Conference 7.286::home_work

    
    
      Any builder using wafer board is just cutting corners. I
    personally would stay away from it. Unless of course you like
    wafer board. Honestly though, its the absolute cheapest way to
    build. You'll see it in cheapo prefabs all the time.
    
    BAL

>      Any builder using wafer board is just cutting corners.

I imagine the same sort of thing was said about plywood for a long time when it 
first came out - but now no one would even think of using milled boards for 
sheathing.  Waferboard is in fact the absolute cheapest way to build.  That says
nothing about whether it is any good or not.  Everything I've seen says it's
more than strong enough for sheathing - and even strong enough to use as roof
decking.  When I built my house, I used it for the sheathing, but I used
plywood for the roof decking - the specs on the waferboard say it's fine for
decking, but I felt that same baseless uneasyness about using it there.  I
probably should have used it, and saved a couple of hundred bucks. 

It's certainly a good idea to be wary about any new product - the masonite 
clapboards they came out with about 10 years ago are absolute junk - but I 
think waferboard has passed the test by now.

I'm actually facing a similar question right now myself.  I'm building a 
garage, and wondering whether to use waferboard or plywood.  I can't think of 
any reason to be concerned about the waferboard, but I don't like the look of 
the stuff, and it's going to be visible on the interior of the garage.  The 
question right now is - do I dislike the look of it $300 worth?

Paul

> I imagine the same sort of thing was said about plywood for a long time 
>when it first came out - but now no one would even think of using milled 
>    boards for sheathing.  

    My house has them.  
    (Maine Post & Beam uses shiplap for the side sheathing, or at least
    they did 5 years ago).
    
    

  Not sure about this, but...  Ever see a piece of waferboard left out
  in the rain?  It swells up to almost twice its normal thickness.  This
  makes me wonder what happens if a leak develops in the roofing or siding
  over the waferboard.  Wouldn't the damage occur more quickly -- and be
  much more extensive -- than for plywood?

  JP

    re .1, the formaldehyde problem with the glues in the waferboard
    can be a problem to people sensitive to it. This is especially true
    of the waferboard was also used for subflooring and not properly
    sealed. I have a friend whose house used waferboard and I noticed
    the irritating gassing as soon as I walked in (and his was supposedly
    sealed). It took a few years (!!) for it not to be irritating any
    more. I still feel that plywood is better (just built a house with
    no waferboard it it).
    
    Eric

re:.3>

I suppose if you ever sold the house, a buyer may be unimpressed that
wafer board was used.

Brad.

    When the sun goes low and throws shadows across your roof you can
    see where waferboard sagged between rafters.  There will appear
    to be a ridge running up your roofline where each rafter is.  
    
    It doesn't look very good.  It takes about a year for this to show
    up, and it might only show up if the sun hits the roof at the right
    angle.

    If the wafer board was used for just the sheathing how can the next
    buyer tell the differnce?  If it was used for the roof a trip through
    the attic would show the wafer but who checks under the clapboards
    when buying a house?

    George

>    If the wafer board was used for just the sheathing how can the next
>    buyer tell the differnce?


	Well, the author of the base note found out.

Larry

    If you think that wafer board is cheap, then don't buy a house in
    Colorado. the builders use a thermal insulate board that is more
    dense than corregated cardboard but less dense than masonite. The
    board has a foil on either side and is usually stapled to the house
    with the siding right on top of that. The board has no structural
    strength. Can't imagine that they could use that stuff in earthquake
    country.
    
    /cal

    re ~~.2 Paul on building your garage...
    
    I went the wafer board route.  My neighbor felt as you do and went
    with plywood.  He wished he had gone with the wafer board.
    
    The plywood that they are manufacturing  these days is not what
    it used to be.  There are many internal voids.  He was very unhappy
    to have spent all that money buying quality and not getting it.

    re: .8
    
    Visible sag between joists is not limited to waferboard.  Code lets
    you put 1/2" sheathing on the roof on 24" centers.   After enough
    years of snow loading, you'll see sag on CDX plywood.

    
    I've seen waferboard after a water leak.  The stuff literally
    disintegrates.  I think plywood would be more durable.
    
    Phil

I put 1/2 plywood on a roof on the addition I built on my last house and saw
sags even on 16" centers.  For a few extra bucks I put 5/8 on my current roof.

-mark

    The question of what sheathing material to use is based on what
    you expect from sheathing.
    
    In standard stick construction (2x4s as opposed to post and beam) 
    the sheathing is supposed to act as a gusset to keep the walls from 
    racking in the breeze.
    Plywood, even stuff with voids, will do this; waferboard will not.
    The side to side pressure will enlarge the nail holes so that you
    have no stability.
    
    Any wall sheathed with waferboard, or insulation board (30 years
    ago they were using something that looked like 5/8" thick tar paper)
    must have additional wind braces (diagonal braces cut into the
    wall framing in the corners). These can present problems with window
    and door placement.
    
    When wafer board first came out the General contractor (a good one)
    I was working for tried some out. It had been sold as though it
    was just like plywood. After we had the house sheathed we went up
    and started to shingle the roof. One guy could get the whole house
    rocking by shifting his weight. Needless to say we immediately went
    back and cut in the wind braces. The GC never used the stuff again.
    Neither will I.
    
    
    Alan

    Looks like there might be a bit of confusion here:
    
    There are two different types of sheet material made from little
    pieces of wood: particle board and wafer board.
    
    Particle board is made of sawdust glued together.  It is HEAVY,
    smooth, dense, and cheap.  It is also very weak (you can literally
    break it in two with your hands), and turns to mush after being
    soaked.  Particle board is good for applications where you need
    a very smooth surface, such as when you are laminating countertops.
    
    Wafer board, and a newer version called oriented strand board, is
    made up of flakes of wood -- typically 4"-6" long -- glued together.
    It is comparable  in strength to plywood, usually has a somewhat
    lumpy surface, and is a little heavier than plywood.  Waferboard
    does not fall apart when wet -- I made a cover for a wood pile from
    waferboard, and left it outside with no protection or finish.  After
    weathering for a couple of years, the surface was beginning to
    delaminate a little, but it was still sound.  Plywood would have
    weathered at least as much.
    
    I'll admit an emotional preference for plywood, but after working
    with some of the junk plywood that is around today, I'm beginning
    to wonder.
    
    One significant disadvantage of waferboard is that the glue is rough
    on tools -- either use carbide blades, or be prepared to go through
    a lot of saw blades.

    RE: .17
    
>        lumpy surface, and is a little heavier than plywood.  Waferboard
>    does not fall apart when wet -- I made a cover for a wood pile from
>    waferboard, and left it outside with no protection or finish.  After

	There is no confusion on my part here.  I know what particle
    board is.  I know what waferboard is.  I saw waferboard used as
    sheating after it had been soaked (faulty deck installation) and
    the stuff was *falling apart*.  Maybe there is interior/exterior
    grade waferboard.
    
    Phil

    
    
      After reading most of the replies, It looks like wafer board gets
    the ax. I've talk to a couple contractors on the subject and they
    repeated my original reply. "The stuff is junk and only used to
    save money". I consider a house a long time investment that deserves
    the best materials. A savings of 3 hundred bucks on a 100,000 dollar
    house is not worth considering. 
      Those power staplers they use to put shingles on prefabs have
    to be on low low low power or else they blow holes right through  
    wafer board. 
      Do your own test go to a lumber yard and buy a sheet of plywood
    and one wafer board. Then try to snap off the corner with your hand.
    Wafer board breaks apart, but you won't snap the plywood.
    
    
    Always buy with resale value in mind!! Wafer board is not good for
    resale value, ask any realtor!!
    
    
    BAL

    
    I am using plywood - CDX to be exact. Everytime that I do sheathing,
    I have to ask myslef the question ... does the 'C' side go in or
    out? I am about ready to put some on my three season porch so thought
    I'd ask. I'll end up looking it up somewhere if I get no answer
    here. My house is about 18 years old - looking at the garage from
    inside, some shows the C side and some the D ... so I can't rely
    on that! Memory serves me that the C side goes in. Agree??
    
    

The "C" & "D" refer to the quality of the sanding finish on the two sides.  Put
whatever side you want on the outside.    That which makes it exterior, "X", is
the glue that hold the plys together.

Dave

    re .21
    
    Which side (C or D) has the higher quality finish?
    
    Jim

>    Which side (C or D) has the higher quality finish?

C.

Plywood grades from A-D dictate the size of possible imperfections and 
patches.  A being the best and D being whatever happens to get put on.

Bob

    Theoretically, you put the C side outside since it should be smoother
    and there is less chance of visible imperfections in siding/shingling
    due to an uneven surface, but this is a pretty fine point since
    (a) it's unlikely to be a problem, and (b) the C and D sides of
    CDX ply aren't all that different.

    I looked around for other notes on this, but couldn't 
    find any listed. The most likely place I would have
    thought to have found it was in AIR_QUALITY. Didn't
    even find any topics on RADON. 
    
    I am looking for actual hard figures on off-gassing
    for products, in particular particle board VS. plywood.
    
    When I collected some figures for cost on the two products
    what I found was that the plywood at nearly $20 a sheet of
    5/8" was twice the cost of particle board. The last time I 
    purchased any plywood was 3.5 years ago and for 5/8" it
    was about $11. What an increase!
    
    Unfortunately I put down the particle board to save $100.
    The smell was pretty strong the first month, but now is
    unnoticable. But I am still concerned with the dangers from
    this product. 
    
    An article I just on this subject didn't give any details
    on how bad these formaldehyde based products are in comparison
    with each other. It did say the dangers from these products
    can last for years. It also said that hardboard gives off the
    least of these gases, but I assume they were speaking of the
    stuff that is aboout 1/8" thick.
    
    The only other choice I had was 440 board which is
    stuck together with wax, therefore no formaldehyde. One of 
    the drawbacks is that it can be easily be punctured with
    high heels, etc.
    
    Another possibility I have considered was letting particle
    board off-gas for a year with no one using the room (it will take me
    that long to finish anyway) and then painting it. Probably
    only to cover with some formaldehyde based carpeting.
    But if I can find some carpeting that doesn't have all this
    crap in it, I'll buy it.
    
    So, should I rip this stuff up and put down the 440?
    
    
    	thanks, Steve
    

Steve:

  There are (apparently) some European standards for formaldehyde
  emmisions as at least one the high-line European cabinet makers
  crows about how their cabinets meets the standard.  I have no
  idea if there are similar American standards.

  As I understand it, a lot of the "do I care or not" argument depends
  on an individual's susceptibility to formaldehyde.  Some individuals
  are very promptly affected by very low concentrations while others
  seem quite tolerant.  (I've built and lived with a fair number of
  unfaced flake-board projects and can't claim to have noticed any
  effects.)

  It probably also depends upon how well the adhesive was formulated/
  catalyzed.  As you'll recall from the UFFI disaster, the amount of
  formaldehyde emmitted from the insulation was *VERY* variable, to
  saythe least.

  Are there any reports of long-term carcinogenic effects?  (I think
  so but I don't know at what thresholds.)

  And choice of flakeboard versus other materials may not solve the
  problem, as even plywood is layed-up with similar glues.

  What's the finish flooring going to be?  What avenues of gas escape
  exist from the bottom-side of the particleboard?

                                   Atlant

    FWIW- Spider Plants are well known for their ability to absorb
    formeldehyde from the air(almost to the point of becoming toxic
    themselves) maybe hanging a few in the room might help.
    
    

    for someone who is sensitive it takes about 3 years.  also normal
    people will develop alergies.  stick with the plywood of less glues.
    I have found a manuafacture that produces some thing called apple
    core plywood that off gasses in two months.  it costs $70 for 3/4
    sheet and only comes in maple.   this does have formalhyde as the
    glue base but does not have voids so there is not large areas of
    glue only to take a long time to off gas.

    Another item on this unfinished house I'm looking at is there are some
    areas where the sheathing was left exposed. Two small areas on either
    side of the chimmney on the west side of the house, another small section
    on the north side. The broker stated the house has been in this
    condition for about a year (that means 18-24 months in reality).
    Should the sheathing (plywood) be replaced? What should I check for
    to see if it's still sound? Could there be damage to the frame from
    the sheathing being exposed for so long? Also, the tyvek either blew
    off or was removed from the west side. What is the best way to "patch"
    it so that barrier stays intact?
    
    John

    I hope this is the right place for this question -- if not, please
    refer me elsewhere.  Now that I know what "sheating" is (thanks to
    this note), I am wondering what you know about "aspenite sheathing".
    I am looking at a new house, and the specs for frame say:
    
    	"2x4 exterior walls"
    	"Aspenite sheathing"
    
    Is this just another newer improved form of waferboard, or something
    else?
    
    Thanks for your help.
    
    Carol