100mph -- not that it matters,
    'cos it's academic on the road.
    
    On the road the best statistic is car = 5ft-6ft wide
    		                      m/c = 2ft wide
    
    That's enough difference to help traffic progress, & done politely, it
    needn't cause offence -- although it can & does cause jealousy .....
	

RE: -.1

Except for the guy that pushed to the front of the queue a couple of weeks ago
- on a Goldwing with sidecar. I reckon that this combination is as wide as some
family saloons.

Steve

    
    
    
    	Surely you mean a motorhome ;-)
    
    

    Re last...
    
    You should have seen the parade of Goldwings in Basingstoke on
    Saturday.  They stopped the traffic in the town on their way through..
    for 20 minutes...some of them not only had sidecars but trailers too!

And they reckon there was about 1000 (yes 1K) Goldwings in attendance.

Simon

    
    There are 1000 Goldwings in THIS country? Just goes to show that poor
    taste isn't exclusively an American trait! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    

No I didn't say that, There were about 100 Goldwings at the meet.

I say some from Germany, Holland etc.

Simon.