Conference terri::cars_uk

Recognised foreign driving licences are valid for up to 12 months here in the 
US, even for residents. Thereafter, you'd be expected to take a test. (In
reality, for residents a license is needed for all sorts of day-to-day ID
requirements, so it is best to get one asap. However, I don't think this is
necessary in your colleague's situation.)

I had no problem buying my (new) car without a US license. No one checked - 
they were glad to have my money. I even got insurance prior to getting a US 
licence. *However*, both the Motor Vehicles registry and insurance company 
in the state in which you register your car (a royal pain in itself, especially
here in Massachusetts) are likely to ask for your (local) driving licence 
number. I had no local driving licence number, so they both used my Social 
Security number instead (which becomes your driving licence number in this 
but not all states). I think the Social Security number was required anyway 
by the insurance co.

Now this is where you might hit some problems. If you have no Social Security 
number in the US, you are treated with a great deal of suspicion. You might 
as well be a non-person, as every form seems to require a SS no. It might 
be an idea to get a SS no. via the US Embassy or something (I think you
can have one as long as you have a valid reason - wanting to open a US 
bank account is usually good enough).

I think you also might have problems with insurance if you don't have a 
permanent address.

Be warned - you thought used-car salesmen were dodgy in the UK? Tactics
can be slimier still here in the US. Many car dealers don't put used-car 
prices on the windscreen - you'll hear "make me an offer" instead. If
a price *is* on the windscreen, it is the inflated price that only a fool 
would pay. I'd chat with plenty of people and do some reading before buying,
if I were your colleague...

Might your colleague be able to persuade a US friend to lend them a car? (You 
can always -- unofficially of course -- make it 'worth their while') All cars
here in Mass., and generally in the US, are insured 'any driver'. You'd have
to find a very trusting friend however, and be willing to pay up for any 
accidents!

John

    To drive in the USA, you will need an international driving permit
    (which you can get from the AA, I believe), which is good for one year. 
    Buying a car and registering it should not be a problem, but getting
    the car insured would very likely be the biggest problem, because you
    have what they call an out-of-state (as in New York state, not United
    States) license.  This is because they have no access to your driving
    record, even if you are from a neighbouring state.  You may get around
    this by bringing along your driving record, if it is possible for you
    to obtain such a thing.
    
    I don't know about other states, but in the two states that I have
    lived in--Florida and New Hampshire--you can get a license by just
    showing your driving permit and do an eye-sight test.  For Florida, you
    can walk right in to the test centre and do that (after studying the
    local traffic laws, that is).  For New hampshire, You need to make an
    appointment for the test and it is usually at least two weeks away.
    
    Even if you need to do the complete test, it is extremely easy,
    compare to the tests in Britain (Yes, I have a British license).  I say
    you will probably need a total of one day to prepare yourself for the
    test.
    
    However, the insurance premium is likely to be high since your license
    is only a couple of days old, but at least you should have no problem
    getting it.  Other factors in determining the premiums are, of course,
    your age, gender, marital status and the car.
    
    -=Chong=-

    Well, John in .1 just told you a slightly different story for
    Massachusetts, and that is how it is here--every state does things its
    own way.
    
    I forgot to mention that some states, like New Hampshire, do not
    require insurance at all, some, like Florida, require a liability
    coverage (sort of a third-party coverage), and some, like
    Massachusetts, are state regulated so the coverage and premium are the
    some no matter who you buy the insurance from (or something like
    that--I am not very familiar with it myself).
    
    Also, like .1 had mentioned, you need a "permanent" address to do many
    things.  Getting the social security number is not difficult--wanting
    to open a US bank account is indeed the reason a friend of mine gave to
    get hers.
    
    My experience has been that, you can do most things without a social
    security number or a local driving license.  Your passport and driving
    permit should be good enough.  However, getting them isn't difficult at
    all so why not.
    
    So, I guess the order of doing things is:
    
    	1. Find a permenent address.  This is also the state where you have
    	   to register your car and get your license.
    
    	2. Get a social security number.  Just drop by the local social
    	   security office.
    
    	3. Buy a car and get it insured.  You should really do the two at
    	   the same time.  I.e., don't buy it unless you know that you can
    	   insure it, assuming that insurance is required.
    
     	4. Have it inspected, if it is required.  The inspection
    	   requirement may differ even between towns.
    
    	5. Register it.  This is when they will ask to see proofs of your
    	   insurance or inspection, whichever is required.
    
    -=Chong=-

    < To drive in the USA, you will need an international driving permit
    < (which you can get from the AA, I believe), which is good for one year.
    
    I've driven in the US many times in cars hired from Avis and as far
    as they are concerned, a valid UK driving license is good enough.  It
    is my understanding that an International driving license is not a
    requirement.......
    
    -Dave
    

    Re. .-1
    
    The last time (a year ago) I checked (with Avis in New Hampshire), they
    require international permit.  I also got a warning from a cop in
    Florida many years ago for not having it.
    
    -=Chong=-

    It happened to me..
    
    crossing the border from New Mexico into Arizona, the border police
    wanted to see my drivers licence, while checking out the car for
    illegal stuff, such as fruit and meat !
    
    The policeman looked at my Uk licence and saw my list of endorsements
    showing a speeding endorsement,
    
    "Hey, now thats what I call sensible," he said, "Giving people a
    rating for driving at speed"
    
    "Sorry ?" I asked.
    
    "I see you got an endorsement to drive at speed, how do you guys
    test this, what speed does this allow you to drive at ?" he replied.
    
    I realised what he was on about, and carried on the thread, and
    said I was ok to drive at the UK national limit of 70mph.
    
    "Oh, that's a real good idea, but don't forget you guys are in Arizona
    now and you'll have to keep it down to 55...endorsement or not !
    Have a nice day now" was the bemused officers reply.
    
    
    So remember, if you've got 'em, flaunt 'em.
    
    
    AMS

    shades of Jasper Carrot methinks....

In New Hampshire, you register the car before you get it inspected.  After
registering it you have 10 days to get it inspected and the emissions checked,
depending on which county you 'live' in.

Here in Georgia, you can buy a new or used car and drive it for 10 days without
even registering it!  It was quite strange to see cars with no plates on them
what so ever.

All this goes to show, the rules differ a lot between states.

Dave

What exactly do you mean by "registering" in this case?  In England a car is
(usually) only ever registered once, when the first owner buys it.  Subsequent
owners just have to tell the authorities (DVLC) that they now own the car.

The discussion here suggests that the cars themselves have to be re-registered
every time the owner changes, with new number plates, etc.  Or is it just if a
car is sold in a different state to where it was previously registered?

What about these "inspections"?  It sounds like every time you buy a car,
whether new or used, it has to have an inspection regardless of how recently
it was last inspected.  Is this inspection like the English MOT test?  Do you
have an equivalent of the MOT test?

Also, one reply mentioned that in some states you don't need insurance.  Does
this mean not even third party cover?  That sounds a bit irresponsible of the
authorities to me...

Yours curiously,

Scott

re. previous

Getting a local licence here is easy - the test is a cinch compared with the 
British one. Your problem with getting a licence might be time - here in MA
you have to set up an appointment a week or so in advance to do the "written" 
test (which is actually a set of 10 multiple-choice questions of which you
have to answer 7 correctly!); then after doing this, there's a wait of about
3 weeks before you sit the practical part of the test. This is basically
a test to see you can drive in a straight line, stop, reverse and do a three
point turn, all on a little back road. The practical part of my test took 
less than 5 minutes.

It really depends on which state you intend to make your 'permanent' address
as to what the car purchase/licensing/registry procedure would be.

John

>What exactly do you mean by "registering" in this case?  In England a car is
>(usually) only ever registered once, when the first owner buys it.  Subsequent
>owners just have to tell the authorities (DVLC) that they now own the car.

Each time you buy a car, you have to register, and pay a fee ($50?). If you 
are not transferring a number plate from another car, you pay a fee for a 
number plate too. This applies equally to transfers from other states.

In Massachusetts, you have to have a stamped piece of paper from the ins. co.
(like a UK cover note) to prove that you are insured before you can register 
the car.

Every so often (18 months in Mass), they gouge you for some more money to 
continue your registration. For the c.$50 fee, they'll give you another
little date sticker less than an inch square to stick in the corner of 
your number plate.

>What about these "inspections"?  It sounds like every time you buy a car,
>whether new or used, it has to have an inspection regardless of how recently
>it was last inspected.  Is this inspection like the English MOT test?  Do you
>have an equivalent of the MOT test?

The inspections are basically for emissions. There are other inspections too
(e.g. does handbrake work, do lights work, are there four wheels on the car)
but these are minor compared with the British MoT. You go to a garage 
authorised to do inspections in pretty much the same way as you do in Britain.
The inspections take place whenever the car's ownership is transferred 
(including when it is new), and thereafter every year.

>Also, one reply mentioned that in some states you don't need insurance.  Does
>this mean not even third party cover?  That sounds a bit irresponsible of the
>authorities to me...

In NH, you are not required to have insurance. However, you'd be foolish not 
to insure given the potential for silly law suits for large sums of money in 
the US. Also, if you borrow money to buy a car, "sufficient insurance" is often 
a requirement of the loan in such states.

John

    Re. .8

    >In New Hampshire, you register the car before you get it inspected. 
    >After registering it you have 10 days to get it inspected and the
    >emissions checked, depending on which county you 'live' in.

    I think you can have it done either way (note that we are talking about
    New Hampshire only, gentlemen) since the registrar don't check it.  I
    usually get it inspected first because I need to get the emission
    tested first anyway.  Yes, I believe you need to have the emission test
    first since you need the test result to register.

    Re. .9

    >What exactly do you mean by "registering" in this case?  In England a
    >car is (usually) only ever registered once, when the first owner buys
    >it.  Subsequent owners just have to tell the authorities (DVLC) that
    >they now own the car.
    >
    >The discussion here suggests that the cars themselves have to be
    >re-registered every time the owner changes, with new number plates,
    >etc.  Or is it just if a car is sold in a different state to where it
    >was previously registered?

    No, the car has to be registered, and taxed, every year by the owner's
    birthday, in addition to registering for the first time after he/she
    had just bought the car.  It is equivalent to the "road tax" in England
    which you pay every year for the "disc" to be displayed on your
    windscreen, but in this case, you get a sticker for your number
    plate (or plates, depending on the state :-)) instead.  The amount
    taxed also varies from state to state.  In Florida, it is a flat fee of
    around US$30.  Here in New Hampshire, it varies by the year of the car,
    less as the car gets older.  Last year, I paid US$85 for my 1986 RX7.

    Everytime you register your car, you have an option of getting a new
    number plate (you have to pay for it, of course).

    >What about these "inspections"?  It sounds like every time you buy a
    >car, whether new or used, it has to have an inspection regardless of
    >how recently it was last inspected.  Is this inspection like the
    >English MOT test?  Do you have an equivalent of the MOT test?

    Yes, it is exactly like the MOT.  Not every state needs it, though, and
    the requirement for each state (and sometimes town) is different.

    >Also, one reply mentioned that in some states you don't need
    >insurance.  Does this mean not even third party cover?  That sounds a
    >bit irresponsible of the authorities to me...

    That's right.  Those that require it usually only require a bodily
    injury coverage (less than "third party"), while some require liability
    coverage ("third party").  Yes, the insurance they have here is going to
    confuse you for a while, too (it is designed to do that :-)).  "Fire
    and theft" is covered by the "comprehensive", and the "comprehensive" in
    England is all the above plus the "collision", i.e. the "collision"
    covers your car.  And then there is "medical payments", "uninsured
    motorists", "rental car", "towing and roadside assistance", "wakeup
    call", "diaper (napkin) changing", ...  :-) :-) :-)  Basically, instead
    of the three options (third party, fire and theft, and comprehensive),
    here they have about ten!  Furthermore, within some of these, like
    liability, you can specify the amount covered.  For comprehensive and
    liability, you can specify the deductible amount.

    Let us know if you are insterested in knowing more.  :-)

    -=Chong=-

Another point I failed to mention - here in Mass.(as in many other states)
you pay a property tax every year on your car to the town or city in which 
you live. This excise tax is billed according to their average value of your 
car model. (e.g when new, my car cost around $300 in excise tax; the second 
year it was around $200; in its third year it will be less still). 

These costs aside, petrol is still around $1.20 a gallon (15 cents higher
than a couple of weeks ago, thanks to tax increases and Iraqi action). 

John

    >These costs aside, petrol is still around $1.20 a gallon
    
    Remember that one US gallon has only 3.78532 liters (litres) whereas one
    Imperial gallon has 4.54596 litres.  So gasoline is US$1.20 per gallon
    but petrol is actually $1.44 per gallon.
    
    Ha, ha, I love it.  :-) :-) :-)
    
    -=Chong=-

Another thing to keep in mind about insurance is glass coverage.  In Mass
the glass is covered automatically, but in NH it's covered under the
comprehensive part.  We got caught out because we had the deductable on
the comp part at $250 (thinking it covered only fire and theft), but
when a windshield broke we ended up paying for the whole thing since the
total bill was $160.  We then lowered the ded to $50.....

Again, it varies state to state.

One good thing about the insurance over here, they don't delve into what
you've done to your car.  They very rarely (if ever) want to see the car
and base the fee on the car as delivered.  You can do all sorts of performance
mods and your insurance will not be any higher, until you start getting
speeding tickets of course....

I've had my rally car insured for 4 years and all the insurance company knows
is that it's an '83 Rabbit GTI.  Of course, I haven't made any claims against 
it either....

Dave

By now you are probably totally confused. Don't dispair, we are too
and we live here.

1. Buy car - pay dealer more than the car is worth
2. In some states (MA being one) - pay sales tax (5% in MA, within 30 days)
3. Insure car - price/need/coverage vary between state/county/town
4. Register car - price/frequency/difficutly vary between state/county/town
5. Inspect car - price/frequency/conformity vary between state/county/town
6. Excise tax - see above (in MA the rate is 2.5% of a pre-determined value
                           based on the original factory cost, the year, the
                           phase of the moon and how much the politicians are
                           trying to raise at any given moment)

re: license

We have UK friends visiting us right now. They got a rental car at Logan
Airport in Boston last Monday. Only requirement was UK license (and $$$).

If you plan to come to the USA, buy a car, and tour around, my advise would be
to come in through Florida.  Find someone in Florida who will let you use their
home as a home base while you are in the States.  You need the 'permanent'
address.  Purchase the car, visit an insurance agent and buy a 6 month policy
for about $250, go to the DMV to pay the tax (7%) and get the tag (about $30),
and off you go. There is no excise tax, no inspection and no check to see if
you have a license.  If you find you need to have a Florida license,
appointments for driver's tests are usually made for the next day.  You may be
able to get by with your UK license.  The more rural your Florida friend is,
the less your insurance will be.  Another benefit to registering in Florida is
that the used cars there all have airconditioning, most are free of rust, and
you can pick up a 'grandfather special' (4-doors, V-8, low mileage) for little
money since there are so many of them. 

Jim 

Why not get an *International Driver's License*.  That should definitely cover
you for 6 months in the US.

-Al

re: .18

When I went to Florida for a vacation a few years back I went to the trouble
of getting an International Driving License. When I went to hire a car, they
asked for my license, I gave them the international one, and they said "what's
this?". They'd never seen one before and wouldn't accept it. It turns out that
an International License is no more than an "official translation" into several
different languages and is only valid when accompanied by your real driving
license. They accepted my UK license eventually (they weren't too sure about
it since it didn't have a photo).

I should add that this was a cheap car rental company (their name was 
Rent-A-Wreck, but we had a beautiful old Ford LTD for a fraction of the cost
that Hertz/Avis etc would have charged us for a group A). The larger car
rental companies accept UK licenses no problem.

You can get a US license without taking a (US) test. But that's another story!

Colin.

>You can get a US license without taking a (US) test. But that's another story!

Only in New Hampshire I belive. In Massachusetts and elsewhere you will have
to take the test, which is far less of an ordeal than a European test.

John

    In New Hampshire you must do a full test - that's if they let you
    make an appointment. My last application was rejected because I said
    my weight was 11.5 stone and they said they'd never heard of stones
    and required it in pounds!. I thought the equation 14lb = 1 stone was 
    universal (in countries using the Imperial measures system) but obviously 
    not.
    
    I normally do weights/measures in kilogrammes etc. so going back to
    imperial measures is a real pain. Maybe I should just have used
    the metric system and pleaded ignorance of any other.
    
    I've now had two applications for driving test appointments rejected
    (the first because I hadn't got a SS no.) so I've given up.
    
    Keith_who'll_never_have_a_US_driving_license

>    In New Hampshire you must do a full test - that's if they let you
>    make an appointment. My last application was rejected because I said
 
The situation a year or so ago in NH was that UK license holders didn't have 
to take a full test. Has this changed? Mass., on the other hand, makes you sit 
a "full" test (lasted less than 5 minutes for me though).

John

    Re. .21 & .22
    
    When I asked two years ago, they said you only needs to do an eye test
    if you already has a license from another country.  You still need
    to make an appointment for that though.
    
    >they said they'd never heard of stones
    
    That's pretty pathetic.  It isn't used much over here but they should
    at least have heard of it.  They should be sent back to primary school.
    
    -=Chong=-

    
    I  moved to NH from Ireland about 5 months ago. While an International
    drivers license was useful as picture i.d. it wasn't really necessary.
    Getting one is a formality though so it's probably worthwhile.
    
    I believe the law in NH is that you can drive for 3 months before
    having to get a local license.  After that, the test is mandatory (and
    easy). An eye test, 20 multiple choice questions ( 80% to pass) and a 
    5 minute road test.
    
    I bought a car before I did the test and my Irish drivers license was
    sufficient to obtain insurance. I also used it to rent several
    cars/vans without any problem.
    
    Marty
                                  

    I went on a fly drive holiday to florida a few weeks ago and I left my
    Uk license at home , however I was able to use the hire car once the
    tour rep. had generated a license for me from my date of birth and
    surname for the hire form . Once I got the hotel I phoned home and got
    a copy of license faxed to the hotel, which I was told would satisfy
    the police if I got pulled for anything .
    
    
    
                                  KR