Conference terri::cars_uk

>>             <<< Note 1122.1 by IOSG::MARSHALL "Argle Bargle IV" >>>
>>            -< Re .-1 (well, not much else it could be I suppose!) >-

On point (c), increasing the limit would frighten a lot of people off the
motorway.  You would then be forced to offer those people reduced road tax,
as they are being excluded from some of the public roads.  
    
    
    Utter crap! There are already motorists EXPLICITLY excluded from the
    motorway, THEY don't get offered a discount!. People will not get
    frightened off using the motorways, they will quite happily continue
    using them in the knowledge that they are brilliant drivers and can mix
    it with the fast boys!. 
    
    You're other reasons for not raising the limit (handling, standard of
    driving) are more sensible, continue with them, but this idea's a
    looser from the start.
    
    Richard

    Ha! - you must have fooled them into thinking you were a fine upstanding
    
    member of the community - I assume you had the family in the car at the
    
    time. You were lucky it wasn't the Met police, they don't take
    
    prisoners (or give warnings), as my license still shows.
    
    Jeff K.
    
    PS When are you going to get a decent car?
              

    A very similar thing happened to me one night while travelling back
    to my girlfriend's house late one sunday evening. I was travelling
    on the outskirts of Abingdon in my Astra Gte through a forty MPH 
    speed limit, not concentrating fully as I was talking to my 
    girlfriend while driving.
    
    I hadn't even seen the blue light flash until I entered into her
    estate, wherby I pulled over immediately. Two policemen jumped out
    of their car (one old, one much younger). I talked mainly to the
    older Policeman who was very fair and informed me that I was travelling
    over 60 MPH through the 40 speed limit. As I am only 21 and was
    driving at 12-00 at night I really should have known better. 
    
    I was very impressed by the way that the older policeman treated
    me, rather than just talking down to me, he tried to make me realise
    the danger of not concentrating fully while driving, saying things
    like "well you've got a smashing car, you really don't want anything
    silly to happen to it and what about your passengers ? You were
    endangering their lives too."  He also just talked to me about 
    the car, you know the normal things how long have you had it, 
    whats the fuel consumption like ?
    
    The younger policeman on the other hand appeared to be quite harsh,
    telling me that I could loose 4 points for driving like that or
    get a heavy fine. (I felt as though he was trying to almost rub
    it in that I had not been concentrating). All while checking the
    car over.  For which the older policeman corrected him on, 
    apparently it's 3 points.                                
                                             
    They let me go with a verbal warning.
    
    Jon
    
    
                    
    

    Does everyone in this day and age think rules are made - just to be
    broken.   Have a care for others - some of us want to draw our
    retirement pension.
    

I believe invalid carriages, small cc mopeds, etc, that are banned from
motorways do pay less "road fund licence" than an ordinary car.
Additions / corrections welcome.

As regards the high speeds not putting people off, I'm glad you (and obviously
everyone you know) are so confident.  I can think of several people who would
not use motorways if 100mph was the norm.

Note also that a lot of cars (note that I don't mean makes of car here;
I mean number of cars on the road) can't comfortably sustain much above 80mph
anyway.

Plus there are a lot of HGVs that can't safely go much faster than 60...

How about maximum and minimum speed limits for each lane?  That would make it
easier for people to stay in a lane at a speed they found comfortable, and
may also help lane discipline.

But getting back to policemen...

Last week in Ascot there was LOTS of traffic
, and lots of traffic police.  They
were trying their best, I suppose, but were somewhat biased...

There were coaches and RR and Daimlers blocking up the roads all over the place,
with police bowing and scraping in deference to anyone in a top hat.  One
driver, a commuter on his way home I think, did a U turn on a road where U turns
are allowed, and happen all year round.  He did it perfectly safely, just to
take a different, less congested way home.  Several policemen descended upon him
and castigated him at length for such a dangerous manouevre...

There were then two large cars arguing over a parking space, totally blocking
the carriageway.  The car behind tooted, and the two large cars then both drove
away.  The car that had tooted (again, a local*) was pulled over and the driver
told off for impatience and goodness knows what else...

*: you can tell a local in Ascot week because:
  - they aren't drunk
  - they are dressed sensibly
  - they haven't just lost all their money gambling
  - they don't go anywhere near the racecourse
  - they get hassled by the police

Scott

    
    I live opposite a small coach yard.
    
    I arrived home Thursday night to see a very badly damaged coach being
    towed into the coach yard.
    
    Talking to the driver it transpires he was driving along the one of the
    local lanes when he was hit by a car coming in the opposite direction.
    The car, a Peugeot GTi, was being driven very quckly through the lanes
    - police measurement of skid marks etc. indicate in excess of 70 mph.
    The driver of the coach was uninjured, not so the driver of the GTi -
    it took the emergency services in excess of an hour and a half to cut
    him free.
    
    I make no comment as to the rights or the wrongs. I simply comment that
    how ever wonderful a driver you are do you always drive expecting a
    coach, a parked car or whatever coming in the opposite direction ??.
    If so, would you be able to stop safely ??. However good the piece of
    machinery you are driving how good are you ??
    
    Rich
     
    

    re - .0
    Re : police being leniant ?  more like not doing there job properly.
    
    You were breaking the law,a law which was created to ensure the
    safety of you and other motorists.
    
    If you feel that you have the ability to cope with speeds in excess of the
    agreed speed limits,that your car is capable of sustaining these
    speeds safely then so be it.Just remember,your car is as prone to
    mechanical breakdowns as other cars on the road,how many more lives
    are you going to take driving at 90+ mph? how much longer is it
    going to take you to stop at this speed? how much less of a chance
    have you got of recovering from a puncture ?
    
                 GO DRIVE ON THE RACE TRACK     
    
    and leave the motorways to people who have some respect for their own 
    lives and the lives of others...I acknowledge the fact that there are 
    others on the motorway who break the law,but please,don't try and use 
    your own example as an excuse to open a 'lets raise the limit to
    100mph' argument.
    
    Take the bus...
                              Huw...

Re: .7 
      
>   how ever wonderful a driver you are do you always drive expecting a
>   coach, a parked car or whatever coming in the opposite direction ??.
    
    I would be somewhat concerned if a "parked car" was coming at me
    from the opposite direction, no matter what speed i was doing!!
    
    mb
    
    p.s.
    
    Why not stop arguing and bring back the man in front waving a red
    flag ... that will reduce both accidents and unemployment!!!!
    

    RE LAST
    
    What planet ???? is the question.... Simple rules of physics my
    dear boy... 90mph - 70 mph = 20 mph ...
    
    I'll quite willingly stand in the road faced with traffic travelling
    at 0mph...I will then invite you to stand in front of my car whilst
    I attempt to inflict damage at 20 mph..
    
    We wil then let a qualified doctor perform an after test diagnosis,
    I am quite willing to wager half of my salary that the outcome of
    the diagnosis will be ..
    
                  Mr.Price : injuries 0
                  Mr.an extra 20mph doesn't make any
                     difference..HOSITALISED.
    
    just another point before you get into reply mode...did I ever
    state that I feel unsafe at the speed limit+ ?
                     
    No.2 in the go take a bus category..
                                     
                                    Regards,
                                             Huw....

    
    OK, OK, there's no need for anyone to start getting all hot under the
    collar. 
    
    I did not put the note in to be blase (how do you get those funny 'e'
    things), or to call the law an ass. It was to show that good traffic
    police are not those who go around booking people for being 1 mph over
    the limit, but those who actually look at the conditions and
    circumstances and take more than just the written law into account.
    
    I have felt far more nervous travelling as a passenger at 60mph on a
    motorway, with a vehicular moron behind the wheel, than at 130+ with an
    experienced and highly skilled ex-police driver at the controls.
    
    As for some of the more self-righteous replies that have appeared then
    I wonder if they are truly interested in road safety or just ruffled
    because they have been booked for doing 40 in a 30 limit (which in my
    opinion can be far far more dangerous than driving at 100mph on a
    motorway).
    
    The guy in the Peugot that argued with a bus was definitely out of
    order doing 70mph down a country lane (it's fun but dangerous) but I
    was not driving down a country lane - I was on a 3 lane motorway in
    broad daylight, dry road surface and a general traffic flow of
    70-80mph. I did not display aggression in my driving and people in the
    outside lane moved over smoothly long before I got close to them (it
    must be something they do in Wales - I wish more people had better
    lane discipline). The officers actually commented that my driving style
    was very good and I am sure that this helped in the final decision.
    
    I class this situation not as suggested - the police not doing their
    job - but as the police actually doing their job extremely well. If
    they had chosen to charge me then I wouldn't have complained or swore
    about it, in the eyes of the law I was guilty. But these guys actually
    had a lot of common sense and applied it. I thanked them at the time
    and I still thank them - if only we had more like them.
    
    Lets keep the roads safe - that doesn't mean all crawling around like
    snails. I would prefer to ban the 20mph, dithering, nervous,
    unobservant prats, who I am sure most of us have encountered travelling
    along the public highways waiting to cause an accident.
    
    Let the fast go fast and the snails stay in their shells - the only
    solution to avoid traffic jams!!!
    
    Gary.
    

    Hmmm....
    
    Once upon a time, not so long ago... A bloke used to walk in front of
    cars with a red flag.  I believe this was to ensure that (a) the car
    didn't exceed the **safe** speed limit (B) warn other road users of the
    cars approach.  But times progress the cars we drive also progress.  The
    people who today say that 50mph or 100mph is tooooooooo fast could step
    back in front with the red flag.
    
    A ton of metal travelling at 10mph will kill you.!!!!!! just as surely
    as it would travelling at 100mph.
    
    The difference betwen 70mph and 90mph is a crap argument.  If you
    really believe that you are more likely to get killed by being hit by a
    car travelling at 90mph than a car travelling at 70mph.  It sounds like
    your doctors diagnosis is too late for you.
    
    As has already been stated speed does not kill.  Bad driving does. 
    booking people will not save life !! education might...
    
    IMHO the policeman who spoke to.0 was correct !! and if you believe
    that booking or banning him would stop you travelling above the LEGAL
    limit everytime you step into your car.  You must be the biggest saint
    on the road.  Or practising what you preach, I would suspect that you
    have already asked the garage to fit a rev limiter onto your
    pope-mobile. 
    
    
    
    Regards
    
    Bruce

    I think thatthe last couple of replies are sensible, but I believe we
    have to draw out a difference betwwen motorways and non-motorways.
    
    If I'm passed by some chap doing 120 on an M-way - I couldn't care
    less, good luck to him.
    
    If I'm passed in a 30 zone by someone doing 60, or have someone driving
    up my backside on an A road because I dare to stick to 60ish, then I
    think I have a right to get a little p****d off ( right no. of * this
    time!!).
    
    I think that these last examples are due to bad driving...not the speed
    in itself.
    
    Mikef

	Hmm, well .1 certainly caused a few sparks to fly, thought I'd drifted
	into a post race FISA meeting !

	Well I have to agree to with the general feeling that speeding isn't
	yet a hangable offence. The outcome of getting nabbed over here doing 
	90 m.p.h. on a motorway will, most of the time, depend what the police
	thought of your driving at the time, and how polite you are.

	But this is an evergreen rathole, and there will, and always have been
	arguments on what exactly is a "safe" limit and how strictly the police
	should and do enforce it.

	For motorways I personally come out in favour of no limit, as on the
	majority of autobahns. I have driven many times on autobahns and have
	not found it terrifying to have Porsches ( probably Colin !) et al,
	overtaking at considerable speed. If your driving *properly*, i.e 
	taking into account road conditions, traffic in front and more to the
	point behind, junctions , bridges where side winds can effect stability
	etc. and other hazards fast and safe progress can be made. It would be
	interesting if anyone can come up with any statistics regarding the
	number of accidents on autobahns in relation to volume of traffic etc.
	compared to British motorways. I normally travel between 180 k.p.h and
	200 k.p.h. when on the autobahn, where conditions, weather etc. allow
	and I've always felt safe. 

	If people don't feel safe travelling at more than 70 m.p.h then 
	there are still A roads, or the bus. 
	
	Gordon

    Lets not forget that 70mph is still very fast, and if people don't
    want to drivfaster than 70, that is no reason to persecute them.
    
    Mikef

    Re the Welsh section of the M4.  A week and a half ago I was driving
    up there, what did we see???  What looked like two cars very close
    together, given that they were doing 90+, we assummed they were
    attempting some prank or other.  When I actually came to pass them
    going up a hill, I discovered that the back one was in fact on tow,
    on a rope, no notice, no nothing until you got along side them.
    
    Now, the police on that stretch of the M4 are rather renoune for 
    trapping the most speeding motorists, but what about people like
    this who in my mind are a far greater danger.
    
    Helen.

    Trying hard to get back to the original topic ...
      
    I too agree that many traffic police are "not bad", giving people
    a "ticking off" rather than a "ticket". I am sure that we have heard
    loads of stories where the driver was let off (many in this conference)
      
    Usually it seems that if a patrol car just happens to see you driving
    fast, and if the officer didn't have a bust-up with his wife that morning,
    they may just have a little chat - during which they probably check
    that the car isn't stolen, you are not drunk etc. So long as you
    pass the "tests", off you go - driving far more carefully for several
    hours or weeks of whatever, depending on the severity of the chat.
    Indeed, many times the police don't even stop you - i bet that all
    of us can recall times when we were driving briskly only to pass
    a police car, miss a couple of heartbeats and carry on. Many more
    times we didn't even see that police car.
      
    If, however, you are stopped by police specifically engaged in trapping
    speeding drivers - thats it, you are booked, no matter how safely
    you are driving, what the conditions are etc.
      
    Unfortunately the former type of policing is easy to spot, as they
    tend to follow you for a while first. The latter is cloak and dagger
    style, and by the time you know then it is too late!
      
    mb

The police don't just ask questions to be polite, they may be trying to
ascertain if the car is yours.  For example, "Shame about the scratch on the
door, Sir".  If you own the car, you're likely to say "What scratch, I didn't
see one this morning", if you don't you may decide to play it cool and pretend
that you know about it.  Of course, there may not be a scratch at all.


Now for my say, he says, sliding the soapbox out from under the desk...

I would be in favour of raising speed limits on motorways, but only if drivers
were better trained and, more importantly, better behaved.  90mph in the
outside lane, reading the newspaper 6' from the car in front is obscene.  90mph
with good observation and positioning is not a problem.

Dave

    Just read through this and it seems everyone is saying 
    
    "Go faster on the race track".
    
    Well we *all* speed, INCLUDING YOU Huw so please cut down on the
    preaching.

I certainly don't break the speed limit on motor ways or dual carrage ways.

In a 30 limit, if the road is very clear I might edge up to 35/40. But on 
the higher speed roads... absolutly never.

Simon

    
              <<< Note 1122.23 by PUGH::FRENCHS "G6ZTZ and by" >>>
                                  -< I don't >-
    
    
    Shouldn't that read - "I can't" ..... :-)

    
    I wouldn't be too proud of your restraint, Simon. 30 limits are
    generally acknowledged as the worst place to speed; and 40 in a
    30mph limit can be thought of as equivalent to over 90 on a dual
    carriageway...
    
    Hope it makes you think.
    
    William.

    
    There have been some very interesting replies in this note, but
    I think you all missed one important issue "The Driving Test!!"
    When I did mine, the nearest I got to a motorway type road was a
    30 second spin down a two lane 'A' road! The consequences I'm sure
    I don't have to spell out, the full test only lasted 20 minutes!
    
    I think if more time was spent in educating learners, such a two
    part test (similar to a bike test) first being on urban roads ,ie,
    similar to the current test, and the second part on motorway driving.
    This would produce a more efficient driver, this would decrease
    accidents and thus an increase in speed limits could then be incorporated.
    
    Stewart.                                                             
    
    
    
    

	A very good point Stewart ! This has been discussed before and "most"
	people here would like to see some kind of multi-carriageway practice
	as compulsory part of driving school tuition and as part of the test.

	I really can't see any valid argument against learners, with a qualified
	instructor ONLY, using motorways. They do in Holland, as a required part
	of their training and as part of their test.

	Gordon
    
	And no comments about Dutch driving please !!!

    To keep this topic on track, please use 1123.* to discuss the pro's
    and con's of Motorways, their purpose, use and abuse!
    
    mb

    Ah-hem, sorry what was the topic again ?

In real terms 35 in a 30 area limit is the same as 75 on the motorway. Not 90
as you put it. The difference between 30 - 40 and 70 - 90 is  double, ie 
10 mph - 20 mhp

Elain understands my situation perfectly. I am unable to do more that 40 MPH as
I have a broken overdrive.

The whole of my note is in a light hearted tone. In truth my average speed in 
30 MPH areas will be about 25. That is due to the acceleration being better 
only to snails and reliant robins.

The only times I do go over 30/35 is when I overtake  ;-)

    
    As my Mother-in-Law once asked of one of my ancient wrecks....
    
      Is this car capable of breaking the speed limit?  
    
    And after I'd offered her a lift too.....  :-)
    

    In the not-too-distant past, I have actually been encouraged to exceed
    the speed limit. It happened in Thatcham; I was already driving 'around'
    the 30 mph speed when I approached a policeman doing traffic duty after
    an accident.

    I've never seen arms move quite like that since. He was franticly trying
    (and succeeding, in my opinion) to get the traffic moving to clear the
    backlog. I ended up travelling 'in the region' of 40 mph through the
    village.

    Martin.

	Talking of policemen, I have a couple of friends in the Suffolk CID,
	and the other day had the pleasure of being driven by one of them in
	some form of Japanese 16 valve intercontinental ballistic missile along
	Suffolk country roads at speeds in excess of 80mph while he was
	demonstrating the driving techniques the police had taught him.

	While it was being explained to me that you aimed at the "v" in the
	road (the point in the distance where the two sides appear to meet)
	and depending on how far away it was you either accelerated or braked,
	I thought of pointing out the possibility, however small, of someone
	coming in the other direction or pulling out from a side road, but
	couldn't seem to find the energy for anything except from prayer...

	The police, I believe, are in favour of higher speed limits on
	motorways. Who are we to disagree with this responsible body of
	highly trained drivers?

	I, of course, never, ever, ever, break the speed limit. ;-)

	Jonathan.

    I went on one of these Police Better driving courses, a couple of years
    back & found that most of these traffic Cops are quite flexible if your
    appologetic and you werent driving like a `intercontinental ballistic
    missile' ie blasting your way through traffic..
    I am now also a member of the IAM (Insitute of Advance Motorists) they
    also think in CERTAIN places that the speed limit should be raised.
    On a last point its not the car that you drive its the way that you
    drive it... My Panda can, and often does leave people wondering how did
    he overtake then. Its called reading the road the `V' format.. Then you
    can use what power you have.
    I also think that the driving test should have changed YEARS ago. IAM
    RSOPA  standards are more acceptable on todays busy roads.
    
    Cheers,
    Stu.
      

	Remember when you're doing these speeds that we are getting more and
	more foreign visitors who may not have gone through test as stringent
	as our own, and also may not know our highway code or laws.

	They may not act they way you expect.

	I took a full driving test whilst in the states. It was in three parts:

	1. a 20 question and answer - multiple choice. I had the choice of 
	three answers to each question. I had to get 17 correct. I had 20.
	Most of the answers were so strange, they couldn't possible be correct.

	2.There was an eyesight test, which involved saying whether a sign was
	round or tri-angular - I did this without my prescription glasses, which
	I need to pass the "read a number plate at 25 yards" here.  
	I passed without my glasses - well, I had a 50-50 chance, If I was 
	incorrect, I could have tried again with my glasses on.

	3. The driving test. I had to drive my car in a carpark, 3-point turn 
	where indicated, park between two sticks that were far enough for a 
	truck to park between (I was in a Rabbit (VW)), and stop at a stop sign
	 - in the carpark. I did this in an automatic.

	I did not even go in the road, or meet any other traffic.

	I passed an was issued with a full US Licence - Maryland.

	I could legally have come here and driven on our roads, in a manual 
	car, without my glasses, and be unaware I was a hazzard.
	
	So be very careful out there - going speeds of more than 70 could
	be more dangerous than you think.

	Heather

	PS, on the other hand, you could be on the same strech of road as my mum
	- but that's another story!

    re -1
    
    explain this "V" technique ?

	Re -1

	See 1122.33, para 2...

	Or alternatively join the IAM ;-)

	Jonathan.

Surely (yes I know that isn't your name) is should not be a V but  ^ 
or even /\.


Simon Le Pedant.

    Thanks for the rectification... For those how dont no what the /\
    symbol signifies, I will endeavour to explain..
    Picture your self driving down a long (very long) straight road. It
    will eventually `look' as if both sides of the road meet. hence the /\
    sign. To use this process correctly you should be paying attention to
    what is happening down the course of the road.. NOT 20 foot in front of
    your bonnet. (for those of you in metric 50 meters will do..)
    
    IAM - Inistute of Advance Motorists, All of this is explained by them.
    I have details if required.
    
    Stu.   

    re: .39
    
>                                             NOT 20 foot in front of
>   your bonnet. (for those of you in metric 50 meters will do..)
    
    They obviously don't teach you conversion factors at the IAM :-)

    Re a few back.
    
    Having passed all these advanced driving tests doesn`t immediatly make
    you a superior being behind the wheel!! A couple of months back two
    traffic cops wiped themselves out and comatosed a British Telecom
    engineer by overtaking at excessive speeds on a "blind" bend. I travel
    this road all the time and have been known to pull a few crazy stunts
    while driving, but i would never overtake at that point. The policemen 
    involved were not in "hot pursuit" or were they off to an emergency. It
    appears to me that they were just playing at silly buggers. So it just
    goes to show that even these so called professional drivers can be just
    as stupid as those of us who haven`t had IAM, ROSPA..etc courses.
    
    				Ian.

    
        
    All this shows is that fully trained professionals can make fatal
    mistakes. It doesn't say anything about their general level of ability,
    or the benefits of training. If you're feeling smug because you've got
    away with all your crazy stunts, and they didn't, then I'd suggest you
    might benefit from some advanced tuition (but I don't think it would
    turn you into a superior being behind the wheel).
    
    Bill.

    Driving in this morning on the M27, I saw a Police car which indicated
    to the driver of a boring brown Orion that he should pull over.
    
    This car was not breaking the speed limit at the time, since it
    was at the back of a 'block' of cars (all doing close to 70mph
    since they had all seen the cop car).
    
    One thing that this driver was doing wrong (IMO) was that he was
    driving *much* too close to the car in front.  I like to think that
    this is the reason that he was stopped...
    
    
    Another reason could have been that the Police were playing 'snooker'
    and had decided to 'pot the brown' - perhaps there weren't any
    cars with colours of a higher value, such as black or pink !
    
    If so, I could have been next in line if the pot was 'successful',
    as I was in a red car, making me a target for the single point
    required before going for another colour.  I didn't wait around to see :-)
    
    J.R.

    
    Being stopped for no reason...
    
    I've been stopped twice over the last two weeks - once in London
    and once in Byfleet - and on both occaisions plod's first words
    were "This is just a routine check, Sir". Then it was the usual
    document checking, drink questions etc... and no time did they
    suggest I'd done anything wrong. Both times they kept me 
    hanging around for about five mins and then let me go.
    
    Am I being picked on? Is this a police state? Can I tell 'em to
    indulge in sex and travel simultaneously? 
    
    Richard.

>>    Being stopped for no reason...
    
    What colour car ?
    
    Maybe they were indulging in a game of 'snooker', in competition
    with some other cop on the radio.  They get a 'pot' if they find
    anything that they can do you for...  So I've heard.
    
    J.R.

	Is this a police state?  Possibly, the police can *always* think of an
	excuse to stop you.  (Are your rear lights working, sir?)  As for who
	and when they stop, well, there can be many reasons from boredom to
	predjudice (and somewhere inbetween, doing their job).

	This "snooker" thing has me wondering, I've not yet asked any of my
	policemen friends if it is true...

	Dave

    I didn't realise policemen had any friends!!! ;-)

    About being stopped for no reason.
    
    I asked a plod about this a while back. He said that he could always
    stop a motorist on the basis that he wanted to check out their driving
    license.
    
    I find it surprising that they would stop someone for absolutely no
    reason at all as the earlier note suggested.
    
    Roy

The sort of policemen I like are the sort who are careless about hiding their
car when setting a radar trap :-)


Yesterday....tail end of car with pretty orange strip sitting where no car
*ever* sits.....over the brow of the hill...policeman standing on the 
opposite side of the road to the car with a radar gun....


hehehe...he's definitely not going to catch the halfway observant :-)

re.48:

I suppose that if you are on the wrong side of the law you would not realise
that members of the Police force do indeed have friends. Your name is noted.

/Dave.

    Ooops looks like you could be having your collar felt :^/
    
    I can give you the lend of my radar detector, if you think it will help
    :-)
    
    Gary.

Re: .53


Well usually they aren't concerned at all with anything but 

"EXCEEDING THE SPEEDLIMIT"

nothing to do with whether it was dangerous or not...so usually they are more
careful about keeping their rather obvious cars out of sight.

    Regarding the Police playing snooker, does this mean that I'm safe as I
    have a white car and that would be considered a foul???????????

    
    We'll be ok as long as we don't end up in a hole! :^)
    
    Mark

re.55:

No, as there are not many pink cars about, it's been agreed that white cars
can be pocketed and pink points apply.

/Dave.

    re: .57
    
    Wrong
    
    Pink and black have been "swapped"...eg: black 6 points, pink 7
    
    Paul

But there are lots of "pink" cars on the road...


all those Fords that came in that "bronze" colour that fade to pink :-)