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Note 932.0*              Drive a Race Car - Brands Hatch              No replies
SWEEP::ALFORD "all civilization began with beer..."  41 lines  22-JAN-1990 09:32
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    This was entered in the Basingstoke Sports & Social Club notes file.
    
    It may be of some interest !
    
    Please reply to the entry in the SPORTS_SOCIAL.NOTE  
    
    (Press KP7 to add it to your NOTEBOOK) 
    
    
    
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                         -< The Crescent S & SC Rules >-
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Note 96.0                     Driving a RACING CAR                     2 replies
SHAPES::MCLOUGHLING                                  23 lines  18-JAN-1990 14:14
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    If there is interest in driving a racing car at Brands Hatch, please
    reply to this entry. Hopefully, the sports and social club will 
    sponsor the event.
    
    
    The events are organised by the racing circuits and consist of the
    following;
    
    	o Briefing session
    	o Safety tips
    	o Lapping the circuit in a sports saloon 
    	  (an instructor assesses your driving)
    	o Driving analysis 
          (after drive discussion)
    	o High speed drive by the instructor
        o Lapping the circuit in a single seater
          (driving a Formula first single seater)
    	o Personal Instruction session
    	  (personal instructor for improvements)
    	o Timed laps in a Formula first
    
    
    
    

I deliberately created a new note because it had nothing to do with Thruxton !

and now the Press KP7 bit doesn't work !

the conference concerned is CURRNT""::SPORTS_SOCIAL

...you can press KP7 on this reply instead :-)

    I went on the Brands full day course same time as this note was
    created...had a great day. Beware though, if you spin off the course
    you will be flagged in....It was raining hard the day I went..and about
    5 people had to come in whilst in the single seater...one kid was on
    his first lap, spun off and was told to come in, his dad was demanding
    a refund!!...I clocked the fastest lap that day (lap 9 of 10), but
    only after several warnings!!!
    
    There must be better sessions though...be nice to take your own car
    round...or an unlimited, as many spins as you like day!

                          
    Castle Coombe race circuit does 'drive your own car' sessions. They let
    five cars at a time onto the circuit, than if you want another go, you
    join the queue again when you come off. I've no idea what it costs, or
    if there are any regs. regarding the cars; I don't think they can be
    very strict, from what I've seen, but I do believe the driver has to
    have a helmet. 
    
    Try ringing Merlin Motorsport, (at the circuit) even if they don't
    know, they'll be able to put you onto the right number!
    (Sorry, I havn't got Merlin's number with me)

    Re .11   This is what I went on the other week.
    
    Re .28   I can certainly appreciate the difference, but it was fun !
    
    
    I went to Thruxton for the the chance to drive round the circuit.
    It really isn't much more than that, but here goes...
    
    First of all, the trip there, due for a 9:30 start (on a Thursday).
    The weather was absolutely atrocious, with serious wind and rain.
    Driving along the A303, which is a decent dual carriageway, I was
    following at a fair distance behind some big Merc, that was at the
    time overtaking a lorry.  If the Merc were not there, I would have
    been going a bit quicker, but no worry keeping at the same speed,
    especially with all the standing (and running) water and lots of spray.
    
    What should happen, but some young jerk in a Toyota GTi decides that he
    wanted to go quicker than me.  That's up to him really, but I was also
    catching up on traffic on the inside (and the lorry) and was not going
    to give the Merc any hassle (it's bigger than me ;-).  But the GTi
    driver decided to drive right 'up my ar*e', a move which I did not
    like at all.  Seeing as how I wasn't going to slow down and pull over
    behind traffic that I was soon to overtake, and that there was another
    car ahead of me, I felt somewhat antagonised.  So, my response was
    not one of 'mild mannered Clark Kent', nor of an 'Ayrton Senna' (or
    should that be a 'Nigel Mansell' nowadays ?).  What I did was to slow
    down a bit and make an obscene gesture to the GiT behind me.
    
    Not clever, I know, but conditions were foul, I was driving quick
    enough and 'who was this jerk who wanted me and the car in front
    to speed up just for him'...  His response was to swing across to the
    left-hand lane and go to 'under-take' my car - with the lorry ahead
    in the left-hand lane, I really had no choice but to speed up just
    that little bit ( ;-) to avoid the Git from pulling out in front of me !
    
    Of course, this 'obstructive' maneuver (sp) did not cheer up young
    matey in the left-hand lane, who then waved his dissent at me.  This
    was great, as I was not really wound up and kept nice and calm, making
    sure not to get too close to the big Merc in front of me, nor the lorry
    on the left.  To 'rub salt in', my Wife was in the passenger seat
    and simply smiled at the occupants (four in all) of the Toyota and
    returned their gestures with relish.
    
    Once past the lorry, I did pull in to the left hand lane and let the
    young whipper-snapper go by.  If he hadn't been so stroppy to begin
    with, he would have got past much sooner.
    
    Anyhow, I continued to the circuit (long trip on Notes, wasn't it ?).
    
    Pulling up into the car park area, what car should I see parked up,
    but a red Toyota GTi, this certainly brought a smile to my face  :-)
    
    Sign-on was followed by a period of waiting, during which it seemed
    to take a while for Dopey to realise that I was the driver he had
    been waving abuse at on the way in.  He then looked very sheepish...
    I was sorely tempted to make a comment along the lines of -
    	'Shouldn't you learn to drive on the road before coming here'
    but I behaved myself and let it all pass.
    
    Proceedings began with the 'lecture' on how to drive around the circuit.
    This was given by Ian Taylor.  Any 'partners' were more than welcome
    to sit in on this, as it wasn't restricted to 'drivers only'.
    
    This instruction gave various explanations as to what should and should
    not be done on the track, with reasons for these points.  I must say
    that I didn't pick up any new ideas here, since I have read endless
    amounts of 'theory' over the years, and basically wanted to try it out.
    
    I have, in the past, been around Brands Hatch Club circuit when they
    used to run some 250cc (four-stroke) Karts there - on three occasions.
    The first two of these were on a wet track, the third was in the dry
    and it made a hell of a difference.  Of course, this trip was also in
    the wet - with puddles of water all over the circuit and strong wind.
    Not the ideal conditions for an intro to circuit driving...
    
    After the lecture, drivers were grouped into threes to be taken around
    the circuit by the instructors in Rover 220 Gti's, of which they had
    seven, all in standard road-going form.  Of course, sod's law meant
    that I was in the same group as Sh!thead, and even had to sit in the
    back of the car with him.  It's amazing how he suddenly came over all
    chatty and friendly then !  On my part, I near enough ignored him, or
    else I would have had to tell him just what I thought of his attempt
    to speed me up on the main road.
    
    So, we were allocated our instructor, who then proceeded to overtake
    all the other instructors on the circuit.  In the mean time, he was
    explaining the position to drive in, where to brake, etc.  The turn-in,
    apex end exit points for all bends were marked with cones to help us all.
    
    After four laps of this, it was time to drive the Rover in company with
    the instructor, one at a time (with no other passengers).  Over the
    next set of laps, I concentrated entirely on driving the correct line
    and paid less attention to the actual speed being attained.  This was
    probably the best way to do things, as when I did check my speed, it
    was only about 10 mph slower than the instructor through the bends.
    
    When these laps were complete, the instructor then filled in a points
    sheet, making comments on my driving.  I am pleased to say that I got
    71 points (out of 100) and was credited with a 'very good drive' comment.
    I also didn't think to 'heel and toe', since it wasn't particularly
    needed on the Rover, but marks were given for this, so I dropped a
    couple of points that I certainly could have attained (note that I do
    tend to heel and toe a lot in my road car, so it's not new to me).
    I did repeatedly apex early on one particular corner (Noble), but other
    than that I got the 'right' line and drove smoothly around the track.
    
    I was more pleased when I found out that the annoying GiT got a score
    'in the high fifties' !!!
    
    So, the next step was to do some laps in an FF1600.  First problem here
    was getting into the car.  My hips were too wide for the first one that
    was tried, so I was moved to another.  This time, I did fit - but not
    before the 'waterproofs' (they were not ;-) managed to almost cause me
    an injury !  If you did not fit into these cars, you would be put in a
    2000cc car instead, but it was decided that I did fit.  Since I liked
    the idea of trying both cars, I didn't mind too much though.
    
    Having familiarised myself with the controls - not that there are
    many of them - it was off onto the track.  I should point out that
    these cars are normally rev-limited to 4000rpm, but since the track
    conditions were so bad, this was reduced to 3500rpm.  Shame.
    
    As for the driving on the circuit, there really isn't a lot I can say.
    The track seemed extremely wide, but once up to speed on the line we
    were instructed to use, you soon use up the full width.  Performance
    was really nothing to write home about, mainly due to the rev limit.
    I also think that because of the wet track, there was little feeling
    of speed through the corners since I was not putting up any great
    cornering forces.  On these laps, it didn't take long before I caught
    up with someone else.  Following them was awful, with all the spray
    that was coming off of the wheels.  This was made worse by the fact that 
    I was driving with the visor open so that I could see at all !
    Having made the brave decision to pass the car ahead, I then found a
    couple more cars which also had to be overtaken.  Once past these cars,
    without incident, my laps were over and it was back to the pits.
    
    Next option is to pay extra for some laps in one of the 2-litre cars.
    These were either FF2000 or Sports 2000 vehicles.  Since I had been
    in a single seater (not too comfortably) I chose to drive the Sports
    car, since it is technically a two-seater.  Getting in this time was
    *much* easier, with a more upright seating position being better too (IMO).
    One disadvantage with this style of car is that it fills up with water !
    Sitting down meant putting backside in one puddle, and legs/feet in
    another...  These cars use wings+slicks, rather than the road tyres and
    'no aero devices' on the FF1600, plus the larger engine, so they are
    quicker vehicles on the track.  Again, due to the weather, a 3500 rpm
    rev limit was in use, as well as 'wets' rather than dry slicks.
    
    This time out was more fun.  Visibility was better and the engine had
    a bit of torque below this rev limit, so at least some semblance of
    acceleration could be felt.  Cornering used the same lines as before,
    but I did find that the cross wind at the back of the circuit moved
    the car off line, whereas it had little effect on the 1600.  What was
    a real 'suprise' the first time round was when crossing some water on
    the way into one of the bends, when the car simply moved sideways by
    abnout a foot.  Not really a lot, but when you've just turned into a
    bend in a car you are unfamiliar with, it is a bit of a shock.  On
    subsequent laps, I expected this at this particular point and it was
    no problem.  I'm glad to say that I also managed to overtake again
    on these laps (although it was definitely not racing) and did enjoy
    the time on the track.  Pity is is not for longer though.
    
    So, all told I enjoyed myself a lot.  I would also like to go back,
    if I can be assured of good weather next time out (in the UK !  ;-).
    
    I'm not too sure of whether it is 'good value', but since there is not
    much choice if you want to go on a circuit, is there any point in even
    questioning this aspect ?
    
    At least if/when I get my AROC membership and attend a 'track day', I
    will have a little bit of an idea what to expect when let loose...
    
    J.R.

    Cost was, I think, 79 pounds - plus 40 quid for laps in the 2-litre.
    
    J.R.

    I am hoping to go to Goodwood this Sunday for an owners club track day,
    (in my Alfa).  Does anyone know any information about this circuit ?
    
    In particular, is it wide or narrow, bumpy or smooth ?
    Is it tight, requiring lower-gear action ?  How long is it ?
    
    J.R.

Goodwood is quite long, around 2.3 miles (it's been a while since I drove there) 
very flat and wide, the main problem at race car speeds
is that you can't see what comes next because of it's flatness and the earth 
banks. When you first drive there you really need to study a map! 

It used to be in very good condition, probably still is.

Take it easy, I have seen guys 'total' a Quattro, a V12 E type Roadster, and 
several 'hot hatches'. They have all been road cars, and I suspect the drivers
just got carried away! The guy in the E type was actually trying to outbrake me
entering the chicane in an old March F2 car! As someone said in an earlier
note, there are some mad mad people out there.

Quite honestly, if your car won't do much more than 120, I suspect its NEARLY
all flat out .....when you know your way around!

I think you will need to increase your tyre pressures too.....have fun!

Nigel (who never goes near a race track anymore)

    Thanks for the comments.  Any more ?
    
    Top speed of the car is around 120/125, depending on its health.
    At least I won't have to worry about the poor synchro on changing
    down to second, if the circuit doesn't have a lot of slow bends.
    
    I do appreciate that almost any road car will seem slow when on a
    race circuit, and that my car is *not* a race car.
    
    It should still be a 'fun' experience all the same.
    
    J.R.

    re.34
    
    I've been around Goodwood in a chipped up RS Turbo, (a friend of mine
    is in the RSOC so we took his car down there for the test day)
    excellent fun.
    On the longest straight on the track we never got into fifth just kept it 
    floored in fourth and got upto 115mph, and still accelerating, before
    having to slow for the slowest part of the track, the chicane which was
    second gear.
    The track surface is very grippy and quite smooth, you'll love it !
    Good luck
    Nick. 

Laurie, re .37/38, really echos what I would have answered. 
Cornering speeds on a circuit are generally much higher than on similar road
bends for obvious reasons. 40 psi was what I had in mind too. I think you would
not benefit in the Frog-eye on the road, because of camber, bump steer etc which
I seem to remember was the problem in my frog-eye, even when it was in 'race trim'
(I use that description loosely you understand!  Used to race it in Healey Club
events, with a BMC Formula Junior Spec A' engine)...FWIW.

To be honest, my total interest in cars/track are now limited to reading this 
file......but there's a distinct danger of entering a second childhood ;-) , 
especially if I found a Frog-Eye which I could run in club events.....arrgh 
what am I saying?

N.

>>To be honest, my total interest in cars/track are now limited to reading this 
>>file......but there's a distinct danger of entering a second childhood ;-) , 
>>especially if I found a Frog-Eye which I could run in club events.....arrgh 
    
    Go on, act childish again !!!   :-)
    
    J.R.

I did the Brands Hatch course (Supertrial) at Christmas, an excellent
day, despite the weather (it rained until just before the start, so
it was all nice and slippery).

Good value as well (I won it in a competition :-)

    Going from memory here - but I'll try to confirm the real answers...
    
    Q1 - a young Danish guy whose name escapes me
    Q2 - Vauxhall
    Q3 - The younger McRae brother, whose name also escapes me	
    
    Wasn't much help really I suppose....

    Correct answers....
    
    Q1 - Jan Magnussen
    Q2 - Vauxhall
    Q3 - Alister McRae
    		

Just in case anyone wins the racing day at Donnington (I've tried as well),
following is a rough idea of what you will do during the day (my wife paid the
full price for my birthday !).

The morning started at 9:30 at the club house on the circuit for driver
registration.  We were then introduced to our different instructors for the days
activities (ranging from a Vauxhall Junior driver, F3000 Driver, Historic GT
driver etc.).  The briefing session took longer than it was supposed to (thank
you to those few late straddlers !) and it was 10:30 before we left the club
house.

The first session of the morning for our group of drivers was the Astra GSi's.
We had a short walk across the car park into the pit area here the Astra's were
parked.  We were briefed about the cones setup on the track, and how to use them
(breaking point, turn in point, clip point and exit point) and then its was off
to the cars.  We were split into groups of three and each group was allocated to
a car.  The instructor took the wheel first with the three members of the group
as passengers.  He drove us round the circuit, screeching tyres and hitting the
rumble strip on the way round, showing us where he was braking where and how he
was turning into the bends.  Having done a couple of laps showing us what to do,
he then took us on a lap showing us what would happen if we did it wrong !
After another lap or so, he returned to the pits, and it was our turn to go !
One we went out on to the circuit while the other two sat in the pits watching
the cars flying down the main straight.  Eventually it was my turn to drive. I
approached the exit of the pits, the instructor looked back and told me I was
clear to go, so I accelerated hard upto the first bend (I hardly needed to break
at the first break point and was way off line for the turn in point).  Having
negotiated this it was accelerate all the way down the hill, negotiating the
sweeping left hander while still accelerating (I bottled out and backed of on
the first few laps), just after straightening up it was hard on the brakes ready
for the sharp right hander.  After exiting the bend there is a short straight,
followed by a moderate right hander onto a longer straight (I noticed we hit
115 mph when then instructor was driving).  At the end of this straight is a
wide 180 bend.  Having turned this single bend into two (it took a while to
manage round as one bend !), it was back onto the power for another straight.
At the end of the straight its break hard, release, then throw it into the
chicane.  Out of the exit from the chicane it then back down the pit straight.
This session was an hour in length so each driver has around 15 minutes on the
track (Unfortunately ours was forshortened to catch up with the delay caused by
the late arrivers !)

After completing the session it was back to the pits, return the helmets and
onto the activity.  For our group, this was a guided tour of the musuem.  The
guide was amusing, informative and a real enthusiast.  After the tour it was
back to the car park for the last activity of the morning - Karting.  A track
had been set up in the car park with lorry tyres, and a number of karts were
sitting ready to run ...  well more like stroll !  There was very little room
or opportunity to overtake, with some of the Karts being faster than the others
(but that's not saying much), whatever position you managed to get in was
generally where you finished.  Hardly able to calm down from the excitment of
the Kart track, it was back to the club house for lunch.  On route was the
obligatory pose in the Vauxhall Junior for the official Photograph.

The afternoon started for our group the way the morning had, in the Atra's.  The
instructors took us round for a couple of laps to refresh our memories.  When we
took to the track in the morning it felt as if he was flying round the circuit,
but in the afternoon he actually went up a couple of gears !  He was fighting it
into a number of the bend, going OVER the rumble strip onto the kurb on the exit
to a number of the curves !  I was impressed !  After we touched down, it was
over to us.  Having felt quite incompetent in the morning session, the afternoon
was *MUCH* better.  The lines seemed to come easier and I didn't seem to brake
so hard before going into the bends (I did, however, have a little bit of
excitement on one of the laps for not scrubbing off enough speed before trying
to negotiate the chicane !).  With the instructor taking up less time, we also
had longer on the track in the afternoon session.

From here our next activity for the afternoon was in the Vauxhall Juniors.  For
this a small section of the track (the Marlborough hair pin ? - PCH ?) was
sectioned off.  Just before we started we were told that for this session the
cars were limited to 4500 RPM (Approx. 90MPH) as approaching the hair pin flat
out (nearly 135MPH) was not a clever idea.  After the short briefing, we donned
our helmets and were allocated a car.  The track was ciruits of the straight
leading to the hair pin.  It wasn't long before I realised that the cars weren't
actualy limited to 4500 RPM, as accelerating in the lower gears became *VERY*
satisfying !  Having completed our session here it was on to the last activity
of the day which was the Formula Finesse and the Skid Control.  Unfortunately
there was a bug in the software which controlled the suspension and steering on
the skid control car (wouldn't you know !) and this activity was replaced with a
Blind Drive.  This involved wearing a helmet with a blcked out visor with a
passenger trying to navigate you round a circuit !

All in all it was an excellent day which I would do again happily.

Shaun.
    

    Re. the CAR Magazine day @ Donington
    
    CAR magazine were 'overwhelmed' with applications for this occasion.
    
    They phoned around applicants, offering an alternative date.
    That was also filled.  So they phoned around other applicants,
    offering yet another date.  I believe that is also full.
    
    I guess they will be even more overwhelmed now, since they repeated
    the advert, with the same original date, in this month's magazine !
    
    If you haven't applied already, I doubt if it's worth trying now.
    
    Glad to say, I'm now going on March 16th (the third date)...
    
    J.R.

    Hi,
    
    I am trying to find out some information for a friend who wants to buy
    her husband some sort of driving present for his birthday.
    
    Does anyone have any information about rally courses in Wales - I know
    there's a place at Silverstone, but they live in Devon!
    
    I've also just contacted Castle Coombe and got details from them about
    circuit racing courses, but I'd also like to contact Thruxton - does
    anyone have the number?
    
    Thanks
    
    Caroline

I got some information and I think it was from Castle Coombe, cos
I wanted to go racing for my birthday.  It turned out you get some tuition
then a few laps in an XR3i then some more tuition and then some laps 
in a proper racing car, but on your own.  No racing at all.  I worked out
the number of laps and the length of the circuit and it came to just over
10 minutes in each type of car (assuming quite a low average of 60 mph).
I didn't bother in the end, I'm sure go-karting is more exciting.

tp

    Hi y'all,
    
         I haven't got the number to hand at the mo, it's at home but the
    racing school at Thruxton is called the Martin Taylor racing school so
    you could try directory enquiries for their number but I have to agree
    with -1 about the courses that they offer (from 79 pounds at Thruxton I
    seem to remember). If no one else posts a number for them I'll post it
    next week. Sorry I cannot do it sooner but I'm not going home until the
    weekend. I don't know if you're interested but one of the better
    courses I've seen on offer was a chance to drive a Golf GTI 16V around
    a rally stage and a Sierra Cossie on tarmac. Never tried it though, but
    it sounded good on paper. Unfotunately the course venue was somewhere
    up North, nowhere near Devon, but if you want some details I'll pick
    them up this weekend also.
    
    Sorry I cannot be of more help.
    
    Cheers
    
    Andy.
    

    Anyone have any phone numbers/recommendations for these kind of days in
    the North West? Ideally near Chorley but anywhere between Liverpool and
    Carlisle considered. A friend has a big birthday coming up.
    
    Thanks
    
    Andrew

Oulton Park race circuit is in Cheshire (Tarpely?) - most circuits have a race
school attached to them.I can look up their number for you if you are interested
in going a bit south of Liverpool. I don't know of anyone who has attended the
school there - but the circuit at Oulton is great!

Elaine