Conference terri::cars_uk

    I really hope it doesn't get vandalised  ;-)
    

    
    Just on a side note. Over here, in Geneva they have flasher boxes
    which take your photo if you are going too fast. This enables the
    police to get on with proper work (maybe this is why it is one of
    the safest cities!), but in England, the police spend so much time
    with traffic, that you often end up saying 'Why can't they do some-
    thing more worthwhile with their time'.
    
    I welcome these in Geneva, but if they were manned the above concept
    would be pointless.
    
    Lewis.
    
    PS. I believe all the speed box locations have to be announced each
    year in the paper. Ok, they don't catch many 'regulars' but at least
    it gets the speed down!

>>
    which take your photo if you are going too fast. This enables the
    police to get on with proper work (maybe this is why it is one of
    the safest cities!), but in England, the police spend so much time
    with traffic, that you often end up saying 'Why can't they do some-
    thing more worthwhile with their time'.
>>
    The reason they can't _just_  use photos in the UK is that they cannot
    convict without a police officer (or two?) witnessing the offence,
    although I believe photo's can be used as corroborative evidence, eg in
    the event of an accident when someone has 'jumped' the lights. There
    are quite a few police forces experimenting with various photo
    techniques, with a view to trying to get it accepted as evidence.
    
    It looked like there was a camera being put on a pole on London Rd, (in
    Reading) at the crossroads (don't know the name of the other road) just
    before you come up the hill to the roundabout at the top of
    Basingstoke rd  - is everybody lost? :-) or can someone supply the name
    of the other road?
    

    I think you'll find that's a "Jumping red lights" camera, and the
    junction is London Road and London St. (I think!!).
    
    There's one at the bottom of Southampton St. too.

    Re a couple back and speeding...
    
    Last year when there were loads of roadworks on the westbound 
    carriage way of the M3 between junctions 4 and 5 I think, there was
    a speed restriction of 50.  I was under the impression (I can't remember
    where this idea came from) that if you broke the speed limit more than
    once the registered owner of the vehicle which was speeding was sent
    a letter by DVLC.  I'm not too sure what the consequences of this were
    though.
    
    The other point is that if you regularly drive a section of road,
    breaking the speed limit and there happens to be some form of speed
    detection thing there, it has been know for the black suited people
    to await your arrival at the specified time, even if you are driving
    safely, if breaking the speed limit it can be rather costly.
    
    Helen.

    Re .5
     	That is correct, there were definitely cases of persons being
    photographed/filmed speeding and getting the summons/FPN in the
    post some time later with no contact from a police occifer.
    
    

    They had some cameras on the M62 where the roadworks were, and I heard
    many stories of people receiving letters etc.
    
    What's even more sneaky is they've left the cameras there...now I
    wonder if they are still operational??
    
    
    Greg
    

If they really did record, in some way, all the people speeding through 
roadworks there is a lot of hope for near empty roads in the near future!

Dave.

    Re .0
    
    The A303 Ilminster bypass is a ridiculous stretch of concreted single
    carriageway with strictly (at times) enforced 60mph.  
    
    Warning to fellow drivers on this stretch of the road:
    
    Never exceed 60 here - you are asking for trouble ....
    

    ditto the Aldershot Rd in Fleet (Hants)
    
    Rich (+ my brother + several friends)  :-(
    
    ESPECIALLY ON A SUNDAY !

Re: .9

>    Warning to fellow drivers on this stretch of the road:
>
>    Never exceed 60 here - you are asking for trouble ....

    You ain't kidding!! That stretch of the A303 is just about the worst
    blackspot it has. The police are not just playing games here, they are
    trying to save lives.

    To add to the advice, just bite your tongue and hang in behind Granny
    driving at 59 MPH, you'll be driving slower than you like but you'll be
    a lot less dead than you'd want to be...

    	Ian.

    Re .9, .11 - Ilminster bypass.
    
       It's not neccessarily Granny doing 59mph. It could be me!

       This is a riduculous piece of highway. It has an appalling death
       toll due to the fact that it is a *very* wide single carriageway
       that practically encourages head on collisions down the middle.

       The solution is self evident - make it slightly wider and turn it
       into a dual carriageway. Why don't they do it?

       Ian.

	There are >10 cameras situated along the roadworks on the A33
	between the M3 and M27. I wonder if these are for use of the
	Police to trap speeders, or by the building contractors to
	oversee work in progress.

	p1

Does anyone know what type of evidence is required to be convicted for speeding.

OK a radar gun is a definite you were doing 30 over the limit no questions 
asked device. BUT what about driving down the road with a police car behind 
doing 40 in a 30 limit. How is this proved in court. Would the statement from 
the police be enough ??.

Dave 

...claiming the police car's speedo was incorrectly calibrated?

But if you can't prove it, I suspect their word would do.  After all, it's only
their word that says the radar thingy clocked you doing xxx MPH.

    It *used* to be ......
    
    The evidence of two witnesses is required. However, one police officer
    plus a recognised device, e.g. Radar gun, Calibrated speedometer, Stop
    Watch, can and does counts as two witnesses........
    
    someone else may update/contradict this.....

    Traffic patrols are required to (and do) calibrate their speedometers
    on a daily basis. They usually use a set piece of road for this. This
    includes Motorcycles.
    
    Please note this is not the vehicles normal speedometer, but a device
    added to the dashboard by the police transport people, and can be
    finely adjusted using both selections of gear wheels, and a
    micrometer(?) type adjustment

    Have you been a naughty boy Dave?
    
    Ray.

Yes, I got stopped.

I was told that as there was only the driver of the police car in the vehicle 
at the time that no action would be taken. BUT, if there had been another 
officer present I would have been booked.

What about your 2 bookings then Ray.

Another case of "Nearly".... A friend of mine recently got `done' for doing 92
MPH down the M4....Well the nice police man told him that was his average 
speed over the last 6 miles.  The fact the my friend was doing 50mph for
the last 2 miles..........


It fact the police man was a real joker.... for a start the police car you 
unmarked my Friend was testing his new Astra GTI 16V montser,  traveling
at top speed 120+ ish... When he was stopped the policeman told him that he
was being booked for travelling at 92 mph.  The cop then said


"You can say its a fair cop if you like"

and my friend replyed


"It's a fair cop" :-))))))

He is just very happy he still has his licence... So I guess thier not that 
bad.


		Mike..

    Following plods must clock you for at least 3/10ths of a mile. Thus
    the true offence should be driving without due care and attention,
    as you should spot a marked car in your mirror.
    
    Unmarked cars are cheating, though.
    
    Steve

    I am sure this has been discussed somewhere else before, but why are we
    paying for the police to waste resources catching over speeding
    motorists, when there are hi tech devices to do the job, used all
    round the world,...sorry, antiquated laws which prevent the evidence
    from the hi tec devices being accepted as evidence in court?
    
    Eddie

re.21:

>    Following plods must clock you for at least 3/10ths of a mile. Thus
>    the true offence should be driving without due care and attention,
>    as you should spot a marked car in your mirror.
    
@120mph that's about 9 seconds. How often do you look in your mirror?

Dave :-)

    All the time - I have to monitor my appearance - got to look my
    best you know.
    
    Steve:-}

    re    120mph but only warned for 92mph
    
    
    never did trust them lcd thingies !   ;-)

    Do any other countries have a points system for speeding that can
    lead to a ban, or do they rely on heavy fines to deter speeding?
    
    Nigel.                                                          

    The speed box's in Geneva, just ends up with a fine, getting heftier
    and heftier (i think its 1st time normal, 2nd time double, 3rd time
    treble), and with the 3rd one you get a temp ban aswell.
    
    The cost is also determined by how fast you were going!
    
    But if i'm wrong someone please correct me!
    
    Lewis. (Still sweating every time he crosses the border).

    
    If you have a look in Euro_motoring ( a quick plug there), you will
    find details of how the speeding fines work in Geneva.  
    
    Suffice it to say that it is *&^%$ expensive. (though no personal
    experience (yet) )
    
    But it's ok Lewis, i should think they'll just stop you to ask you
    to get a move on and not to hold the traffic up... :-)
    
    Nigel
    

>>      <<< Note 1091.28 by RUTILE::GUEST "Please don't try to log in..." >>>

    
>>    If you have a look in Euro_motoring ( a quick plug there), you will
>>    find details of how the speeding fines work in Geneva.  
    
    
    
    Ahem!, apologies to all, but TIMMII, the node serving Euro_motoring has
    a problem which means it's currently down. (has been for over a week as
    I was on holiday). I'll post suitable messages when it returns to full
    health.
    
    Richard (manager of TIMMII)

RE:    < Note 1091.28 by RUTILE::GUEST "Please don't try to log in..." >
   
    
    Nigel, if you're not careful i'll post the 'famous picture'
    of your car in here. Remember ?
    
    Lewis. (not afraid to blackmail;-))

    
    Thank goodness i've only got a VT220  :-)
    
    Those with VT?40 series should be given a serious grin warning !
    
    Nigel

    I'll enter it if there's enough reponse.
    
    But be warned it takes around 10-15mins to display!

                     <<< Note 1091.32 by RUTILE::BISHOP >>>

>    I'll enter it if there's enough reponse.
>    But be warned it takes around 10-15mins to display!



add it.. but precede this with a "warning ! the next note is
looooonnnggg" note

I,m going to Weymouth in a few weeks and I wonder if it is better taking 
one of the A roads or going right through obn the Mway.

What is my best route?

Tony.

    
    I came back (to Reading) from Weymouth on Saturday evening, with no 
    serious holdups, but there are major roadworks around the Winchester
    bypass, which I have been told cause big delays if traffic is heavy.
    I drove down on Wednesday morning via Salisbury, leaving home at
    8.30am, and did not hit any jams, but the overtaking possibilities were
    somewhat limited, due to oncoming traffic.
    
    My advice - motorway is quicker at non-peak times, otherwise use the A
    roads, and keep moving.
    
    Elaine 
    

On the M4 last night - unmarked RED Sierra. It had bule flashing lights
(it had just stopped someone) but they were very different from the 5" ones
you normally see. These were tiny, almost under the bumper and flashed more
like an electronic flash gun than a bulb turning on amd off. Very easy to miss
when not flashing!

Beware (or look rather more than once every 9 seconds :-)  )

Jc 

    Were these under the bumper lights at the back and/or front ?

   <<< Note 1091.36 by SIEVAX::CORNE "This Space Intentionally Left Blank" >>>
                        -< Not in Devon, but still... >-

>On the M4 last night - unmarked RED Sierra

Is that a red XR4x4  (but maybe not badged as such) ?

    The lights are at the front, or the ones I saw on the Reading IDR on
    Monday night were!
    
    Didn't get a chance to see the back, but it's definitely an XR4x4.
    
    As I recall, there's been a warning about it in here before. I believe
    it cycles around the Thamses Valley forces, and it seems to have just
    come round to Reading again.

	Yes, you're right they are getting sneaky, not only do The Avon and
Somerset Police have the red Sierra, they also have a dark blue Granada, a dark
blue and a dark red Volvo 760. They swap them about from time to time, current
favorite place is the section between the Bath junction and the M32 Bristol
junction, those big down hill sections just makes life easy for them. They all
haunt the M5 just above the M4/M5 intersection and the M32 with monotonous
regularity. By the way, coincidence or what, the red Sierra has been "having" a
motorist every night this week just as I've been passing...

	Ian (Bristolian commuter!)

    Can I circulate a rumour about a silver Renault 5 Turby ? ;-)
    
    R

    Someone queried the purpose of the cameras in use on the A33 between
    Winchester and Southampton.  I noticed coming out of Southampton
    last night, at the beginning of the dual-carriageway, a sign that
    said "Warning - Television Cameras in Operation".  There was no
    reference to speed checking however.
                       
    My personal opinion is that these are being used for traffic flow
    monitoring as opposed to speed checking.  Surely they are too high
    above or too far away from the carriageway to be effective in speed
    checking?
    
    
            

    re. red sierra
    
    I tried to enter a note earlier last week about this then my machine
    crashed and I forgot about it. That thingy moves more like a cosworth,
    it does however have the 4x4 body kit and no badges on the rear
    apart from the Sierra badge. I was its target until a nice gentleman
    in a Renault 25 tanked past doing about 110+ along the A33 near
    the M4, so watch out down that strech too. Strange thing was there
    were 4 people in the thing, the one in the passenger seat weilding
    a speed gun of some description.
    
    Nigel.

    re < Note 1091.42 by YUPPY::FOX "Monotony on the Bounty" >
                       -< A33 Winchester -> Southampton >-

    On the TVS news a number of months ago, there was an item which related
    to these TV cameras.  A man, having got home, after travelling along
    this road, was visited by the Police.  They had videod/watched him
    speeding using these camaras.  The couldn't fine him at the time because
    of the restrictions in the road would cause a hold-up....since then I
    now travel on this road every day and keep to the 50mph limit! 
                  

Re: .42

It is very easy to use a TV camera to check speed.  All you need to do is
time a vehicle between two points a known distance apart.  As long as the
camera can read the number plate (remember that the image can be digitally
processed to enhance it) speeders stand a good chance of being nicked.

jb

    Latest (but not by no means new) trick on the A33
    Winchester-Southampton:
    
    Police cars hiding behind the "Stay in Lane" signs on the big dip.
    

>>    Replying to notes 1091.30 1091.32 & 1091.33 here is the picture.
>>    
>>  *********************** LONG ENTRY *********************************
    
why didn't you post this warning before posting a 2000 line note?

why didn't you just post a pointer to it rather than duplicating an entry?



...art		:-(

    
    Indeed, why on earth did he bother at all!
    
    I hear Polonez have a job waiting for him ....

    RE: last 2
    
    I assume you know what the 'next unseen' button is?
    
    Someone in this conference did request this.
    
    >>    Replying to notes 1091.30 1091.32 & 1091.33 here is the picture.
    >>    
    >>  *********************** LONG ENTRY *********************************
    
    >> why didn't you post this warning before posting a 2000 line note?

    This warning was before the long entry. What's the problem?
    
    >>why didn't you just post a pointer to it rather than duplicating an entry?
   
    Duplicating an entry? How many people want to open a new conference
    just to see one picture?  
    
                            	Lewis.

    I guess the problem was (and is) that the warning was in the same reply
    and if you're running DECwindows Notes (or whatever it's called), then
    you get the whole Note loaded onto your system before you see the
    warning. Consumes both system and time .......

I second reply .51 - when using Decwindows, the WHOLE note has to be read into
a buffer before you can move on to do a next unseen.

Notes etiquette has ben discussed in many conferences recently and the
concensus seems to be that if a note is longer than 200 lines then it should be
put in a separate topic or reply with a pointer to it.

BTW, I left my system to read in your note while I went for a coffee, and it was
STILL reading it in 15 minutes later.......

    RE 1091.47 and following notes:
    
    The offending note has been deleted to save any futher inconvience
    to other people.
    
    I apologise to anyone who has been inconvienced by this picture.
    
    For anyone who wants to see this picture then email.
    
    Lewis. (aka Mr Bishop).

    Has anyone noticed the white blobs (either round or diamond shaped)
    that have started appearing on straight pieces of road?
    
    It seems that these are being used as landmarks for speed traps when
    the radar gun is pointed.
    
    Spotted so far:
    
    A380 (Devon) at Ideford Dip (see my earlier entries!!!!)
    A303 on Andover bypass, London bound
    A30  between Sutton Scotney and Wherwell X-road
    A34  south of Bullington Cross interchange, Newbury bound.
    
    Do you know of any others?  Share them here!!!
    

    I think I've spotted a permenant speed trap. It's not exactly in north
    devon but its on the way if you're coming from London.  On the A316
    west bound on Twickenham bridge ( Richmond to some ) a couple of weeks
    ago a large grey box on a pole appeared. For those who have seen the
    red traffic light snap happy spy on the pole , its identical to one of
    those. It sure is'nt for trapping the traffic light jumper , the
    nearest lights are about 5 mile in one direction and about 1 in the
    other. Its perched on the far side of the bridge. I have been
    travelling towards it when cars not visably hanging about passed it and
    the flash light triggered, I have been travelling at bang on the speed
    limit when I've been passed by someone who was definatly not slowing
    down , He got a flash as he went passed the box.
    
    
     Make of it what you want but I know what I do when I pass it.
    
    
    Garry

    How do white-blobs-in-the-road help the radar traps? My understanding
    of these things is that they function on the Doppler principle.
    
    I suppose that they could use the VASCAR with blobs, but it would be
    even more subjective than VASCAR is normally.
    
    Steve

	Yes, I've spotted the spots on A34, South bound one was, I'm sure,
	 yellow in colour.

	My thought was for use by Helicopters.

	(It seems that somewhere around the London area they use Helicopters
	   for speeders - +100 mph people.)

    Re: .56
    
    Well, the one I spotted on the A380 at Ideford Dip is in a classic spot
    for catching speeders (I know, 'cos I got caught!).  The diamond (in
    this case) is just below where the road plunges down the dip, only in
    the fast lane.  At the bottom there's a bus-stop which invariably has
    an unmarked police Jaguar lying in wait.
    
    I'm convinced the police use the blob on the road as a means of
    measuring the distance_covered_at_a_certain_speed between the blob and
    them.  The one on the A34 I mentioned is about 500 yards from the A303
    bridge across the A34 which would seem to confirm this theory?
    
    

    I think the blobs and diamonds are just to look pretty. I think we
    should all paint lots more blobs in the road, to brighten up our
    environment. I am sure that everyone will like lots more blobs, and
    lots more different shapes. I am sure that the police are not using
    them to catch motorists, otherwise I would not suggest something which
    might confuse and frustrate them.
    
    Steve ;-}
    
    PS - Any private pilots with views on the legality of helicopters
    trundling up and down the roads at 500'?

No more crops to make circles in so the aliens have started on the roads ?

>    I'm convinced the police use the blob on the road as a means of
>    measuring the distance_covered_at_a_certain_speed between the blob and
>    them.  
    
       That's exactly right. The police use them to measure the time a
       car takes to travel between the blob and fixed point (often
       another blob). Once you've started to notice them, you see them
       all over the place.

       This is one of things you're taught on the "Drive and Survive"
       training, slow down for blobs!

       Ian.

	This seem a general speeding note so I'll stick this here.

	For those heading west along the M4 to Bristol etc.
	 there is roadworks with a MANDATORY speed limit of 50mph
	 at junction 16 (SWINDON).

	The reason I'm mentioning it is because Wilts police are clocking
	 anyone speeding through here and sending you a little envelope
	 later through the post.

	It started this week , already well over 250 envelopes on their
	  way to people, with some nice person being asked, how come
	  you were clocked at 93mph?

	Like to to see the answer. :-)