Conference terri::cars_uk

    Extremely silly question, maybe..
    
    Can you 'flood' a car with fuel injection as opposed to a carb ??
    
    Rich
    

    I inadvertantly filled my car up (full tank's worth) with un-leaded
    instead of regular. Contrary to expectations of pinking, knocking, and
    poor performance the car has been running sweet as a nut.
    
    I was wondering whether I could carry on using unleaded petrol, without
    re-tuning the car, and just put the occasional tank of regular through.
    (ratio of 4:1, unleaded:regular, has been mentioned)
    
    What does the panel think ?
    
    The engine is a straight-forward 1800cc carb' Golf.
    
    AmS

    Depends on the build year, and whether the manufacturer's claim it's
    suitable. The main concern is whether your valve seats are hardened.
    
    Richard

Any Golf can use 98 octane unleaded without change, because they all have
hardened valve seats. However, not all Golfs can use the lower octane unleaded.
In particular, at least the early 16v Golf GTIs couldn't and the pre-87 (approx)
ordinary GTIs need to have the ignition retarded.  If yours is not a GTI then I
believe that it can use ordinary unleaded without change.  When it was available
you could also have used 2*.

Still, best to chaeck with VW to be sure.

Mike.

    I understand that its OK to use unleaded once in a while without
    damaging your engine, though your car is set for leaded only.
    
    This I believe is due to the fact that with the regular use of
    leaded there is deposit in the valves, consequently there is enough
    "lubrication" to cope with the odd tank of unleaded.
    

    re .33
    
    add
    
    Provided the Octane rating is equal to or above the required Octane
    rating of the engine.
    
    If engine set for 97/98 RON and you try using 95 RON unleaded you're
    heading for trouble.

    I guess this is a silly Qn...I'll delete if I get an answer...
    
    Is Mark Saxby still out there?  Or anyone know where he is?
    
    TA!!
    
    Mikef

Yes...he notes under SAXBYM

he's around somewhere...

    
    Here I am!!!!! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    Perhaps not so silly.
    
    Does anyone know what a Vauxhall Albany is?
    
    It's listed in A&M's new car price list, but I don't recall ever seeing
    such a thing on the road.
    
    Mark

    Albany is, I think, a Bedford Midi van (about Hiace size) with windows
    and plush seats. They are trying to get on the Espace bandwagon on the
    cheap.
    
    Ford are doing the same with the Executive, which is a Tranny minibus
    with plush seats and a 2.9 V6.
    
    Steve

yep, that's right: the Albany is a nicely trimmed 7 seater, with a bit more
internal room than an Espace.

/. Ian .\

    
    Thanks.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Does anyone know the phone number of an insurance brokers named
    Wiltons?
    
    

Why does the temp gauge on my Landy occasionaly rise up to RED as if over
heating and then drop back down to below normal.

Simon

Re.42:

This commonly happens when the water coolant is frozen (normally overnight
but with the current weather...), when you start the engine the coolant
heats up around the thermastat giving high readings, and then as the ice melts,
and the coolant circulates, it cools the thermastat rapidly to below normal.

/Dave.

RE: .42

It also happens when you have air pockets in the cooling system.

Jim

    Re last two.....
    
    what happened to the antifreeze? or are landy's immune to cracked
    blocks etc. I **KNOW** they're built like the proverbial tank, but
    that's stretching the point a bit....

Plenty of Water and Anti_freeze...



			except when it leaks          :-(

Thermostat not opening soon enough or the wrong temp. range for the engine?

I think I maight have a slight 'stat leak, amongst others.

Simon


:-(

    
    Does anyone have an algorithm for working out APR?
    
    Mark

    
    algorithm for apr ? dunno how about a progression along the lines of:
    
    suppose you borrow x pounds at n % at r repayment, then interest per 
    month might be :
    
     mo 1       month 2           month 3                 month 4
    xn-x  | (xn - r)n - x  | (n(xn - r) - r )n - x |  (n(n(xn-r)-r)-r)n - x
    xn-x      xnn-rn-x         xnnn-rnn-rn-x            xnnnn-rnnn-rnn-rn-x
    
    etc 
    
    It's a long long time since I did pure maths so someone else will have
    to simplify it 'coz I've forgotten how ;-) ( Fun trying for 5 mins tho' 
    8*) )
    
    			Nik.
                            

    Crudely speaking, just double the "flat" rate.
    

    I have managed to break the ignition key of my wife's Metro.
    
    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the snapped off bit out
    of the ignition lock?
    
    Ian.

If there's enough of the key left sticking out of the lock, then you could try
using fine point pliers or forceps to try and pull it out (I've used this method
will an elderly Volvo).

Failing that, the only two courses of action that I can think of are dismantling
the old lock (not easy - may need special tools or improvisation), or 
replacement. The fact that the key snapped off on the lock might indicate a 
fault in the tumblers, which could mean that you will be better off fitting a
new lock assembly.

You could always 'hot wire' the ignition I suppose!

Dick

    re broken key removal
    
    Try slipping a thin hacksaw blade next to the key and using the teeth
    of the saw blade to grab on to the key stub.
    
    Good Luck
    Barry

ref .54

    Buy a new car :-)

    Re: .59
    
    > Hot wiring the car would have got it going, but would have proved
    > tricky at the first corner!
    
    I don't understand the connection.
    
    Jeff.

    Steering lock perhaps?
    
    Mat.
    *:o)
    

    Loadsa cars get stolen without keys so the question is....
    
    How do you "break" a steering lock? 
    

    Brute force or a slide hammer....
    
    Ian.

I have a piece of my door key left in the lock.  I tried to get it out by
dismantling the barrel, but no luck.  Fortunately, the bit of key that's left
still works, but I now have to carry ANOTHER door key in order to lock/unlock
the boot and glove-box!  Needless to say, Alfa won't sell me a replacement 
barrel; I have to buy a complete door handle assembly -- and I'd still have to
carry two sets of door keys around with me.  :-(

Has anyone actually tried the super-glue idea?  Maybe I'll be the first!

Brian

    I always thought the trick was to drill a hole in the part left in the
    lock.
    
    Can't for the life of me remember what you did afterwards, perhaps
    superglue the drill into the key then pull ?????

    If the broken part is flush with the outside surface of the lock, would
    it be possible to drill into it with a real tiny drill say number 50
    and then use a small 12BA tap to extract the broken bit?
    
    You might need to make a slim centre dot punch to start the drill to
    stop it from wandering off the key stub......

    If the stup of the key still works, why not remove the barrel, and poke
    out the fragment from the other side?
    
    Assuming that the internals are a bit like a Yale lock.
    
    When some kind soul restyled the back end of my Grandad a couple of
    years back, the repairers got a set of tumblers from the local Fraud
    garage, and rebuilt the petrol cap lock. That is, of course, no help
    whatever, but makes conversation.
    
    Steve

>    If the stup of the key still works, why not remove the barrel, and poke
>    out the fragment from the other side?


I had the barrel out with the intention of doing this, but it turns out to be
a machined part with no hole to poke from the other end.  :-(  The broken off
bit is quite deep inside the barrel and getting to it is tough - even the 
thinest pair of snipe-nose pliers I own couldn't grip it.  The problem seems
to me to be getting sufficient of a grip to overcome the resistance of the
sprung levers .... hence the superglue sounded like a fairly good shot.  I
haven't tried it yet - no glue!

Brian

    Re .-1
    
    Brian, while there is no hole on the inner side, why don't you make
    one? (Very small of course)
    
    Hans

    Probably the daftest idea yet:
    
    Lubricate the lock with WD40 to give it the best chance. Tie a piece of
    string (2metres long?) so that the lock hangs with the axis parallel to
    the string.
    
    Then swing it around your head as fast as possible.
    
    It is *just* possible that the fragment will come out by centrifugal
    force.
    
    But I really doubt it!

    
    You could always tip the car on its side ;^)

    re.64
    Brian,
      Have you given the suggestion in .57 a try? It works on "Merican"
    cars, should work on yours :-)
    
    Barry

re .73

	Didn't know Alfa Romeos were Merican  :-) :-)

    Brian,
     It works on "merican" cars and should work on British cars, Italian
    cars may take a different technique. I would suggest filling your mouth 
    with cotton balls and mumbling in your best Marlon Brando voice "I'm a
    gonna make you an offer you can't refuse" while you slip the saw blade
    in :-)
    
    Barry 

Well, I can't figure how I can get a thin blade down there anyway.  It's not
big enough for very thin snipe-nose pliers (even half of them), so a blade is
out of the question.

Talking of silly questions .....

What's the significance of D Mitchell's notes personal name?  I can't figure 
it out!

	Brian

    Brian, 
     Maybe we aren't speaking the same language :-)
    I'm talking about using the toothed cutting part of a hack saw.
    I'm not sure what you'd call it. Its about 1 meter long and about 1-2
    millimeters wide and maybe 5 cm tall. It goes in a open sided
    rectangler device? What do you call it?
    Anyway, you slip it next to the key and try to catch the edge of the key 
    stub with the tooth of the saw blade.
    
    Barry_who's_thinking_of_studying_"English"_as_a_second_language :-)
    
    

    I've some jeweller type pliers, screwdrivers etc. etc. at home e.g.
    very small if you want a borrow.
    
    Rich
    

    Anyone know the 'phone number for Safety Devices ?
    
    Or if not that, how about the town they are in -
    so's I can ask Directory Enquiries ...
    
    J.R.

    
    demon tweeks    0829-70625
    ripspeed        081-803-4355
    
    They both sell roll bars etc . don't know the name and phone number
    of real manufactuers..
    
    	Garry

    
    >> Anyone know the 'phone number for Safety Devices ?
    
    Got the bug, John?
    
    Mark

    Forgot that I had this one tucked away....
    
    
    
    	Saftey devices/Aley Bars
    
    	176 Exning Road
    	Newmarket 
    	Suffolk
    	
    	Tel: 0638-661421
    	Fax: 0638-663340
    
    
    
    	Garry

Well, I don't know what you use for keys/locks on your cars, but I couldn't
even squeeze a broken coping saw blade into my lock, never mind a hacksaw
blade!  Q: How does something 1 cm tall and 2 mm thick get into a hole that
is squiggly, less than 6 mm tall and about 2 mm think and has a piece of key
stuck deep inside it?  I *did* manage to get a VERY thin spring puller (ex LT33
days) into the lock, but it wasn't strong enough to pull the piece of key.  I
now have a straight spring puller :-(

Brian

(I have problems with these Americans too. I think my Lancashire accent confuses
them!)

    re.87
     
    Brian,
      I give up trying to explain how I can take out a piece of key, using
    a piece of saw blade. An inperson demonstration is obviously needed.
    Please send roundtrip air fare from Colorado Springs, Colorado USA to
    Heathrow (spl?) Airport. Please meet me at the airport or send enough
    extra money for taxi fare or a rental car. I would also like to do some
    sight seeing while I'm there, do you have a spare room I could use
    during my stay???
    Many :-)
    
    Barry
    

Sorry, Barry - I moved from the UK to the US last year.  I'm in DC!
I still maintain that you can't shove a piece of hacksaw blade into an Alfa,
or even most other cars, door lock.  I did take a blade out the other night
just to check - it's impossible.  That said, if you're ever in DC, we do have
a spare room if you want to go sightseeing - and we're a real close hop to
the Metro system, so who needs a car anyway?? :-) :-)  (The invite goes for
any Deccie visiting the area, btw.  Just bring the duty-free malt whisky!)

It's snowing now, so it's too darned cold to worry about bits of key way down
inside locks.  It can wait for spring!

Brian

There are various sizes of 'hack saw blades'. Could it be you all are talking
apples/oranges? I *think* what is being refered to is a coping saw/jewelers
saw/sawzall saw blade. Ie: quite small, maybe 1/16-1/8 wide. I can't speak
for Alfas but one of these little beauties works on well on other cars I've
owned.

    re.90
    At last, a voice of reason, in a sea of confusion. ;-)
    
    Thanks
    Barry

Now that summer's here, I don't have the top up any more so it seems kind of
silly locking the door anyway!

Brian

PS - my coping saw blades have sticky-out bits at each end to notch them into
the saw.  These, of course, prevent such blades entering a door lock... :-) :-)

    Two questions...
    
    Can somebody please supply the general enquiry number for Thruxton.
    
    I'm assuming here that you can book ahead for specific events i.e. the
    touring car championship racing on the 27th May ?
    
    Ta,
    
    R
    

    ...and what's the other question??!!
    
    Colin

    Picky - alright then , one question and one assumption !!!
    
    R
    

    I have asked the question in 4WD notes conference, but I will
    now raise it here to see if I get any further info :-
    
    	I have been told that the 4.2 litre, 6-cylinder engine in a Jeep CJ7
    	(of 1978/79 vintage) is _apparently_ the same as that fitted to the
    	Bedford TK Truck.  Can anyone confirm this ?
    
    I didn't even know what a TK truck was (now I've got one ?), but a reply
    in 4WD said that it's the big things the Army use, both 2- and 4-WD.
    
    So, does anyone know anything about the engines in these vehicles ?
    eg, Are they six cylinder, What capacity are fitted, Are they the same ?
    
    At the time of manufacture of the Jeep, the owning company was AMC.
    At different times in their history, Jeep have 'belonged' to various
    companies (particular link with Renault at some time I think).  It is
    possible that GM owned the company (they liked it so much ;-) so there
    may be common engine fitments between different vehicles.  On the other
    hand, there may be no truth at all in the statement above...
    
    J.R.

    
    Haven't Jeep ALWAYS been owned by AMC? AMC and Renault had some tie up
    at one stage, but I don't think the Jeep bit ever belonged to Renault.
    
    Maybe GM owned AMC at some time?
    
    Mark

I think the TK is(was) the standard Army "3 tonner". I used to drive one of
these quite regularly some years ago. It did indeed have a 4.2 litre six
cylinder petrol engine. They were all four wheel drive (the ones I saw) and were
excellent vehicles - quite capable of out-dragging Land Rovers across sand and
along the whadis, even carrying a full one ton water tank on the platform.

I wasn't aware that the same engine was used in Jeeps - it surprises me somewhat
because these engines looked to be fearsomely heavy and large - must have been
a bit of squeeze to fit!

- John.

re Jeep ownership -- AMC was bought up by Chrysler Corporation some 
years back. As Chrysler's "Jeep/Eagle" division, they still make some
cars in the US in co-operation with Renault.

John

No Jeeps haven't "always" been owned by AMC: originally they were made by Willys
Overland (possibly spelled wrong), which became in turn the Jeep Corporation and 
American Motors before being bought by Chrysler.

The "French Connection" no longer exists (which is why Jeeps are now only 
available in Britain as "personal imports" through a small dealership or 
directly imported by the buyer.

Old style Jeeps (CJ3) are made under license by Mahindra in India (though
with Peugeot diesel engines) and sold in Britain at a reasonable price.

/. Ian .\

    I passed a **HUMUNGEOUS** pile of ex military stuff on the A38 between
    the end of the M42 and the route signposted "To the M1 North" on
    Friday.

>     <<< Note 731.103 by CHEFS::CLEMENTSD "Public Sector and Telecomms" >>>

That reads more like a statement than a question (silly or otherwise) to me...

Should it have been in "seen in passing" ?

    Re .104 .......
    
    Sorry ALFORD_J, but it's monday. I thought that I was entering a reply
    to the chap looking for an alternative engine for his jeep and was
    trying to add value to his question "Where do I get Military spares?"
    
    I suppose it goes to shoe that you can't win them all..... especially
    on a Monday!

    
    I think I know the place refered to in -1,and -3, it's near
    Burton-on-Trent, called Leavy's I think. If you want their 'phone
    number, they sometimes advertise in Land Rover Owner, or I could get
    it from my brother...
    
    Elaine
    

    Sound's about right, Elaine.

	My brother heard of a new tool for gripping the head of a nut
	where the corners have been chewed off. (It's too inaccessible for
	molegrips.)  He can't remember any more details.

	Anyone know what it's called and where I can get one ? - Halfords 
	and B & Q just looked their usual blank, unhelpful selves.

	Thanks, Peter

    I'll take one of those!! The amount of times one would've come in
    handy! 
    
    A little tip to all of you guys that have got Mig welders and who
    suffer from the problem of chewed nuts (brings tears to my eyes!)
    mig a bigger nut on top of the knackered one takes but a second and can
    save hours of hassles!
    
    Ian Proops.

Just inside the main gate at Blackbushe market. Goodness knows what they're
called though. They've been selling them there for years, I've never seen them
anywhere else.

To try and describe them -

One first glance, it looks like a ring spanned, until you realise that the ring
is an odd shape, sort of oval, and is actually hinged on the handle. The idea
being that you put the ring around the nut and as you put pressure on to turn in
the main part of the spanner swives and crushes up against it. They are quite
effective, they don't last very long and whilst they are less cumbersome than
mole-grips, they're not very good at getting into tight/curved places which is
where most rounded of nuts are.

Make sense ? No, it didn't to me either when I read it.

M.

    
    Edge driving sockets achieve the same effect, but you'll either need 
    a set, or only buy one when everything else has failed! (The approach
    I use! :^))
    
    Mark

    Ref. 108: Richmond do a range of spanners and sockets called
    "Metri-Inch". they grip the flat sides of nuts instead of the corners
    and work really well when the corners are rounded.  Magic for sump
    plugs and the like.  You can get them in Argos in sets. One set fits
    metric/AF/Whit/BSF etc.
    
    John  

    So, who is going to take a stab at explaining the 'edge drive'
    principle ?

    
    Well instead of gripping the corners of the nuts/bolts, these
    sockets/spanners have rounded 'corners' which, when turned, bear on 
    the flat edges of the nut/bolt.
    
    I have a bleed nipple on the Marcos' rear brakes which is almost
    circular, but the socket always gets it off. Very impressive.
    
    Mark

    If you consider that a bolt head is a simple hexagon, these
    sockets are shaped with a hexagonal 'cavity', of a larger size
    than the bolt head.  Instead of having flat sides, they are curved
    such that the midpoint of each curve bears on the centre of each
    flat on the bolt-head.
    
    Not easy to explain, not likely to get a VT-type drawing...
    
    J.R.

    Ah, I see !!!

    re: .115

    If you have managed to get the bleed screw off once, why not
    replace it ??? Or is it that now you have bought the special
    tool, you have to get your monies-worth out of it :-)

    
    Re .117
    
    Exactly! :^)
    
    Mark (Actually I can't be bothered to bleed the brakes again, but next 
    time they need it I'll replace the bleed screw.)

    
    Re .119
    
    Why?
    
    Mark

I remember them !

The magic spanner that works on the same principle as a pipe-wrench.

As you turn it, the angle between the "jaws" decreases, such that the 
same action is gripping the offending article and turning it at the same time.
Add some nice sharp serrations and they'll turn anything, including completely
cylindrical tubes.   Tends not to leave much of the original bolt intact, 
though......   

Last time I saw one was in in the Brookstones catalogue, so the odd "gadget"
companies like {shudder} Kaleidoscope might have them ?


IanP

    re. -1: Metri-Inch spanners do *not* destroy nuts.  There is one
    pressure point per flat of the nut.
    
    John

    Can anyone out there tell me of a supplier and a price for the
    material used in making soft-tops ?
    
    J.R.

There's a place in Addlestone that does soft-tops and other bits.
Dunno their name though.  Price will vary a lot depending on whether you want
vinyl, double-duck or mohair...

Scott

Try Carters the tent makers in Reading.

Simon

    Isn't there a specialist supplier of Soft top components called
    "Woolies". They rae somewhere is Leicestershire, I think. I'll try to
    dig out more details over the next few days. They've been referred to
    in Practical Classics, I think.

    The Frogeye Car Company in the Isle of Wight have rolls of the stuff.
    Try ringing Keith Brading on 0983-616616, he may be prepared to sell
    you some. He can certainly give you the name of a supplier/source.
    
    Laurie.

     Whilst under the car the other day, I noticed that one of the bolts which 
     hold the gearbox and engine to each other was hanging out.
     
     By the way, the last person to touch that bolt was the outfit 'Mr.Clutch' 
     (see the note mentioning their work in another topic).
     
     On moving the bolt, I found it had been threaded.
     
     Q: What is the best way to fix this problem?

1.  If just the bolt thread is stripped, go and buy a new bolt and fit it
2.  If the thread on the engine/bell housing into which the bolt is supposed to
    screw is stripped, go back to "Mr Clutch" and have a go at them.

Assuming that 2 doesn't get you anywhere:
3.  If the stripped thread on the engine/bell housing is on a "flange", you may
    be able, by using a longer bolt, to fit a nut the "other side" of the flange
4.  Tap a larger thread into the hole with the stripped thread, enlarge the
    hole in whichever of the engine/bell housing isn't threaded, and use a
    larger bolt
5.  Buy a new engine/bell housing!

    Re: -.1

    I would try a Helicoil before trying 3, 4 or 5.

    - John.

What's a helicoil?

     What's a helicoil and how is it used?
     
     Cheers,
     Robert.

It's a spring, that when inserted into a hole with stripped thread, will
*sometimes* enable you to screw in a bolt again. Often used to repair stripped
holes in alloy castings.

/Dave.

    Bit more detail....
    
    Helicoils are threaded inserts (bushes with thread on inside and
    outside). You drill out the hole with the stripped thread to a
    specified size, screw in the new one after cutting the thread for the
    outside of the insert with the supplied tap. The inseretion tool has a
    widget on the end that snaps off the bit that's not needed after
    insertion (piece across the diameter of the thread) and you have now
    replaced the original thread. Big plus is that you don't need to go to
    an oversize bolt. If you can (ie you can degrease the damaged part well
    enough), make sure that it doesn't come out with Loctite 601 or
    something similar. Helicoil even do kits that will allow you to
    "replace" stripped Plug threads in Cylinder heads....
    
    
    The kits usually come either as packs of inswerts or complete with tap,
    insertion tool and a few inserts to start you off....

Does the case of an ignition coil need to be earthed?

If so, what current does the earth wire need to be able to handle?  (I can't
bolt the coil directly to earthed bodywork, etc)

Scott

    Does anyone know if the 'oil' used by Citroen in the hydraulic system,
    in particular that of a BX, is in any way similar to ordinary vegetable
    oil e.g. Mazolo ?
    
    Rich
    

>    Does anyone know if the 'oil' used by Citroen in the hydraulic system,
>    in particular that of a BX, is in any way similar to ordinary vegetable
>    oil e.g. Mazolo ?
    
    The BX takes a mineral oil, or you can use engine oil in an
    emergency ( I have ). Vegetable oil is different and should not be
    used.
    
    Jay 

    Directions please to Coopers, the BMW dealer in Reading, from DP.
    
    Ta,
    
    R
    

Directions to Coopers

From DP, go up the A33, all the way to the IDR roundabout.  Round this, take
the exit before you go under the IDR for the second time.  You should now be
driving along between the IDR and the bus garage.

Straight ahead at the lights.  Left at the next lights (you can't go any other
way!) then straight on.  Left at the roundabout.  You'll now pass the prison
on your left and Queen's House on your right.

Turn right at the roundabout, under the railway, and Coopers is on the right...

	Ah, but it's not called Coopers or isn't a BMW dealer, one
	or t'other. BMW dealer is Vincents.

	Silly Question: Which countries still drive on the proper
	side of the road ie. LHD.

	-John

I know the mods of this conference like to check out the facts, but going off
to a BMW dealer to verify the "seen in passing" topic seems a bit too much ;-)

Jc

    I reckon Rich is off to have a gander at the new 3 series. Am I right
    Rich ?
    
    - Roy

re .143

Oops, maybe I'm thinking of the wrong garage... you'd better ring first and
check!

    Vincents changed to Coopers a couple of month's ago

    Re the question posed on driving on the Left.....
    
    UK, Japan, Oz, NZ, Zimbabwe and probably whatever other bits of Africa
    used to be coloured pink on maps, South Africa.........
    
    Any others? 

    
    Kenya...but in reality it's usually a case of wherever the potholes are
    the shallowest! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    re - a few back
    
    Vincents became Coopers about 3 or 4  months back
    

    
	Re: .145   Yep, got a test drive in the new 320i for the weekend.
    
    Things must be really tight for car dealers right now. I had a tst
    drive of the Saab 9000 XS last weekend. Nice car etc. etc. The guy from
    the dealership, knowing it was to be a lease car, called me a couple of
    days later asking, nay pleading, that if I should order the Saab could
    I give him the nod. He would then call PHH and make sure that his
    dealership got the order.
    
    I was supposed to go to the BMW 3-series launch last week but couldn't
    manage it. Coopers called the next day to inquire why I couldn't make
    it, was I still interested in the car and would I like to borrow a 320
    for a couple of days.
    
    Rich
    

    Must admit I was a bit surprised - normally it's the attitude that Roy
    details - oh, it's a lease car is it, well there are people in front of
    you who are willing to pay full price, i.e. punters off of the street,
    so why should I give the lease company n% when I can sell at near
    enough full price to Joe Public. 
    
    That was definitely the case about a year ago when I ordered a Mazda
    323f GT. Was told to go away and join the back of the queue. After
    about 6 months waiting I cancelled the car. I suppose with the
    recession, relatively high interest rates and an increased VAT per
    centage most garages are happy/desperate to sell to anybody right now.
    
    Ho hum.
    
    Rich
    

    I'll be surpised that the saab guy could wangle it, because the way the
    process goes, as I understand it is as follows. When you submit a quote
    hertz/phh get the best price from several(?) dealers. Whichever is
    cheapest between hertz & phh is the quote that goes on vtx.
    
    Once you order from a quote, it is the garage that gave this quote that
    devivers the car.
    
    Roy
    
    PS That is way _I_ understand it. Anyone know different ?

    Re: .154
    
    I think the garage, Reading Saab, wasn't too concerned with how PHH
    get the quote. All the garage has to do, if they know that I've ordered
    a Saab and they haven't given the original quote, is to match the PHH
    quote and then try and persude PHH to give them the order. I suppose
    it's just a question of calling Hertz and/or PHH to find which one of
    'em has a Saab ordered via Digital for a Mr. Morgan.
    
    Reading Saab were very helpful - offering to change steering wheels
    etc. etc. for no extra charge. As I said they must be desperate.
    
    Re: .155 
    
    They offered - I ain't gonna turn 'em down. Mind you it's gonna have to
    be sometihng special 'cos in general I think BMWs are extremely
    over-priced for what they are and for what you get. We have someone in
    the group here that calls them PGCs - Posy G**s Cars. No specific
    offence to any BMW driver inteneded
    
    R
    
    

    
    Re PGCs - You could accuse anyone with a better than standard car (Eg.
    Gti, GL, etc) of being a Posy G**. From my experience BMWs are actually
    TSCs - Two Speed Cars - the ones behind you want to go 20 mph faster
    than you and the ones in front 20 mph slower! :^)
    
    Mark

Not really a *silly* question but....


	I'm one of those people that beleive that the north starts north of
Watford and that if you drive up passed the Watford gap service station 
you will fall off the edge of the world:-)  Now being the bold adventurous (sp)
type I'm going to a place call Leeds on Friday night, I'm told that its further
north than Watford !!!!!!!!   


So far I've been told either to take the M1 all the way to Leeds or go
Via the M40, M42,M6 and then the M1. Can anyone tell me the best way to go, 
I'll be leaving Reading around 5:00pm ish on Friday....



			Mike....

    Will there ever be a two wheel drive motor bike made ??
    
    R
    

    
    Already has, but only in prototype form. It was on Top Gear last
    series.
    
    Mark

    Re: .159
    
    The M1 is a real bitch until the M6 junction, so going another way 'til
    that point is a sensible idea. Unfortunately i don't think that the M6
    to M1 junction allows you to go NORTH (but they are working on it!).
    
    You could always try M6 NORTH and take the M62 at Manchester, across
    the Pennines into Leeds.
    
    Or better still, set off 3 hours earlier or 5 hours later!
    
    mb

    You can cut off the M6/M1 corner by going M69 (up or down ;-) !!)
    
    You can cut out the M42 by going M40 to Warwick, A46 to Coventry and
    then M69 (all dual carriageway, but *watch* the signs on the A46, it's
    not a continuous route, although the number implies this!)
    
    JK

    re .159
    
    M1 is only bad around Leicester with the new junction they are
    building.
    
    Serious advice would be to take half a days holiday and leave before
    1pm if possible.
    
    I've done London to Leeds for the past 3 weeks.
    
    1st week left at 2, straight up the M1, got back at 7.30
    
    2nd week went via M6, to see me Mom, took 4 hours to Liverpool and then
    1 and a half hours across M62 to Leeds.
    
    Last week left at 1, got back at 5.30pm
    
    
    (All include half hour for wake-up coffee)
    
    I'd try A34, M40, M1 either later or earlier than 5pm. Other bad points
    is one accident can really slow you down..
    
    PS Where about's in Leeds?

>    PS Where about's in Leeds?
    
    This can make a lot of difference.
    
    It can easily take an hour to cross Leeds at the wrong time of day, and
    that is assuming that you don't get lost!
    
    mb
    
    p.s.
    
    Have they tarmaced the last bit of the M1 yet, it was cobbled until
    recently ;-)

do tyres wear down more in the rain or more in dry road conditions?


ta,


...art

>   PS Where about's in Leeds?


	No idea, I'll ask......I'm taking a friend up there you see she used to
	live there, however she does not know the best way to drive there....



>	Do you drive a BMW as well?

	Nope fraid not.... its a LOT worst than that :-))))




	Thanks for all the sugestions I'm going to get the mapo book out and 
have a good look I'll letr you lot know if I manage to make it :-)))



			Mike.

	Went to Leeds once way back in 70 something. It's the only
	time I've ever experienced one of those stacker type car
	parks.

	Drove into entrance and man said something about getting out
	of car, which I did. Before I knew it car was being whisked
	away on this hoist thingy and deposited in a hole in the wall.
	Fine I said to the operator, but you didn't tell me you were
	going to do that and I've left my cases in the car!. Went on
	a ride on the stacker up to where my car was to retrieve bags.

	I was a bit worried the thing was going to indulge in a bit
	of exhaust system ripping or other nasties, since there was
	this thing that went under the car and shoved it about.

	Didn't seem to catch on those stacker things. Wonder if it's
	still there.

	-John

    re .169
    
    Yep, there is a stacker in the centre of Leeds. I've never used it
    though!
    
    re cobblestones, They are put there to keep foreigners out, they think
    they've taken a wrong turn and go back - leaves more Tetley's for us!!
    
    
    Greg

    I've seen one (a stacker) in Central London.
    
    Jeff.

     
    I have one ( of sorts ) in the garage. 
    One car sits above the other, very popular here in Germany.
    
    
    

    There used to be a stacker (long gone now) near Southwark bridge in
    London. My colleagues and I used to spend lunchtimes watching the
    antics ....
    
    Driver arrives and requests car, operator pushes buttons, lift set off
    to programmed floor, does some shunting and retrieves car, returns to
    ground floor...... Driver shakes head. Lift takes wrong car back, and
    selects another ...... Driver shakes head ..... etc. etc.
    
    Better than playing with Computers!
    
    JK

 Still remember seeing a picture in a paper of a Sierra sticking out of the wall
of one of these places, as the thing had tried to stack 2 cars in the same place


		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    does it?
    
    I thought it leaned outwards, like any other self respecting small
    french car.
    
    Richard

Surely the way it leans is dependent on which side of the suspension has
prematurely collapsed, like any other self-respecting small french car

;-)

    Re: .176 - that's exactly the point of my question! :-)

    
    <Whisper On> 
    
    The Dyane is not a true car. It's actually a  "looney tune" car 
    in disguise... 8-)
    
    <Whisper Off>
    

    
    Does anyone know which car manufacturer used a tortoise/turtle as it's
    badge emblem?  

    
    Could be... there were lots of switches etc on the console. I've never
    heard of these cars before - do you know any more about them? 
    
    

	The 'Gordon Keeble' was a sixties 'supercar'. Like some
	equivalent Italian models it used a vast US V8 for power
	and drank petrol with enormous enthusiasm. There was
	something like 300lbf-ft of torque coming out, which as 
	one might imagine, particularly in the 60s, was mighty
	impressive.

	Also it was lightweight, fibre glass over a steel tube body,
	"half a mile of one inch square" I've heard it described as.

	Impressive performance yes, but not to my eyes very aesthetically
	pleasing being a shade angular. Only 99 were built before the
	outfit folded.

	You'll not be surprised to hear that an old friend had one of
	these beasts which is how I know something of it. Chap also
	had at about the same time Lotus Elite (original Climax model),
	Lotus Elan, Healy 3000 and a Monica, apart from the day cars
	of course.

	Whats a Monica?. Same as the GK, except it was 70s, French and
	steel. It also didn't sell very well, only 2 in the UK perhaps.

	-John

>was provided by a 4.6 litre V-8 ohc Chevrolet engine mated to a 4-speed 
                                 ^^^

Typo Dave or was Chevy holding out on us poor natives???

That's what it says in the book.  They might have meant 'ohv', but it's written
as 'ohc.'

Dave

    
    What's the meaning of "T Spark" being used on the latest
    generation of Alfa's ?
    

    
    Twin Spark. Each cylinder has 2 spark plugs.
    
    Mark

re .188;
 
  >Twin Spark. Each cylinder has 2 spark plugs.
 
Mark, is this because Italian electrics are still so flaky, you need two
sets to have a reasonable chance of starting the engine??

Peter		;^)

(who really knows it is to give a more complete burn, and so get more power,
but couldn't resist it!)

re .189;
 
> Mark, is this because Italian electrics are still so flaky, you need two
> sets to have a reasonable chance of starting the engine??

Alpha have used twin spark engines for over 20 years now !
I haven't a clue why they have only just starting to tell the world about
it though. ;^)

I'me my father's Guiletta has twin sparks and that was eons ago !

I agree about the electrics though ! Next it'll be Twin Wings or
Twin Sills or Twin Bottom of the Door. Ha ha !!!

Alex

don't some 911's use twin sparks too?


...art

    Yep, The Carrera 2 and 4 does. Though I don't think the new Turbo has.

    
    Would a bigger spark [ thru a sinlge plug ] do the same trick ?
    And the "firing" of two sparks plugs, are these sparked at the 
    same time or slightly staggered ?
    
    Firing one slightly after the other could use up the unignited
    petrol I guess ?
    

Re 731.193
    
>    Would a bigger spark [ thru a sinlge plug ] do the same trick ?
>    And the "firing" of two sparks plugs, are these sparked at the 
>    same time or slightly staggered ?
>    Firing one slightly after the other could use up the unignited
>    petrol I guess ?

It's far more complicated than that.
The trouble with car engines is that the flame does not travel 'at the speed of
light' etc. The theory behind 2 sparks each being quite apart from each other
is so that a much more even combustion is attained and also they are trying to
get the complete fuel charge burnt in the cylinder.

At University, I did Automotive Engineering (A long long time ago) and I did
a project on Wankel engines. One of the troubles with Wankel is fuel 
consumption ( the other being Rotor sealing - cured now with ceramics....
not even invented in my days). In the Wankel the firing cylinder is effectively
a very long thin triangle and the flame cannot travel fast enough down this
cylinder before the charge is exhausted. Another problem with this long thin
cylinder is 'end quench'. The expanding burning cases compress the unignited
mixture and a strange phenomena occurs in that the flame never would burn this
stuff even if it could reach it in time. I can't remember exactly the technical
details, but I have all my notes in my loft.

Consider this though !

A 4 stroke doing 6000 rpm means 1500 power cycles per min or 25 per second.
So a stroke of say 2 1/2 inches means that the average velocity of the
piston is 2 1/2 * 25 inches per second = 62.5 inches per second
= 225000 inches per hour = 3.55 miles per hour.
Not that fast eh ? But you have got to remember that this is an average,
no acceleration or decceleration taken into account. Damn it, I'me going
to have to get the books out of the loft.

Alex

    
    I am currently wearing a pair of 'Twin Spark' socks which i bought in 
    Florence last year when England progressed further than i had provided
    clothes for.
    
    
    Nigel

This morning on the A27 I was pulled in to a Census point, along with half
a dozen cars behind me.

I was asked where I was going, and where I had come from ! Nothing else !
Oh and they wanted the Post codes of both locations !

What was the point of that ? 
And causing a mile long tailback on the dual carriageway.

Is there no peace :^)

Alex

What are Scotchloks?

    
    Heh Elaine,
    
    fancy rewiring the Marcos? Including the scotchlocks I used to reattach 
    a few of wires to the bonnet? :^)
    
    Mark

    
>>
    fancy rewiring the Marcos? Including the scotchlocks I used to reattach 
    a few of wires to the bonnet? :^)
>>
    
    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!    (It was a bigger job than I expected, and took
    longer than I expected, probably because I kept thinking that I didn't
    know how to do the next bit, and so I went off and did something else 
    instead!)
    
    Elaine

    Ah, but think of all the experience you've got now! :^)
    
    Mark

I remember a friend of mine rewiring his Triumph T120 ... in black !!!
All black, and only black !!!

re .206

Silly boy...

    
    I've only used three colours - black, red and brown..... BUT, I've used
    numbers which you slide onto wires as the identification. When I sell
    the Landy, I'll just have to sell the manual for the wiring for a small 
    consideration!
    
    Elaine
    
    
    

    I thought it was the four colour map law (as it has now been proved)

         The VOGON News Service
 Edition : 2328            Wednesday 22-May-1991            Circulation :  8470

    West Midland's police are very satisfied with their testing of the
    American Lo/Jac vehicle tracking system which can help locate stolen
    cars.


...art

makes you a useful person to know then eh Jeff!   :-)

    Re: .212: Well, it was a truthful answer.  You didn't say *you* wanted
    to know too. :-)

I heard a version that said the company hid the box in your car and wouldn't
even tell you where (can't remove it and have the car stolen to collect
insurance). If the car is stolen the company who built the box works with
the police to find the car since they have the activating and locating
equipment.

    Seen and demonstrated (one that worked :-))on tomorrows world a week or
    so back. Yes the company hides it so even the owner doesn't know where
    it is. The insurance companies give a big discount to drivers who have
    it fitted.
    
    Richard

    
    Errr, somewhere in this Conference I was mentioning multi-valve
    behaviour on a new car. The salesman had told me that a "small"
    increase of revs between gear change was normal and that they'd
    adjust the valves <garbled sales talk etc.> on the 1st Service.
    
    Well, the 1st has been done and the over-revving has gone !
    
    But wait ! My car has hydraulic, self-adjusting, tappets/valves.
    What exactly did they adjust then ? 
    
    Any ideas, anyone ?
    

>> What did they adjust then

Probably the carburettor / injection system (as appropriate).

Scott

Maybe they adjusted the self adjusters.

Simon   ;-)

    If you drive a three wheeled car do you need a full driving license, or
    will a motorcycle license and proof of insanity do?  8^)
    
    Ian.

    
    I always believed that a three wheeled car (isn't that called a trike?)
    can be driven on a motorbike license.  Also, three wheeled cars can be
    driven by 16 year olds with a provisional motorbike license as long as
    the reverse gear is removed.  How the hell would you park/un-park the
    damn thing?
    
    I think you'll find that you need a proof of insanity when buying the
    thing!!!
    
    - Russell.

    I would suggest checking with the police about driving license
    requirements for a three wheeler... I seem to remember they changed the
    law a little while ago. Can't remember the exact details but it you
    could no longer ride it on a prov. bike license.
    
    James

As for requirements to drive:

My driving licence notes provide the following:

'motor car' : means a vehicle, except a motor cycle or agricultural tractor,
which is built or adapted to carry passengers or to carry or haul a load, but
which is not a large passenger vehicle or goods vehicle.

a motor tricycle (group C) has a weight limit of 450 kg unladen

and under 'Minimum ages for driving' they list

'At 17 years old - Motor Car, Motor bicycle, Motor tricycle other than a goods
vehicle...'

So it appears you need a group C licence, or a group A licence (which includes
group C).

/. Ian .\

    Mr J Carrot was making this very point last night on TV
    
    "...there more people died by being trapped in their garages that ever
    got kill on the road in these things... ;-) "
    
    Rob

       ... how do automatic car washes know where your wheels are? 

       Those big circular brushes always come forward and scrub the
       wheels at exactly the right place, whether you've got a stretched
       Mercedes or a FIAT 126.

       Ian.

    
    RE -1
    
       Optical sensors...
    
     if you look at the base of the moving bit (with the brushes on) of the
     carwash there is a little box (about 4 inches high and 2 inches wide)
    on each side. one side emits a light source (of laser orientation) and
    the other receives. when the receiving side fails to receive it is
    presumed that a wheel is present (should be the only part of the car
    that close to the ground). I found this out when the seatbelt got
    trapped outside the door (those brushes do scratch the paint)
    
       Al
    

    Thanks for  clearing that up.
    
    BTW, did the brushes then go on a scrub your rear wheels, or do you
    only get one chance? If I buy a six wheeler, will I always have to do 
    the back set myself?
    
    Ian (trying to keep this topic silly).

>>                     <<< Note 731.229 by ODDONE::BELL_A1 >>>
>>                           -< self cleaning eyes... >-
    
    >>one side emits a light source 
    True
    
    >>(of laser orientation) 
    and unlikely, Too expensive and in an exposed position. probably your
    common or garden Infra red.
    
    I found out by being nosey....
    
    Richard

    Of course, your _really_ cheap-and-cheerful car wash has this lttle
    rubber-tipped arm that scrapes along the side of the car and "feels"
    the gap where the wheels go...... mkaes lovely scrathces in paintwork,
    too !
    
    Ian

re: 6 wheelers

You could always do the front four wheels, then inch your car along
a bit and do the back four wheels. That way the middle wheels 
would turn out incredibly shiny.



Ian

    Ian,
    
    The best way to prove a hypothesis is to try it. So... tonite...
    
    Sellotape your spare to the edge of the back bumper on the 205! 
    and see what the carwash does! :-)
    
    Yours helpfully, Huw.

    I knew if I waited long enough I'd get some silly answers.

That won't work - Sellotape isn't waterproof.

     No problems.  The carwash won't clean the sellotape, it can't sense it 
     because it's see-through.
     
     

    Not that silly a question I know....
    
    Can anyone either tell me how a Serck oil cooler should be plumbed in
    on an 'A' Series, or give me the phone number of Serck themselves?
    Better still, fax me a copy of the fitting instructions?
    
    Mine doesn't seen to be actually doing anything. There's one hot pipe
    in, and one cool one out, but both pipes the other side of the valve
    are hot, and always are. It seems as if the valve isn't opening, but
    I've stripped it down, and it's a simple affair, stamped with a 74 on
    the "sender unit". I'm more likely to believe it wasn't fitted
    properly, and the people that fitted it have "lost" the instructions
    that came with it.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    RE: -1
    
    I really could do with that number.....
    
    Laurie.

    Re. Serck Oil Cooler fitting
    
    I can't help you on this, but is the problem related to the
    thermostatic valve, or the actual cooler installation ?
    
    J.R.

    RE: -1
    
    The valve. At least, I think it's the valve. There is a cool pipe from
    the cooler, and a hot one to it, but both pipes on the other side of
    the valve are too hot to touch. The Frog runs hotter than a normal 'A'
    Series anyway, and it needs the help of the oil-cooler to cool it
    down...
    
    I'm not sure if the valve is faulty, the 'plumbing' is wrong, or the
    filter flow of the oil is wrong. It goes up the outer holes and down
    the inner one (it's a Fiesta one, screw-thread facing down). At least,
    I hope it flows that way, the filter has non-return valves on the outer
    holes to stop the oil draining out. I'd like to know how this relates
    to the position of hoses into and out of the valve, and the
    'hose-mount-thingy' that goes between the filter and the block... It's
    this that controls the direction of flow in and out of the engine/filter,
    valve and therefore cooler, and for all I know, it could have been
    fitted upside down.
    
    Laurie.

Ever heard on the radio travel news something like...

"...and the A40 Westway is closed Eastbound due to an incident"

?

Does anyone know what "an incident" is??



Ian

    Yes Ian, an incident is when one car hits another very gently & leaves
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    an incy dent!!:-))

where they don't want to give details for security or other reasons.

It may be a bomb scare, house siege, major fire, or just an accident.

Peter.

    British Rail invariably use the term "incident" to refer to one of the
    300+ suicides they have to cope with each year.
    
    JK

Well you see that's what I thought. An incident just means 
"something happened", so why not just say "the A40 Westway 
is closed Eastbound"


ian

	If you have a nice set of Minilite Magnesium Alloys, and the
	car catches fire, *do* the wheels burn really nicely ?

	Alex

    Probably not as they aren't all magnesium, a fair proportion of the
    alloy is aluminium. Magnesium gets a very tough oxide coating from
    exposure to air (as does Aluminium) and this will help to protect them.
    People remember what happens when Mg pwder is thrown into a flame, but
    in that form it'a all surface area and there's lots of thermal energy:
    I don't think that there's much of a problem with the wheels catching
    fire. By the time that happens most of the rest of the car is gone or
    you are dead.

    Why do some Ford badges have a red background instead of the more
    normal blue ?

 Red Ford badges - Some people think that it looks better, there are also people
with black ones, and my friend has a lime light green one. 
 

 I think they reckon that it gives a bit of idividuality, although there are so
many red ones around that that is not longer so, but the lime-light green one,
now that must be a first !!!!



		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    
    They're supposedly AVO (Advanced Vehicle Operations), but I read
    somewhere that they were never officially sold in this form...
    
    Mark

    
    
    As far as i know the people change the background colour themselves
    and has nothing to do with Ford at all.I read in a mag sometime ago
    about this.
    
                                                    Tom.

    
    RE -1
    
    	True, Ford do not have anything to do with this. It can be done 
    	yourself or there are many Car Graphics Companies which will do
    	it - for a price.
    	Lime green is definatley not a first - plenty of them around
    
    		Tony

 Lime green is nothing compared to Lime-light green, this guy has a Sunbeam Imp
Sport in the colour, and you can see it for miles, even before it comes over
the horizon.


		 Alan
		~~~~~~

Does anyone have any ideas what the following stand for?

GTi
SLi
SRi
GLS
SX

etc...

Do the letters actually stand for anything in particular? (yes I know what
the "i" is)


Ian

	I thought GT stood for Grand Tour.

	Graham

    
    GTi - Grand Tourer injection.
    
    SLi - Super Luxury injection (I'd guess. It was on old Hunters!)
    SRi - Sport Rallye injection (From the German for Boy Racer! :^))
    GLS - Grand Luxury Sport (Was on my Cavalier. Must be German for
    	  boy racer who likes comfy seats!)
    SX  - Specious eXtras (to get you to buy a poorly selling model!)
    
    Mark 
    
    PS I suspect the codes mean whatever the manufacturer wants then to.
    There isn't anyway of guaranteeing anything across a number of
    manufacturers who all use the same code.

GT stands for "Gran Turismo" (spelling) - its an Italian phrase (Ferrari?)

In the old days the Ford sequence was

" " = standard

"L" = Luxury (= a few extras)

"GL" = "Grand Luxury" (= a few more extras)

'S' (could be combined with others) meant 'sport' = slightly faster and noisier

'R' (as in 'RS' [and 'SR' with other makes]) = 'Rally[e]' = harder springs

'X' = 'eXtra'

/. Ian .\

    I'll go along with those , seem sensible enough. What does DGT mean
    then , any offers. Old chap has just bought a Fiat Tipo DGT , it's
    definatly not diesel , unless you can buy unleaded diesel. 
    
    
    	Ah hang on, DELUXE GRAND TOURER, that must be it.
    
    	8-)
    
    
    

    
    Re .261
    
    Didn't Ford also use X to indicate the addition of a X-pack suspension
    kit to a model for a while?
    
    Mark

Yes Mark, but it still stood for 'eXtra'... 

    
    Ah, so that's what eXtra means! :^)
    
    Mark (Still none the wizer!)

Fialt use DGT to denote models with the digital dashboard.

Dunno why they don't call them digital....

Peter.

    
    A bit like the Renault N TXE (Tres eXciting Electronique?) :^)
    
    Mark

So what's the E in GTE?


Ian

    
    E = Electronic as in EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection)?
    
    Mark

    
    	My bike don't have any of these, its got electronic fuel injection,
    
    	I want some letters, NFI.
    
    
    	You can work that out for yourselves.
    
    
    	BTW the N has nothing to do with networks.
    
    
    

    
    
    Didn't the "L" stand for "luxe"     
    and the "GL" for "Grand luxe"

    

Isn't E the first letter for the German for Injection ?

So what about RN and RT (Renault Normal, and RenaulT ??)

    "E" = Einspritz.  What does the GS in GSi stand for ?
    
    
    John

    
    
    
    GS = Grand Sport ?
    

    One more - SE = Special Equipment
    
    Re the E in GTE...  I always thought this stood for executive as seen
    on the Mantas (GT/Executive)...  
    
    ..Craig

Over here in the states Ford had a version of the Granada (nothing in common
with your Granada) they called the ESS.  It stood for European Sports Sedan.
The blacked out all the chrome, put on slightly wider tires and maybe added
some guages.

The general comment at the time was that it should have been called the
American Sports Sedan.....:-)

Dave

...so what does "Gran Turismo" actually mean?

I suspect it means a sporty car suitable for comfy long-distance cruising, yes?

Scott

Several years ago one of the Sunday newspaper magazines compiled a list of 
these groups of letters.  They asked the manufacturers what they meant.  In 
at least two of the cases they had the manufacurer said "it means nothing".

jb

    
        
    Didn't the 'E' on one of the Mantas stand for "exclusive"?
    

    
    The Exclusive was a special edition of the Manta GT/E...
    
    Mark

    
    The Exclusive also came with the 4 headlight set up as standard, which
    was a worthwhile improvement by all accounts (certainly the rectangular
    Manta lights were a dead loss!).
    
    The GT/J didn't have fuel injection so Jetronic sounds unlikely. 
    I was once told it was J because the Ascona (on which it was based) was
    GM's J-Class car, which basically defined the Cortina sized car class.
    Don't know if it's true, but it makes sense.
    
    Mark

    
    
    I thought the Manta was badged GT/Exclusive?
    
    Richard.

or thereabouts.

When they dropped the 1700 cc 'O' series engine into the Marina, and facelifted
them, they introduced three trim levels; badged as HL, L, and nothing..

HL stood for High Luxury,, L for Luxury, and then there was the base car.

After a year or so, they re-entered the game when the HL was rebadged as HLS,
and L became HL, and the base became an L.

Peter.

>HL stood for High Luxury

I thought it was "Highline"

Between the 'War to End All Wars' and WWII, it was fashionable to make/take
a 'grand tour' of the continent (at least for the rich). Grand Touring most
likely was a description applied to motor cars used for these trips.

    
    re .284,285
    
    HL did stand for Highline... it was also used on the Maxi
    and Princess/Ambassador ranges.
    
    Richard.

bit like radios, I suppose!!

Now you've said it, I remember you are correct. But if HL was for High Line,
what was L for? Line?

Oh well, just proves the idiocy of it all.

Peter.

    
    When the Marina/Maxi range started having the "HL" suffix I don't
    believe there was an "L" at all. 
    
    The Maxi range was I think "1500", "1750" and "1750 HL" and the
    Marina (started life as 1.3/1.8 super/special) became "1300/super",
    "1800/super" and "HL" 
    
    I agree there was later an "L" introduced in the Marina/Ital and 
    Princess/Ambassador ranges when they went to "L","HL" and "HLS"
    at the time the "O" series engines were introduced, which is what I
    think you said, Peter?
    
    The Princess was originaly sold in 1800 (4) and 2200 (6), then when
    they went to the new O series engines the "L" was offered on the
    1700, 2000 (both O series) but not on the 2200 (from the Austin/
    Morris 2200)
    
    And now a question...
    
    In later life it was sold simply as a "Princess" (nothing could
    have been further from the truth....) before becoming the 
    Ambassador, but I have a feeling that the original Princesses
    were sold as "Austin Princess 1800" with the 1800 "B" engine
    and "Wolsey Princess 2200 HL"?  Is this correct?
    

    

The term Grand Touring seems to be a bit misleading.
I'd expect to take a grand tour in a Merc, or BMW and
a visit to Sainsbury's in a 205, Metro or Renault 5.

Ian

    
    The term GT was first used to describe hard top Sportscars. Basically
    if it had a roof it couldn't be a sportscar, so it was given the term
    GT (to imply that it would make a Grand car to Tour around in?).
    
    I agree with .290 that a big comfortable saloon would seem to be a 
    better tourer than a Citroen AX GT (fun though one may be), but the
    term was originally aimed at cars like the early four seater
    Lamborghinis, the Ferrari 365 GTB (Daytona) and the hardtop E-Types,
    which, if in as new condition, sound a lot more enjoyable than a 
    big, fat saloon.
    
    As was said, the Grand Tour was something indulged in by wealthy
    types in the 20s and early 30s, but the term was, presumably, not
    applied to cars until much later.
    
    Nowadays the GT tag is merely a convenient way for the insurance
    companies to charge EVEN MORE for car insurance. :^(
    
    Mark
    
    PS Can anyone think of a pre-war GT titled car?

    
    
    	Doesn't George Turnbull come into this at some stage ?

    What about CD. Does it *really* stand for Corps Diplomatique? If so,
    why ?
    
    Clive

    
    My father has owned two Cavalier CDs, but almost didn't get the first
    as he didn't want a diesel! :^)
    
    Mark

RE CD because its French


Simon

>    My father has owned two Cavalier CDs, but almost didn't get the first
>    as he didn't want a diesel! :^)

I made the same mistake. <sigh>

Stupid of TPEC

re .289;

Nope, when the O series went into the facelifted Marina (it was in '79),
there was definately base, L and HL. I know; 'cos I bought a 1700 HL.
(it had the fastest 30-50-70 acceleration of any of the equivalent
cortina/cavalier/fiat 131/etc. saloons.)

About a year or so later, the letters were upped to L, HL and HLS.

Re the Princess/Ambassodor - when the old 'Land Crab" 1800's were replaced 
with the "wedge" shape body, they were called the 18 / 22 series;
after about six months or so they were re-launched as the Princess,
as you say with 1800 (4) and 2200 (in line 6). I had a Princess 2200 auto
for a year or so; it certainly didn't have the Wolsely badge - I'm faily
sure it didn;t have Austin either; probably the L in a circle in front
of "Princess" on one side of the boot, and "2200 HLS" on the other.

I don't think they used any brand names on the 18/22 or Pincess at all;
this was when BL was going madwith it's corporate image, and wiping out
all the individual names.

(as an aside, it was a very good car; fast, very comfortable, and not
too un-econimcal). When the tin worm got it, I replaced it with an
Ambassador 1700 HL - which I also found to be a good car, except for the
auto choke.

When they introduced the O series 1700 and 2000, didn't they drop the
2200/6 entirely? I know the 2200 was never in the Ambassador.

Peter.

    What about Honda's CRX ???
    
    Chromed Rear eXtras ???
    
    or what???
    
    - Jyri -

More actual car names, not just trim levels, from Japan:

MX5 - Mildly eXclusive?

MR2 - Merely Routine?

Jon

    
    Does anyone know if the number of wins Goodyear reached was 200 or 250?
    
    Mark

    
    
    		250 , sometime ago autosport distributed a poster with 200 
    	winners on. I have a feeling it was around 87 but I can't be sure.
    
    	Garry

    
    Ta for the last couple of replies. A signed limited edition (of 750)
    copy of the 200 wins poster has just come into my hands (actually my garage
    now!).
    
    Now for a TOTALLY unrelated to motoring question.
    
    Does anyone out there have a recent Amateur Photographer magazine to
    hand? I've put a note in the AFVAX::PHOTO conference, but that looks
    heavily US based, so I'm not hopefull of a response.
    
    What I'm really after is a telephone number of any shop selling (via
    mail order) the Russian cameras (specifically a Zenith Lomo compact).
    
    Mail me with any addresses, if you have got the mag.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mark

    Mark,
	 As Jane will probably say in a minute.

	 Haven't you got a Smiths in Reading !

	Alex :^)

    
    Well as I'm in Newbury, Reading may be a way to go.
    
    There is a Smiths in Newbury, but I'll have to wait until tomorrow
    to look in there and can you imagine the time it'll take to read AP
    cover to cover and note down some numbers?!?!?!
    
    Mark

 
   Can anyone point me to the note(s) in this conference regarding what
   cars will run with unleaded petrol.  I have a Peugeot 309 at the moment.

   I  run through keywords but was unable to find the topic.

   Regards,

   Tony.

When car parks say they are full, are they really full? Do they
really have not one single space available in the whole car park?
Or do they allow a ceratin percentage of spaces for bad drivers and
drivers of Renault 5 GTT who take up two?


Ian

As the R5GTt approaches the speed of light, its length decreases to zero, so
you can park an infinite number in one space. This also accounts for the fact
that when you see one in your rear-view mirrow, it is actually in front!

As for the "silly" question, our local car park allows cars in until it has
reached capacity (one car per space), and them shows FULL until 6 cars have
exited before allowing more in.

mb

    For a tiddly little R5 GTT to take up two spaces must very difficult
    'cos they are so small.  I think that people must fall into the
    following catergories to park badly :
    
    a) Incredibly stupid brigade. 
    
    b) Don't give a toss brigade.
    
    c) Totally oblivious to any poor car control brigade.
    
    d) I can't be bothered to repark even if I notice brigade.
    
    e) Do it to deliberately annoy brigade.
    
    All of the above are equally reprehensible.
    
    I once saw three cars at Heatherwood hospital car park which were each
    across two spaces. I let one tyre down on each car. Hahahahahahahaha.
    
    
    Jerome the B*st*rd.

    It was a joke actually, but I did feel like letting them down at first.
    When I eventually found a space miles away I felt like setting the
    drivers on fire. grrrr
    
    > How nice for the old lady who was collecting her husband to find
      she had a flat tyre....
    
    What about the next old lady that comes along and has to park miles
    away because of the first's inability to park properly. Parking is an
    important part of driving, something you have to do at the end of every
    journey. If you can't park, either learn to or stop driving, before I set
    you on fire :-)
    
    
    Jerome.                        

I see you don't read all the notes in this conference. My reference
to R5GTTs was a reference to another note, don't ask me which.
Anyway, I don't think I'll be so subtle in future.



Ian

    I thought that car parks were always filled to 110% capacity. It always
    seems that way when you are driving around looking for some of the
    apparent spaces...

When I pop into my car of a morning, whistling a happy tune, I know I'm
making good progress if I can get to M1J5 before the peak-time traffic signals
come on. I reckon they come on about 7am.

So what happens then? You're driving along, and suddenly a bland, inofensive
traffic light springs into action. Does it start at red, orange or green? Or
perhaps some interesting combination of all three. And what are the OTHER
lights doing?

Do you get my drift? Before the lights are on, everyone is ready to give way 
in case someone else is coming. If they start up as Red, then that would
be a bit scary first thing in the morning. If they start up as amber or green,
then that's the same as saying drive through without looking.

And, HAS ANYONE EVER ACTUALLY SEEN PEAK TIME SIGNALS COME ON? Perhaps they 
have a special 'wait until no one's looking circuit'.

Dougie

I saw them come on at J8/9 of the M4 when they used to come on at 
8:00 am. I think they all went red, then one set changed pretty quickly
to green. Now they've changed them to come on at 7ish so I don't
see them.


Ian

	When does a hole in the exhaust become illegal ? Well it's a
	little more than a hole now !

	My Sierra's exhaust has broken 3 ft from the tail end, severing
	the *last* silencer box. Now it's not noisy, well certainly no more
	noisy than 90% of all Alfas or most sports cars. Does this count
	as being unfit/illegal ?


	Alex

    
    I THINK any hole (except the one at the end! :^)) is an MOT failure.
    
    Mark

>    I THINK any hole (except the one at the end! :^)) is an MOT failure.

	But am I still allowed to drive it ?

	Alex

	BTW the car passed its MOT on the Monday and the exhaust broke Friday,
	pretty close really !

    re : 731.311
    
    Actually Ian, assuming you are referring to me, I do read most of the
    notes in this conference, and knew which one you were referring to. I
    was just in a 'have a dig at bad parking' mood. Maybe *I* should chose
    when to have a dig in future and you continue to be subtle :-)
    
    
    Jerome. 

re .-1 

Yup! That's fine by me!


ian

can anyone tell me what 'twenty' is in Italian? (better still what 'room twenty'
is in Italian)

thanks,

...Art

Is there a new species of spider, the electrically adjusted car mirror spider?

The spiders that I have observed living in my mirrors over the past 5 years
all look alike. If you get rid of one another soon appears. Is this evolution
in action?

Wonderingly,
Dave.

>Is there a new species of spider, the electrically adjusted car mirror spider?

Could it be a close relative of the internally adjusted (non-electrical) 
mirror spider ?

Same behavious characteristics...

 Hi Art,

 The words you are looking for are "Camera venti"

 Good luck,

 Mark.

    Re: Motorfair program yesterday...
    
    So just how many people can you cram into a Renault Espace ??
    
    Rich
    

    Here's one to ponder over,
    
    Can you be done for speeding on a pushbike ?
    
    Note that I have any intentions of putting it to the test (even if I
    were able to ;^)
    
    
    Shaun.

	Another one.

	Why have Milk floats got 'Q' plates ? I thought they were for kit
	cars and the like, mind you, the bloke at the corner shop has a 'Q'
	plate on his left hand Merc. So then, what are 'Q' plates for ?

	Alex

    
    Re .325
    
    Don't know, but it is quite easy to exceed the speed limit on a bike!
    :^)
    
    Re .326
    
    Q plates are used on any vehicle of indeterminate age. In the case of 
    the milk floats they may have been rebuilt around old ones (perhaps?)
    and in the case of the LHD Merc, presumably, it was imported without
    supporting documentation proving its year of manufacture and hence
    couldn't be given an original year letter.
    
    Mark 

    re -1.
    
    Milk floats I don't know about, but for the Merc, there could be a few
    options :-
    
    1)	The cars has been written off and rebuilt from several cars, so the
    	age of the car cannot be determined.
    
    2)	The year of manufacture cannot be verified on the documents when
    	imported ( I don't know if this is possible ).
    
    3)	It is a Cortina with a body kit.
    
    
    Shaun.

    Yes you can be done for speeding on a bike (or drunk driving for that
    matter).
    
    	Rik
    
    

As I understand it Q plates are allocated when the age of the car is uncertain.

e.g. 
The car is imported, and there is insufficient evidence as to its original
date of registration.
The car is old, and the original green log book has been lost. However an age 
related registration can be issued if the car is dated by an approved 
organisation.
The car is built from a mixture of parts of different ages i.e. a kit


Mark.

Re. Q Plates

	Date of manufacture (and hence age of vehicle) doesn't have anything to
    do with it. Isn't it inability to prove date of first registration for use
    on a public highway.

>>    Yes you can be done for speeding on a bike (or drunk driving for that
>>    matter).
    
    
    I knew you could be done for being drunk in charge, but I find it
    difficult to see how you could be done for speeding, as you are
    normally unable to tell the speed at which you were travelling (as I
    did'nt think speedo's were compulsory on bikes yet !).
    
    
    Shaun.

    Re speeding/drunk in charge of a pushbike
    
    I can imagine that there are some laws for which you could be
    prosecuted, but cannot see how they will be the same ones that
    will result in endorsements on your driving license.
    
    Anyone know the actual answer to this [silly] question ?
    
    J.R.

re. speeding on a bike

this weekend on the A329(M) I saw a girl (on a bike) that had been pulled
over by the police - perhaps she was speeding :-)


...art

I remember reading in one of the Express a year or so ago a man on a 
bike was pulled overer for speeding.  He was coming down a hill and 
was done for doing over 30MPH in a 30MPH zone :-)

Grant

>this weekend on the A329(M) I saw a girl (on a bike) that had been pulled
>over by the police - perhaps she was speeding :-)

Silly...bikes aren't allowed on motorways...because they *can't* speed ;-)

>> Silly...bikes aren't allowed on motorways...because they *can't* speed ;-)
    
    I think that was the joke actualy Jane.
    
    Shaun.

According to a British Cycling Federation handbook (admittedly about 10
years old, but I don't think it's changed), speed limits only apply to 
motorised vehicles, and so do not apply to pushbikes. The handbook does 
however go on to warn that cyclists exceeding the speed limit could well 
be 'done' for reckless riding, which is an offence.

An interesting point - if a cyclist was caught for being drunk in charge
of a pushbike, could he/she loose their driving licence ??

Pete

Yes indeed, I beleiev any traffic offense can bring penalty points. This can
be even if you were riding a bike, horse whatever. I remember being told
tht  when I fitted a speedo. to my bike it had to be correct and I became
legally bound to keep to the speed limits.

Simon

Re: .341

I don't believe that you can be drunk in charge of a horse...the horse is 
usually quite capable of getting itself home without any help from a person...

Re: .339

Shaun, don't you take *any* notice of smileys ?

>> Yes indeed, I beleiev any traffic offense can bring penalty points. This can
    
    I still don't think you would get points.  If you did'nt have a license
    at all, how would the points be awarded ? What would happen if you
    gained 12+ points.  I could hardly imagine a 15 year old being banned
    for driving for 3 months because he has over 12 points on a license he
    won't be able to have for 2 years !!!
    
    Shaun.

There was a case in Oxford a number of years ago that hit the news. A young 
(15/16 year old) lad got rather drunk, cycled through the center on Oxford 
and hit several cars causing quite a lot of damage. Apparently he got a 6
month ban to commence from the first day of his license if he ever got one.

Simon

Re: .345

>    I still don't think you would get points.  If you did'nt have a license
>    at all, how would the points be awarded ? What would happen if you
>    gained 12+ points.  I could hardly imagine a 15 year old being banned
>    for driving for 3 months because he has over 12 points on a license he
>    won't be able to have for 2 years !!!
    
You don't need to be able to imagine, it can and does happen that people too
young to have a driving licence get banned from driving.  Exactly when the
ban takes effect I do not know.

jb

    
    I believe it's from the date you apply for a licence (rather than your
    17th birthday).
    
    Mark

>> You don't need to be able to imagine, it can and does happen that people too
>> young to have a driving licence get banned from driving.  Exactly when the
>> ban takes effect I do not know.
    
    
    And in the meantime, you carry on cycling, even though it was on the
    same mode of transport on which you gained a ban from driving a car ?
    
    I do know a few older people who ride a bike, who will almost certainly
    never learn to drive.  Does this mean they are punished less than those
    who do learn.
    
    Where as I would not dispute you could get a ban (as I really don't
    know), I would dispute the effectiveness of it on a cycling offence.
    
    
    Shaun

Surely you can only be banned from driving for committing a driving
offence !  In my books cycling isn't driving. Taking this to an extreme,
do we conclude that any offence committed on a public highway could result
in points on your driving license and/or a driving ban ?  What about walking
along the pavement under the influence of alcohol ?

Pete

        
    You can certainly be banned from driving if you commit a motoring
    offence and don't have a licence. This is what has been happening
    to those so called 'joyriders'.  As was said in another note, the 
    ban takes effect from the time the licence is applied for.

    Richard.    

>>                     -< Definitely for motoring offences >-
    
    I can understand being banned from driving for a motoring offence, even
    when you have'nt got a license, but then again, cycling is *NOT*
    motoring. A driving license is not required to cycle, whereas people
    who drive cars on the roads, without a license are in breach of the
    law, even if they don't commit a motoring offence.  A ban in those
    circumstances is understandable, as it is trying to ensure the offence
    is not commited again.  Whereas a ban for speeding on a bike will have
    no detrimental effect to the persons cycling habbits.
    
    Still no wiser.
    
    
    Shaun.

    
    Saw a strange number plate on the back of an old style BMW whislt
    driving in to work this a.m.
    
    Normal style of lettering and colouring i.e. balck numbers on a yellow
    backgruond but the actual plate consisted of three numbers followed by
    three letters followed by two numbers i.e.
    
    	123 ABC 75
    
    Where does this type of plate spring from ??
    
    Rich
    

    
    Looks like a french arrangement. When I worked in France 
    the reg # on my car was 420 GLA 75. The last two #s indicate
    what area you live in. 75 is Paris, 91 is Evry Corcoronnes
    et cetera.
    
    JN.

    Looks French to me too. I've noticed recently, that quite a few French
    cars have "British" style plates, ie. black on yellow, as opposed to
    the more normal white on black.
    
    Laurie.

	
	Is it legal to turn right at a right filter when the green arrow is not
	lit, but the way is clear?
	Or are you legally obliged to wait for the light if there is one?

    Surly that depends on the light, I could be wrong but I can think of
    more that 1 type of filter. I can think of a set of lights that have a
    filter arrow, but in point of fact the right filter only comes on when
    the on coming traffic has a red light. I don't see a problem with
    turning right if there is no traffic. However if the filter light is
    accompanied with a red and amber light then its a different ball game.
    
    Does anyone know for sure ???
    
    Garry 

    I think you can turn when the filter is off, but the main lights show
    green (and the main lights are not a straight ahead arrow !). Of
    course, you are not protected by a red in the other directions so you
    have to give way to oncoming traffic.
    
    The left turn lane by the Penta garage used to have filter lights.
    These lights NEVER came on (might still be like that).
    One day someone refused to move when the main lights turned green !
    (That was the day I discovered my horn was broken).
    
    Andrew

.630 is correct.

A plain green light means that you may proceed in any direction if it is 
clear.  A green arrow means that you may proceed in the direction the arrow 
points regardless of what the other lights are showing.  It is normal 
(maybe even required) that the green arrow is extinguished when the plain 
green light is illuminated.

jb

    re .361
    
 It is normal (maybe even required) that the green arrow is extinguished when
    the plain green light is illuminated.                             
    
    I don't think the above is correct. The green arrow sometimes means
    that you have priority. eg turning right at traffic light. A green
    arrow indicates you can go and the oncoming traffic sees a red. When
    the arrow goes outyou can still turn but oncoming traffic may do just
    that. Where you have a left filter green arrow then this seems only to
    mean that you can go but I'm unsure as to whether all other traffic
    which could affect you is seeing red (!). I find green arrows tacked
    onto other lights a most uninspiring traffic signal.
    
    Andrew

    I HATE lights which have filters, but don't tell you. This seems to
    happen a lot in London. I have dribbled about this elsewhere in this
    conference I believe. You're sitting there, waiting to turn right. And
    you DON'T KNOW if the traffic facing you is going to move, or going to
    stop, or kick your lights out. Life is a like an unflushed toilet
    sometimes.
    
    Dougie
    

    re .363
    
    It's even worse in Massachusetts. There are a number of junctions where
    you get a green arrow to turn in front of oncoming traffic. Then, maybe
    10 seconds later, the oncoming traffic gets a green while you still
    have your green. Several cars can go through the green safely and then,
    without warning, the next one will find the oncoming traffic racing
    towards it. There is no indication that this can happen at any
    particular set of lights, so if you have not been through them before
    you have no idea what wil happen.
    
    Andrew

    
    Do all/some of the pay booths on the French autoroutes allow you to pay
    by credit card or is it wads of hard cash mode ??
    
    I've only ever driven on the N roads before but this time simply need
    to get where I'm going.
    
    Rich
    

    I always pay by Visa (Carte Bleu equivalent).
    
    Some of them have automatic machines for Visa payments, but I can't
    remember how you identify them. A white light symbol I think. And they
    give receipts.
    
    The people (green arrrow booths) take the cards happily and will also
    provide receipts.
    
    JK

    
    Thought this would be the best place to put the following 
    question/problem.
    
    CAR : 1983 Alfa Romeo Guilietta 2 litre.
    
    Problem.....
    
    When there is no key in the ignition the horn works no problems.
    
    If the key is in the ignition with the ignition on or the engine
    running as well then the horn does not work.
    
    Why should this happen ?? Any ideas ??
    
    JN.

    
    re: .367
    
    > CAR : 1983 Alfa Romeo Guilietta 2 litre.
    
    > Why should this happen ?? Any ideas ??
    
    Because it is an Alfa - Alfa electrics are ALWAYS wierd and
    unfathomable!
    
    I have had 6 Alfas over the years and all had some electical
    strangeness - the last was an '83 Guilietta 1.8. I had it into 3
    different garages but NOBODY could get the speedo to work reliably!
    
    Sorry that doesn't help with your problem though :-(
    
    Mike H.
    

    
    Re -1.
    
    Thanx alot. I do know what you are talking about but everything
    works on the Alfa with the exception of the horn (ignition on and
    engine runnning) and the heated rear screen. Oh the front fog lights
    don't work coz there isn't any there. They were removed some time
    ago due to damage and I'm waiting for some more to pop up.
    
    Even the little engine bay lights work and the one in the boot.
    
    The thing is, I'm taking it for an MOT on Saturday and the horn needs
    to work with the ignition on et cetera.
    
    JN.

It sounds to me (knowing nothing about Alphas) that the horn is wired into the
ignition in reverse...

    
    Thats what I thought but the horn is supposed to be a constant live
    ehich on my car works ok. It stops working when the ignition is 
    switched on.
    
    JN.

    
    	It's clearly symptomatic of a manhood deficiency most probably
    directly related to your being a Chelsea supporter.  Try having a cold
    shower everytime you think of Vinnie Jones and with the end of the
    season on us your horn should start working correctly.
    
    	Good luck Jeff,  you need it

    
    Thanks Cliff. I can always rely on your sound advice to 
    help me through these problems even though they are not 
    my fault.
    
    Once again Doctor Didcock, thanks.
    
    JN.

Someone mentioned earlier, I think, that the horn completes a circuit which
provides power to the horn. In my car the horn push completes the earth of the
circuit which then allows power to flow to the horn relay and eventually the horn

Dont know the implications for your car and the problem you're encountering but
I just thought I'd mention it 

Bazza

    re .368
    
    I would look at the electrical drawing for your car. you should be able
    to work out what is happening or not happening using the map and a volt
    /ohm meter. If have'nt got one borrow one. Where do you live, near
    Basingstoke/Reading/Newbury? If so I got one you can borrow.
    
    I would think a relay or three is involved and some of the contacts are 
    not contacting :-)
    
    Dave

    
    re: .375
    
    > I would look at the electrical drawing for your car. you should be able
    > to work out what is happening or not happening using the map and a volt
    > /ohm meter. If have'nt got one borrow one.
    
    I preseume you're offering to lend him a meter, not a wiring diagram.
    
    I spent > 2 years trying to obtain one (the diagram) for that model.
    Nobody seemed to have one. I was told that there MIGHT be one in the 
    electrical volume of the workshop manual (price about 30 quid).
    
    I think I would check all the relays - just the horn relay if you can 
    isolate it - in the big plastic box infront of the driver (under the
    bonnet). The seem to be mostly the same and just plug in, so you might 
    try swapping another with the horn relay to see if it works.
    
    You might try phoning Alfa UK in Dover, they were usually quite
    friendly (even promised to send me a wiring diagram once - but it never
    arrived :-( ).
    
    Mike H.
    

    Time for another silly question.
    
    	When does your fan kick in?  I'm asking because on my 944 ('85)
    the fan kicks in at 3/4's up the temp gauge. Whilst it does the job
    and takes  the temperature  back down to 1/2, it does seem a little
    high.
    
    	I'm wondering  if this  is normal, and in the height of summer, 
    will this be sufficient? if  not, is this easy to change to say get
    it to kick in at 1/2 temp? 

>    	When does your fan kick in?  

When the temp guage hits the bottom of the red, usually only possible when
stationary in over-warm weather.

>>    the fan kicks in at 3/4's up the temp gauge. Whilst it does the job
>>    and takes  the temperature  back down to 1/2, it does seem a little
    
    This is basically the position that is recommended when setting
    up a Kenlowe fan (if fitted yourself), so sounds about right.
    
    J.R.

My car is having a few problems with its clutch, the symptons are as follows

1) changing gear is becoming physically hard, I guess because the clutch 
is not disengaging.  This only happens in the lower gears and mainly when
changing down.


2) Even with my foort down on the clutch, in 1st gear the car still tries
to creep forward, I think my car thinks its an auto.


The clutch is old and it is not slipping so I guess that for some reason the
clutch is not disengaging, I've though about treing to adjust the clutch, however
I have the felling that is really new cluch time, any comments form the panel?
Oh the car is am Opel Manta.


Mike

	That sounds like a classic end-of-clutch story.  You're getting
	clutch spin - a failure of the clutch to disengage.  Changing 
	gear, particularly 1st and reverse is very hard with the engine
	running.  However, turn the engine off and its easy...

	Dave

    
    This sounds very familiar to me too.  My Nova's clutch has been doing
    this for the last 2 years now. I've just been too lasy to adjust the
    thing!
    
    Thing is you can get around the stiff changing doen with a just a touch
    of toe and heeling, so I don't find it much of a problem.
    
    If it the classic-end-of-clutch story, then this story has a very long
    ending!!! 8^)
    
    Steve
    
    PS. No clutch slip at all, but some clutch drag!

    Could be that the spigot bearing is knackered.  If the clutch is not
    slipping this would indicate that it still has life left in it.  A clue
    as to what is wrong would be where the clutch starts to engage with
    relation to pedal travel.
    
    If the clutch starts to engage when your foot is hardly off the floor
    then I would suggest adjustment to be the problem.
    
    Is it possible on either of these cars to get a peep at the friction
    plate with almost everything still assembled? maybe taking the starter
    motor out would let you get a look, you will soon see if it looks too
    thin, the workshop manual will give you a minimum measurement for the
    plate.
    
    Cheers Ian...

	I just replaced the clutch in the Marlin, that's how I know the
	symptoms.  If you adjust the clutch and you have to have your
	foot on the floor to disengage, then you're in trouble.  I guess
	that it could be a dodgy pedal, I've heard of Golf GTi bulkheads
	cracking and causing flex in the pedal box.  By the way, the 
	Marlin's clutch lasted about a year after first getting the 
	symptoms.  By the end, I could hardly get first.  When I 
	took out the old clutch, the release bearing had had it and most
	of the forks of the old spring had worn off.  I never had problems
	with gears above 1st.

	Dave

    RE Manta Clutch
    
    If you have the earlier type of clutch cable, you can adjust the
    take-up point (if that's the problem - not completely disengaging)
    from under the bonnet.
    
    Where the cable comes through the bulkhead, there is a 'C-clip'
    which fits into/onto a slotted section of the cable sheath.
    Pull the cable outer, remove the C-clip, replace the C-clip
    onto a slot nearer the bulkhead.
    
    On the later type of cable, adjustment is achieved in the more
    common fashion by a threaded section at the 'bottom' end, down
    by the clutch actuating arm.  You have to get mucky to move this !
    
    In both the above cases, changing the adjuster will mean that the
    clutch *should* disengage sooner.  If you move it too far, you will
    get a clutch that doesn't fully engage - giving you clutch slip.
    
    You should be able to determine if this change to adjustment is needed
    by the feel of when the clutch starts to 'bite' - but if it is so bad
    that it *always* bites, it sounds as though the pressure plate has
    failed - there are small springy 'fingers' in the centre of the plate,
    which can wear or fracture (although not common).  This would lead
    to the symptoms where the clutch drags or fails to disengage at all,
    but would not cause clutch slip.  That occurs if either the friction
    lining(s) wear out - normal end-of-life for a clutch, or if the spring
    plate fails, which I think is quite rare.
    
    What engine/gearbox is fitted to your Manta ?
    An old 4-speed box, or a 5-speed ?  A 1.8 engine, or any other size ?
    
    J.R.

Thanks for the info,

here is the info on the car 
its a 5 speed box, 1.8 engine 1983 (a reg)

Mike

Replace it myself !!!!!!

Well its a posibility, first I will find out how much it will cost me to get
someone else to do it for me (I'm lazy you see).  When I find out its going to
cost  000's of quid just in labour I'll do it myself, like the cylinder head 
gaskit.....

But I have read the book (Hayens manual) and it says something about having to 
undo the engine mounting bolts and tilt the engine.......


Mike

	You should worry, to replace the clutch in the Marlin was an engine out
	job.  To get the engine out you have to remove the bonnet and the nose
	cone.  It took two days in all, one to get it out, and one to get it 
	back in.  The clutch took 30 minutes to change, oh and while you're at
	it, change the whole clutch assembly, including the release bearing.

	You could pay someone else (I wouldn't trust anyone with the Marlin), 
	they charge around 32 pounds an hour, my clutch (complete assembly) was
	about 80 pounds.  Get a quote and find out, the incremental cost of 
	having someone else do it might not be too much...

	Dave

    
    A good(?) place to try might be one of these Mr. Clutch type places
    (check Yellow Pages). They claim to be cheap and offer a 1 year
    warranty.
    
    Doing it everyday, all day, they should be quick too!
    
    Mark

    Since we've gone into anecdotes (.-2) clutch changing on my Ford Escort
    used to be an engine out job.
    
    I eventually perfected the technique of detaching engine, gearbox,
    front sub-frame and suspension, amd lifting the car body off same and
    wheeling it back into the garage. Used to take about 2-hours for the
    "body-off" job, plus 2 helpers for the final lift!!
    
    JK

    
    I *think* Honda have their U.K. headquarters near Oxford on the A34.
    
    If that is the case does any kind soul have the phone/fax number please
    ?
    
    Ta,
    
    Rih
    

I've always had success with...

	Honda UK
	Power Road,
	Chiswick
	London W4 5BR

	081-747-1400

    Re: .393
    
    Welll......... It was a BDA engined Escort used for Rallying and all my
    domestic transport. Clutches tended to last about 20,000 miles so that
    meant three changes a year!
    
    JK (-: (I knew someone would ask (-:)

RE: .390

   Mark,
   I had a Mr.Clutch of Aldershot replace the clutch on my GTI.

   First the young chap nearly assumed the 1600cc engine's clutch was    
   suitable, then on my return I found he had broken a gear linkage rod.

   On driving home I noticed he had not reconnected the speedo 
   drive into the hold in the gearbox.

   Returning for one of the endless "Clutch Checks" required to retain   
   the Warranty, I reported the clutch dragging.  I then find out that   
   second hand "Fully reconditioned clutches" are being used.  
   Cable adjusted, I'm told the problem will go away as it wears in.

   Next visit I return with an Engineers report stating the clutch is    
   not functioning correctly, probably a spring tired, also the       
   main gearbox/engine mounting bold has been stripped.  I return 
   to find the flywheel required skimming, wasn't noticed first time 
   (!). Will be done next door, free-of-charge.  New clutch put back in  
   with smooth flywheel.

   On driving home I see my speedo isn't working, return to find    
   the drive was inserted incorrectly and nylon gear has been ruined.


   As you can see, the advantage of Mr.Clutch is a low price and a    
   fast service, potentially around two hours.

   I do not feel lucky enough to return for such "unreliable quality".
   Rob.   

    
    Address for Lotus please - Norfolk somewhere I believe
    
    Ta,
    
    Rich
    

    I know it's not the full address but it's in a village called Hethel, I
    believe.  Once had a girlfriend who lived just down the road from the
    factory......

    So the address is probably:-

    		Lotus Cars,
    		Hethel,
    		Norfolk.       (?)

                ELECTRONIC YELLOW PAGES
                        * * * * * * LISTING SCREEN * * * * * *
                        OPTIONS
                        < > Lotus Cars
                             Potash Lane
                              Hethel, Norfolk, NR14 8EZ
                               Wymondham(Norfo (0953) 608000
    

    Any suggestions as to what sort of glue one should use for affixing
    the rear-view mirror to the car windscreen ?
    
    Mine is in the wrong position and I would like to move it, but I
    want to know that it will stay on afterwards (if it comes off OK).
    
    J.R.

	I didn't think that they were glued, I thought that they used
	those little black sticky-both-sides pads (mine does anyway).
	You can get locktight glass super-glue, I used to use that stuff
	on the handle for a sidelight of an old Fiat.  Each time I fixed it
	it would last about 6 months before dropping off.

	Dave

    DON'T used loctite or any other super glue, it can cause the glass to
    crack (from a windscreen fiting specialist)
    
    You can get suitable pads to stick the mirror back on, I got some from
    that parts shop next to circle K opposite what was one-stop on the
    basingstoke road in reading.
    
    Richard

    If you stick it with one of those double-sided sticky pads then be
    prepared for it to fall off, at 3am,  when you've left your car at a
    friends house for a week, accidentily without keys, while you're on
    holiday , setting off you're car alarm.
    
    dave :-)

    I used super-glue on the rear view mirror on my Metro a few years back
    and the windscreen did not crack in any way. The mirror never fell off
    again either.
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen

I bought a special two part glue which is supposed to stick the
mirror to the windscreen. You paint the mirror and the windscreen 
with one part of the glue, leave for ten minutes, then apply the
other part to the mirror, leave for five minutes, then press the
two together.

It stayed on for 6 days !!! Not bad for UKL 4 !!! There's probably 
enought glue left to try again at least two more times. That would
make 18 days for 4 quid ... worth every penny too.

	If superglue and glass don't mix, how come they glue modern 
	windscreens in?

	Dave

Perhaps they don't glue them in with superglue ...

Is it right that superglue was invented to glue people back together
during the Vietnam war ... to get then from the battle field to the
hospital ? Someone told me this is why it is so easy to stick you
fingers together with the stuff ...

    I couldn't find any of the proper pads, so tried various glues etc.,
    the mirror kept falling off after various lengths of time, untill I
    eventually got the proper thing and it has now been in situ for 9
    months without falling off.
    
    M:

    John,
    
    I too used one of the 'proper' pads, at least 18 months ago. No
    problems so far. The secret, if it is a secret, is in ensuring both
    surfaces are absolutely clean. I used meths and a clean rag. Making
    sure the two surfaces are warm helps, and I didn't put any weight on it
    for an hour or two (ie. left the mirror off the stalky bit).
    
    Laurie.

Does the pad absorbe the vibration perhaps, where direct glueing will fracture ?

Where do you get these pads, the dealership, or an accessory shop ?

    J.R. is your problem that you want the mirror higher up the windscreen
    ?
    
    A guy I know has a Cavalier and the mirror is quite low down blocking
    his vision so he turn the mirror upsidedown and its a big improvement.
    
    Any other vauxhall drivers tried this ?
    
    Roy

    
>>     Any other vauxhall drivers tried this ?
    
    Not a problem on my Calibra, but my dad's Cavalier has this problem. 
    I'll pass on the tip! 
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mark

    Re mirror position
    
    The mirror is too high on my windscreen.
    
    One problem this causes is that the sun visors can't really be used.
    
    Second, more importantly, is that I can only see the lower two-thirds
    of any car which is behind me.
    
    With the mirror lowered to its correct position, the angle of view
    should improve so that I can tell if the car behind has anything on
    it's roof...  (no, I haven't fallen foul of this problem)
    
    In that position, I am sure that it will intrude into my forward
    viewing area a small amount, but that is easy to deal with by
    simply adjusting my head !
    
    J.R.

    A question regarding the steering rack as fitted to the Triumph Herald.
    
    I use one of these on my kit car and would like to know what is
    normally done with regard the 'lubrication' or 'vent' hole that I
    can see on the rack housing.
    
    As it is, there is a small plastic plug (loose fit) sitting in the
    hole, with the rack bar visible below this.  The hole (and plug) are
    in covered by the rack mountings anyway, but I could easily drill a
    hole through the mounting block if there is any reason to do so.
    
    So, is this normally covered up on a Herald (or on other kits that
    use this rack) ?  Is it for [light] lubrication ?  Is it a vent ?
    
    My initial view is that I should grind down the plug a bit so that
    it is not at all proud of the rack and assemble the mounting over that.
    
    J.R.

    
    The plug (which has a hex headed plug, as I recall, on the Marcos) is
    for lubrication (grease, I think) and shouldn't be covered by the rack
    mountings.
    
    Mark
    
    PS All this applies to the installation in a Marcos, of course.
    

    
    Maybe it's a different thing?
    
    Mark

    John,
    	the plastic plug you are refering to does indeed fit under the
    steering rack mounts, I have often wondered what this was for,and
    assumed it was to take the play out of the rack.
    
    					Andy.. 

	Just a guess, but on the Ford steering rack there's a plastic
	bit that bears onto the stearing "pole" (the toothed round-section
	pipe in the middle).  This plastic piece bears down enough to
	wieight the steering (damp it,  I guess).  There are little 
	shims to help you get the pressure right.  The steering rack on
	the Marlin is c20 years old and that bit of plastic hasn't worn
	out yet.  It is round in section and looks roughly (very roughly)
	like the diagram below:

	
		+------+
		|      |
                |      |
                |  _   |
                | /  \ |
                +-    -+

    I presume the Herald and Spitfire have the same steering rack.
    
    Mine (the steering rack) has a grease nipple on it, and I have seen the
    plug you mention, in metal on other models.
    
    So I guess the hole is for lubrication, once a grease nipple has been
    screwed in the position of the plug.
    
    Paul

    Hum, I think I must have missunderstood you.
    
    With your diagram things were all of a sudden clear to me - the grease
    nipple on mine is on the actual stearing box.
    
    I do not believe that I have this breather hole.
    
    Paul

Noticed something at the back of the car scheme book yesterday...

I read it as the cost of the car canot exceed 20% of your pay.

Does this mean that....

you have  to earn 14750 to use your 2950 allowance
you have to earn 17800 to use your 3560 allowance

I would imagine that there would be few cases of this coming into play, but it
may be a limit on your choice of car that is easily missed.

any thoughts ???

David J. Darrall

That's what I stated in note 2100.134 but nobody seemed to understand :-)
I may be testing out this theory soon...
tp

    re last couple.
    
    the 20% of salary is the maximum amount you can ADD to the existing
    supplement. for example 20% of your salary on top the 2950 etc. The
    rational is that the company does not want people spending 50% of
    salary on a Porsche (some hope) then you leave and the cost centre is
    stuck with the cost of the car.
    
    Don't shoot me down here, I'm only the messenger!
    
    malcolm
    

>you have to earn 17800 to use your 3560 allowance

Surely such a salary would be off the bottom of the scale.

Dave.

	Level 8 is   17,580 to 29,320
	Level 9 is   20,100 to 33,500

	So it's very close!

	Heather

Re: .431

> Surely such a salary would be off the bottom of the scale.

Since when did digital pay within salary bands.....they just make the bands 
wider if they find an exception.

    
    
    Now that the rainy season is well and truly here ....
    
    I know that petrol engines can be flooded out by water -
      plugs , points etc. (right?) when hitting a large puddle/lake/loch,
      but what about diesels ??
    What does it take to flood them, and what does it affect ??

It doesn't affect the engine itself, there are no important electrics, at 
least in the short term. 

There are two potential problems; Firstly, if you have an unprotected air 
intake which sucks in a load of water, life will get very interesting when 
one of your pistons tries to compress it - clue: it is unlikely to succeed.

Secondly, and this happens to mine from time to time, the turbo appears to 
give up. I'm not sure why (I know squat about turbos) as I thought it was 
belt driven,  but there you are.

M. (I've had the frontera out of its depth several times)

    The only excuse that I can think of a turbo giving up on a diesel due
    to water is from the stress caused by rapid cooling of the housing
    after water hits it.   IMHO, diesels will just keep on running unless
    the intake is blocked.   If you like to soak your engine alot, I would
    suggest driving it a while afterwords to make sure the alternator is
    dried out.
    
    Be aware that some manufactures have used electronic fuel injection
    on their diesels in recent years.  I know that Pug was using electronic
    FI on their diesels here in the US just prior to their departure(the
    wimps).   I know that electronic FI gives better fuel management thus
    better mileage and lower emissions.
    
    
    Dale   

>>>Secondly, and this happens to mine from time to time, the turbo appears to 
>>>give up. I'm not sure why (I know squat about turbos) as I thought it was 
>>>belt driven,  but there you are.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>M. (I've had the frontera out of its depth several times)

	If the xxxxxCharger were belt driven, it would be a SuperCharger, NOT a
TurboCharger, which is by definition a Turbine driven by (exhaust) gases.

				Malcolm.

The only other electric point not covered is the fuel supply solenoid.

Diesels, once started, continue to run until they run out of fuel. therefore the 
only way to turn them off is to physically disrupt the fuel supply. The old 
lorries used to have a mechanical lever. 

The modern cars have an electric solenoid built into the fuel 
pump/meter/distributor. If you look at the front of the engine, you should see the 
pipes coming from an injector for each cylinder, converging back to a large block 
covered in various levers, to which the accelerator cable also goes. On this you 
should see a single thin wire (it has practically no current load). This is the 
supply turned off by the ignition key that stops the engine.

Near the accelerator lever you should also find a lever that can be manually 
pushed which will also turn off the engine. Seems this is the mechanical backup!
 
Submerging the car to this level may short out the supply and thus stop the 
engine!

Richard

    I think this counts as silly - from one in the county of rolling
    acres...
    
    What route suggestions for Luton to Arundel? leaving Luton 4:30pm on
    this Friday. How's the M25 these days?
    
    All thoughts gratefully received.
    
    Andrew

	Sorry Andrew - silly answer maybe - does it have to be 4:30PM on a
Friday?

	Being a little less silly, I would avid M1/M25/Manything on a Friday
evening if possible!  Unfortunately (!!!) the nearest to a straightline is via
M1/M25/A3 to Guidford then Cross-country.

			Malcolm.

    Luton - Dunstable - Ivinghoe - Aylesbury - A40 - Oxford bypass south -
    A34 - Newbury - Winchester - M27 - Portsmouth - Chichester - Arundel 

    Avoid Newbury on A34 at teatime!
    
    Howabout round the dartford side of the M25?
    
    Jc
    

    The Dartford side, then down the M23, and along the A27.