Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    I was told by someone, who knows someone, who knows someone....
    
    that the person who was killed was a marshall, and he died from a 
    heart attack, caused by shock, rather than his injuries....
    
    Elaine 

    Did that last someone read the papers 'cos that's where i read he'd
    had a stroke.
    
    Nigel

    I did not have time to buy the monday newspapers. Could anyone post
    the results of the race here ? I know Comas (Lola-Mugen DAMS) won.
    I wonder what happened to the EJR boys (Irvine, Naspetti, Frantzen).

    
    re 1 and 2 - the last someone on my list was (apparently) an official
    at the track.
    
    Elaine

    	Acording to Motoring News, the person who died was a spectator who
    was standing in a designated spectating area. Ray Plummer was hit by
    the rear suspension of McNish's DAMS Lola as it disintegrated and
    suffered a heart attack as a result of his injuries. Despite tremendous
    efforts by the paramedics who resuscitated him immediately, he died
    later in hospital. Three other spectatorts were injured, two of whom
    were marshalls. McNish escaped unharmed although was he was desperately
    upset by the tradegy and was treated for shock. The other driver
    involved, Emanuele Naspetti, was unharmed.
    
    	The accident occured as McNish, who had switched to slick tyres on
    the damp tracl during the parade lap, was slicing his way back through
    the field and, on lap three, came upon Naspetti. As they passed under
    the Dunlop Bridge on Starkey Straight and approached the Esses they
    made nose (McNish) to tail (Naspetti) contact. They then both speared
    right into the concrete retaining wall, locked together. Naspetti's car
    hit the wall, knocking off the right front wheel. The car ran along the
    wall into the gravel trap and stopped. McNish's car, which was
    sandwiched between the Reynard and the wall, took off, turned through
    180 degrees with the rear wing over the wall and the nose on the grass,
    barrel-rolled twice along the top of the wall and then took off over
    the wall, coming to rest minus engine, gearbox and rear suspension at
    the base of the vehicle underpass. During its flight, it had cleared
    several cars as well as the 3' high wall and a loudspeaker sustem 
    (being at least 15' in the air at one point) before ploughing through  
    a chickenwire fence.
    
    	Both cars were impounded pending inspection and Leicester
    Constabulary took statements from both drivers as a matter of course
    although it is not thought that poor driving had anything to do with
    it. As McNish was running slicks and Naspetti  wets, they were using
    different bits of track but witnesses agree Naspetti defended his line
    correctly although McNish was obviously gaining on him rapidly and was
    travelling a lot faster.
    
    	The other worrying thing about the episode concerns the lack of
    proper debris fencing. Some say that this could have prevented the
    tradegy while others say the energy involved in the accident could not
    have been contained by any sort of fencing. Donington had only recently
    complied with a number of FISA requirements (put forth while there was
    still hope for an F1 race) to the letter and the track had been
    reinspected, and passed, on the Friday before the race. However,
    Silverstone were required to install debris fencing around the complete
    circuit while Donington only has it around part of the circuit and not
    at the Esses.
    
    	There will be a full enquiry by FISA and reccommendation by the RAC
    MSA regards safety standards at all race tracks.
    
    Colin

    Autosport this week has a whole page devoted to the accident at
    Donnington. There are 3 picture ,2 of which show the real horror of the
    accident. The main picture show McNish's car disapearing over the
    retaining wall , there is clearly parked cars not too far from the
    wall, the engine ,gearbox etc flying through the air and generally
    bits, presumably body, showering the area. The other 2 , one a simular
    picture to that on the front of M.N., the other show a steaming
    engine & gearbox lump laying on the ground in the spectator area. There
    is a deckchair and a bag on the ground nearer to the fencing than the
    engine. I think the comment in M.N. about the chicken wire is a little
    unfair, the picture in autosport clearly shows a standard motorsport	
    prohibited area notice on the fence , that to me suggest that it is to
    keep the spectator away from the wall and not flying car parts away
    from the spectators. There is also a sketch the rough location to what
    happened .
    
    
    garry

    I thought I'd wake this topic up on another tack..... F3000 is boring
    this year! 
    
    I've seen the last two races (Jerez & Monza) on tv recently, and
    they were *so* processional. The clips of Silverstone looked a bit
    more entertaining but it seems that once one of the top few get
    in front thats it, end of race.
    
    If you add to that the ludicrous display at Pau, and the very sparse
    fields in the British championship, I wonder who's going to be the
    next F1 graduate.
    
    From what I've seen recently, Comas is in a different class, and
    Damon Hill looks very fast but hampered by poor reliability. Apicella
    looks to have missed the boat, and McNish, Morbidelli and Motormindi
    look to be the favourites for next year. Eddie Irvine also looks
    to have potential - a possible recruit for Eddie Jordan's GP team?
    
    I'll be up at the Birmingham Super Prix, and it'll be interesting
    to see how things are shaping by then. To date I've fast forwarded
    through large chunks of the races.
    
    Paul

    In case anybody still reads this note - a few thoughts on the
    Birmingham Super Prix.
    
    God those cars sound flat! After the glorious noise of F1 V10's & V12's
    the massed ranks of V8 F3000 cars sound very dull. Anyway, onto "the
    future of F1" Hmmm??
    
    Brits first -
    
    Gilbert-Scott : Shame he's so old (32!) Drove very well yesterday and
    looked amongst the best in the field.
    
    Irvine : Fast and smooth, climbed up the field well until something
    happened with Barbazza(sp?)
    
    Hill : Caught up in the first corner incident, and clearly upset the
    car, didn't really feature in the race.
    
    McNish : Started well down the grid, but was slicing up the field very
    well until mechanical problems intervened. Looks set for F1 atthe end
    of next year, when he can handle new circuits better.
    
    Andrews : Who? Didn't really see him!
    
    Warwick (Paul) : Impressive in only his second F3000 race. Coming up
    well from the back of the grid when he tangled with Andrews and then
    ran (lapped) with the leaders. Definately made the right decision to
    jump out of the Mika & Mika show in F3.
    
    Now the rest -
    
    van der Poele - very neat drive, handled the lead very well, but can he
    repeat it away from street circuits?
    
    Apicella - when is this person going to win?!! Took the lead
    decisicively from v d P, and ran away, only to blow the engine. I hope
    he gets into F1 despite his non-winning record.
    
    Comas - a big disappointment, held up a lot of the field for a long
    time.
    
    Frentzen - rough, tough and very fast, but looks hard on the car.
    
    Chiesa - ran well, but a bit anonymous.
    
    All in all, I saw very little to impress and inspire confidence for F1,
    although it was a very entertaining race. No-one really stood out.
    
    Paul

    Paul,
    
    You asked in the F1 note how I could discount McNish so easily? Well,
    I'll admit part of it was to wind you up slightly, but on the strength
    of what I saw on TV yesterday, maybe I wasn't far wrong. I know he had 
    a good first few races, but he seems to be losing his way away from the
    circuits he knows well (as you say he seems to have trouble learning
    circuits), I certainly don't rate him and suspect virtually any driver
    in F3 the year he won could have done as well as he has with same
    bottomless pit of Marlboro backing. 
    
    Re Alesi (again in the F1 note, but valid here), you say he only just
    won the F3000 championship, but surely the fact that he did means he 
    DID beat all the other drivers you mentioned. In addition you seem
    to ignore the fact that he did this while also racing the Tyrrell in
    F1. Alesi is getting a lot of hype at the moment, but I don't think
    he shows any sign of being affected by it, on the contrary he seems to
    be keeping a very level headed approach and doesn't seem to have gone
    into prima-donna mode as many lesser talents (and bigger names) would
    have if they'd been linked with 3 of the top 4 teams in only their
    1st FULL F1 season.
    
    Mark

    Re McNish
    
    From the TV coverage we recorded and watched last night, its not
    surprising you didn't see McNish. In fact, the only time I saw him was
    in the pits walking past Apicella's car!
    
    On the track, McNish was about 20th on the grid, and after the start
    was rapidly moving up the field. In comparison to many of the others he
    was smooth *and* fast. I don't know what his problem was 'cos he
    stopped out on the circuit, but I reckon he would have been in the top
    6 if he had finished.
    
    Re Alesi
    
    I do not dispute he is good, but I reckon he is being over-rated. Last
    year he won three races (McNish has won two already this season) in
    F3000 and beat Comas to the title on a 3-2 wins count back. He actually
    stopped racing in F1 to win those races, and missed a couple of GPs.
    
    As for the prima donna bit - calling a press conference to tell the
    hacks to lay off??? signing letters of intent with Ferrari *and*
    Williams? 
    
    I reckon he should stay at Tyrrell for another year and settle down
    before looking to take the mega-money. On the evidence of yesterday he
    was one of the three or four best from a very bad bunch in F3000 last
    year (Paul Belmondo?!?!) and is the one who got the breaks.
    
    How about an advance wager on McNish for 1992?
    
    Paul
    

    
    You want to bet that McNish could win a Grand Prix (assuming he doesn't
    get a Marlboro engineered drive with Mclaren :^)) in 1992? I think
    I'd be more than happy to take a bet on those odds!
    
    Personally I find it hard to see where McNish is going (or sadly 
    any other British F1 contender), because it seems that the UK is seen
    less and less as an important market for the sponsors and after all
    it IS sponsors who ultimately decide which drivers get which seats.
    
    I could be wrong (It HAS been known!) but I really don't think McNish
    is anything special (or is it just because he sounds like that Cleland
    bloke and constantly looks as if he has a cold? :^)). We all have our
    favourites (I thought Mario Hytten was a damned good driver myself),
    and McNish is obviously yours, but I really can't share your enthusiasm
    for him as all I see is a driver who doesn't stand out (2 wins is good,
    but NOT outstanding) despite having enormous Marlboro backing. In F3
    it was the same, maybe it's because he's too much of a Prost driver
    for my liking, he simply picks up the placings when things aren't going
    exactly his way and then ends up with the championship (It COULD happen
    this year), but I really don't think he'll ever be a top-flight F1
    driver (although if F1 cars get any smaller he'll be the only driver
    qualified to race one!).
    
    Mark
    
    PS Letters of intent don't mean anything. Surely all Alesi did was to
    say 'ok I'm interested in driving for this team or that', what do you
    think any driver offered the chance of driving for these teams would
    have done? Turned round and said, 'No I'm not going to sign this,
    you'll come to me if you want me and I'm still available'?
    
    

    Honourable draw agreed Mark, but ..........:-)
    
    McNish is a stone cold certainty for McLaren in '92. In F3 he often
    drove well from the back, 'cos like most of them he couldn't start very
    well! This year has seen 5 different winners in F3000, Comas 3, McNish
    & Van der Poele 2, and Irvine and Morbidelli 1 a piece. Considering wee
    Allan is 
    
    a) driving on circuits abroad he's not seen before
    b) driving a much more powerful machine
    and
    c) is only 20
    
    I reckon he's not doing too bad. All the others were regular contenders
    last year. OK, so his wins have been at Silverstone and Brands but he's
    run well at Jerez and Monza. Plus he's come back from the Donington
    tragedy.
    
    Anyway, I'm willing to put him at the head of the queue of Brits in
    waiting.
    
    I will say tho' that Alesi will win a GP before McNish does, probably
    next season at a street circuit with the (still) underpowered Tyrrell,
    or outright in a Williams-Renault.
    
    As for the rest of F3000, they are a pretty ordinary bunch. Look to F3
    with Hakkinen, Salo and Fittipaldi, and to the lower ranks with
    Barichella (sp?) Palhares and Sosperi for the real talent.
    
    Paul

    Could someone post the race results ? I assume this race was part of
    the British F3000 championship, but I may well be wrong.
    
    On the subject of British drivers, McNish is obviously very good
    and promised to a brilliant career. How about Eddie Irvine, Damon
    Hil, etc ? 

    Patrick,
    
    The Birmingham Super Prix was Rd 9 of the European Championship.
    Results -
    
    1 van der Poele
    2 Chiesa
    3 Artzet
    4 Gounon
    5 Giovanardi
    6 Naspetti
    7 Gilbert-Scott
    8 Warwick
    9 Jones
    10 Wendlinger
    
    No other finishers.
    
    As for the other Brits, Hill has come on very well recently, but like
    Apicella, has a problem winning races. He definately has the skill to
    go with his name (unlike Paul Stewart) and is being touted as a
    possible for F1 next season. Irvine looks better, and is much younger.
    He also looks to have better sponsorship connections, but there might
    be the odd doubt about his "killer instinct".
    
    Paul Warwick has just stepped up from F3 for the end of the season and
    looks to be aclimatising quite well, he should be one to watch next
    year if he gets a good drive.
    
    Paul

	The trouble with the Birmingham Superprix is that it
	appears to be run on the worlds worst circuit. Watching
	on TV you would think that the events were being watched
	only by a collection of some of Britain's most uninspiring
	buildings.

	It's run to bolster a bit of Brummy civic pride, not so
	unreasonable considering that Birmingham is the centre of
	Britain's motor industry, but quite counter productive in
	my view. Surely there must be somewhere better than that
	bumpy, concrete monotony.

	-John

    John,
    
    The circuit looks much better in the flesh than on TV. We've been for
    the past two years, last year at Halfords Hairpin, and this year at the
    corner before the start. The viewing is superb, and for a street
    circuit its very fast - winners av speed 105mph. At Halfords you can
    see all the way up the dual carriageway for both the on-coming and
    leaving cars, and at the corner where we were this year we were within
    10 metres of the cars as they accelerated out of the corner.
    
    I'll concede that Brum is a bit of a charmless city, but they do an
    excellent job at the Super Prix, and from what they have said the
    drivers like the circuit too. There is also a reasonable amount of
    local interest, and loads of side-shows etc.
    
    To sum up, the viewing is better than Silverstone and the facilities
    are better than all the "real" circuits. 
    
    I just hope they keep the F3000s next year rather than those rubbishy
    WSPC things ;->
    
    Paul

    
    You'd never get the WSPC boys there! :^)
    
    Having said that I can think of one advantage with holding Group
    C races in Birmingham over F3000...
    
    You'd probably succeed in getting the whole field of cars beyond the
    first bend before the race had to be stopped. Really the Superprix 
    shows up the quality of the F3000 drivers quite dramatically! ITV
    have shown great determination in continuing to cover a race which
    NEVER gets a clean start (remember the year that the race STARTED
    after ITV's extended coverage finished?).
    
    Mark
    

    
    Come on Mark, Group C drivers aren't exactly perfect.  Remember Dijon
    this year ?  At the end of the warm up lap they couldn't even leave
    each other alone whilst slowing down for the start.
    
    God knows whats happened at the rest.
    
    Nigel
    

    
    Never said they were (a lot aren't even professional drivers!), but 
    considering that F3000 drivers are only a step away from being the
    'best' drivers in the world wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a 
    degree of competence? After all you don't get the same carnage on 
    street circuits in F1, do you?
    
    If I was an F1 team manager/sponsor I'd be a bit concerned about
    the inability of most of the next crop of drivers to finish on 
    street circuits (just check out the Pau result!) when there are a
    number (seemingly a varying number) on the calendar in F1.
    
    Another factor seems to be the zeal with which they stop races in 
    Birmingham. Other street circuits seem to be able to deal with one
    or two cars stranded by using yellow flags and cranes, but at
    Brum that seems to be impossible (remember the stupid situation 
    where a car virtually blocked a corner for a number of laps while
    racing continued? Anywhere else the car would have been craned away
    or the race would have been stopped immediately). I don't know who
    is responsible for running the Superprix, but they don't seem to
    really have cracked the problems of racing on the streets.
    
    Mark 

    RE:
================================================================================
Note 1044.19                          F3000                             19 of 19
CRATE::SAXBY "Is this personal or what?"             23 lines  30-AUG-1990 09:31
                         -< Problems on the streets. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>    Never said they were (a lot aren't even professional drivers!), but 
>    considering that F3000 drivers are only a step away from being the
>    'best' drivers in the world wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a 
>    degree of competence? After all you don't get the same carnage on 
>    street circuits in F1, do you?
    
    Well, Mark, yes actually! Seem to remember one or two at Monaco in
    recent years (months even!). And Spa had a couple of problems and
    that's not even a street circuit!!
    
    I think the F3000 boys show an extraordinary amount of competence in
    the circumstances ; the problem is finding circuits for these
    open-wheeled machines that allow them to perform in a reasonable manner
    while still providing the spectators with something to watch other than
    a great big tv screen.
    
    Colin

    Last week-end at the Bugatti circuit in LeMans Erik Comas has won
    both the race and the 1990 championship. After a beautiful half
    season the DAMS driver has encountered a number of problems with
    his Lola race chassis, problems that have eventually been sorted out.
    
    Bugatti results
    
    1. Comas		Lola/Mugen
    2. Montermini	Reynard/Mugen
    3. Irvine		Reynard/Mugen
    4. Gounon		Reynard/Mugen
    5. Chiesa		Lola/Mugen
    6. Belmondo		Reynard/Mugen
    
    Comas (pole) and McNish were on the front line. McNish gave up on
    lap 26 due to electronics problems.
                             
    Championship
    
    1. Comas		45 points
    2. Irvine		27
    3. McNish		26
    4. Van de Poele     21
    5. Apicella		18
       Chiesa   	18
    7. Morbidelli	16
    ......
                             
    With only 2 races left, Comas is the 1990 F3000 champion.
    Next race : Nogaro, Oct 7
                                                             

    Eric Van de Poele won the race, Comas 2nd. Comas score is now 51
    points. Eddie Irvine could still equal Comas total of 45 points
    by winning the last 2 races provided Comas would not score; in that
    case Comas would have been named 1990 champion based on number of
    wins. Erik Comas is definitely the F3000 top performer to-date.