T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
963.1 | Was it already broken? | MINDER::SMITHDB | | Mon Feb 19 1990 13:39 | 5 |
|
Was it running OK a few months ago, just before it was laid up?
David.
|
963.2 | Purring on all 4 cylinders...! | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Mon Feb 19 1990 14:36 | 6 |
| Yes, it ran very well. The only reason it's been sitting doing nothing is
it has a bashed wing and no headlight. Now the insurance for that is sorted
out, its owner (my brother) decided he no longer wanted it so gave it to me,
rather than send it to a scrap yard. I've got a replacement wing, and it needs
new tyres, but apart from that it's in good condition.
Scott.
|
963.3 | Petrol? | VANILA::LINCOLN | Reality is not what it seems | Mon Feb 19 1990 15:05 | 7 |
| The probable reason it didn't start was that the petrol,
particularly that in the carburettor had degraded through
vapourisation. Once that's flushed through it should be OK.
Try putting some fresh stuff in if desperate.
-John
|
963.4 | | JUMBLY::DAY | No Good Deed Goes Unpunished | Mon Feb 19 1990 15:24 | 11 |
| You might also care to look at the fuel pump in a threatening
manner. Other dafties : Condenser in distributor/distributor
connections in general.
I'm assuming that your main ignition circuits are demankified -
moisture does nasty things.
If all else fails push it on to the road and phone the AA ..
Mike Day
|
963.5 | try this..... | SHAPES::STREATFIELDC | Run a Beetle?..IOSG::AIR_COOLED | Mon Feb 19 1990 16:52 | 13 |
963.6 | Thanks, but... | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Mon Feb 19 1990 17:02 | 9 |
| Thanks for all these suggestions, but:
The fuel pump does work (loadsa fuel getting to the carb - I took the pipe off
and watched it spurt out)
There is no old fuel in the carb - I dismantled and cleaned it.
There is fresh fuel in the tank.
The plugs do spark when cranking the engine on the starter (I took them out and
held them against the engine block while connected (with insulated pliers :-)))
I'm at a complete loss. I'll try it again this evening.
|
963.7 | Oh! | SHAPES::STREATFIELDC | Run a Beetle?..IOSG::AIR_COOLED | Mon Feb 19 1990 17:08 | 4 |
| Short of a complete and massive loss of compression, or breakdown of
conduction of all leads simultaniously, I don't know then!
Carl.
|
963.8 | Perhaps....
| IOSG::FREER | Deadly brain, or Brain dead? | Mon Feb 19 1990 18:43 | 13 |
| My old Midget suffered from this....
What it turned out to be was a duff coil, but not so duff that it didn't
produce a spark!!
If your willing to spend out the lolly on a new coil (always a good idea on an
A series engine) then you never know this could fix it.
If you are a little worried about this, you could either get it to Lucas service
centre just of the Basingstoke road, or get some mobile tuning guy over to look
at it.
Steve
|
963.9 | | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Mon Feb 19 1990 18:45 | 5 |
|
last time this happened to me....there was "damp" on the inside of the
distributor cap....
judicious use of a paper tissue, is the only remedy needed ;-)
|
963.10 | Turned===== Tuned | FORTY2::NAYLER_NET | Boogie 'til you drop | Mon Feb 19 1990 18:50 | 9 |
|
Speaking of Tuning can anyone recomend somewhere I can get my car turned.
I changed my head gasket over the weekend and I think I should get it
tuned now :-)...
Mike.
|
963.11 | Murder without an electric start | NDLIS4::JRICHARDS | SOAPBOX, a REAL video nasty | Mon Feb 19 1990 19:19 | 17 |
| Total loss of compression:
All the plugs out, a squirt of fresh engine oil in each bore and
turn the engine over.
Blocked jets:
Take the carb apart and remove all jets and blow them thorugh with
compressed air (foot pump will also do). Also blow the passages
out.
After a winter of standing this is the normal procedure for getting
my bike running again.
Jan
|
963.12 | Tow it .... | VOGON::KAPPLER | John Kappler | Mon Feb 19 1990 21:08 | 5 |
| My Rally car used to behave like this after any significant rebuild.
Remedy, get a friend to tow you around in gear until it fires.
Brmm, brmm
|
963.13 | It is an ex-mini. it has ceased to be... | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Tue Feb 20 1990 12:38 | 16 |
| I tried again last night, but it still won't go.
Plugs are sparking very well, so no problems with damp or faulty electrics.
Compression seems okay (took out a spark plug, put thumb over opening, turned
engine by hand, held thumb in place for a couple of seconds, release thumb ->
satisfying sound of escaping air)
Carb/inlet manifold not blocked (held hand over air filter inlet while cranking
engine - lots of suck!)
I eventually sprayed WD40 into all the cylinders in case they were damp. After
that it seemed to almost fire once, or maybe that was just the WD burning.
I put a piece of clean tissue paper in a cylinder, cranked the engine then
removed it. It smelt of petrol, but not strongly so maybe the mixture is too
weak? It was too cold and dark last night to fiddle with that though.
Only other thing I can think of is that there's water in the cylinders or in the
fuel.
How can I find out if this is the case?
Scott.
|
963.14 | | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Tue Feb 20 1990 12:43 | 17 |
|
There is one other thing that causes an apparently healthy mini to
consistently refuse to start...
Have you checked that the wire that runs from the altenator to (? coil
maybe) has not been chaffed. Aparently the alternator sends extra
volts down this wire when the starter motor is used, to assist in
starting the engine. Any thinning of this cable, seriously reduces
the number of "extra volts" that can get down this wire.
Chaffing is quite common against the casing of the altenator itself.
It is also not too obvious, one has to check the wire quite closely.
I had no end of starting problems the first time this happened to me,
because I just taped it up to stop it shorting out and thought no more
about it for a while, just couldn't start the car....I live on a hill
though :-)
|
963.15 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Tue Feb 20 1990 13:09 | 14 |
| Try the compression again ... get a gague to measure it if possible.
After not running for six months, the rings could have rusted into the
pistons, reducing the compression enough to stop the thing starting.
One thing I used to try with old motorbikes that wouldn't start was to
pour lighter fuel down the plug holes and then try. Once the engine has
fired a few times and warmed up, the rings tend to loosen and the
compression returns to normal.
It basically has to be one of three things: fuel, spark or compression.
If you have all of them, and at the right time in the right amounts,
it WILL run ... and you can quote me on that :-)
Mark
|
963.16 | Stand well back at ARMS LENGTH | LARVAE::BURNS_T | live hard..... die young ???? | Tue Feb 20 1990 13:25 | 9 |
|
After testing that petrol reaches the carb ie pumping some into a glass
jar, remove the air filter and the DRIBBLE some petrol directly into
the carb while somebody turns the motor over.
The highly inflamable air will / should then start the motor enough
for it to run on its own.
Are the plugs looking wet from the petrol poured in and not burned ???
Trev.
|
963.17 | And blow yourself to kingdom come at the same time! | BRIANH::NAYLOR | Purring on all 12 cylinders | Tue Feb 20 1990 13:57 | 6 |
| .16>> remove the air filter and the DRIBBLE some petrol directly into
.16>> the carb while somebody turns the motor over.
This is THE most dangerous practice known to ancient motorists.
My advice is NEVER do it.
|
963.18 | | VOGON::ATWAL | Dreams, they complicate my life | Tue Feb 20 1990 14:01 | 6 |
| have you seen that starting spray (@halfords etc)...
contains petrol (+other stuff) in an aerosol can (can't remember exact details
tho), that you spray into the carb to get the engine started
...Art.
|
963.19 | | VANDAL::BAILEY | Send money..Lots of Money.. lots and lots of | Tue Feb 20 1990 14:14 | 8 |
| >have you seen that starting spray (@halfords etc)...
Quick Start (other names also).. used to use it on our mower..
worked really well (without QS you could spend AGES trying to get the
damn thing started... with a little QS.. started in no time at all)
dunow if it will help .0 tho.. I think he's past needing QS
|
963.20 | | VOGON::ATWAL | Dreams, they complicate my life | Tue Feb 20 1990 14:18 | 4 |
| no, it's not Quick Start... it's something else.
...Art
|
963.21 | | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Tue Feb 20 1990 14:24 | 6 |
|
Scott,
Where is this Mini of yours to be found ?
Do you live in Reading ?
|
963.22 | | LARVAE::MUNSON_P | On the 7th day, God made the 49ers | Tue Feb 20 1990 14:54 | 4 |
963.23 | Catch-22 | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Tue Feb 20 1990 15:15 | 2 |
| The mini's in Ascot.
If you tell me how to start it, I can bring it to Reading...
|
963.24 | | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Tue Feb 20 1990 15:57 | 9 |
|
the only other thing I can suggest, apart from getting someone to tow
it around until it does start, is to go over the electrics with a volt
meter....
I doubt this problem is caused by something blocked, stuck or fuel. It's
far more likely to be caused by either electrics or timing.
Did you re-set the timing yourself ?
|
963.25 | Not a current problem... | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Tue Feb 20 1990 17:11 | 9 |
| I have checked the electrics with a voltmeter, and unless I'm being really
stupid, there's nothing wrong with them. I set the ignition timing (static
only, can't do it running yet!) myself. As I've done it to countless other
cars before I'm sure I've done that right.
I think the problem is water in the fuel (or other rubbish). I shall try
filling the float chamber with fresh stuff, and if that works I shall have to
drain all the fuel out and start again...
More news tomorrow!
Scott.
|
963.26 | Check the timing! | TLE::LEGERLOTZ | I came. I saw. I left. | Tue Feb 20 1990 17:23 | 19 |
| RE: 938.18
I think that starter fluid in a can contains ether. It's HIGHLY flammable.
It can be really dangerous when people don't head the warning that says "Spray
BEFORE attempting to start the engine" - they spray while cranking it over. One
good backfire and ka-blooey...
RE: .0
You had said that the petrol was fresh, but you still think that there might
be water in it. They sell something here in the US called DRI-GAS. It consists
mainly of alcohol. The alcohol bonds with the water and makes it *flammable*.
It should cost about 50p a bottle (that is enough for 10+ gallons of petrol).
The other thing that I would check would be your points and timing. A spark at
the wrong time is as good as no spark at all.....
|
963.27 | Oops | TLE::LEGERLOTZ | I came. I saw. I left. | Tue Feb 20 1990 17:29 | 12 |
| .25 and .26 collided. Since you've already checked the timing, I guess my only
though would be that "dri-gas" stuff. They must have it over there. But I
can't think what it would be called.
I went into a chemist once, while on holiday, and was looking for "rubbing
alcohol" for my girlfriend to disinfect her earings. They looked at me like I
had 2 heads. I found out after a lengthly discussion that I was looking for
"surgical spirit". If you find it. I would be interested in knowing what
"dri-gas" is called in the UK.
-Al
|
963.28 | | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Tue Feb 20 1990 17:36 | 5 |
|
I still reckon your best bet is to tie a rope on it and lassoo a
passing car....
;-)
|
963.29 | Please do not be insulted by these suggestions! | SHAPES::STREATFIELDC | Run a Beetle?..IOSG::AIR_COOLED | Wed Feb 21 1990 12:43 | 10 |
963.30 | Light touch paper and stand well back... | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Wed Feb 21 1990 12:51 | 19 |
| I had another look at things last night. It was raining, so I didn't fancy
walking to the garage to get a can of fresh petrol. I took some petrol from the
float chamber, put it straight into the carb, then sprayed in lots of WD40 to
get rid of any water. I put the carb back together, and cranked the engine...
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...but only for a few seconds, until the fuel in the carb had been used up.
Assuming it isn't a blockage in the carb jet ('cos I cleaned it at the weekend)
the fuel must be 'off'. I didn't drain it all last night (well would you in
the dark when it's raining?), but I think that's the next thing to do. Last
night I was happy just to have found out what was wrong.
Many thanks to everyone's suggestions. All I've got to do now is weld on a new
wing, fit a headlamp, find out why the indicators don't work, fix the horn,
adjust the brakes...
If I'm lucky it might even pass the MOT!
Scott.
|
963.31 | | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Wed Feb 21 1990 15:02 | 9 |
|
If the thing started, it would have continued even with duff petrol,
unhappily, but it would have kept running...
sounds more like a blockage in the connection between the pipe and the
float chamber, if there is petrol flowing from the pipe when you
disconnect it.
Get hold of a sewing needle and start poking around :-)
|
963.32 | The sweet smell of burning oil! | SHAPES::STREATFIELDC | VW Beetle.. IOSG::AIR_COOLED | Wed Feb 21 1990 15:21 | 6 |
| Well done, what year is this glorious/infamous automobile?
I seem to remember that most of the A series used SU carbs, is this
right?
Carl
|
963.33 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Wed Feb 21 1990 15:36 | 12 |
| It should have an SU. There is a pipe carrying fuel from the float
chamber to the carb ... this could be blocked with dried-up fuel
deposits. If the petrol is arrinving in the float chamber, but not
at the carb, the pipe could be blocked.
Also, you mentioned you cleaned the jet at the weekend. How did you
do this ??? If you removed it from the carb, then you would have
removed the pipe with it. If this is the case, perhaps you misplaced
the rubber sealing ring and blocked the end of the pipe.
Mark
|
963.34 | Carburettor | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Wed Feb 21 1990 17:36 | 28 |
| It has an SU HS2 carburettor. What I did was:
- take carb from engine
- take dashpot off carb
- take piston out of carb, being careful not to bend the needle valve.
- take lid off float chamber
- remove fuel pipe from base of float chamber
- remove jet and pipe from carburettor
- clean out old fuel (it *was* a funny colour!)
- blow through jet and tube to check not blocked.
- reassemble carb in reverse order to above.
- blow through fuel inlet to float chamber with piston down - nothing happens
- blow through inlet with piston up - can blow air through
- put oil in dashpot and check piston moves up and down freely
- check choke and throttle linkages work correctly
- put carb back on car.
I was a bit suspicious of the pipe from the float chamber to the jet at the
time; maybe I kinked or twisted it? I'll check it again before draining the
fuel. Removing the carb also gives me a chance to adjust the gearstick linkage.
This was so loose you couldn't get the car into second or fourth, as the
gearstick hit the edge of its hole in the floor (its the old-style very long
stick) before engaging gear. The nut to tighten it is in between the engine
and bulkhead and wins my prize for Most Inaccessible Nut 1990. Although I've
managed to tighten it just enough to get into gear, taking the carb off should
make it possible to do the job properly.
If I hadn't got the car for free I would be a bit upset by now!
Scott.
|
963.35 | | GVA01::STIFF | Paul Stiff, EHQIM-OIS DTN:821 4167 | Wed Feb 21 1990 17:43 | 15 |
| Definetly sounds like a blocage of somekind - if the plugs don't
get wet when you turn the engine, then obviously there is no fuel.
A silly question - is the float chamber float set with the correct
gap on the little metal strip ?
another silly question - when you re-assembled the carb, did you
make sure the needle was centred properly ?
About the pouring fuel in the carb - the way I do it is to fill
up the little trumpet with fuel, then go and crank the engine with
the accelerator flat down is that dangerous too ?
Paul
|
963.36 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Wed Feb 21 1990 19:17 | 12 |
| re: .34
I would have thought that you should always be able to blow air
through, even with the needle right down.
Did you move the needle in the piston ??? If so, did you get the shoulder
back in the right place ??? If so, try dropping the needle height a little
(although I would imagine that that happens fine on choke). You did check
that the choke was reconnected, and moves the jet down when activated ???
I'm not implying that you are stupid :-), but you never know ...
Mark
|
963.37 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Wed Feb 21 1990 19:19 | 4 |
| ... that should be "try dropping the jet height", not "needle
height".
Mark
|
963.38 | Stupid question | CURRNT::JENKINS_R | | Wed Feb 21 1990 19:35 | 5 |
|
May sound really silly but...
Are the inlet valves opening to let any mixture in?
|
963.39 | | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Wed Feb 21 1990 21:14 | 4 |
|
If it went "BBBBBRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUMMM" after being given, by
artificial means, a float chamber full of petrol...I should think that
the valves are working :-)
|
963.40 | This may sound stupid, but... | TLE::LEGERLOTZ | I came. I saw. I left. | Wed Feb 21 1990 22:28 | 14 |
| This may sound stupid, but you didn't mention it. Did you clean the inside of
the carb with anything besides air? With that old *varnished* fuel, some sort
of solvent would be necessary to eat through it, and eliminate all of the
blockage.
I've only been in an English auto parts store once, and I don't remember seeing
"Gum-Out" or any other carb solvent like that. It contains pretty severe
chemicals that the government over there may not be fond of; I can't think that
that sort of solvent would be at all "Environmentally Friendly".
If they do sell that sort of thing over there, I highly recomend using some of
it on the carb. It should do wonders for all of the old fuel left in there.
-Al
|
963.41 | Work upstream? | DOOZER::PENNEY | | Wed Feb 21 1990 23:16 | 23 |
| Yet another "this may sound stupid but"...
Are you sure the fuel pump is really doing its job? I've had a case,
admittedly with a mechanical pump (minis are electric aren't they?),
where cranking the engine did produce a reasonable-looking spout of
fuel from the carb supply pipe (disconnected), but this was misleading
- it wasn't actually enough to keep the engine running - though with
hand priming of pump (to fill the float chambers) it would manage a
half-hearted version of your BBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!
Think the trouble was (& still is, but I'm living with it) a dodgy
petrol reserve tank switch, meaning pump can't properly suck fuel
through when running low (though actually a couple of gallons still
left). Maybe it's an airlock or something. It's happened more than
once.
I imagine a defective pump, or even a pinhole in a fuel supply pipe,
could produce similar symptons?
Or what about the fuel tank venting system? Never understood what
that's for, but could it stop the engine running if it's blocked?
Richard
|
963.42 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Thu Feb 22 1990 11:15 | 14 |
| And now for my HP impression ...
How about if the needle in the piston were too low. With the piston
in the lowest position, the needle would completely block the jet,
but would be high enough up to allow air in.
Adding petrol to the carb as you did would cause the car to start
and run until the petrol you added ran out, then the piston would
rise a little but the resulting mixture from the jet would be too
weak to keep it going.
Could be an answer ..
Mark
|
963.43 | Carb again | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Thu Feb 22 1990 14:39 | 9 |
| Last night the car's previous owner said:
"Oh, by the way, the carb doesn't work properly..."
This was while I was standing in the kitchen holding it at an angle to see if
fuel would run from the float chamber through the jet. Even with the piston
fully lifted, only a slow trickle came through. I shall try and get a new pipe
to connect the float chamber to the jet.
The problem is definitely in the carb, the fuel pump is fine.
I'm taking tomorrow off to work on it, so more news next week.!
Scott
|
963.44 | | SHAPES::STREATFIELDC | VW Beetle.. IOSG::AIR_COOLED | Thu Feb 22 1990 16:08 | 1 |
| Isn't a second hand one a better/less hassle proposition?
|
963.45 | | TLE::LEGERLOTZ | I came. I saw. I left. | Thu Feb 22 1990 17:14 | 2 |
963.46 | Carb repair kit | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Thu Feb 22 1990 17:20 | 3 |
963.47 | of should be off...sorry | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Fri Feb 23 1990 13:46 | 5 |
|
the cheapest solution would be to go to a scrap yard and barter a bit
and get one for a couple of quid of an old mini...
Minis carburetors are usually quite reliable...
|
963.49 | Brrm, brrrm | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Wed Feb 28 1990 12:54 | 18 |
| I put a new jet / flexible hose assembly on the carb, and the car started first
time. In retrospect, I think the main problem was a grossly maladjusted jet, so
far too weak a mixture was getting to the engine, hence preventing it going.
Having started the car, I heard that a new exhaust was needed. Inspection
revealed the flared end where it joins the manifold has broken. Can I buy a
front pipe on its own? Will places like Humphries sell them "over the counter"?
I've got the old wing off (easier than expected!), so next thing is fitting the
new and a new headlight. I still can't work out why the interior light goes out
when I turn on the windscreen wipers...
I also had to fit a new bypass hose. The man (woman?) who designed minis must
have had a grudge against people who were subsequently going to work on them:
it's all but impossible to get at the hose with the engine in the car, but I
think I've done it ok; I'll check when I fill up the cooling system.
Scott.
|
963.50 | budget bucks! | SHAPES::STREATFIELDC | VW Beetle.. IOSG::AIR_COOLED | Wed Feb 28 1990 13:38 | 2 |
963.51 | Thanks Sir Alec! | TMCUK2::MOXLEY | The Wild Heart | Thu Mar 01 1990 15:27 | 20 |
963.52 | | COMICS::WEGG | UK TSC - DTN 833 3698 | Thu Mar 01 1990 16:48 | 14 |
| Re .49
> The man (woman?) who designed minis must have had a grudge against people
> who were subsequently going to work on them:
Sir Alec Issigonis certainly wasn't adverse to imposing his
prejudices on his car designs. You'll notice there's no convenient
place to put a radio, and the seatbelt mounting points are an
afterthought - Sir Alec hated car radios and never wore seatbelts.
I don't think he had anything against people working on his
engines, though. Much of the mini's appeal is in it's size, and a
cramped engine compartment is the price you have to pay.
Ian.
|
963.53 | Nice one! | TMCUK2::MOXLEY | The Wild Heart | Thu Mar 01 1990 17:37 | 8 |
963.54 | those were the days.... | IOSG::MITCHELL | Elaine | Thu Mar 01 1990 17:51 | 16 |
|
> The man (woman?) who designed minis must have had a grudge against people
> who were subsequently going to work on them:
Minis are great to work on - provided you're double jointed and have
small hands! - Derek used to get out of all sorts of jobs (gear linkage
replacement...etc) by saying his hands were too big!
Which reminds me, when I went to buy a new gear linkage bit, the man in
the parts shop at first refused to sell it to me because he said it
couldn't be replaced without taking the engine out! After I showed him
that I had already removed the old one he eventually sold me the
replacement part - with a "you'll be back" sort of grin. I nearly did
go back - to show him that I'd fixed it!
Elaine
|
963.55 | If you're offering... | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Thu Mar 01 1990 19:28 | 3 |
| Elaine, As you seem to be so good at working on minis, I can very generously
offer you the chance to work on one...
Scott. ;-)
|
963.56 | generous offer declined :-) | IOSG::MITCHELL | Elaine | Fri Mar 02 1990 10:52 | 12 |
|
Scott,
Thanks very much for the offer - but I've got a dead Landrover at the
moment which I've got to sort out! (one extreme to the other!) :-)
Elaine
ps I've sold my Riley Elf :-( Even after about two years of sitting in
a garage, all it neaded was the battry charging up and it started first
time!
|
963.57 | the original 850 of course... | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Fri Mar 02 1990 12:37 | 7 |
|
what you lot are all forgetting about mini engines, is that the one
that Sir Alec designed the mini with was the 850...and there is *lots*
of space to play around with in an 850 mini...
Now the bigger engines were obviously shoe-horned in...and all you need
to work on them with is a very small, but strong pair of hands :-)
|
963.58 | | GVA01::STIFF | Paul Stiff, EHQIM-OIS DTN:821 4167 | Fri Mar 02 1990 14:36 | 7 |
| Forgive my ignorance, but are the 850 and even 1275 blocks not the
same size ? The things that seems to take space under the bonnet
is dual carbs, servo and oil cooler.
Try getting an even small hand under the servo...
Paul
|
963.59 | no room | KERNEL::HUTCHINGS | umop episdn | Fri Mar 02 1990 14:38 | 3 |
| try getting even a feeler gauge in a 1360 cooper s engine
comparment....!!!!
|
963.60 | | SWEEP::ALFORD | Fantasy is the reality of life... | Fri Mar 02 1990 16:38 | 6 |
|
RE: .58
I know the engine blocks are approximately the same size, but I was
using the term engine to mean all the paraphanalia under the bonnet...
|
963.61 | I HATE BOY RACERS | IOSG::MARSHALL | It's not dead, it's resting | Tue Mar 06 1990 15:06 | 29 |
963.62 | Another dud car! | GALVIA::MOREAU | John Moreau | Thu Mar 08 1990 12:04 | 20 |
|
HI there,
I felt this was the best place to put this, but feel free to move it.
My Kadett/Astra has recently not been running smoothly. I suspected
that it was not firing on all cylinders, but my mechanic said this was
not the case. He replaced the points, checked the timimg and said it should be
ok, but it was'nt much better.
Basically the problem is that it is "jumpy" on acceleration, can't seem
to smoothly pick up speed. It is at it's worst when cold.
Could it be a compression problem? fuel line?, electrics?
Any suggestions appreciated!!!
Thanks
John
|
963.63 | | JUMBLY::DAY | No Good Deed Goes Unpunished | Thu Mar 08 1990 12:26 | 5 |
| Carburettor (I shouldn't have to spell things like that first thing
in the morning) might bear looking at. That and/or muck in fuel line.
m
|
963.65 | Camshaft wear? | MARVIN::RUSLING | MicroServer Phase V Session Control | Thu Mar 08 1990 13:13 | 4 |
| They're notorious for Camshaft wear at 30-40K, a friend's Cam collapsed, in
Switzerland, luckily he had AA cover...
Dave
|
963.66 | Clean that carb! | TLE::LEGERLOTZ | I came. I saw. I left. | Thu Mar 08 1990 16:52 | 20 |
| I would try to clean the carb with some spray cleaner (Gum-out or STP). I've
always found that it does wonders for cold starting, and the responsiveness of
the throttle.
If you want to check YOURSELF that the engine is running on all cylinders get a
wet sponge, or a cup with some water in it. Start the engine and let it run for
a minute. Drip a some water onto the exhast manifold, right next to the
cylinder that you suspect is not running. The water will bubble (or at least
evaporate quickly) if the cyclinder is firing. If the cyclinder isn't firing,
the water will just sit there, or soak into the *rust* on the manifold. You
have to make sure that the engine hasn't been running too long - if that's the
case the entire manifold may be hot enough to boil the drop of water.
People I've know have said: "Take a plug wire off, see if the engine runs any
different (if it does, then the cyclinder is firing), and then put it back on
and move to the next plug wire..." That sounds simple enough, UNTIL YOU GET
SHOCKED. Believe me the water trick is safer.
-Al
|
963.67 | | GALVIA::MOREAU | John Moreau | Fri Mar 09 1990 16:06 | 9 |
|
Thanks for the help Lads!
It turned out to be some brass fitting in the distributor (?????)
Cheers
john
|
963.68 | What does the flasher look like? | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Mon Mar 12 1990 15:28 | 13 |
| The mini saga continues...
The mini now sports a new wing (black) and bit-of-the-valance-where-the-
indicator-mounts (white). Not the world's neatest welding job, but I don't
think this wing will fall off. Ever. A bit of filler to fill the gaps, then
I'd better spray it orange to match the rest of the car.
Most of the electric problems were due to age-loosened connections, but it will
need a new horn and flasher unit. Is the flasher unit the small aluminium can
mounted on the bulkhead in between the wiper motor and the hole for all the
instrument wiring? Should it rattle when shaken?
Scott.
|
963.69 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Tue Mar 13 1990 11:04 | 8 |
| Sounds like the right place from memory. They do rattle a little when
shaken, or at least the larger variety ones do (two inch long, tubular
three connectors, bolting onto bulkhead).
If they flashers simply don't flash, check the earthing ... this is a
common problem with minis.
Mark
|
963.70 | Do the indicators work? Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Tue Mar 13 1990 12:58 | 4 |
| The indicators come on, and stay on without flashing. The flasher unit is old
type with two connections. Doesn't sound like an earth problem to me, unless
you know something I don't?
Scott
|
963.71 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Tue Mar 13 1990 13:02 | 7 |
| When I had this type of problem with my mini, it was a bad earth,
usually at the front indicator. The lights came on, but wouldn't
flash. No idea how this can be, but it was always the earth between
the indicator assy and the body. Just try linking it across to the body
and see what happens ...
Mark
|
963.72 | Easy really!!!! | VOGON::KAPPLER | John Kappler | Tue Mar 13 1990 14:01 | 4 |
| The indicators won'tflash unless both frontand rear bulbs are working.
If the front (or rear) light assembly is not earthing, then this
creates the same situation as a blown bulb, so flasher unit doesn't!
|
963.73 | A highly complex precision device....it isn't! | UKCSSE::RDAVIES | Live long and prosper | Tue Mar 13 1990 16:28 | 17 |
| These units are crude to the n'th degree!. They principally use two
connections, one from the switch, the other too the lights.
The current flowing to the lights heats up an element which bends a
bi-metalic strip, this breaks the circuit, and as it cools re-makes it,
which heats up and breaks it ,etc.... you see what I mean about crude!.
Anyway, as mentioned in -.1(or-.2?) it needs sufficient current,
provided by at least 2 lamps working. The third connection is often a
change-over on the contact that drives the dash warningh light. Thus
it's indicators / dash light / indicators / dash light / etc.
You could try taking it apart, and cleaning the contacts, but is it
worth it for a couple of quid?.
Richard.
|
963.74 | In case anyone's still interested... | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Tue Mar 27 1990 18:18 | 25 |
| Current state of play with the mini:
The indicators flash when the engine's revved; the battery's a bit flat so I'll
see if they're ok when it's charged.
A lot of the connections to the fuse box are dodgey, so I'm cleaning / replacing
them as appropriate.
The new wing is on, painted and with new lights. Just needs a final coat of
paint to match colour with the rest of the car.
Rest of car put back together.
Two new tyres and a new exhaust. There's a leak around the manifold somewhere,
so I'll take that off and fit a new gasket.
While it's off I'll have another go at the gear linkage; whereas I can get into
them all at rest, on the move second is a hit-and-miss affair...
Scrubbed out the inside, took off the tacky "bucket" seat covers... looks almost
respectable now!!!
Hopefully it'll pass an MOT at the weekend...
Scott.
|
963.76 | Why...? | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Wed Mar 28 1990 14:21 | 29 |
| Not sure why you suggest this. I've already done it anyway, though. The
battery leads are fine. I assume the engine earth strap is fine as the dynamo
is chucking out current (yeah, dynamo! remember them??). The only reason the
battey is now flat is because I've been continually starting the engine without
driving the car anywhere, just to check things work. Remember that the only
legal journey I can make is to an MOT station (it currently doesn't have one),
but I will take a rather long route to give it a good run!
The manifold problem was I think the nuts; they were only just finger tight.
Unfortunately I couldn't start the engine (battery now very flat!) to check if
the leaks are sealed: I didn't feel like push starting it alone (although it's
quite good fun!) at 9pm last night...
I think the gear linkage joints must be keyed, 'cos no matter how I adjusted
it, when I tightened it up it always went back to the same position. I'll see
how the gear change is on a decent run, and maybe take it to bits again after
that if necessary.
One final point: when I started it at the weekend, it seemed to only be firing
on three cylinders. After revving it for a few seconds things settled down and
all four were firing. I stopped the engine, and started it again: same thing,
only three cylinders (I assume so - the exhaust was going:
<pop> <pop> <pop> < > <pop> <pop> <pop> < > ...)
but after revving it a bit the fourth sprang to life. It might just be 'cos the
car's been sitting idle for so long and needs a good run to clean things out,
but does anyone have any suggestions? All the plugs are clean, in good
condition and correctly gapped.
Scott.
|
963.79 | Sounds good to me! | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Wed Mar 28 1990 14:48 | 5 |
| >> Mini's also need a good thrash now and then
OK Derek, fancy a race?? ;-)
Scott
|
963.80 | | CHEFS::KARVE | Shantanu Karve @REO (7)-830-4478 | Wed Mar 28 1990 15:18 | 11 |
| You sure you know where the battery is in a mini. I recall a couple
of women broken down, so big-he-man-me stops to help out... When
I found out that the engine wouldn't even turn, I said : "Aha, flat
battery...I'll give you a jump-start... I open the bonnet..., HUH?
NO BATTERY !
The women gently pointed out that the battery is somewhere by the
back seat. At which point I suggested they call the AA and fled!
-Shantanu
|
963.82 | | RUTILE::BISHOP | | Wed Mar 28 1990 17:02 | 11 |
| re ;-1
Had this problem once with a 850 mini. My friends first car. T'was
a great laugh, but anyway the battery was in the boot, right down
in the corner, and had the spare wheel 'plonked' on top. Took us
a while to find it, and by then it was dead because he left the
lights on (he crashed into some woods down a country lane!) - and
to make things worse it was p****ng down with rain! Oh those were
the days ;-)
Lewis.
|
963.83 | RE: Got a fire extinguisher | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Thu Mar 29 1990 16:31 | 19 |
| Funny you should say that, it's something I keep thinking about.
I keep a coal fire going in the footwell to provide winter warmth, and want
something to put it out if things get out of hand...
But seriously, if I wanted a car fire extinguisher, it seems sensible to get one
plumbed in. If the engine catches fire, by the time I've realised, got out, got
the bonnet open (assuming I can safely do so) and got an extinguisher out of the
boot it would probably be too late!!!!
What sort of extinguisher is best (foam, CO2, powder, halon, etc)?
Where should it be plumbed in (under bonnet, by fuel tank, etc)?
How is it activated (manually, auto (eg wax seal on spray melts in heat))?
How much do they cost?
How big need it be to cope with any fire I might get on the road (as oppoosed
to racing!)?
I won't bother for the mini, but it could be worth it in the future...
Scott.
|
963.84 | Corrections please, Derek! | IOSG::MITCHELL | Elaine | Thu Mar 29 1990 18:08 | 17 |
963.85 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Thu Mar 29 1990 19:30 | 6 |
| re: .74 or something like that ...
Could be a plug lead or the distributor cap causing it to run on
three for a while and then four.
Mark
|
963.86 | If you laugh, I'll hit you... | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Fri Mar 30 1990 14:43 | 19 |
| Today's un-funny joke:
Q: What do you call a mini with a severely worn clutch release bearing?
A: Scott's :-(
Last night was the first time I've run it with an exhaust on, hence the first
time it was quiet enough for the clutch to be audible. It doesn't sound too
bad, an even rubbing noise whenever the pedal is pressed, but I'm not sure how
quickly it will deteriorate from here.
It's possible to replace the bearing with the engine / gearbox in the car, but
rather a long job. I think I shall leave it for the time being; at least the
clutch works!
It's off for an MOT tomorrow, so fingers crossed... (I can't find anything it
should fail on, I think it will depend on what mood the tester is in!)
Scott.
|
963.87 | This weekends job - definitely! | IOSG::MITCHELL | Elaine | Fri Mar 30 1990 15:55 | 7 |
|
>> I think I shall leave it for the time being; at least the
>> clutch works!
You're not making a dig at my Landy, by any chance ? :-(
Elaine
|
963.88 | Sorry! | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Fri Mar 30 1990 18:49 | 3 |
| No, sorry, no thoughts of your Landy at all. All I meant was while it still
worked I'd leave it alone. Good luck for the weekend Elaine!
Scott
|
963.89 | At least the weather forcast is good! | IOSG::MITCHELL | Elaine | Fri Mar 30 1990 19:03 | 7 |
|
I've got to get the Landy fixed this weekend, Derek wants to put the
'body' back on the 23, and that means we have got to get the bits out of
the back garden, through the living room, and 'through' the space in
front of our front door, which is currently occupied by dead Landrover!
- I've suggested he do the clutch himslef if he is so anxious to get it
shifted, but he declined my offer...........
|
963.90 | Blue Monday | IOSG::MARSHALL | | Mon Apr 09 1990 13:58 | 40 |
963.91 | Golf Starting is Tense! | SUBURB::SCREENER | Robert Screene, UK Finance EUC | Thu Dec 12 1991 19:57 | 53 |
963.92 | common problem on old for starters. | UBOHUB::BELL_A1 | | Thu Dec 12 1991 21:10 | 12 |
|
Hi Rob,
I used to have a similar problem with an old ford. The very nice man
from the AA told me that I needed a new battery because it started when
fully charged, but the battery was new and the problem was a deformed
motor shaft, with the oil thickening in the cold and the battery
loosing charge the excessive friction of the motor gave the impression
that the battery was flat (I'm not to sure what shape it should have
been)..
Alan.
|
963.93 | there's always one.... | LARVAE::HUTCHINGS_P | Manchester City | Fri Dec 13 1991 15:43 | 5 |
| Alan,
Batteries are usually, and correct me if I'm wrong, a sort of
tubular shape, with a pointy bit on the top...
:-) :-) :-)
|
963.94 | better tell her in case it leaks...... | ODDONE::BELL_A1 | | Fri Dec 13 1991 16:23 | 8 |
|
Paul,
and there I was thinking that that was a........(nah I won't say
it.... :-) ), that the misses called a 'massager)
, Alan
|
963.95 | Starter Fixed Quite Easily | SUBURB::SCREENER | Robert Screene, UK Finance EUC | Tue Feb 11 1992 12:23 | 37 |
963.96 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | Hypodeemic nerdle | Mon Jan 11 1993 15:36 | 20 |
| My wife's Yugo 511 (1100cc) has developed an intermittant starting
problem.
The other day it wouldn't start from cold. When you turned the ignition
on, the red lights displayed on the dashboard, but when you turned the
key fully to crank the engine, absolutely nothing happened. There was
no click at all. After bump starting the car it fired fine and I
thought no more about it as I thought it was the battery that was low
(the car had been left for several days).
Since then the car has had constant use and the problem has reappeared
today. If its not a low battery is it likely to be the starter or
the ignition switch itself ?
Any thoughts or similar experiences ? (Apart from suggestions about
buying a real car :-) )
Thanks
Roy
|
963.97 | try your earths... | FORTY2::MITCHELL | | Mon Jan 11 1993 15:47 | 4 |
|
You could try cleaning the earth straps.....
Elaine
|
963.98 | or any heavy-duty electrical connections | PEKING::SMITHRW | Err..... | Mon Jan 11 1993 16:04 | 15 |
| Agreed. I had exactly this with my Beetle (a long time ago...). The
battery seemed fine except for a total no comment from the starting
equipment. Not even a click from the solenoid. Cleaned the battery
terminals and VROOOM!
My 2ic had the same problem with his Granada - I told him to clean his
terminals and it was sorted.
Can't hurt...
Richard
|
963.99 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | Hypodeemic nerdle | Mon Jan 11 1993 16:48 | 10 |
| I'll clean the battery terminals tonight and put on some peroleum jelly.
I did disconnect and reconnet both terminals when I first had the
problem and it made no difference. The bump start at that time cured
the problem.
As there was no "click" I've been advised that it could be the solenoid
thats faulty.
Roy
|
963.100 | | COMICS::WEGG | Some hard boiled eggs and some nuts. | Mon Jan 11 1993 17:08 | 5 |
| Could be either solenoid or the starter motor jammed. Next time it
happens, try putting the car in gear and rocking it slightly -
then retry.
Ian.
|
963.101 | :-} | SIOG::KANE | The clot, thickens... | Mon Jan 11 1993 18:13 | 1 |
| I'd just put on some petroleum jelly & forget the car...
|
963.102 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | Hypodeemic nerdle | Mon Jan 11 1993 20:01 | 8 |
| Thanks folks for comments (except .-1 :-) ).
The car was eventually started after the starter motor received a little
bash. I guess this means that it is the solenoid thats a bit dodgy.
Roy
|
963.103 | And now it's my turn with a Citroen AX | VARDAF::CHURCH | Dave Church@VBE (DTN 828-6125) | Fri Apr 25 1997 17:31 | 44 |
| If you've got problems starting, eg. engine turns/cranks slowly
[sometimes a little faster then a little slower then..] and you keep
the key in the "start" position for say 10+ seconds trying to get it to
start [or trying to understand the problem/cause] - could you end up
"frying" some of the wiring? [frying == wire gets hot and starts to
melt the plastic covering].
I thought I read in the [why_dont_they_warn_you_that_you_have_to_
remove_10_other_things_to_get_this_one_bolt_out] Haynes manual that you
shouldn't crank the engine for more than 10 seconds at a time...
So if you did notice say that the wiring from the top of the front
suspension struts that's grounded to the car body near the front head
lights starts to go a strange texture and is pretty warm [one time
almost smoking] could this show that you've a short circuit somewhere
or is it as expected because you've been cranking too long or...?
Basically I've replaced the battery [car's 5+ years old], cleaned up
battery connections, the engine/body earth points that I've found
[battery to body, battery to engine plus 2 points near headlights
(mentioned above) for some of the "lighter" wiring]. I've also pulled
out the starter motor stripped it down etc. and all looks okay, cleaned
up the connections from the +ve battery terminal over to the starter
motor etc. I also had a quick look at the alternator... Tried a
different starter motor and 2 alternators from a breakers yard... and
still it turns slowly... I also wondered if it was the gubbings in
"behind" the key because I found sometimes that if you turned the key
fully [to try and start it] and then brought the key back slightly it
seemed to improve the speed of the starter motor/cranking/turnover and
so start it quicker. The last couple of days I tried it full on again
and I now pretty much getting the same results...
Once I get it started, which in the morning is normally longer than
lunchtime/hometime start, then it's perfectly normal functioning car...
I'm wondering about "jumping" the key assembly but I don't want to
start screwing things up...
Any suggestions apart from changing the driver, buying a new car,
taking it to a garage [that's my last ditch effort 'cause it'll no
doubt cost a lot of dosh while they prance around looking for the
cause...]...?
Dave
|
963.104 | long circuit methinks | BIS6::BROWN | | Fri Apr 25 1997 19:35 | 32 |
| It certainly sounds like an earthing problem.
I would not have thought that any significant current would be intended
to pass through the earth link you appear to describe, so it sounds
like one of the main earth straps between battery, body and engine is
high resistance.
The one you describe as getting hot sounds a little strange. You said
it runs from the strut top to the body near the front panel. I assume
that there is also a strap from the strut top to the engine or other
body panels. The exact route of this one (which actually seems to be
carrying the current) might give you a pointer to where the actual
problem lies.
In any case, I would say that your problem is more a long circuit than
a short circuit! Are you sure that there are no straps missing? I
could well imagine that there should be a strap between one of the
starter motor bolts and the body.
Incidentally, I remember working on an old Austin A40 some years back
where the owner complained that the choke cable kept sticking. In fact
the earth strap was missing, and the only real path to earth during
starting was the choke cable. This was then effectively welded! His
local dealer kept swapping the cable for a new one (4 times would you
believe) before he brought it in to us.
Good luck finding your problem
Chris
|
963.105 | Prove with jump leads | CHEFS::LINCOLN_J | | Fri Apr 25 1997 20:47 | 9 |
| Sounds very like a bad/missing engine to chassis strap
as described before.
If you have some jum leads connect one from the
battery ground side to the engine/starter motor and
see what effect it has.
-John
|
963.106 | I'll certainly jump to it | VARDAF::CHURCH | Dave Church@VBE (DTN 828-6125) | Mon Apr 28 1997 11:40 | 32 |
| .104
Chris,
Umm - as far as I can see all the straps are there - the only
wires/straps from the top of the front suspension structs are those
going to either side of the front panel [just beside the headlight
assembly]. I've kept on meaning to check out the wheel housings to see
what's around in this area...
Interesting you mention the clutch cable because there's been a couple
of times when I've been driving along and I've wondered if my eyes were
deceiving me because I thought the choke light was flickering ever so
slightly [when the choke was being used after just starting the car].
My main concern is that the trouble lies behind the dashboard and this
is one area I don't fancy trying to get into.
Anyway looks like it's back to the good old Haynes wonderful wiring
diagram just to see where it says there's more earthing points...
.105
John,
Not sure if I've already tried this but I'll certain give it a go just
to make certain...
Thnx guys
Dave
|