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Conference terri::cars_uk

Title:Cars in the UK
Notice:Please read new conference charter 1.70
Moderator:COMICS::SHELLEYELD
Created:Sun Mar 06 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2584
Total number of notes:63384

830.0. "Starion 2.0ex turbo intercooler" by KERNEL::PHIPPEN () Thu Nov 02 1989 20:33

    
    Anybody out there got any views on the STARION 2.0EX TURBO.
    
    I'm thinking about buying one of these cars, But like the Nissan
    300zx turbo they seem to depreciate really quickly, And they seem
    to have a cloud looming over them as far a reliability goes.
    
    Is it just a case of a bad reputation sticking with a car, like
    it has done for Fiat and Alfa.
    
    I drove a 1986 starion recently and thought it was a really good
    car, Full leather interior,electric everthing, Really good
    excellaration and handling which put my Rs turbo to shame.
                                                              
    But all the older one i've seen for sell (Y,A,B) seem to have had
    
    NEW TURBOS
    
    CLUTCHES
    
    GEARBOXES
    
    etc
    
    I will probably but a 1987 (D) if I get one, But it make you wonder
    whether it will only last a year or so.
    
    
    Also
    
    Any comments on the
    	
    		Nissan 300zx turbo
    		2.8i celica supra
    
    All very similar cars aimed a the same market I presume
                   
    
    Cheers 
    
    Jason
    
    
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830.14Go for the 2l StarionSHIRE::MANNSBERGERGuenter Mannsberger, EHQ GenevaMon Jun 25 1990 19:3488
    
    	Sorry, I didn't see this note earlier.
    
    	I'm wondering what came out of the original question (a Nissan or
    	a Starion ?)
    
    	I'm owning an '83 Starion for nearly 7 years now and I'm so happy
    	with it, that I even went thru the pain to get it registered in
    	Switzerland when I moved from Austria to Geneva.
    
    	In my opinion, it's not comparable with the Nissan's. I agree with
    	the earlier reply saying it eats 200SX's for breakfast and the 300
    	is much heavier but with more torque and different handling.
    	I think the Starion is a dangerous machine if you push it to the
    	limit, the Nissan's may be handling more predictable.
    
    	BTW, someone mentioned the 2.6l model - that's not a Starion (in my
    	view, thats an American car desguised as a Japanese) It has less
    	power but more weight ...
    
    	The best model is the one with the 2l engine PLUS intercoole putting
    	out about 180HP (in Germany). I think the last production year was
    	88, maybe 87. Mine is the 2l without intercooler having 170HP and
    	you don't find this acceleration to a compareable price elsewhere.
    
    	For the handling, I attended some Ralley-Courses with it and I have
    	to admit, that it takes a lot of skills and anticipation to keep it
    	on the road and not spinning off. There are other cars much easier
    	to be controlled and showing more clearly to the driver whats up in
    	the next fraction of a second. I think the problem is weight
    	distribution, it lacks weight on the rear end and looses traction
    	very easy with the powerful turbo engine. E.g. if you're entering
    	a corner very "hot" you have to fight some understeer, once you're
    	in and applying power the thing swings around like a pendulum into
    	heavy oversteer. This behavior is influenced very much by the tyres
    	you're using and how slippery (snow, rain) the road is. In the
    	winter (and usually in Austria/Switzerland we have a lot of snow)
    	I even go sideways around corners in the city at 50km/h, its just
    	too much power at the rear with too less weight. This combined with
    	the turbo-lag and pretty sharp turbo kick makes it a bit dangerous
    	as said before. During the sessions on frozen lakes and iced parking
    	lots, even our instructor a former European Ralley Cross champion
    	spun out with my car several times until he got the gripe and told
    	me, how to overcome it. If you like this challenge then its OK,
    	otherwise dont try it.
    
    	For reliability, I know some other Starion owners counting their
    	replaced clutches and turbochargers and the like. The commonality
    	is, it depends on how you treat your car. So you should know the
    	behavior of the former owner when you buy it used.
    	My car has now 125000km on the clock, first engine, first turbo
    	second clutch, second set of brake pads (I don't brake too often ;^)
	brake discs refurbished, second exhaust. The radiator is leaking
    	water somewhere, but couldn't find the hole yet. The oilpressure
    	is a bit low since half a year or so, but it doesn't need oil and
    	the performance is still good, so I don't mess around with opening
    	the engine. And after I replaced the second motor-driven antenna
    	I have enough of it and use now a windscreen type.
    
    	The treatment. This engine uses the old type of oil-cooled turbo,
    	it means you should NEVER shut down the hot engine (e.g. going long
    	and fast on a motorway, enter a petrol station and turning ignition
    	off - this kills the turbo). The turbo glows dark red, you stop the
    	engine - you stop the oilflow and the oil boils in the turbo bearings,
    	which will be "baked" to a standstill and damaged over time. So, let
        the engine idle for a minute to allow the turbo to cool down and
    	spin slower befor you shut off everything.
    
    	For the clutch/gearbox problems. I found out, the gearbox doesn't
    	like gear changes at high revs. It needs some "force" to do that
    	while revving near red-line. I thought this will not do any good to
    	the box (and clutch, because you start helping with the clutch) so
    	I simple change gear earlier, when it still "feels smooth". And I
    	have no troubles with the transmission so far.
    
    	The trouble I have is rust. Both of the bloody doors started
    	rusting at the lower edges, where the rainwater which is running down
    	the screens, penetrating the (non-effective) seals is leaving the
    	interieur of the doors at the bottom. (Excuse my english, I hope
    	you can picture what I mean). There is nothing I can do about it,
    	and this will put an end to my doors and probably the car in a year
    	or two maximum.
    
    
    	Love it, or hate it,
    	Guenter.
    
    
830.16glad someone mentioned DDC...IOSG::MARSHALLArgle Bargle IVMon Jun 25 1990 21:346
I've been trying double de-clutching; can someone explain exactly how to do it
so I can get it right?
At the revs achievable by us mere mortals, is it worth doing, or should I just
let the synchromesh take the strain?

Scott
830.17Here we go again?MARVIN::RUSLINGMicroServer Phase V Session ControlMon Jun 25 1990 21:5135
Oh, no not double declutching again!  You obviously weren't paying attention
Friday lunchtime, but here goes:

How to change down using the double de-clutch  method and sustained revs:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Depress clutch with left foot, keep right foot on accellerator, do not ease
	off.   At this point, your revs start to rise, this
	is ok, this is what you want.
2) Move gear lever into neutral. 
3) Raise clutch.  At this point, the lay shaft in the gearbox is rotating
	the wheels, in a very short time it is synchronised with the road
	speed.
4) Depress clutch.  
5) Move gear lever into gear wanted.  Engine now joined to lay shaft and 
	spinning at the same speed and, theoretically, synchronised with
	the road speed.
6) Raise clutch (smoothly!).  Hey presto!  The wheels, gearbox and engine
	are all spinning together.

Notes:
------

If you are going to try this out, try it out safely.  For example choose a
long straight road with no one behind you when you're in 4th or 3rd.

This only works if you seperate out your braking and gearchanging.  (Yes, I
know about heel-and-toe!)

You could do all of the above without the double de-clutch, just keep your
foot on the accelerator as you change down.

Doing it properly enhances smoothness and lengthens the lifetime of all of the
bits involved (driveshafts and clutch, mainly).  Doing it wrongly increases
wear and tear.
830.18Could there be anything major wrongAYOV11::CREIDTue Jul 21 1992 09:487
    
         Could someone please give me some info on what to look out for
         in these cars E.G. bad points to look for when buying second hand,
         as i'm going to buy either a G reg 1989 model with 58OOO on the 
         clock or a E reg 1988 model with 50000 on the clock.
         B.T.W the G reg is a 2.6 & the E reg is a 2.0.
         Any replys would be most welcome.