Conference 7.286::home_work

    I forgot to mention that the water problem was probably aggravated
    some years back when a previous owner removed the gutters in the
    front, greatly increasing the amount of water falling onto the porch.
    
    /D

    Have you considered replacing the sill in two pieces ? That way
    you would not be removing all support at once. Thats what I did
    when I replaced the sill on the pantry of my house.
    
    dave

    Re .-1;
    
    Fortunately, the rotted section looks to be only about 10 feet in
    total length, right behind and a foot or so to either side of the
    porch, so I only have a small section to replace (assuming I find
    no other great surprises when I open things up).
    
    One piece of advice I got is that I should nail a 2x6 or 2x8 across
    the face of the house a couple of studs on either side beyond the
    section I'm replacing.  That will act as a temporary "flying brace"
    to prevent sagging.  (I should have thought of that.  It's the same
    thing you do when cutting a new window opening to brace the wall
    before you build the frame.)
    
    /Butch

    I found a place where there is no still under my kitchen.   The
    rafters are just sitting there on top of the bricks.   Also to top
    it off there is only one row of bricks.
      The question that comes to my mind is that would the rafters sitting
    on top of the bricks grind the bricks down when you are walking
    on the floor?

    Well, I DID IT!  Turned out to be fairly simple, but strenuous work.
    
    I opened up the face of the house around the porch, removing the
    clapboards and sheathing (1x6 rough fir, lots easier to remove the
    right bits than if it had been sheathed in plywood).  I also removed
    the vertical trim boards from the door.
    
    For partial support, I got a 2x6 that extended 2 studs beyond the
    rotted area on either side and nailed that across the face of the
    house into the studs, 2 12d nails per stud.  From under the basement
    I stacked wood blocks on top of the major cross beams close to the
    foundation wall and wedged them up to provide some extra support
    to the load bearing walls running on top of the beams (these were
    those two beams crossing either side of the center of the basement,
    see my crude drawing in .0).  As a precaution I rented a couple
    of 15 ton jacks and had a heavy support beam ready, though it turned
    out that the house face was supported well enough that that wasn't
    required.
    
    I rented a Sawz-all, a highly efficient piece of compact destruction,
    for the removal of the old stuff.  I drilled starter holes thru
    the sill beams a good foot beyond the signs of water damage, then
    cut out the sill in chunks.  Every couple of feet I threw in a
    temporary bracing wall of paired 2x4 beams with lots of short 2x4
    studs.  That took about 3-4 hours for the 10 foot section I was
    getting rid of.  The wood in the worst sections had degenerated
    to a fairly poor grade of soil, complete with earthworms.  Fortunately
    no sign of carpenter ants or termites, and the rot had not gotten
    up into the floor.
    
    A good, strong friend came over the next day, and we cut new 2x6s
    to fit on top of the foundation wall (easy), then a new 2x10 to
    go on top of those.  All pressure treated lumber, I hasten to add.
    The hard part, because of the limited space we were working in,
    was to get the 2x10 upright.  We had to fit it in tilted and then
    use a sledge and blocks to horse it upright.  After some discussion,
    we cut a small bevel on one edge of the beam to reduce the resistance
    to getting it upright.  Since the edge is still a little over an
    inch wide, I don't believe I lost any significant load bearing
    capability.  After that it was basically a matter of toenailing,
    fitting in some angle braces and straps where it was too tight to
    wield a hammer but (just barely) wide enough for screwdriver work,
    and now I start caulking, putting back the sheathing boards (I'm
    using pressure treated behind and to either side of the porch) and
    flashing the thing so the water can't get back behind the porch.
    (Even if I am using P.T. lumber, I see no reason to really stress
    the warranty.)
    
    Total cost, about $280, of which around $90 was in precautionary
    material I wound up not needing, and since I was in a hurry to get
    it done while we had this unaccustomed good weather, I did not shop
    around for the best wood prices, but just went to a place (Moore's
    in Ayer) where I knew I could get all the stuff at one sweep.  This
    is against a couple of quotes of $1,000 to 2,000 just based on
    description of the problem ("and it will probably be more once we
    actually see it") and ("I can fit you in next spring") from the
    only ones who even returned calls before I decided to DYI.
    
    					/Dave

    And, as always, the most interesting (read: troublesome) parts 
    involved not the foundation itself, but side bits.  Such as:
    
     o the Sawsall is neat.  It cuts through nails, bolts--and wires
       to the outside light.  Oops.  Fishing a new wire from the switch
       to the box in the basement and connecting it up again took 
       another couple hours.
    
     o the sheathing was 1x6.  Hm--pressure treated wood only comes
       5/4" widths, not 1".  Another 2-4 hours spent kerfing the
       boards to the correct width, then chipping out the sections and
       planing it more or less smooth.  All of you who are into 
       aerobic home renovation, take note:  I am sure the caloric
       expenditure for hewing PT wood with a hand rasp is _at least_
       500 per hour.
    
    Signed,
    		Loving Helpmate, Board Holder, Painter & Cheerleader

    i am in the process of having a two car garage with a room upstairs
    attached to my house. because it was never planned when it was built,
    i must have the foundation cut for a door opening into the garage
    from downstairs (the house is a split level). does anyone know of
    someone in the groton/nashua area that cuts concrete walls? 
    
    I also hear you can rent these machines from a rental place, but
    that they do not do as good of a job since the pros use some kind
    of a machine that uses water at the same time to get a smooth cut.
    Is there a limit to the width that the rental machines cut? my house
    foundation is about 10" thick.
    
    thanks
    john

    Sounds like EXACTLY what I am in process of doing. Nashua Coring
    gave me an estimate of 350.00 which is there min charge.
    
    If you find anything else, post it here. I too have a split
    with a newly attached garage, and need to cut a foundation
    door in.
    
    
    Mark

    I think there are some other notes about concrete cutting in this
    file someplace - anybody know the numbers?
    

    Check out note #145 in this file for more info on concrete cutting.
    Jim.
    

    thanks for all the advice. im going to have a professional cut it
    as i don't have the time to do it myself.
    
    john

I think your decision to have a professional cut it is an excellent
    one based on my experience... I had a pro (solberg Inc) come in
    with their equiptment the same time a neghbor started cutting his
    foundation with a rental saw. The pro was done in a couple of hours
    (set up time,cutting  and cleanup) my neighbors took several days(
    problem with the saw, dulled blades ect..) The cement on both was
    10 in. and about 6 years in age(hardness).
              
    As a suggeston only be prepared to dispose of th slabe of cement
    or ask the cutters to break it up???
    
    good luck
    canuck
    

Last nite it rained and this morning I once again had some puddles in my 
cellar.  I know the where the water is coming from and want to fix it 
once and for all.  It turns out that there is a very small leak where 
the waste pipe exits the foundation.  Since it's only a couple of feet 
below the surface, I plan to dig it up and seal it up where the pipe 
enters the wall.  It's PVC...

Has anyone done this before?  What did you use for a sealant?  I would 
suspect foundation tar might be the thing, but all opinions are welcome!

-mark

    Quick honey......Help me get the table saw up into the kitchen :^)
                                                                      
    I have the same problem but my leak is from one of those foundation
    
    pins!  I sealed the inside cellar door I just but up with a sealer
    
    made by Red Devil...it dries as hard as a rock!  I may give that
     
    a try.						J. Waters
    

    I have seen it done by the 'pros' and they did as you suggest, they
    dug up the dirt on the outside, around the area, but they then chipped
    away the cement (mortar) where the pipe enters the foundation. Then,
    using FASTPLUG (Quick drying cement) they filled it up and made
    it real nice. THEN TAR.
    
    Mark
    

    The leaks around the foundation pins should be sealed with Hydraulic
    cement.  Besides it working well, it will look a lot better on the
    inside than tar or roofing cement.
    

re: -1

On the subject of hydrolic cement, I have this one big crack from floor 
to ceiling that was sealed with the stuff on the inside.  It has since 
opened and it too leaks some.  However, I don't even want to think about
trying to dig down 8 feet to seal it.  I had been told by some people 
that you cannot successfully seal the inside and that you must go 
outside. 

Are you saying there's hope for a good seal doing it from the inside or 
is that really only for the holes from the pins?  I can see where one of 
these holes would be a lot less likely to open as opposed to a crack 
and that may be the secret.

-mark

    I don't think anything will be strong enough to pull together two
    slabs that are drifting apart for one reason or another.  If the
    ground under a floor settles and cracks the floor, hydraulic cement
    can fill the crack so it doesn't leak as long as the crack doesn't
    increase even more.
    With the pin holes, there's not much pressure making the
    hole bigger so hydraulic cement will work.  
    I think the major reason why those pin holes leak is that when they're
    broken off, they're often forced loose from the concrete.  Once
    any hole there is plugged with either tar or hydraulic concrete,
    I doubt if it would leak again from the same spot.
                                                      

    I've used GE Silicon for these types of leaks in the wall with good
    results. Unlike hard cements, it will flex as the space between
    the pipe and the wall or the pin and the wall expands and contracts
    with tempature changes. You may have to chip away some cement first
    to create a nice pocket. And be sure to clean the surfaces GOOD,
    especially the cement dust.
    
    Charly
    

    I had a crack in my foundation right behind some pre-cast front
    steps.  The crack ran all the way from the sill to the footing and
    it leaked pretty bad.  The previous owner chiselled out the crack
    on the inside and filled it with hydraulic cement (plug) which cracked.
    
    I called a foundation coating/waterproofing company in Manchester,
    NH and asked for advice.  Their first words were, "You can't fix
    it from the inside, you need to correct the problem on the POSITIVE
    side of the leak."  They proceeded to tell me how to do it myself.
    
    The method called for exposing the foundation (a real problem for
    me because of the front steps, but I did move them), and to chisel
    out a deep V along the crack.  Next, use a caulking product called
    PTV (I think that's the name) available at Corriveau-Routhier for
    about $10 a tube.  (You'll need to buy a special primer for the
    application below grade for about $15 a quart).  They were pretty
    specific about applying the caulk from the BOTTOM of the crack up
    to eliminate air pockets.  Then once the caulk is dry, you tar the
    whole thing and put an 18" wide piece of the thickest plastic sheeting
    you can find over the length of the crack (the sticky tar is like
    glue for this), then you tar over the plastic too.
    
    The result works great!  
    
    My biggest problem was moving the steps away from the house and
    putting them back without breaking them.  Thanks to a real good
    backhoe operator the whole job was successful.
    
    I sold that house in April and bought a brand new one and guess
    what....  this time the crack in the middle of the back of the house
    and there are no steps in front of it.  The builder guarentees the
    house for 10 years and is going to fix the problem in the spring.
    He's going to supply the backhoe to expose the foundation and I'll
    repair the crack myself.  I've got a rare builder, he's fixed
    everything that's been wrong AND he lives right across the street.
    
    
    If you want, I'll look at home for the name of the caulk.  Call
    me a 381-2767.
    
    BC
    

    I too have a crack in the foundation that runs all the way from the
    sill to the footing.  Now, this crack has only leaked a couple of
    times over the 3.5 years that we've had the house -- and then never
    more than a puddle's worth.  It happened once when it rained for
    forty days and forty nights (well, thats what it seemed like), and
    other time when I had a hose trickling for a week around some 
    thirsty shrubs.
    
    My question is:  I haven't worried about this much.  Should I?
    		     i.e. Do these things generally get worse?
    		     If so, is there any harm in waiting till it does
    		     get a little worse?
    
    				- Don 
    				(who doesn't want to see his 
    				 landscaping dug-up by a backhoe)

    I had the same type of crack in my house. From footing to sill and
    it leaked once in a blue moon. I think the crack is either a settling
    crack or an expansion crack ( it's in the middle of a 44 foot long
    straight wall). I've seen expansion joints put in long walls of
    that length or longer in other buildings.
    
    I chiseled a "V" groove about 1" deep on the inside and filled it with
    GE Silicon. I did the same on the outside from the sill to about
    one foot below the dirt, that's as deep as I felt like digging and
    it was only to seal it from wind-blown rain. Its hasn't leaked since
    and it been over a year now!
    
    What I created was an expansion joint. The two long walls can expand 
    and contract and the Silicon maintains the seal. Its important to use 
    a flexible caulking material.
    
    Charly
    

    Most of the foundation is fieldstone.  It leaks like a sieve and
    I can't think of any way to insulate it so that it's not ambient
    temperature +10 degrees in the winter.
    
    Whoever poured the floor had no idea what they were doing.  Gullies
    and ridges (6" difference) all over the place.  The cement is flaking
    and fills my house with dust.
    
    The furnace ducts clear my 6' head by about 1/2".
    
    Any suggestions on how to make it more livable?
    
    -joet

Fill it in? :-)

    You could always dig the basement floor lowwer after breaking the
    old floor out. I dug my crawl space out two summers ago.
    By no means is it easy work it took us 12 days,12 cases of beer
    and 47 long bed truck loads to get all of the dirt out.
    The dig added 800 sqft to the house for <500.00 total cost minus
    my time and back! All & all it would have been easier to have moved
    good luck!
    -j
    

  Here is a costly solution, but at least it is done right. Do the 
following:

      1. Have house movers lift the house off its old foundation;

      2. Hire an excavator to remove the old foundation;

      3. Pour a new foundation;

      4. Put in perimeter drains and insulate (at least this is DIY);

      5. Lower the house onto the new foundation;

      6. Pour a new floor over the old.

  Don't laugh, it is done more often than most realize. If you decide
to go this route, I can give you names for all the work. Just three
weeks ago, I had my house moved to a new location.

                         Patrick Leach
                         DTN 226-6260

As .2 said, my father-in-law dug his cellar a foot deeper and put a 
concrete facing on his all brick foundation.  It took him all summer, 
but after all, he's 76!

As to the leaky foundation, I dunno...

-mark

    
    Joe,
    	I insulated my basement ceiling and sills about two months ago
    and it has made quite a difference.  Insulating the ceiling kept
    the heat in the living space and lowered the temp of the basement
    by about 10 degrees.  When I insulated the sills it stopped lots
    of heat leaks and brought the basement temp back up.  I also caulked
    and foamed all the little gaps between the foundation and the sills.  With
    the left over caulking I filled all of the leaks in the joints of
    the forced hot air system.  I have a rotting leaky basement window
    that use to let in water and cold air.  I put a window bubble on
    the outside to keep out the water and stuffed a couple of batts
    of insulation over the window.  I'll fix it in the spring.
    	I am also over six feet tall and have bumps on my head from
    the duct work.  At the top of the stairs I have an old Red Sox batting
    helmet that I put on before I go down.  I get a laugh out of my
    wife when I put it on, but it works better then aspirin.
    	I also have some water problems and I've decided to install
    a sump pump in the spring.  Maybe we can get everyone together and
    get a volume discount :^).  I went to Grossman's Bargain center in
    Braintree and bought some cheap vinyl flooring for my cellar.  It
    looks better than flaking cement and will help keep the dust down.
    	If all else fails just don't go down in the cellar and forget
    it exists!
    					good luck,
    					=Ralph=

    Sounds like you are describing my house. What have I done - nothing -.
    I get water in the spring, you should see it right now. I had
    considered taking the floor up and digging it deeper but with the
    water problem its not worth it. The best that I did was to go around
    and stop up the air leaks in the stone foundation and insulate the
    celler cealing. My celler hight is just 6 feet, in some areas that
    drops to 5 feet due to a large cold air return, a low center support
    beam, and a soil pipe.
    
    dave

    Seems  there are a lot of those basements around.  My solution is
    insulate it and never go down there.
    
    Judie
    
    

	The thing you really want to be careful about is rot caused
	by moisture in the basement.  It wouldn't be much fun to fall
	through your first floor someday because it rotted out.

	If you can identify the source of the water it would be worthwhile
	figuring out how to stop it.

	Here is my basement situation right now.  I put in a 4' 8" crawl
	space type foundation when I built my place.  Just a dirt floor
	with plastic over it the first two years I lived there.  The first
	spring I discovered a spring coming up in the south-west corner
	of the basement.  I had a good 6 inches of water down there.  Yuk!

	That summer I went down (after it dried up...'bout August) and dug
	trenches and put in gravel, drain pipe and covered it back up.
	This took care of the actual water problem, but just a sheet of
	4 mil plactic with a couple inches of sand over it didn't help the
	humidity problem much.  Still real humid, so this past summer I
	put another 6 mil of plastic over the dirt and had a concrete
	floor poured.  This seems to have helped.  

	I'm still not too sure what I plan to do with the basement, but it
	at least is a more friendly place to go now that it's not just a
	sandy wet pit.  I'll probably make it into a root /wine cellar    
	and maybe get into a little home brewing and store beer down there.

	-gary

    

    My father had a problem with moisture in his crawl space and used
    a vent fan to help the air circulation it seemed to fix the problem.
    At least it got rid of the salamanders:-)
    -j
    

    re .8 - if you try the homebrewing, you might want to check out
    PICA::HOMEBREW.NOTE

re: < Note 671.10 by BEING::MCCULLEY "RSX Pro" >

Thanks for the tip.....I'll have to check it out.  (If I ever get caught
up on all my other notesfiles....)

    I'm thinking about putting on an addition but I'm not sure if that
    part of my land has ledge. Does anybody have any strong feelings
    as to who I should rely on to check this out for me? Do I call a
    Contractor, Landscaper, etc?
    
    If anyone has any reputable names of people in the Nashua area please
    let me know.
    
    Mike

    Talk to others that have built in your area recently or drilled
    a well.
    
    Check with the town engineering dept. they may have maps that indicate
    what the predominate sub-soil and beyond in composed of. 
    
    Check with the highway dept. they may know or have recorded what
    was there when water and/or sewer lines were put in.

    Look around your house and neigborhood... do you see outcroppings
    of ledge?
    
    Hire a someone with a backhoe to come and dig test holes where you
    plan to build. It may only cost 100 dollars and be the only definitive
    answer short of actually digging the hole itself.

    Charly

  Will your new addition need a full basement?  If the foundation is only
  going to be a frost wall (that is, if it only needs to go down four feet
  or so) then you can buy a 5-foot length of 1/4-inch steel rod and go
  prospecting for ledge.  Just pound the rod into the ground along the
  planned foundation.

  This method also works on "lost" septic tanks or drywells.

  JP

re:-1

Sounds reasonable, but naturally when you hit something it might be just a big
rock and you'll have to probe around to be sure.

If you're REAL serious about this project, I'd opt for the backhoe.  Although
it will make a hell of a mess, if you're planning on digging anyway...

Also, if you don't want a basement and do hit ledge, isn't it possible to
just sit your slab/walls directly on it?

-mark

  Re: .3

  It is possible to put the walls directly on ledge (not sure about a
  slab, tho).  You have to scribe the forms to fit the rock.  To anchor
  the wall, you drill some holes about 6" into the rock and pound in
  some 5/8 reinforcing bar.

  JP

    Help !  I need some advice...
  
         
       I recently bought a small (very small) 2 bedroom house,
    with a full basement & under-house one car garage.  The house
    is set on a cement block foundation.
    
       I am wondering what the potential for upward expansion may or
    may not be, as the house is set very close to the lot lines and
    I don't think we can go out much at all.  I have heard that with
    a block foundation that you are really limited structurally as 
    far as upward expansion.
    
    
       Anyone have ideas ?
    

    What does your local building inspector/board have to say ?  Will
    they allow that, with or without a variation to code ?

    Multi-story houses are routinely built on on 12" cement block
    foundations. If you have 12" block and it's in good shape, then
    you should have no problem with a second story addition. Of course
    your local building inspector has the last word.
    
    

    I know where you can get a good deal on a slightly used construction
    trailer located in Carlisle......
    
    
    
    
                                                        FIFE.

    A while back, there was a note on using forms for a concrete
    foundation, which I cannot find.  I believe it asked about
    purchasing the forms so that this could be a DIY project.  Well,
    if there is some interest, I can relate my experiences of last
    week.  I spent 3 days using these forms to install a foundation
    for a garage I am building.  I contracted a company to do the
    work.  They were very reasonable (and good) and since I was home
    on vacation, they showed me how to install the forms (everything
    from start to finish).

    Should I start typing ?


    Mark
    

I'm going to be needing to put in a foundation for my garage in the next couple 
of weeks, so I'd be VERY interested.  Specifically, did you rent the forms?  If 
so, where?  Did you buy or build them?  If so, would you consider becoming a 
rental agent yourself? :^)

Also, as an aside, has anyone ever used one of the Bobcat-sized backhoes?  I'm 
considering renting one to dig the hole for the foundation.

Paul

    please do and do not forget anything
    
    al
    

    One of the guys I work with has a brother who tried out a Bobcat
    last weekend for some septic digging.  If you are digging dirt with
    no boulders in there for fill, then the Bobcat is OK.  If there
    is clay, or big boulders, then the Bobcat sucks eggs:  Inability
    to dig into the clay, both in terms of digging ability and sheer
    weight behind it.  For the large boulders (and we had some real
    winners when we dug for our addition's foundation last year), it
    just doesn't have the lifting/pulling capability.
    -reed
    

>    For the large boulders (and we had some real
>    winners when we dug for our addition's foundation last year), it
>    just doesn't have the lifting/pulling capability.
 
    What size boulder's?  I rented a bobcat to backfill my foundation.
    I lifted boulder's about 3-4 feet in diameter.  Bigger ones (5'
    diameter), can be rolled, but not lifted.

    With boulder's 3-4 feet in diameter, you just have to be careful
    not to lift them any higher than you half to, or the back wheels
    will lift up.
    
    But I agree that unless you live on a beach, you can't excavate
    a foundation with a bobcat, with or without the backhoe attachment.
    
    
    

re: .1

I did not rent the forms, I dealt with a concrete forms company.  I did
consider making the forms myself but decided not to based mostly on the
the amount of time involved.  I figured a company could install them alot
faster than I could make and install them.

I also considered buying the forms, because as I mentioned in .0, there
was some interest by others.  I am sure that if I did buy them, I could
sell them to someone else (I really do not want to be in the rental
business).  However, I soon forgot about this because I would need a
LARGE truck to haul the forms.  They are 1 1/4" thick - the 2' x 5' panels
weigh 50 pounds.  My garage has 136 linear feet of foundation, so I would
need 272 feet of forms (about 13,600 pounds !)  The truck that came to
my house had enough forms to do over 400 feet of walls and the truck's
weight was 33,000 pounds !

I also hired a guy with a backhoe to did the hole for the walls.  After
watching him, I have to agree with .3, I do not think the backhoe attachment
would be sufficient.  You need a hole about 4' deep and 3' wide, which 
I think would take a long time with a bobcat.


Mark
    

First of all, panels come 5' and 8' high.  The common width is 24", but
you can get 20", 16", 12", 11", 10", 9", 8", 7", and 6" wide panels.  You
also need inside and outside corners, staging brackets and the metals
"ties" that hold the inside and outside walls together.

After the foundation hole was dug and the footings were poured, we marked
the corners of the garage.  Once we double checked that these points were
square, we drove masonry nails into the footings at each corner.  We then
snapped chalk lines (the outside edge of the walls).  Starting at a corner,
we set up a panel (outside wall) so that the inside edge was on the chalk
line.  Then set up the companion panel across from the first one and connected
them with 3 ties (5' panels have 3 ties and 8' panels have 5).  The ties
fit into notches in the panels.  Now put a panel next to the first outside
panel and using a hammer tap the "dog" into place.  The dog is attached to
the left edge of each panel via a rivet so it can spin.  You spin the dog
so that the two grooves lock into the tie and a pin on the right edge of
the adjacent panel.  Now setup the companion inside panel.  After each
panel is locked in place, check it for being plumb.  Now do this for the
rest of the wall.  When you get close to the corner, you have figure which
combination of panels will match your dimensions.  Also, corners use two
special items, an inside corner and an outside corner.  These also have
pins and dogs so you can tie the walls together even at corners.

Once all the walls are up, you install staging brackets to the inside of the
inside wall (again there are pins in place for this).  2x10's fit on these
at the right height so you have a nice platform to work from.  Now depending
on the height of the walls you need, you may not be filling the forms all the
way to the top.  If not, you need to use a transit to find the proper height.
If your footings were perfectly level, you would not have to do this.  I was
pouring 4'4" walls, so we marked one spot and worked our way around driving
a nail thru the inside panel so that is protruded into the space between
the panels.  We inserted a nail every 3 or 4 feet.  (Then later, when pouring
the concrete, we poured up to the nails.)  Next, we oiled the forms to permit
easy removal.  I am not sure what kind of oil it was, but it was real sweet
smelling.  We used a small pump and a sprayer with a long wand.

Now for the 'crete !  As the concrete went into the forms, using special
7" wide shovels, we made sure there were no pockets in the concrete.  You
just push the shovel down into the concrete and pull it up to make sure the
concrete is filling the wall.  After all the concrete was in, we floated the
top with a small float.  Now to make sure the walls are plumb wrt inside and
outside.  (We know the walls are plumb in the direction parallel to them
since we checked each panel as we set it up).  Every 4 or 6 feet, check the
walls for plumb and add a 2x4 brace on an angle to either push in on the
top of the outside form or push out on the top of the inside form.  We used
the same technique used when framing the walls.  We ran a string all around
the perimeter of the forms.  At each corner was a 3/4" thick block.  We then
checked for a consistent 3/4" space between the string and the panels.

By now, the concrete was firm enough to insert the anchor bolts.  I used
bolts but you can also use anchor straps.

Since most walls are 8 or 12 inches wide, the 7" shovels work great.  You
can even use them to drag the concrete along inside the wall.

I almost forgot, if you are pouring walls for a garage, you need to put
a drop in the wall for the garage door.  To do this, we put short pieces
of 2x8 inside the front wall to act like a dam.


I think that is everything; good luck,
Mark
    

    RE: .6
    
    Pouring foundations definitely sounds like a job that is better
    left to the pros.  Sounds like there is a lot of equipment and
    expertise needed.  Besides, who wants to get their new addition
    of to a crooked start?
    

And if you want it STRONG you need to bend/add lengths of #4 rebar!  I have a 
friend who decided that he could save money by building his own forms (for a 
garage), and then re-use the plywood as sheathing.  WRONG!  First, one of them 
started leaking concrete, and after the concrete was set and the forms pulled, 
the plywood was such a mess that it was a write off.  Get a pro to do it...

    re: .7
    
    Yes, it is ALOT of work, but if you had access to the equipment,
    I think it could be a DIY job.  I am glad I paid someone else to
    do the work (mostly because if there would have been a problem,
    they would be responsible).  However, I feel fortunate to have
    worked with them to get the experience.
    
    re: .8
    
    You really do not need the rebar, especially for a foundation wall
    that is back-filled on both sides.  And most likely the plywood
    stuck to the walls was because the forms were not oiled.
    
    
    In case anyone wants to know who I hired, the company is A-1 Forms
    and Tom Inman is the owner.  They are in Marlboro and like I said,
    they do very good work.  Their prices are also lower than the $16
    or $18 per foot that has been quoted elsewhere in this file.  Feel
    free to mention I recommended A-1, if you use them.  As usual, the
    standard disclaimer applys - I am in no way affiliated with A-1 Forms.
    Phone number is 485-7886.
    
    
    Mark
    

    Re .9
    
    I used A-1 on a big job and do not share the opinion of .9.  Send
    mail for details.

    Jim, Why don't you post your opinions here? One of the nice features
    of this notes file is to exchange information, both good and bad
    about various contractors. I for one would be very interested to
    hear what you have to say.
    
    Charly
    
    P.S. This reminds me, I must go post a update on a contractor that
    I found thru this file.

  Setting forms and pouring concrete is pretty labor-intensive but it can
  be done by a DIYer.  You'll need at least one expert on the job, though.

  If you do it yourself, the additional work/expense of using rebar is less
  than trivial.  Commercial contractors use rebar in everything they pour.
  You should, too, and especially for retaining walls and any type of footing.
  When pouring a footing, you should also "key" it to anchor the concrete wall 
  to be poured on top.  The following is a cross-section of the footing
  forms.
                                                                         
                                                                         
            /---2X4
   ________/________
   |     |___|     |                                                       
   |               |                                                       
   |               |                                                       
   |               |                                                       
   +---------------+                  
                                                                         
  The 2X4s are just tacked in place onto the strapping that holds the walls
  of the form together and runs the entire length of the footing forms.
  After the concrete sets up a bit, you take out the 2X4 and you have a
  nice key that locks the wall in place.  In fact, you could just scoop
  out a key with your hands while the concrete is still soft but this looks
  a bit more professional.

  Commercial contractors have a lot more clout than a homeowner with the
  concrete vendors.  If the concrete is too watery, a contractor will tell
  the truck driver to take it away.  A homeowner can say that too, but the
  chances are the guy won't come back...  The concrete vendor wants the
  concrete as watery as possible because stiff concrete means a lot more wear
  and tear on the truck.

  The stiffness or "slump" of concrete is measured by pouring some into a
  standard cone and overturning the cone on a flat surface.  The slump number
  is the distance that the concrete sags or slumps.  If the tip of the cone
  slumps two inches, it's "slump 2," and so forth, so the lower the number
  the stiffer the concrete.  Commercial contractors usually demand slump 4
  or stiffer.  Homeowners often demand slump 4 and get slump 6 or worse...

  When pouring a wall, the right way to get a nice, smooth-looking surface
  is to: 1) oil the forms before the pour and 2) use a vibrator to get
  all the bubbles out of the concrete.  Vibrators can be rented from Taylor
  and come in several sizes.  (The first time I saw one of these jaspers, I
  just blinked for about thirty seconds because it resembles nothing
  so much as a 1/2 horsepower dildo.)  You just drop the business end into
  the concrete every few feet and watch the bubbles and water come to the
  top.  Note that vibrating can be overdone -- too much can cause all the stone
  to settle to the bottom of the pour.

  The only other warning I can think of is for cold-weather pouring.  Some
  builders use calcium chloride to keep the concrete from freezing and to make
  it set up faster.  This is a bad idea because CaCl weakens the concrete.
  If you must pour in cold weather, you've got to get a big enough space
  heater to keep the concrete warm.

  JP

I looked in 1111.94 (wood) and couldn't find.  If the answer to this 
exists, please repoint me by mail and I will delete.
======================================================================

Our house has an attached deck, about 1/2 story above the ground.  Its 
'foundation' is made of wood.  (its actually rather clever, as it is 
finished to appears as if it is a concrete foundation - but it is 
really built from wood joists, with some sort of sheetrock surrounding 
the foundation - has a little hatch you can go through to get to the 
underside).

I'm told I should cover all exposed wood surfaces under the deck with 
wood preserver to lengthen the life of the deck.   Sounds good.

1) Will any wood preserver do?  (what do I look for, should I use
Cupernol (sp?)).

2) Is it as easy as taking a 3" brush and going to it?

				thanx
				/j

    Well, I finally did it. I cut through the foundation this past weekend.
    I started using a K-12 rescue saw with Diamond blade which seems
    to have worked fine at first but: Kicks up a lot of hazardous dust,
    hard to keep the HEAVY saw straight when sawing a vertical surface
    like a wall and it's expensive( 50.00 a day, $5/per .001 of the
    blade with a minimum of .005).
    I finished it up with a rotary impact hammer and a 1-inch carbide
    bit... Worked great! I would recommend to ALL that they explore
    this method first!
    
    Mark

I would like to put an 18" to 24" strip of crushed stone around the foundation
of my house to keep the rain from digging divots in the lawn as it falls off 
the roof.  Two of my neighbors had conflicting views on the method of 
installation.
                                                      
1) Dig down 2 inches or so, sloping away from the foundation, lay down a sheet
   of plastic, then cover with the crushed stone. Reason?  The rain will drip 
   into the stone, down to the plastic, and then run off away from the foundation.
                               
2) Dig down 8 inches and fill completely with stone, using no plastic.  Reason?
   As the rain is filtering through the 8" of stone, it will also seep its way
   into the rest of the lawn and away from the foundation.

Anyone have any thoughts on which method is better, or if there's a different
method altogether?

Thanks, 
- Chris

    RE. .0
    
    Doesn't your house have gutters?  
    
    If not, then no amount of gravel or plastic will really keep water
    from infiltrating your foundation if it's coming straight off the
    roof.
    
    If you do have gutters, then the problem is with them, not the ground
    covering.  They shouldn't allow rain to "fall off" the roof, as
    you say.  See the notes on gutters in this conference.
    
    -Brian

    I did some similar work at my house, but I sort of split the difference
    between the two methods you described.  I removed the loam and "grass"
    from the area, and refilled with crush to within an inch of the
    original grade.  Then I put down a mowing strip of brick to seperate
    the lawn from the stones I put on top of the crush.  The effect
    is a very need border and no muddy splash marks on the house.
    
    You're right to want to slope EVERYTHING away from the foundation.
    
    I do get some weed growth, but it's a quick job every month to pull
    up whatever is growing.
    
    
    BC
    

    Crush may be a local term.  It is crushed stone and sand.  I put
    blue pea-stone on top of the crush level with the existing grade
    and level with the mowing strip.  The mowing strip gives you a place
    to put the wheels of the mower and also prevents the pea-stone from
    being launched all over the lawn.
    
    BC
    

    
    	Re .-1
    
    	Whats a mowing strip ? It sounds interesting as I shy away from
    using rocks of any kind due to the lawn mowing near the edge.
    
    		-Steve-
    

    "Crushed Stone" is similar to pea-stone but is made mechanically rather
    than naturally. Pea-stone has soft rounded sides and crushed-stone has
    sharper and flater sides since it is made by crushing larger stones.
    Both are run thru a screening process to seperate them by size and are
    sold that way, ie. 1/4" 1/2" 3/4" ... etc. 
    
    Crushed stone is usually plain and only comes in the color of your
    local rocks. It is usually used for utility purposes, ie. drainage,
    leach fields etc. 
    
    Pea-Stone can be more decorative as you get into the various colors,
    browns, reds, blues, grays and is usually used on driveways, garden
    areas and other locations where they can be seen. Around here (Central
    Mass.) the pea usually costs more than the crushed stone. 

    Charly

    A mowing strip is simply a border between things like stones or
    bark mulch, or a walls that gives you some distance between the
    grass to be cut and that other thing.  (I'm doing a lot of hand
    waving that be included in a note.)
    
    The idea is that the strip is wide enough (like the width of a brick)
    to put the mower wheels on and low enough in relation to the grade
    that it gives you a nice clean edge.  
    
    There's a real good book on home landscaping put out my the "Reader's
    Digest" that talks about all sorts of techniques to minimize the
    time required for mowing and landscape maintenance.  Another technique
    is to use rounded corners on planting beds and the such so that
    you can mow in one continuous motion.
    
    BC
    
    

    
    	Re .-1
    	
    
    	Great but whats a mowing strip ?
    
    	Is it made out of plastic, concrete ....?? 
    
    	-Steve-
    

    	RE .7
    	
    	Re-read .6 and pay attention to the word BRICK. 
    	
    	Although .6 uses brick it can be any flat surface that keeps
    you from running your mower over your rock or bark mulch etc.
    The most common things to use are bricks and landscape timbers.
    
    				...Dave
    

I use flagstones for a moving strip between my lawn and (non-raised) veggie 
garden.

They're a good deal wider than what's described in .6, so the visual effect
is different.  But I don't have to aim my mower wheels as carefully. 

	Re .8    
        
    	You did not say brick was used, you used brick as an example of 
    width !!!!!

    I use 3.5" X 5.5" X 8 ft. pressure treated garden timbers set at
    ground level as mowing strips around my entire lawn. I angled all
    inside corners at 45 degrees or less. Outside corners are at any
    angle as it only takes a sec. to redirect your lawn mower. I used
    1 ft. lengths of 1/2 inch rod to stake down the timbers. I have
    absolutely no trimming to do, with this setup. It takes me 20 minutes
    to cut a 2500 sq. ft lawn, including emptying the catcher 3 times,
    and that is with an 18 inch wide lawnmower at a normal pace.
     
    Mowing strips should be at least 3 inches wide and can be made out
    of timbers, bricks, cobblestones, etc.. I don't recommend using
    bark mulch are small crushed stone, as they can kick up and scatter
    into the lawn. (that should read "bark mulch or small crushed stone")
    

    Any recommendations for sources of pea stone in Central Mass?
    Prices?

    Stow Sand and Gravel on Boroughs Rd in Boxborough. I can't remember
    the price last time I bought some but it was priced by the ton.
    Give them a call.
    
    Nick

I'm not sure of the correct term for these, but they are the steel rods used
to space the plywood forms when a foundation is poured.  I'll call them pins.

When my house was built, none of the pin holes were covered with cement.  Both
ends of each pin were knocked off so the pin is still inside the wall.  With
the rain we had this weekend, water has managed to seep into my cellar via
these pin holes.  The water gets in both the top and the bottom set of holes.
I have plugged up the inside of the top set of holes with hydraulic cement, 
but its expanding properties aren't doing much good because the cement is not 
'inside' the hole, it's just stuck to the surface of the inside wall.  Water 
still gets in because the holes on the outside of the foundation are not 
plugged.  I can dig up the 10" or so of soil around the foundation and seal up 
the top level of holes, but the bottom level of pins are still unprotected, 
and buried about 6' down.
                       
			OUTSIDE             INSIDE
                                 +-----+ --
       /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\|     |    about 14" below top of foundation
                                 |     |
                           PINS  <=====> -- 
                                 |     |          
              S                  |     |
               O                 |     |
                I                |     |
                 L               |     |
                                 |     |
                                 <=====> --                                     
                                 |     |    about 6" above bottom of foundation
                                 +-----+ --  
 
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can properly stop the water from
leaking into my cellar?  The hydraulic cement as a surface sealer doesn't
seem to do the trick.  

Thanks,
- Chris

    You probably already know this if you read the instructions on the
    hydraulic cement:
    
    When you use hydraulic cement you're supposed to chisel out an
    inverted "V" at the area you're patching.  That is, the point of
    the "V" is at the surface of the wall, and the hole gets bigger
    inside the wall.  Then you fill this hole with the cement.

    This is very difficult to do, if not impossible.  But it's also
    difficult to dig down to the bottom row of rods on the outside
    of your foundation.
    Either way, you're supposed to chisel out this V-shaped hole.
    
    How many of them leak?  I'd probably keep cementing over
    them on the inside.  Some of mine used to leak but eventually
    they seemed to plug themselves up, with tiny pebbles or something.
    
    

I can't honestly say whether the package of hydraulic cement mentioned the
"V" shaped notch.  I'll check again.

About 1/2 of the pins on a 24' foundation wall leak.  I've already applied
2 'coats' of cement to the leaky pins on the top row.  Whenever it rains,
the cement slowly gets darker and darker, indicating the water is coming in.
Then eventually the water finds its way between the hydraulic cement and the
original foundation wall and starts dripping down.  It's at this point that I
get the recurring nightmares about the builder...If only I had it to do over
again. (*^%*^@&#$!!)

Just as an aside, I would have thought that a simple thing like plugging up
the foundation pin holes would be "required" by building code.  It seems strange
that the builder would have left such a glaring invitation for a flooded
cellar.

>    Just as an aside, I would have thought that a simple thing like plugging up
>the foundation pin holes would be "required" by building code.  
    
    It is required, in Townsend, MA.  I don't know whether that's a
    state code or just my building inspectors own requirement.  
    

    If this house is 'new' the builder should be the one responsible.
    
    Anyway, the outside of the foundation should have had a coating
    of sealent over it this should have helped prevent this from occuring
    in the first place. Additional help is provided when polyethylene
    is also used to cover the foundation.   
    
    When I built our house I covered each of these form ties on the
    exterior side of the foundation first with cement, then with heavy 
    roofing tar, then covered the whole foundation with the regular tar 
    waterproofing, then with polyethylene, and finally with rigid foam 
    insulation. One reason for the overkill is that knew as soon as
    the ties rusted enough we would have the same little fountains in
    our basement.

    One way to seal them off with the the hydraulic cement, is first drive
    the form ties into the wall about two inches. Use a good sized punch
    or similar tool. Then with a one inch masonry bit in an 1/2 inch
    electric drill widen the holes to be about an inch in diameter and
    a maybe an inch or two deep. Now mix up the cement and force it 
    into the holes.
    
    Make sure you get most of the dust out of the holes first to insure
    good bonding.

    A star drill is hand hammer driven and will work very well if you
    don't have an electric drill large enough to fit the bit. I drilled
    two two inch deep holes using one in granite and it actually worked
    better than a carbide tipped drill bit.

    Another drainage problem. The builder also should have installed
    drains around the footings. That would relieve the pressure on the
    ouside of the foundation. The ouside SHOULD HAVE been sealed by
    the builder. That does not mean is was done.
    
    My basement leaked until I excavated the entire thing to put drains
    around the footings. Guess what? The builder sealed the outside
    of the foundation ... right down to the footing and stopped about
    2 inches above the footings! That's where it's needed most!
    
    Needless to say I re-sealed it, put the drains in and have no problems
    to speak of (A week of heavy rain can cause me some seeping but
    I plan to install a sump pump just for those cases.
    
    I think you need to do some digging and get it fixed at the source.
    
    /tb/
    

>   Another drainage problem. The builder also should have installed
>   drains around the footings. That would relieve the pressure on the
>   ouside of the foundation.

Supposedly there is a perforated drainage pipe running around the
perimeter of the house, connected with a "Y" connector under the
driveway, which then empties out into a culvert beside the driveway.
I was told that the drainage pipes would only be effective
during the spring thaws.  (The house is only 5 months old, so it
has yet to experience a real spring thaw.)  

We began to wonder about the drainage during the early summer, after
3 or 4 days of heavy rain, when NO water was draining out of the pipe 
into the culvert.  We thought the pipe may be clogged or something.
Our neighbor told us that the drain pipes would not help during 
rainstorms, as they were meant to help during the slow process of 
spring thaw.  Seems a might silly if you ask me.

- Chris

    The pins are refered to as tie rods. I worked in the basement
    waterproofing business for 3 years prior to joining DEC and have
    dealt with the problem of leaky tie rod pins on many occassion.This
    solution I am going to explain is the way I was taught and I can
    proudly say I never had to go back to do any additional repairs.
    I worked for B-dry systems;the leader in basement waterproofing.we
    would install drainage tile pitched down to a well and sump pump
    inside the footing along the foundation wall inside the basement.
    As the water table would rise the water would go into our system.
    I won't go into specifics but the system does work:all our work
    is guarenteed for the life of the house. When we came upon a house
    that  the tie rods leaked we would cover the walls with a hard plastic
    sheeting(similar to what is used in bathroom showers) and let the
    bottom of this plastic extend below the floor into the system. when
    the floor gets recemented the water that leaks in from these tie
    rods would drip down behind the plastic,below the floor and into
    the drainage system. This was done only in cases where the water
    was entering the basement from other areas as well as the tie rods.
    If you don't have a water problem other then the tie rods then I
    would suggest the following. rent a small hand held power hammer
    with a chisel bit from your local rental service(I know taylor rental
    has them). Chisel out the cement around the tie rod 2-3" on either
    side and about 1-2" deep. if tie rod sticks out past the surface
    of wall then these should be cut back with bolt cutters. wash the
    holes out with water and let dry.Then using hydrolic cement pack
    the holes up and smooth the cement out. this will work!!! good luck.
    If you have any questions about this send me mail and I will go
    into more detail with you. also if any one has a basement water
    problem and would like some assistance in determining the solution
    then send me mail and I will be of whatever help I can. Just think
    of all the nice things you can do with a dry basement.

    I have used GE Silicon to seal up the leaky tie rod pins from the
    inside with execellent results. I second the idea about cleaning up the
    hole, removing the dust, washing it out and then let it dry. 
    
    I like the silcon better than the hard drying patching cement because
    it stays flexible. The new concrete patching silcon is even better than
    the regular clear silcon. It appears to be more "liquid" so that it can
    soak into the cement pores and form a good bond. 

    Charly

    We recently bought a house with a fieldstone foundation that we
    would like to repoint before winter.  I would like your suggestions
    on what to use - a concrete mix, sand mix, etc.  Also, any
    other tips on doing this would be welcomed.
    
    Thanks,
    Sue
    

    re.8 I second the silicon. I used it to patch a crack in my foundation
    that was caused by settling which used to leak on every rain storm.
    Since caulking it i havent had any problems. The big advantage is
    you dont have to hammer and chisle.
    
    -j
    

    
    Well, as my personal note says, after almost two years of preparation
    the foundation is in. We have something concrete to look at :-)
    :-) (Sorry, couldn't resist)
    
    I've started to knock the pins off and fill with hydrolic cement.
    Thanks for the advice in an earlier note. The stuff sets up incredibly
    fast! I took the advice offered earlier and bought some of those rubber
    surgical gloves. I mix up a handful and apply using my fingers to
    push the cement into the pin holes. Works a lot better and faster
    than trying to use the trowel.
    
    							Mark
                                                            

    Speaking from limited experience, I would think that mortar
    mix (which is different from concrete mix and sand mix)
    would be appropriate.  (morter mix has hydrated lime, or you can
    get cement and add your own lime and sand).
    
    Rich
    
    disclaimer:
    Then again, for just repointing, maybe sand mix is better.  Like
    I said, limited experience..

Re .8

>    I like the silcon better than the hard drying patching cement because
>    it stays flexible. The new concrete patching silcon is even better than
>    the regular clear silcon. It appears to be more "liquid" so that it can
>    soak into the cement pores and form a good bond. 

I never even thought about silicon, and I never knew about the new concrete
patching silicon.  But I guess my main question is, can it be used as a surface
sealer or does it require a hole that it can expand into, like hydraulic cement
does?  .9 mentions that no hammer and chisel are required, but I'm skeptical
about silicon's ability to seal the hole if it's applied only on the surface.

- Chris

(I just read this after I bought a 10 lb. tub of hydraulic cement -- haven't
opened it yet though.  Silicon sounds a little easier to deal with, if it's
got similar bonding/sealing/filling properties.)

re: .-1

I've used silicone to try to seal some basement cracks that were leaking 
this past spring. Water was seeping up thru creaks where the city sewer 
was put in by the previous owner at an alarming rate, so in a panic, I 
used GE Silicone Seal II, forcing it into the leaking cracks with the 
pressure of the gun. It certainly slowed the leak down, but came no 
where close to stopping it. I was then able to get to a hardware store 
for hydraulic cement which finally plugged the leaks.

I now have to go over all the 'Rube Goldberg-patched' cracks and fix 
them correctly...

    If you are buying Hydrolic cement in 10lb cans from a store like
    grossmans you are buying it the expensive way. You should check
    out a Masonry supply place. You buy it in 25lb tubs at a price
    that is less than two 10lb cans at grossmans.  However, if
    your sure that one can will be enough.. then ok.
    
    That was what I found several years ago when I tackled a leaky 
    basement.
    

Sue,

It's probably too late but in the interest of creating reference 
material...

Morter mix is what you want.  It has the added stickiness to stick onto
vertical surfaces, which you need with irregular fieldstone.  Just mix it 
according to the directions, then add either more mix or water to get the 
desired consistency (very slight adjustments will do it).  I use a spring 
scale to measure as little as 5 lb at a time.  Describing the consistency 
is tough but if it's right it works and if it ain't...  If you gouge it 
with the trowel and it fills right back in, it's too thin; but if you tap 
the bucket and it don't, it's too thick.  Finally, if you're like me and 
waited too long, you can work above 40 degrees.  And if you're really 
determined you can use warm water and work between 32 and 40.  

You know anyone with a small cement mixer they'd like to part with?

Craig (with the fs foundation and scraped knuckles)

    My wife and I are making an offer on a house and wondered if anyone
    could put our minds at ease about a foundation issue.
    
    There's an addition on the back of the house - a 4-season porch/
    mudroom with cathedral ceiling. The addition is not built on a cement
    foundation. I don't quite know yet exactly how it's built. The rest
    of the house is in AAA condition and seems very structurally sound.
    
    What are the ramifications (if any) to an addition such as this?
    
    Thanks
    Mike

    I had a similar situation with my house. The sun porch was 
    built on 2x4 struts. Not only had it settled over the years but
    termites had started to invade the struts. What I did was to contract
    a mason to come in and put a relatively inexpensive cinder block
    foundation under the porch and remove the struts. You might
    want to consider a similar course of action.
    
    			Steve Taschereau

the house we bought has a '4-season' porch - built on a wood 
foundation, but designed with minimal ground/earth contact (only at 
the outside corners, and 2 spots in the middle.  At the home 
inspectors suggestion, I went under one day and 'painted' the whole 
foundation (but not the underside of the porch) with cupinol.  If you 
consider your clothes expendable, it really wan't very painful, and 
now I have some security that the porch is more protected from the 
elements, especially at the ground/wood junctions.

    I've found out that the structure is supported by 4x4 pressure-treated
    posts. I imagine if it is to truly last a long time that it might
    have to be reinforced with lolley columns at some point, but since
    this structure is only about 8 years old, what's its life expectancy
    before it needs major rework?
    
    Thanks
    Mike

     
     Life of the wood depends on the type of protection it has.I am
    building a house on a totaly wood foundation.The wood is not somthing
    you ca buy at a lumber yard.The product is under test by the US
    Forestry dept.It has been a bit over 40 years and the wood is as
    new as the day it went in.It is in all sorts of conditions and has
    NOT failed yet.
    
     				wayne

    I've seen ads for wood foundations, guaranteed for 40 years. How
    do you replace it, bearing in mind that a house should last for
    hundreds of years?

    What sort of a guarantee do you get with a concrete foundation.
    It seems like there have been several cracked walls in previous
    notes.

>    What sort of a guarantee do you get with a concrete foundation.
>    It seems like there have been several cracked walls in previous
>    notes.

A cracked foundation wall may let in some water, but it will still hold up a 
house.

A rotted foundation isn't much good for anything.

Paul

    
     The wood foundation can be fixed on the fly MUCH easer than concrete
    one.The wood has not seen ANY damage to the test pieces in 40+ years.
    The treatment in the wood going into these foundations is 2x the
    amount.
    
     Due to the type of house I am building the foundation has to be
    exactly right.Not that easy with concrete.Not to easy to fix a slight
    measurment mistake.
    
     It can be put up in all weather types (read that winter time).Not
    that easy with concrete.Concrete also need a footing or should have
    one. This makes great dam to collect water.If the drainage is done
    right there should be no problem.Its tough to find somone to pour
    a foundation and garanity (sp?) a dry basement.I will get that
    with the wood one.
    
     	Its not a new idea,just slow getting accepted.It is also a well
    proven idea.
    
     Excuse the spelling but its been a looooog day and I am to tired
    to look up my spelling errors...
    
    
    				wayne

    I would like to know the pros and cons of using a poured foundation
    verus a block foundation. Both foundations would be on a poured
    footings. This is for a 24 x 26 garage. The reason I ask is that
    a poured foundation is $300.00 more than a block one.
    
    Thanks Dick
    

    I'm sure a lot of this is personal opinion, but personally I 
    will always go with poured concrete.  I don't think much of
    concrete block; I don't like the looks of it, and there is
    no way that it is as durable.  Having said that, in your case 
    it would probably not matter at all which you used, except for
    aesthetics and personal bias.  Assuming you've got good footings
    below the frost line, either kind of wall will be there long
    after the garage falls down.  I assume the garage is going to 
    be on more or less level ground so the foundation walls are not 
    going to be acting as any kind of retaining walls (as they would 
    in a basement, for example).  If the walls are going to be acting
    as retaining walls, the poured wall would of course be stronger,
    but in fact people build contrete block retaining walls all the
    time and they work fine.  Probably only about 2 rows of block will 
    be above ground, so it won't even show much.
    I'm a bit surprised that poured concrete is more; I'd heard that
    below about 5' high, poured concrete was cheaper than block, that
    block became cheaper only when you had to begin lifting the concrete
    to pour it.  I may be misinformed on that one though.  Have you
    gotten another estimate? It may be that your contractor is a
    cement-block man and would have to subcontract the wall if it were
    poured, hence the markup.  

I priced out a 24X26 foundation for a garage, blocked, with my own labor
was about $600, a poured one is about $1300.  

Brad.

    
    
      rep -1
    
      Do your prices include the digging thats required??

    It's always tough to put a price on your own labor.  If you have
    the time, skill, and patience, then DIY.  I built a garage 3 years
    ago and have a poured foundation.  My neighbor also built a garage
    2 years ago and he had footings poured, and did the block foundation
    himself. 
    
    Myself, I'd rather be playing softball!
    
    I once bought a grapple-load of wood to cut and split.  Never again!
    
    	Ted

	No, I was just quoting the various foundation 'costs'.
Backhoes in my area fetch about $50 an hour, so figure about 4 hours
to dig it.  I am inclined to agree with the previous reply, the 
600 or 700 dollar difference isn't enough to justify a summers
worth of block laying.  The chimney on the other hand was a different
story.

Brad.

    I laid my own block when I built my garage 3 years ago.  My foundation
    guy - the one with the forms - back out at the last minute.
    
    My neighbor came over and told me his story when he built his garage.
    Said it took him one summer to lay the block and one to build the
    garge.  Seems I remember buying around 900 block.  At 30 blocks
    a night, after work, (that's a lot of blocks after you've already
    worked all day),  That's 30 nights.  Estimate 2 months.
    
    I wound up 'dry stacking' the block and then applying a structural
    skin coat.  There are 2 types foundation coat and another I forget
    the name of.  One is waterproof, the other is a little more
    aesthetically pleasing.  It's cement and fiberglass fibers 3/4"
    long.  The fibers overlap enough to give it strength.
    
    You mortar the first course to the footing and stack the rest using
    plastic shims to keep it level where necessary.  I filled every
    5 or so vertical columns with cement and rebar just for kicks. 
    They recomend this in the corners if I remember.  The top course
    you use a bonding beam block that once filled with cement gives
    a continuous piece of concrete along the top.
    
    It took about 2 weeks to stack and fill and skim coat.  You apply
    a skim coat of about 1/8" thick on both sides just like applying
    plaster or joint compound.  It's a LOT heavier than plaster though.
    Price worked out to be the same as if I'd poured concrete in forms.
    This is cement price only.  I traded my time for what the forms
    guy would have charged.
    
    It was a lot of work and I would have preferred to have it poured.
    At the time I would have had to wait 2 months for someone to get
    me in their queue.  I wanted to do it then.  Not that I have any
    problems with the foundation.  It's stood up fine and if I didn't
    tell you, you would not be able to tell it had not been poured.

This looks like a reasonable place to ask...

I've got a piece of rotted sill that needs to be fixed.  The two options 
we have are (1) jacking the house and replacing with a new beam or (2) 
reconstructing the old beam using the new epoxy materials made for that 
sort of thing.

I'm leaning toward the reconstruction method, since it means we wouldn't 
have to jack the house and possibly crack the walls in the section that 
we just renovated.  Reconstruction of the beam occurs in two parts.
First, a thin penetrating epoxy "consolodant" ("Wood-epox" is the
brand-name) is forced into the wood that sinks in and builds up the
fibers that remain, filling any voids or insect damage.  Then an epoxy
putty is used to rebuild the parts of the beam that were destroyed.  The
result is supposed to be as strong or stronger than the original sill,
and as a side-benefit is now impervious to water and/or bugs. 

Has anyone out there had this done?  The literature provided to our 
contractor from the company that makes the stuff makes it look real 
good; it has the usual glowing reports from people who restore old 
houses for a living, and a copy of an article from Mechanix Illustrated 
praising the stuff.  OK, I expect that from sales lit -- I have this 
file to give me the dark side...
					anyone?
					>>>==>PStJTT

    What kind of construction is the house?  Post and beam, or modern
    2xN framing?  If it's modern, with a 2x4 or 2x6 sill or whatever,
    it is no big deal to jack it up and replace the sill, assuming you
    have a basement and can get under that area.  I just had part of
    a foundation replaced, and I was amazed at how easily they did it.
    
    Assuming it's modern stick-built:
    If it's not a load-bearing wall (the ends of the floor joists don't 
    rest on the sill) you don't have to do anything except take out
    the old sill and put in the new one.
    If it's a load-bearing wall, you can put a large timber (say about
    a 6x8) across the bottom of the floor joists about 2' in from the
    foundation wall and jack at several spots along that to take the
    load off the sill.  The ends of the floor joists go under the sole
    plate of the wall above, and will support it just fine.
    Notice that you don't have to actually LIFT anything to speak of; 
    the idea is to just take the load off the sill.  Just enough so you 
    know the sill isn't carrying any weight, but no more.
    I'm not sure how you'd replace a sill in post and beam construction,
    but for somebody who knows what they're doing it would probably
    not be a big deal.  I would tend to go for replacement, rather than
    the epoxy patch route, because I'd worry that the epoxy patch would
    not keep the sill from rotting further.  As far as I know, the only
    sure way to keep rot from spreading is to remove it completely.
    Sort of like rust on a car; painting over it doesn't help for long.

Hmmm...I suppose I should have mentioned how the house was built.  The
house is an 1880-ish Victorian farmhouse with a baloon frame.  The sills
are 8x10 inch (real measure) oak beams.  We are fortunate in that during
the renovation we took a beam out of one of the walls that is long
enough to use for a patch if we go that route.  I think the baloon frame 
means that there is no weight carried by the walls, so it should be 
the simpler of the cases you mention.  

I'm not sure if the joists rest on top of the beam or if they are set in
notches.  If the latter, it will be a real drag to have to cut the
notches, but as Bob Villa used to say before he went big time, "That's
the sort of thing you can do yourself and save money." 

						>>>==>PStJTT

    Nope, you don't have the simple case.  The simple case is the
    platform frame, where the wall 2x4s sit on a sole plate which
    sits on a subfloor which sits on the floor joists which extend
    under the wall area.
    The balloon frame may not be a problem either, but I'm not sure
    just how yours might have been done.  I think there were several
    variants of the balloon frame (probably dozens or hundreds,
    according to the whim of the particular carpenter) and it all
    depends on how the walls are related to the floor joists.  Basically,
    you want to be sure that if you lift the floor joists you're going
    to lift the wall too, and not just push the floor up.

        I am trying to validate an estimate I was just given for the
        construction time of a 2600 sq foot colonial house.  In
        particular I was questioning whether a poured concrete
        foundation can be built upon two weeks after the start of the
        excavation for the cellar hole.  Does the concrete require
        any curing period before the framing can begin?

        Thanks,
        Bob

I wish I had a number for you but I don't.  I was shocked when the forms people
removed the forms the day after pouring the foudation.  The answer was that the
stuff sets a lot quicker than you think.  I had started putting on my decking 
about a week after the forms came down.  The concrete people told me they've
seen builders start the day the forms were removed.

My guess would be 2 weeks would be enough time, but if I were you I'd get
something more official than me.  8-)

-mark

    For my addition they poured the concrete one day.  Stripped the
    forms the next morning and started building the day after that.
    I assume they could have started building the same day the forms
    were stripped, if they wanted to.
    Two weeks should be enough time.
    

A carpenter replaced my rotted sill beam by splicing modern sill plate
and joist construction into the structure. This is a description of 
what you'd find if you look at it, not a chronology. (I had already
applied 4 jack posts to the ~10 foot area before he arrived.)

He pulled out all of the old beam, removed fieldstone to lower the top
of the foundation to below the bottom line of the existing joists,
leveled the top of the remaining fieldstone with concrete topped by a
conventional sillplate. He spiked pieces of 2 X 8 (or 10, can't
remember) planking from about 4 feet back right along each of the
joists and across the sill plate. Where the studs came down (generally
on or next to the joists, wouldn't have mattered with a beam), he
added short pieces of planking spiked to the joists to support them.
He closed the outside with the usual vertical piece whose name I've
forgotten. 

The point is that the work involved in notching a new sill for 
the old joists is pointless. The beam is expensive, hard to handle, 
and when you look at the small portion of notched-in joist that gets
to support the weight, the modern construction technique looks far
stronger. To my mind, definitely a case of a newer technology giving
better performance at lower cost. 

Glenn

    The usual test for concrete in special jobs, eg. high strength 
requirements, is to test the concrete after 28 or 30 days, I don't remember 
which. At that time it has something like 98% of it's full strengh and is 
fully cured. At 2 weeks, it should have probably 90-95% of its full strengh 
and be more than usable. The 30 day wait is for jobs involving "public 
safety" type construction, high rise construction, and such.

    Remember too, even if you start building on the stuff 2 days after 
pouring, you will not have a whole lot of weight on it until a few weeks 
later unless the contractor throws a dozen carpenters or a pre-fab house 
onto the foundation! You get most of your weight with the addition of the 
roof, drywall, and other finishing materials. 

    Two weeks should be fine.

    		Vic    

    
    
    In a past life I built concrete foundations for a living.
    
    We would build forms in the morning , pour in the afternoon, strip
    forms the next working day, (Usually the next morning) and the
    framing would normally start within a week. ON ROUTINE HOUSE SIZES
    This is like your basic single family max 2 floors and attic type
    house. As stated previously it takes a week of work before you get
    to the really heavy stuff and by that time you foundation has cured
    to the point there should be no problems.
    
    We put in the foundation for one of the dorms at URI in Rhode Island
    and on that job we took three days to set the forms, nealry four
    hours of truck after truck of hot mix, hours of shaking and smoothing
    the slab floor, left the forms on for two days, and the construction
    didn't start for almost three weeks. But that like I said was a
    dorm tower and used steel frames insetead of wood etc. 

    First thing, even *BAD* concrete can support over a ton per square
    inch, so with a house foundation there is no need to worry about
    load capacity.  Given that, what determines the strength of concrete.
    Two major things:
    
    1. The amount of water in the mix.  The stiffer the mix (the less
       water), the stronger the concrete, given that you have enough
       water to fully hydrate the cement.  A stiff mix is about 5 gallons
       of water to a sack of cement.  6 gallons gives a more workable
       concrete.  Strength begins to fall off if you get up to 7 or
       8 gallons.  In general, if the concrete will stand up in a pile
       pretty well by itself it's probably a good mix.  If it's so runny
       that it flows out level, it's too wet.
    2. The rate of drying.  Concrete hardens by chemical reaction with
       the water, not by drying out.  Therefore, the water has to stay
       around long enough for the chemical reaction to occur fully.
       If the concrete dries out too fast, the concrete won't be as
       strong.  For maximum strength, concrete ought to cure in a moist
       atmosphere for up to 28 days.  Actually, concrete keeps getting
       stronger pretty much "forever", but as mentioned in the previous
       reply, after 28 days it's at full strength for all practical
       purposes.  And hardly anybody does 28-day moist cures, except
       (as noted) for safety-critical jobs.  If you keep the concrete
       moist for 2 weeks it's almost as good, and for most jobs 1 week
       is plenty.  And for house foundations hardly anybody even does
       that anymore.  Nowadays they use "high early strength" concrete
       and the concept of cure time has pretty much gone away for house
       foundations.
    
    So, what can (or should) you do.  You don't *need* to do anything,
    really; your foundation will be perfectly adequate pretty much no
    matter how they do it.  And, if it sits for two weeks it will be
    hard.  But, if you've got that two weeks, you can do a few
    things to make the concrete a little better.  For one thing, leave
    the forms on for at least three days.  Cover the top of the forms
    so the top of the wall doesn't dry out.  Spray with water if necessary.
    The forms are a little harder to get off if they stay on for an
    extended time though, and the forms company probably
    won't want to have their forms tied up any longer than they can
    help it, so they may take the forms off in 1 day.  If they do, no
    problem; get some 4- or 6-mil plastic and put over the concrete,
    pull it tight and seal it up as well as you can, and try to get
    some kind of shade over it to keep the sun off.  You want to maintain
    a good moist atmosphere.  Let it sit there.  In general, the idea
    is to have the concrete stay moist and cool for as long as possible.
    
    But if you can't do any of this, don't worry about it.  

Pay closer attention to Bob's question in .13, folks.  He's not talking 
about a two-week cure time at all:

.13>	    In
.13>        particular I was questioning whether a poured concrete
.13>        foundation can be built upon two weeks after the start of the
.13>        excavation for the cellar hole.  Does the concrete require
.13>        any curing period before the framing can begin?


It sounds as though the steps that need to occur over two weeks are as
follows, with annotations based on my limited experience: 

1. Excavate:  a day or two, more only if complex
2. Set up forms:  half a day to a day
3. Pour concrete:  an hour or two
4. Let concrete set in forms:  overnight
5. Remove forms:  half day
6. Additional cure time, if any:  sounds as though you don't really need any, 
    and that any you might get is better than none
7. Backfill:  half a day to a day

None of these steps is inherently weather-dependent, although they'd all be
pretty miserable in a downpour.  So I think your chief schedule risk is 
having the contractors show up on schedule.  There don't seem to be any 
technological or meteorological reasons to schedule more than two weeks for 
these steps.


From sad experience:  you might do yourself a great favor to check the
forms setup and the pour level, and to get any discrepancies resolved
immediately.  You can't pour more concrete on top once the first batch has
set... 

    I need to replace my basement door.  I'd like to install a new steel
    door -- the 32" width will fit very nicely.  I've installed doors
    before, but never in an uneven opening of a fieldstone foundation. 
                                         
    I don't want to use the same installation technique as the current
    door -- it is secured on the sides only to mortar that was poured
    into the uneven space between the foundation and the door frame.
    The mortar has separated from the foundation, and is in several
    pieces. Thus, the door frame now "floats."
                                
    What I think may be a good idea is to secure the frame of the new
    steel door directly to the foundation.  To do this, I would need
    to drill into stones on both sides of the doorway, and screw lag
    bolts through the frame into these.  I thought that three holes
    on each side would be sufficient to secure the door. I have a sill
    above the door for securing the top. 
                                                                   
    I need some feedback on this idea.  Is there another way of securing
    the door frame to the foundation?  Any tips to offer on installation? 
                                                                   
    How do I drill the holes in the stone?  I've heard that masonry
    bits won't do stone.  Are there special bits that will do stone?
    I worry a little about using impact jackhammer-type drills, as I
    don't want to loosen the stones from the foundation. 
                                
    Thanks for any advice,
    Joe
    
    

    
    	I have the same project comming up soon and I have been thinking
    about it a lot.  I don't think there is anything on the market that
    will drill into stone, so u have to drill in the concrete and use
    lag bolts/screws.  The best way is to chip away all the old concrete
    and put up a form and poor new concrete therefore giving u a place
    to put your mounting hardware.  
    	Even better is to leave up the 2x4 form and use that to secure
    the new door.  
    
    	Good luck
    
    	john

    I think I'd clean out all the old mortar and whatever, and wash
    down the rocks so they're clean.  Build a form and pour a rectangular
    concrete rough opening, which will be a trick because building a
    tight form around random rocks is hard, and it's hard to get the
    concrete to flow well around the rocks too.  
    If you've got lots of patience, you can drill rock with a star drill
    and a 2-pound hammer.  Basically, a star drill is sort of like a
    cold chisel with an "X" point on it.  You whack it, rotate it about
    1/8 turn, and whack it again.  Repeat for about an hour per hole.
    
    If there is enough space, you might consider squaring up the opening
    by laying up a brick wall on each side, behind which you could 
    fill in with concrete as you went.

    
    	A good carbide drill bit, in a jack-hammer type drill, will
    go through the rock no problem.  The percussion type drills are
    not so tough to disturb the wall itself, so don't worry about
    it coming down unless it's in bad shape already.

	I discovered this file a few days ago and have been reading all the
notes on LEAD PAINT REMOVAL and ASBESTOS REMOVAL.  I feel like a walking
dead man - I wonder if I'll die of lead poisening before I get the asbestosis...

	But onto a cheerier subject, and the topic of this note.

	I have an 80ish year 2-story-with attic frame old house in Methuen, Ma. 
It has a fieldstone foundation that is CRACKING in the S.E. corner.  Before my
housemate quick-and-dirty repointed the outside wall, you could see light 
through the crack and of course feel lotsa cold air leaking.  The crack
is about a pinky finger wide, at the thickest.  There are several cracks, but
the widest one is about 2 feet from the corner, just by a window.

	I also have cracking floor jousts right in that corner of the house,
and sagging floors in the 1st and 2nd floor living rooms above.  Unfortuataly,
I have a lot of heavy stereo and video equipment in my 2nd floor living room
(BIG speakers and TV, several feet of records and reel to reel tapes, etc.).
Luckily my housemate has almost nothing in his living room.

	We are thinking of jacking up the cracking floor joist, but it seems
to us that the foundation in that corner has to be rebuilt.  My questions are:
	
1) how "bad" is "bad" ?  How nasty is this?

2) Causes ?  The basement is dry - but in that corner of that house (actually, 
   several corners) the (old) wood shingles have pulled back, I'm sure that 
   water can get into the sheathing.  Can water the percolate down to the 
   fieldstones, weakening the cement or mortar or whatever sticks them 
   together?  This problem corner (the southeast side) is right by the 
   driveway, there is concrete with a good downward slope right up to the 
   foundation.  I don't think much water was getting in there, but I sealed
   around the whole house with tar anyway (it needed it).
   Or would the foundation, and floor jousts, just crack from age?  Would
   extra (unforseen in the original design of the house) weight up in the
   attic aggrevate the situation?  The attic was finished with 3 bedrooms, 
   would the extra building material add a lot of weight?  Too many layers
   of shingles on the roof?

3) Fixing it.   If it does need to be rebuild (the corner jacked up and the
   fieldstones fixed somehow)  about how much does this cost?

	I guess this note is kinda long but I wanted to describe the situation.
I've read all the notes on jacking.  Thanks in advance for any advice....

	Josh Belkin

    
    It takes surprisingly little to hold up a house.  You can probably
    go for years the way you are, based on your description.  I don't
    think you need to panic about it.  A few warps and sags add 
    "character". :-)    But if you're worried you might want to
    get a few people to come look at it and give estimates.  It may
    help you to sort out what you need to do if you can talk to a few
    people about it.  In general, cracks are no big deal. You need to 
    get concerned when the wall starts bulging inward.

re < Note 1557.4 by MTWAIN::WELLCOME "Steve Wellcome (Maynard)" >
>    go for years the way you are, based on your description.  I don't

	Well, thats a relief.  I've wanted to try the trick of epoxying
a glass microscope slide across the crack, and seeing if it breaks in a
few days/weeks/months, but havent gotten 'round tuit.

	One possible aggravating factor is that there will be some construction
going on a 1/2 mile up the street, and there will be a lot of heavy 
equipment traffic.   That part of the house is about 15 feet from the edge of
the road.  I could do without the "bad vibes"....

	Will the interior fieldstone walls crumble less slowly if I were
to keep the basement dry with a dehumidifier?  Or would that make it worse?

	Is there any way of patching up the wall to make it a more-or-less
planar surface again (the way it was when first built) ?  In a few places,
the mortar between the stones has eroded away 2 or 3 inches (particularly in one
spot near the floor that seems damper than the rest).   This spot is nearest to
where the original furnace used to be.  I imagine it was a large clunker of an
oil furnace (the old oil tank is still down there).  Would have radiated heat
from the old furnace accelerated the deterioration ?

	thanks for the help!

			Josh Belkin

    I don't think interior dampness or lack thereof will make much 
    difference.  On the other hand, gutters or properly sloping
    ground to keep water from building up on the outside should help.
    

There's an article in the current issue of Fine Homebuilding on repairing 
fieldstone foundations.

Paul

Here's a new foundation question.  I'm building a set of brick front steps, and 
since part of it will be attached to the house, I wanted to make sure that it 
wouldn't move.  So I dug down to frost line, and I was going to put in a 
concrete footing, lay up cinder block around the perimeter up to the surface, 
fill the interior with crushed stone, and then pour concrete over the top.  I 
decided that I didn't need a wall in the back against the house, since the 
stone would support it well enough.  And then I got to thinking - if I don't 
need the block there, why do I need it at all?  Why can't I simply fill the 
hole up to the surface with stone, and the pour the concrete over the top?  I'm 
not afraid of it heaving, since any water will drain right out, and the soil is 
well down below frost line.

Can anyone think of a reason why this won't work?  It certainly is a lot easier 
to throw stone in a hole than it is to pour footings and build up a block wall.

Paul

    Don't you have to worry about a cumulative effect??  You say the
    water will drain right out - the first few times.  If you get periods
    of thawing and freezing you'd get an ice dam I think.  The slush
    prevents draining and then that freezes.  You get more rain and
    the temp isn't quite warm enough to melt a foot below ground and
    you get a pocket of water that freezes that night.
    
    I suspect that it's one of those things that's just fine for 8 years
    and then you get just the right climatic series of events over a
    winter and the steps are now an inch and a half higher in one corner.
    
    Just guessing ...

    I agree with .1, another advantage of a good solid block (use concrete
    block instead of cinder)is its stability. a good footing and foundation
    below you steps will reduce any kind of settling whether it be caused
    by frost or compaction after the fact. I assume your going to put
    a roof or something over these steps which will have its support
    poles resting on top of the steps, Right? Otherwise you could let
    the whole structure free float on top of the stone, with no need
    for a footing/foundation below the frost line. One other suggestion
    might be to use sono tubes instead of a block foundation. It's alot
    quicker and easier!
    

    I have been wondering about this also. I want to build some front
    steps to my house with some wrought iron railings. There is nothing
    else that will be attached to the stairs and they will be partially
    covered by the overhang of the house. It's a split entry. 
    Do I need to dig down below the frost line and put footings in or
    can I just set it right there on the surface?

      I  read  something  somewhere a few years back about curshed stone
      foundations.  The point being made was that the do fine, providing
      that  they are properly compacted nad very well drained.  The only
      problems occur if they are wet and then freze. My reactionwas "Now
      how  in the hell do I keep the foudnation dry when it rains?"  And
      it  often  rains  just  before  the  front  blow  thourg  and  the
      temperature drops.  It doesn't take great powers of observation to
      see that this has NOT become a popular constsruction technique.

      I suggest that if you don't put a full foundation under your steps
      you should not fasten it to your  house/foundation.   Then  if  it
      settles a bit you can just ignor it or jack it up and re-set it.

    You really don't want to attach any sort of concrete work to your
    foundation.  The reason being that the different masses are going
    to expand and contract at different rates.  So therefore no matter
    how deep you dig you will get heaving and/or cracking at the joints.
    
    My best idea for your project would be to set a bed of crushed stone
    6 to 8 inches thick the width and lenght of your walk.  Then layer
    screed (not screen)across the stone and support it so that when
    the concrete if poured you have a metal net weaved into your walk.
    
    Screed is basically the same as screen but on a much heavier scale.
    
    One very important item is that you shouldn't have a block of concrete
    greater than 64 sq. ft. (8 x 8).
    
    Once you have your base set you can build or pour a set of stairs
    to your needs and liking.

    What determine the use of a poured foundation or sona tubes? I know
    some people who have built a large screened porch and used a cement
    foundation and someone who added a 14' x 16' family room and used
    sona tubes. My wife and I are thinking of a possible family room
    some day (some day!!!) and wonder which way to go. Both of the
    type supporting foundations above were recommended by different
    contractors. Is it by choice or reason?
                                                  thanks
                                                  Ed
    

There are several other notes that touch on this subject - see note 1111.30.  
But none that specifically address the question of why one over the other.

So - I would use a foundation if I were planning on insulating the floor.  For 
an addition, I'd rather not have the winter winds howling around down there, 
the room will stay warmer with a foundation.  Plus I should have less little 
critters coming in to get out of the weather.

For a porch or deck that's not going to be heated or closed in, I'd use 
sonotubes.  The whole thing's outside anyway, all I want to do is hold it up 
off the ground, and it's cheaper.

Paul

    If anybody has comparative costs, please post here.
    
    I am particularly interested in New England, e.g.
    what is the probability of digging four "post holes" @the 4 corners
    of a pre-specified rectangle in the rocky soil of New England without
    resorting to major equipment?

    RE .2
    	It cost me $75 to rent a post hole digger from U haul and 
    lunch and beer for two friends to dig 4  4' deep 10" diameter 
    holes for sonatubes. Total time was about 4 miserable hours. 
    The tubes were about $20. I paid $50 for 1/2 yard of premixed
    cement.
    	A one man digger takes two people or one giant to run, I don't
    even want to think about the two man digger.   
	
    					=Ralph=

    I have a question about repairing my 75+ yr old poured concrete
    foundation.
    
    On the south side of the house there are several spots where the
    paint has peeled of and some of the concrete underneath has begun
    to chip away. The larger areas are about 12" in diameter and are
    chipped or flaked out 1/2 to 1" in places. The exposed concrete
    appears to be soft and crumbly in these areas as well. It also is
    holding some moisture due to the fact that it gets repeatedly splashed
    during hard rains from nearby steps. In fact, there are a couple
    of places where moss is growing.
    
    
    Is there something that I should use to fix those areas? Also, is
    there a better paint to put on the foundation? I suspect that previous
    owners used regular latex in the past. There are several layers
    in places.
                                    
    Or, maybe there is a coating I should consider putting on the whole
    thing that would look nice and hold up better? It might be tough
    to put this on over old paint though...
    
    I will take all suggestions,
    
    JC

Technical:
	The load bearing capacity of the soil will determine if you would 
	have to use a poured foundation.  The load bearing capacity is 
	measured in pounds(or tons)/sq-ft of footing.  

Aesthetical:
	For a year round living space you do not want insulation hanging 
	down or joists circumventing the insulation.  On the other hand,
	if you have a sloped yard the poured foundation would stickout to 
	high above ground. 

Legal:
	The local codes or building inspector may have a preference.

Brian

    As far a patching the concrete that has chipped away and crumbling,
    use a mortar chisel and remove all the soft and crumbly stuff. 
    If you don't remove all the loose stuff anything you apply will
    fall off within weeks.  After all the loose concrete is removed
    use premixed sand mix (sakrete, quikcrete) and fill the voids.
    
    As far as a paint or finish is concerned there is a special paint
    on the market made for concrete which will also help to waterproof
    your foundation.  Brand name "ULG".

    Thanks Brian,
        I do have a sloped back yard and because of the cost I would
    find it more affordable to go with the sona tubes. I could do the base
    with latic and bushes to give it a finishing touch. 
                                                                Ed

    
    My front stairs are poured, solid steps.  Over the years they have
    settled.  The first step down from the house is now quite a drop.
    I'm now considering using a jackhammer to break up this huge mass
    of concrete and put in precast steps.  The precast steps are only
    attached to the house's foundation with brackets that let every-
    thing move.  The front of the steps rest on the ground and are free
    to move up and down with the landscape.
    
    Given the amount of work, dollars and eventual aggrevation of poured
    steps I'd put in precast.
    
    
    

	I have a fieldstone foundation which I repointed on the outside,
	but in the basement there are sections where the cement between
	the stones has literally turned into powder.  My question is why
	did this happen on the inside of the house and not the outside,
	and how should it be fixed.

	Thanks for the help,

	Dave

>	but in the basement there are sections where the cement between
>	the stones has literally turned into powder.  My question is why

Are you sure it's cement (or mortar)?  I had a fieldstone foundation which 
was mortared on the outside but on the inside there was just wall plaster 
which was applied to stop drafts.  The outside was very nicely done with 
round fieldstone and pointed nicely too.  The inside was rough and ugly 
rocks with large gaps in many places, which in turn was filled with this 
horrible, old, dry, powdery, horsehair plaster.  It was then covered with a 
thick paint of some type but in many places this was deteriorated and then 
the dry plaster crumbled to dust.  I repaired many areas with real mortar 
and this was very time comsuming.  Since I was only stopping drafts I would 
probably plaster myself next time.  At any rate, if you find horsehair in 
the crumbly places that is a pretty good indicator that it's plaster you're 
faced with.

Craig

    
>>     >	but in the basement there are sections where the cement between
>> >	the stones has literally turned into powder.  My question is why
>>
>> Are you sure it's cement (or mortar)?  I had a fieldstone foundation which 
>> was mortared on the outside but on the inside there was just wall plaster 
>> which was applied to stop drafts.
    
    This is a common thing (based on what I've seen) to happen to old
    mortar.  Older mortar was a different formulation than the type
    used now, I believe.
    
    -tm
    

	Yes it is either, or used to be, old cement or mortar.  I was hoping
	that there may be something that may be applied which would harden
	this stuff up some, so as to at least keep down on the dust piles
	showing up on the floor.

	Dave

    I had an expert look at time and he called it hot lime.  they used
    to use this before the advent of concrete products.
    
    mine is painted too.  sections have fallen out and I am patching
    it with sand concrete and stucco over all.  now that I am living
    in the north I add something called x-100 to the concrete and c-21
    to the stucco.  makes it dry better and water proff too.

>    mine is painted too.  sections have fallen out and I am patching
>    it with sand concrete and stucco over all.  now that I am living
>    in the north I add something called x-100 to the concrete and c-21
>    to the stucco.  makes it dry better and water proff too.

Mortar mix sticks to verical surfaces better and is generally more workable 
than sand mix.  I don't know if it works as well with your additives.

Craig

    We've got pins sticking out of our new foundation.  BILLLLIONS of 'em.  Our
excavator, in his estimate, said he'd break the pins and tar the foundation.
Well, he broke the pins on the outside, tarred, and back-filled.  The pins are
still on the inside.  So we learn.
    Our excavator described his technique for breaking pins - take your car's
pneumatic jack pipe thingie, place it over the pin, bend it back and forth
a few times, and it snaps off (the pin I mean).  Assuming the pins are
adequately sealed on the outside, it seems that the excavator-recommended
method will cause the pin to wobble around before the end snaps off, and that
this wobble will likely compromise (break) the tarred seal.  Yes No?
    Any other suggestions for breaking these foundation pins - upwards of 400
of them?

    We did that 25 years ago, on my father's house foundation. We beat
    them off with a hammer. The have not leaked to this day.
    
    TPV

>    Well, he broke the pins on the outside, tarred, and back-filled.  The pins are
>still on the inside.  So we learn.

    Hopefully, what you learned was not to use that excavator again.
    
    You're right that when you break off the pins, many of them will
    move loose.
    I think it depends on what he used to do the tar.  If he used regular
    foundation sealer I don't think it was very waterproof to begin
    with.  So it doesn't make much difference.
    If he sealed it with something like roofing cement, it's
    pliable enough so it might still hold the seal even after the pin
    moves.
    
    If he used hydraulic cement (not likely), then you'd have a problem
    because this would break the seal on some of them.
    
    

    

    
    If you're worried about loosening them, try a Sawzall with a metal
    blade.  Get a long blade that will flex a little.  It should cut
    through them pretty quickly.  But I think just wacking them with
    a hammer (w goggles) will be just fine.
    
    Phil

    uh -- if the pins move, don't you have a much worse problem than
    leaks -- like an extremely unsound foundation?
    
    I believe that the solid concrete wall will keep the pins totally
    immobile except for the part you break off.
    
    You might visit your local hardware store and get a four to six
    foot chunk of inch or inch and a half iron water pipe -- gives you
    more "authority" for the pins.
    

The method I used was to bend the pin over, put a pipe over the pin and in about
1/2 twist it will break.  I guess if the foundation is really solid the pin
won't move, but I'd sure be scared of opening a leak.  How about trying it with
the top row of pins and see what happens (odds are any leaks would come from
much lower).  If the pins move, I'd think the only choice would be the sawzall.

-mark

    The pins ("form ties"?) are not that thick (5/16, 3/8 ?) and are
    notched to facilitate breaking.  An 18" piece of 1/2" iron pipe
    would be ideal for slipping over and twisting.
    
    The pin should break slightly behind the surface of the wall, leaving
    a little dimple that can mortared in for good appearance.
    
    The wall is certainly 8" thick and perhaps 10".  There is no way
    that the pin is going to loosen in that much concrete.  Unless it
    was specially greased to do just that.  But what idiot would do
    that? 
    
    Bob

    I used the pipe over the "pin" method, it will go quicker than you
    think. Get a piece of pipe with a small inside diameter, about 5/8"
    will do. A couple of back and forth motions will make them snap off.
    I guess that is why they call them 'snap' ties. 
    
    One other consideration, leave the top row of ties in the areas
    where they won't be in the way or cause a dangerous situation. Because
    you can hang all kinds of miscellaneous junk from them. They will
    support a considerable amount of weight. But I usually play it safe
    and just hang the lighter objects from them.

    have fun, Steve
    
    Ps: If you have the type that uses the large flat washer with the
    small hole... save them. You will find uses for them later.

    I would break them off the normal way using a pipe, then cover the
    inside holes with hydralic cement.   When you break them off, it will break
    the outside seal on most of them.
    
    
    I think that's the best you can do in this case.

    I suspect that if the concrete is fairly new, you may have trouble
    with wobbly pins if you bend them too much.  But, since the excavator
    has already twisted the pins from the outside, I'm not sure you'll
    do significantly more damage from the inside, especially since the
    concrete is now older (and harder) than it was when the excavator
    broke the outside pins.
    
    There are several designs of those things.  Some are notched (as
    mentioned) so they break off slightly below the surface (in theory).
    Some are not; they're the same diameter all the way.
    
    I've always seen contractors use large bolt cutters to cut them
    off.  They are soft steel, and cut pretty easily if the bolt cutters
    are big enough.  A great excuse to buy another tool!!!

    
    
    About a century ago I worked for a while building concrete foundations.
    We broke the pins off when we took down the forms. A three pound hammer
    and one or two good whacks was all it took. on the outside we sealed
    with tar and on the inside with cement.(tar is hard to paint over)
    as far as I know we never had a leak. The pins should not move in
    the foundation, remember there is eight inches of concrete there.

re: .several

    Another vote for the pipe rather than the hammer. I put in my foundation
   in '83. Tried the hammer bit for exactly one of the form ties and quickly
   threw the hammer away in preference for the 18" pipe. Much easier. And
   18" is the right length, too. The six footer that was suggested makes
   for a lot more work.

    I removed mine on the inside and out at the same time when the concrete
   was about three days old. I only recall a couple wiggling. These were
   round ties, however. When I put in my foundation for my addition two
   years ago they used square ties - they didn't move at all when bent off.
   (I.E. round vs. square is the cross section.)

    I used foundation sealer on the outside and nothing at all on the inside
   and nothing ever leaked.

-Jack

    If you do end up with leaks, I found that silicone caulk does a
    great job of sealing from the inside.  They even sell it in a grey
    shade to sort-of match the concrete.
    
    Another REAL Steve

    
    
    
    one thing I did forget to mention was that our pins were notched.
    
    RE.-.13 you may be another real Steve but are you Captain Belt Buckle?

     I was told that there is a special tool that will remove the pins.
    You might be able to rent the tool at a Taler rental or such..

    I just went through this with my foundation.  Thought of all kind
    of schemes.  Tried breaking them with a hammer by hitting the pin
    from the top but that didn't work (only bent the pin), cutting them
    off with a saw, etc.  Then the concrete contractor stopped by one
    day and I asked him for an easy way to break the pins off.  He took
    a hammer, one wack on the SIDE of the pin and it snapped right off.
    
    The pins they used on my foundation were flattened 1/4" steel with
    notches to hold the forms at various widths.
    
    Steve
    
    
    

    
    I've looked extensively through this file and I can't seem to find
    anything on this.
    
    I'm having a modular home delivered in January. I've got everything
    all set except the sill on the foundation. I don't think this should
    be to hard to do and I'd like to do it myself. Is there anyone in
    this file that has ever put a sill on a foundation?  I know I've
    got to use pressure treated 2x6's but that's all I know. One more
    thing, the house is a split entry ranch with a kneewall in the front.
    I will appreciate any information that anyone can give me.
    
    
    
    					Thanks,
    
    
    						Bill

The way I did it was to first put down a sill sealer.  This is actually a roll
of insulation 5-1/2" wide and around 1/2" thick.  It sits between the 2X6 and
foundation to prevent drafts.  On top of the pressure treated 2X6 I put a
second, non-pressure treated one.  The only extra work to do is drill holes in
the pressure treated 2X6 to fit over the bolts which should be sticking up out
of the foundation.

Although I was told my many people you don't need to actually screw nuts over
the bolts (since you're only trying to prevent horizontal movement), I did it
anyway.  Also, I suspect it may even be in the code, but I'm not sure.

-mark

    
    .1 has it right.
    
    The only problem you may run into is the cement is not level enough
    to get away with the 1\2" sill sealer.  I used a layer of mortar
    on top of the cement which takes up all the vairances of the wall.
    
    This was on top of a dry stacked block wall that was then skim coated.
    I suspect that a professionally poured foundation lends itself to
    the sill sealer better.  Either way works fine.  Don't just put
    the 2x6 on the foundation and think you are done.

    	In _Fine Homebuilding_ there is a company that advertises 
    an EDPM gasket that fits between the cement and the sill.  It 
    is probably similar to the material mentioned in .1.  EDPM is
    a rubbery material that has great resistance to environmental
    breakdown.
    					=Ralph=

        Also check  the  plans for the installing the house.  Mine needed
        gaps in the  sill  for the straps that are used to lift the house
        onto the foundation.  

    
    thanks everyone,
    
    I think I will use the method in .1.  My foundation has metal straps
    instead of bolts that just wrap around the sill and get nailed into
    the sill. I'll be attempting this this weekend (if it doesn't snow)
    and I'll let you know how I make out.
    
    
    
    

    You must remember to put two layers of 2x6's because as stated in
    a earlier reply that is the only way to cut a notch in order to
    get the crane straps out. Mine was notch in a "V" groove so the
    notch could be put back in when the box was set down. The notch
    was then chaulked before the exterior siding was put on.
    
    Jeff  

    I also think that you might want a insect barrier to stop mother
    nature's little friends!
    		Wayne
    

    re: .7
    
    When I was getting the building permit for my garage, I asked
    the inspector about a termite shield.  He said it was not required
    (Marlboro, MA) and said it should not be a problem if the top of
    the foundation was the minimum 8" above grade.  Seemed reasonable.
    
    
    Mark
    

    
     Well,The old safe than sorry is cheap insurance in this case. Just
    an idea!
    		Wayne

    
    Thanks for all the info.  I've put the sill on and it was a piece
    of cake. I did not need two sills because my house is not being put
    on with a crane. It's being rolled on. The sill seal is really thin
    I thought it would be some kind of rubberized gasket. My foundation
    was poured with metal straps that wrap around the sill and get nailed
    into it, so I didn't have any bolts to cut either.
    
    				thanks again.
    
    p.s. what is the insect barrier, and is it to late to put on now
    that the sill is on?
     

    My family went before the Rockport Board of Appeals last night to
    get permission to build a new, and somewhat different, house to
    replace the one that burned down last June. (Note #2420).
    
    The earlier structure had been a cottage on a cut-granite block
    foundation with just an unheated crawl space.  We would like to
    rebuild with a concrete foundation, no cellar, but a heated crawl
    space to keep the pipes from freezing and make the place habitable
    in Winter.
    
    The fly in the ointment seems to be that we are located in what
    the Federal Guvmint has declared a Coastal Flood Plane Zone.  This
    means that the Town's insurance is in question if they allow us
    to build there.  We are told that we will have to build the place
    on stilts or pilings to allow the ocean waves to wash through without
    destroying the foundation.  
    
    Well, even though we are only 16' above sea level, if you saw the
    place you'd think this a little bit silly.  I'm familiar with places
    like Scituate [Mass.] where every winter storm rolls the popple
    stones under, around and through all those cottages that were allowed
    to be built on the beach.  But this is on solid ground.  The house
    has been there for well over a hundred years.  Our family rode out
    the '38 hurricane and all the hurricanes in the '50s with no more
    than some salt spray on the windows.  The only time we had any water
    in the yard was during the blizzard of '78.
    
    Unless the greenhouse effect raises the sea level a foot, I don't
    think we are really in any danger, but the Law is the law.  The
    BofA suggested that they would be receptive to a waiver from the
    Federal code if we submitted a foundation plan designed by a structural
    engineer to withstand potential wave damage.  They've already had
    one other reconstructed house down on Bearskin Neck go through this
    and get approval.
    
    What I would like to know is:
    
    	Does anyone have any experience complying with the Federal Coastal
    	Flood Plane zoning requirements.
    
    	Has anyone ever had a foundation designed by a structural engineer?
    	How much are we talking for design? $1k, $2k or what?
    
    	Is it a lot more expensive to build?
    
    Our fallback position may have to be a sonotube piling construction
    with some sort of "breakaway" skirting to give the appearance of
    a house that sits on the ground.  I think that doesn't sound
    particularly attractive and would tend to devalue the property.
        

    Dennis
      I live in Scituate [Mass] across the marsh from a lot of the houses
    on stilts. There are other ways around building with stilts, but
    you still end up living on the second floor. Give me a call at DTN
    228-2343 if you want me to elaborate.
                                             Gary

    If you were buying a house and during the inspection you noticed
    a crack in the foundation which started at the top 
    and traveled to the bottom of the footing like a funnel (1/4 inch
    at the sill to nothing over about 7 feet of foundation), would you
    be concerned?  The crack is noticable from outside and 
    sits smack dab in the center of an addition that is about 15-20
    years old.  Additions seems to be on some sort of fill.
    
    Any info would be appreciated...
    
    jr
   
    
    

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Paul [Moderator]

    Note 2892 didn't have any responses to it either.
    
    
    I have a friend that had a crack in their basement wall and before
    DEC purchased it from them (they were relocated) they were required
    to have it fixed.  Evidently the dirt around the foundation was
    dug out, the existing foundation was jacked up to close the
    crack and another cement footing was poured.   The whole thing cost
    about $10k, so I'm told.
    
    I've backed out of the house that had this problem but I'm still
    interested.
    
    jr

    
    I'm having someone come to my house tonight to give me an estimate
    on replacing a sill. This person comes highly recommended, so I
    have no qualms about using him. What I would like to know is what
    I should expect to pay for a job like this. Only about 14 feet of
    the sill on one side of the house needs replacing (so I think, he
    may indicate otherwise). I would like a rough idea of what to expect
    money wise, so when he gives his estimate I'll have an idea if it's
    reasonable or not. Thanks for your help.
    
    Patty

    This will depend on what is found while ripping out the old material. I
    just finished doing this to my house (rot under the front and side door
    due to lousy construction originally). It took me 3 weekends to do it
    by myself. I had to replace 8 feet of plyood sheathing, siding, the
    sill, threshhold, move concrete steps, slaughter 50,000 ants, etc. It
    cost me about $250 in material and lots of labor since I was doing it
    myself. Depending on what has to be done it could run anywhere from
    $600 to $1500 as a rough guess( and don't be surprised if it is more).
    
    Merle

  Merle's prices seem about right.  The last time I helped out on a job
  like this (~4 years ago), the price charged by a fully-insured
  contractor varied from $70 to $100 per foot of sill.  And there's some
  kind of natural Law that says when you open things up to get a look at
  the sill, there's always more damage than you thought there was.

  JP

re. 14:

	That natural law is that the affected area is triple what is
visible.  I read that in an old house book after I had observed the same
phenomenon on two porches.

    
    Well, the contractor came by and gave us an off the cuff estimate
    of $500. That's for two men and a days work. We'll be getting the
    written estimate in the mail the beginning of next week. I feel
    comfortable with the estimate and the contractor so we're going
    to go for it. Will let you know if anything else is uncovered (God
    I hope not!!)
    
    Patty

	This seems like the closest note...

	Our garage is sided with aluminum on two sides (the front and side
	towards our lawn) and retains the former wood siding on the other
	two sides (the back and the side towards our next-door neighbor).
	The interesting thing :-( is the grade of the land - on the sides
	with aluminum siding, there are a few inches of concrete between the
	ground and the bottom of the siding. On the neighbor's side and
	partway along the back, the ground actually was partly covering
	the bottom (wood) clapboard. Having the brush along the side removed
	revealed the extent of the problem, so yesterday I dug a trench
	along the side and removed the bottom clapboard (what didn't just
	crumble away). There's a fair amount of rot in the wood behind,
	but that's not my question (my father-in-law's a carpenter, he'll
	take a look at it and tell us how bad it is). I'm interested
	in what to do to keep the dirt and moisture away.

	Since only a foot of land on that side of the garage is ours,
	significant grading is out of the question. Is filling the trench
	with crushed stone going to be good enouch? Wouldn't runoff fill
	it in with dirt before long? Would lining it with plastic on the
	bottom and pressure-treated wood alond the side prevent this?
	There is a bit of a slope going from the back of the garage towards
	the front, where the driveway is not very well graded (if there's
	a lot of water it'll collect there, and perhaps even run into the
	garage), so I'd prefer to let the water seep into the ground where
	it falls while still keeping the stone "clean". How deep should I
	dig the trench, and how much space should I leave between the top
	of the stone and the bottom of the wood (the sill) of the garage?
	How do I estimate how much stone to get to fill the trench?

	Mike

	Guess it's not an interesting problem... Anyway, my plan is to
	start at the driveway end and dig it out a couple of inches below
	the level of the driveway their, slope it slightly towards the
	back of the garage, make a short wall of pressure-treated wood
	to keep the neighbors yard from filling it in, and fill it with
	gravel to about the level of the driveway.

	Mike

    A friend of mine has a difficult problem.  His house foundation wall
    next to an inground, soft sided pool is cracking badly and bowing in.
    He wants to fix the problem/stop the problem without spending humongous
    amounts of money and or completely destroying/ripping up all the work
    around the pool and the house.
    
    Here is a diagram of the situation
                                  ________ block wall that is buckling
                                 |
                                 V     |------Decking
    				___    |         ______pool apron
    				| |    V        |          _____pool
    				| |___________  V         |
                                | |           |----       V
               buckling<------- | |................|vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv|
    	                        | |       ^        ;                   ;
                                | |       |        ;<--                ;
                                | |       |        ;   |               ;
                ----------------       Sandy soil      |
    					               soft liner
    
    He has been advised to install a retaining wall inside the cellar
    against the buckling block wall.  The distance between the wall and the
    pool is approximately 12 feet.  The block wall is about 40 feet long
    with about 30 feet cracked.  Apparently the softsided, inground pool
    is applying pressure against the soil, causing the wall to buckle.
    The solution seems to be a bandaid rather than a permanent fix.  
    By-the-way if the pool is drained for any length of time (greater than
    a day, the sides begin to cave in).
    
    Any ideas on how to correct the situation?  The decking can be removed
    because it is rotting, but the owner really does not want to remove the
    pool.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    
    Kent

    With all due respect to your friend, this note just cheered me up. You
    see, I'm sitting here with a leaking hot water tank that, after reading
    .0, now seems like an incredibly minor annoyance.
    
    Edd

    What do you mean by "retaining wall"?  Anything built parallel to the
    existing wall won't work no matter how strong you build it - the
    pressure of that amount of water is formidable.  What would be much
    better is bracing erected PERPENDICULAR to the existing wall -
    something forming a triangle between the basement floor and wall would
    work best.
    
    This of course creates a monstrosity in the basement which may of may
    not be to the owner's liking, depending on the usage of the area.  But
    it's cheaper that redoing everything.

    A couple of articles from the magazine the "NEW ENGLAND BUILDER"
    may help. One article describes the problem you are having
    due to expansive soils like clay on unreinforced block walls over 
    a height of four feet and the second in a later edition describes 
    repairs to failed foundations.
    
    The one article said, "If the amount of deflection is one-third
    the thickness of the wall, then part of the wall is in tension,
    and the wall is structurally unstable". Check the amount of deflection
    with a straightedge.
    
    The other article(s) describes repairs in terms of replacing that
    wall with a reinforced poured concrete wall.
    
    	Steve 
    
    PS: let me know if you would like copies of the articles.

    Steve
    
    I have a block foundation wall that buckled and would like a 
    copy of the articles you mentioned.
    
    Send to:  Joe Baio NYO
    
    Thanks

We have a block foundation that is buckled (3 - 3 1/2").  We heard all sorts of
reasons for this buckling ranging from 'it was built that way' to ground
pressure.

We had a structural engineer (Gino Cosimini, Natick, MA - there is a note on him 
somewhere in this conference) inspect it and determine what kind of pressure it 
was actually under now.  He showed us all kinds of calculations on how he 
determined our pressure and showed us building code limits.  He then
presented us with a few different solutions and formally designed the solution 
of our choice.  We happened to choose a retaining wall.  

Having a professional design is expensive ($60 per hour).  In our case we felt
is was worth it.  It depends on how confident you feel about your structural 
knowledge and how much of a chance you want to take on the foundation of your
house!

Good luck!

  

    re silicone cement-patching substance: (.8, .9 in particular)
    
    Did you remove the washers from the pins first?  (I suspect that it's
    impossible to seal well without, but haven't actually tried this yet).
    
    And do you do this before or after applying sealant to the wall?
    (I'm guessing "before", but would prefer to know why.)
    
    Dick

    The system used in our house to patch the tie rod holes was
    small wedge-shaped pieces of some plastic (nylon?) material
    that were driven into the wall (from the outside) after the
    tie rods were removed.  Seems to work fairly well; I've never
    seen any leakage past the wedges.

>    Did you remove the washers from the pins first?  (I suspect that it's 
>    impossible to seal well without, but haven't actually tried this yet). 
    
My pins were the "newer" square snap-off ties that don't use washers.
When they snap-off properly they are sightly recessed (1/4") below the
surface of the cement. This forms a nice little crater that can be
filled with the Silicon caulk. 

>    And do you do this before or after applying sealant to the wall?
>    (I'm guessing "before", but would prefer to know why.) 
    
Are you refering to sealing the outside of a new foundation? What I
did was patch all of the ties on the outside with regular tar patching
cement and then applied the sealant. I hadn't thought of or considered
the use of silicon at this time. I used the silicon later on the
inside for a dozen or so ties that leaked after the everything was
backfilled. 

I also used the silcon to caulk a floor to ceiling crack that appeared
in one of the cement walls and leaked sligthly. I believe the crack is
an expanion crack due to the length of the wall, 44' long and
straight. The silicon filled and stuck to the crack very well. I did
chip the crack open to be about 1/2" wide and 1" deep, cleaned it,
washed it and let it dry before completely filling it with silicon. 

I believe that a hard patching compound like hydrolic cement would
crack as the wall continued to expand and contract. The silicon stays
firmly attached to both sides of the crack. 

Charly

    Charly (.17 & friends),
    
    My assignment has ties that look round, but they were run through a
    washer on the inside and then bent back & forth until they broke off.
    (I do have one that wasn't broken;  it appears to be of circular cross-
    section, but with a flattened portion near the end for gripping.
    
    A fair number have washers present;  a fair number don't, and some of
    the latter have nice little craters about the diameter of a quarter or
    a trifle bigger, with depths going as much as a half-inch.
    
    These are all on the inside:  I'm not going to dig up the ground
    outside without compelling reason.
    
    At any rate, my intent was to use silicon to seal these, as I've
    noticed that 3 or 4 have little trails of rust, suggesting that they
    have let water in at some time (although no one has observed this
    in the past 6 months).  I suspect that this should be done before
    applying the Thompson's Water Seal, thinking that the silicon would
    adhere better -- but this is a semi-educated guess on my part.
    
    So, which should come first:  sealing pins & cracks with silicon
    caulking, or applying 2 coats of Thompson's Water Seal?
    
    Dick

    I understand there is a chemical which can be purchased that changes
    rust into an inert chemical, effectively stopping rust. I have heard of
    it being used for auto rust/rot. Could something like this be applied
    to the rusted things before applying the caulk?

I would do the silcon caulking first, only because it's been proven to 
work and stick to the concrete in another application (mine).  Then 
you can go over the whole wall with the Thomson's water seal if you wish.

If you were going to be painting the wall, then you would have a new 
issue, how (well) would the paint stick to the silicon.

Charly

    .19:
    
    Well, I'm planning to put a wall up there (2-bys, insulation, sheet
    rock, all that stuff);  I'm not sure that rusting is a problem by
    itself, but seeing what looked like a dried up dribble of rusty water
    suggested to me that water may have entered there, at some time in the
    past (while the foundation was open to the weather, if I'm lucky -- but
    I don't plan on that!)
    
    .20:
    
    OK, that sounds good.  The Thompson's will probably just bead up on the
    caulking and take a long time to dry;  I think I can live with that.  I
    had wondered if there was any advantage (with respect to waterproofing)
    to sealing the cement under the caulk, and whether the sealer would
    affect the caulk's adhesion.
    
    I think that I'll aim for caulking the pins tomorrow night or Thursday
    night, and (if it's not damp) starting to apply the Thompson's on
    Saturday.  That will take some time, because the label states that
    it requires a minimum of 48 hours between coats -- and thanks to the
    pile of gear in the cellar, I can't do it all in one piece.  (Cellar is
    the only place I can put several things, such as a 40" rack suitable
    for stuff like PDP-11s.)
    
    Dick

I want to build a 24x36 post & beam gambrel barn...

Standard foundation would be a 8 inch think foundation wall 42 inches deep to
the base of 8 inch thick 16 inch wide footings.  An alternative would be 12 inch
think walls 42 inches down with no footings, but that's a lot more concrete.  No
rebar required. So says the Norwich Ct building inspector. 

What I'd like to do is figure out a way to dig slit trenches that are just the
right size for the footing and foundation wall.  That way no forms are needed,
and I can pour the footings, the wall, and the concrete slab floor all at the
same time.  The hard part is digging the 16 inch wide space at the bottom of the
8 inch wide 42 inch deep hole, right? :-)  I figure there must be a way to scrap
the sides of the bottom 4 inchs wider on each side... got any ideas? 

I'd like to use some rebar, maybe two at the top, two at the base, and a
couple of loops around them where the posts will be.

concrete seems to run about 50$ a cubic yard.  Any ideas how much rebar will
run?  I keep seeing these huge piles of rebar where they're working on all
the roads in CT... they'd never miss a few ... :-} 

Jim.

RE: .20
	Unless your ground is clay or peatmoss; the walls will cave in
before you get very far...... and if you somehow hold back the dirt while
digging you could very likely have a cavein during the pour.....

	The cost of a backhoe to excavate is around $50 hour... about a
3-4 hour job....

	In order to dig a trench that skinny you could use a trench
digger. Don't know how much they cost.... and several passes would be required.
(they dig a 2-3 inch wide trench)


	So your other option is dig by hand.... Do you really want to do
that???

	Another problem.... Does the building inspector think digging
this hole and pouring going to be ok?? Remember the inspector has to 
pass this foundation.....

	Don't know the going price on rebar.

			Bill


P.S. Let us know how you do.... I believe my foundation very similar in size
to yours is going to cost me no more than $4K.....

>I want to build a 24x36 post & beam gambrel barn...

Couldn't you just put a pillar under each post?

RE: re-bar - probably $.40 - .50 per pound, depending upon quantity.
	     1/2" is .67#/ft, 5/8 is 1.04.  Call a masonry supply company.

    Ditto on .22; use Sonotubes.  You'd need a sizable footing for each, so
    you'd end up digging good-sized holes to set the tubes in, but you'd 
    use a *lot* less concrete.  Why do you think you need a full wall
    foundation?  I assume you're building a floor in the barn.  If not,
    you may want the full foundation so the wind doesn't blow under
    the walls.

Well, I probably *could* get away with Sonotubes, but the BI says Sonotubes are
for raised structures or buildings without floors.  I at least eventually want
to have a concrete floor.  I also want this to last, and the barn is at the edge
of a top of a slope, so I think a foundation wall is a good idea.

perimeter of a 24x36 barn is 120 ft.  a 42x8 foundation wall has a 336 si cross
section.  a 16x8 footing has a 128 is cross section.  Total cross section 464
si or 3.2 sf.  Total volume is 387 cf or 14.5 cy.  At $50 a cy the concrete
will cost $750 with no forms and no rebar.

Hmmm...  a 12 inch wide wall no footing would be 504 si or 3.5 sf; 420 cf
or 15.5 cy.  Big Fat Hairy Deal.  This makes digging the footings a moot
point; I'm not going to sweat it over $50.

A 24x36 floor would be 864 sf.  A 4 inch thickness is standard, which is 287 cf
or 10.6 cy, or $550.  6 inches would be better at 432 cf or 16 cy and $750.
Plus 4 inches of gravel and 4 inches of sand and wire mesh if you are inclined.
I'd be inclined to skip the gravel & sand on ground that is pretty well sand
and stones anyway.  I'd like to have the wire mesh though.

The floor is complicated by the fact that there is currently a falling down
barn occupying the space I need to build the barn in.  I'm slowly dismantling
the barn, and using the wood that is not rotted out to build a couple of
12x12 sheds to store the stuff that is in the barn in.

The Current Barn mostly has a concrete floor on unknown age.  It has a few
cracks and little tilting, but not much.  Mostly it was poured at different
levels to begin with.  The foundation that is there is several differing styles
of old concrete, or rocks.  I plan on digging the foundation for the new barn
just outside three sides and just inside the forth side to minimize having to
dig up the old foundation; I imagine that would be a *lot* of work.  I'd like to
have to mess with the old concrete and foundation as little as possible, and
just pour over the old floor, and around the old foundation. 

What do you think?

Barn is a euphamism.  It's going to be a workshop.  I want to insulate it,
and eventually make it more or less living/work space.  But if I construct
it as a barn, there are a lot less constraints.

Ji.

	My foundation was just poured and I have to break the pins and do the 
tar.	Is HYDRAULIC cement still the best product to use to fill the pins 
holes?  Also what about this tar sh*t.

Bob Puishys

    If you use a 'foundation-wrap' (plastic or something), instead of the
    tar, your basement will stay drier.  I don't know what the cost
    comparison is, but figure the additional cost of plastic (I assume it's
    more), versus the cost of running a dehumdifier all summer - forever -,
    as well as potential 'moisture damage' to things stored in the
    basement.
    
    pw

    
    Could someone please help me with an answer to a question that
    I have about foundations that I have not see answered directly.
    
    I am seriously considering buying a new home in Franklin, MA.
    
    The structure is a 36 x 24 Colonial.
    
    Here is the question:
    
    Is is Mass. State Code (and thereby also town code) that 
    all concrete foundation structures MUST be built upon footings?
    
    I have just discovered that the builder is NOT using footings
    (AT ALL!) to sit the 8 inch wall upon.  
    
    The builder is setting the concrete walls (don't appear to be steel
    rod reinforced) upon stone (2-3 inch diameter)
    
    The walls are NOT on Footings, I have had this fact witnessed by my
    brother who is a N.H. huse builder.
    
    The earth around the foundation seems to be a mixture of 75% sandy,
    25% clay.
    
    The builder is not installing any footing drainage with the foundation
    (needless to say, but another fact to note.)
    
    IS BUILDING A 36 X 24 COLONIAL STRUCTURE IN MASS WITHOUT ANY FOOTINGS
    LEGAL?
    
    IS IT ADVISEABLE?
    
    HAS ANYONE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH OR KNOW OF BUILDERS IN MASSACHUSETTS
    BUILDING 2 STORY COLONIALS WITH FOUNDATION WALLS THAT HAVE NO
    FOOTINGS ??
    
    thanks for your help in advance.
    
    Ted
    
    

                -< LEGAL ? HOUSE FOUNDATIONS WITHOUT FOOTINGS? >-

    IS BUILDING A 36 X 24 COLONIAL STRUCTURE IN MASS WITHOUT ANY FOOTINGS
    LEGAL?

>>>>It doesn't sound that way, but your local building inspector is the 
person to ask. He should be able to show you in the building code where it 
allows this practice. (I wouldn't just take his word for it.)
    
    IS IT ADVISEABLE?

>>>>That is a whole 'nother story....I wouldn't do it.
    
    HAS ANYONE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH OR KNOW OF BUILDERS IN MASSACHUSETTS
    BUILDING 2 STORY COLONIALS WITH FOUNDATION WALLS THAT HAVE NO
    FOOTINGS ??

>>>Not personally, and I worked with a building inspector for about 8 
months. Foundations should be below frost line (eg, 4' deep in these parts)
with a footer poured onto undisturbed soil. The footer may/may  not need a 
form to create it, but should have a keyway set in the top. Watch the nifty 
graphics.....this is a side view.
    
--------------		--------------
    	     |		| top of soil
    	     |	4' deep	|
    	     |		|
    	     |		|
    	     |___   ____| This is the top of the footer. The u shaped 
    		|   |	   channel is usually created by laying an oiled
    		-----    2x4 into the wet cement, then removing it later.
    			 This would give a good key to start pouring or 
    			 building on top of.

    Best bet.....talk to the local building inspector. He can explain the 
code. If in doubt about his answer (Like, yeh, I approved it 'cause my 
brother in law built it that way) then talk to the main office in Boston on 
Warburton Place (I think). They have regional inspectors who can anser 
questions.

    Vic H

    I think these days they are pouring foundation walls without footings.
    I guess they've found that given the loads involved, the footings
    aren't needed.  
    
    Or so they claim.  Check with the building inspector, he can tell you
    for sure.  It may depend a lot on what the soil is.  For some types
    of soil you probably still need footings.

      

The building inspector used to be able to tell you "yes" or "no" on the
footings requirement based upon his timely inspection of the EXCAVATION.
If the soil was all gravel, and drainage was good, the inspector had the
authority to waive the need for footings. This was 1976, Lexington, MA,
construction. 

I would recommend 10" concrete walls, and backfill of crushed stone, 
full-depth x 24".

    You say it's a 36 x 24 colonial - single story ??
    
    The reason I ask is that I know of some folks who would like to 'raise
    the roof' i.e. add a second story.  They can't due to inadequate
    foundations.  If this IS only a single story, the foundation may be
    adequate, but limits any growth.
    
    It reaaly comes down to soil conditions as to whether or not a footing
    is required.  Certainly a footing is more solid.  It may not be
    necessary.
    
    Again, depending on soil conditions, drains may not be required. 
    However, it is VERY rare that they are not required.  It's usually the
    builder saving a buck and it's much more expensive and difficult to add
    it later.  I might forgoe the footing, but I'd beat up a builder to put
    the drain in.
    
    my $.02

    I went through this recently.  What my town inspector said was I did
    not need footings since I was having a 10" foundation wall done (I put
    the footings in anyway).  He said that if I went with an 8" wall, I
    would need the footings.  I agree with the others, check with your
    local inspector.
    
    - Mike
    
    BTW, mine is a 2-1/2 story house
    
     

    
    I am looking at purchasing a piece of land that is composed of
    ALL ledge which goes down at least 15 feet.  Is it possible to
    simply anchor the foundation walls on top of the ledge with 
    reinforcing bars as described in -.1?
    
    Do I need to construct footings on the ledge, or can I place the
    walls directly on the ledge?  How deep should the crawl space
    be between the ledge and the first floor?  Is there any reason
    to put a floor in the foundation?  Do the walls have to be any
    thicker than normal for this type of design?
    
    The lot is in Massachusetts and is basically flat in topology.
    I would be building a 2 and 1/2 story house on this lot.  The
    house would be about 2700 sq. ft in footprint.
    
    Are there any other factors I should be aware of with this
    type of foundation design, i.e. water seepage ledge and foundation,
    type of concrete to use to interface between ledge and foundation, etc.
    
    Any help + suggestions appreciated,
    -g.a.

    re .-1
    Can't speak for your primary questions, but I would put some good
    ventilation in the crawl space, and living areas. Building over
    ledge would most likely increase your likelyhood of a high radon
    count.
    
    John

    
    
    While not being a building inspector, architect or engineer, it would
    seem to me that a footing would not be necessary depending on the
    following:
    
    	1.  The foundation rests on the ledge.
    	2.  The ledge is indeed 15' thick.
    	3.  The ledge is of some substantial material.
    
    If the above applies, then I would think that the ledge becomes the
    footing.  I would clearly anchor the foundation to the ledge.  If
    radon is a problem or you suspect it to be a problem, then you should
    provide a solution such as sealing it off and providing ventilation.
    
    If you are going to have crawl space, I would treat it like other 
    crawl spaces in the area.  I would at the least cover it with plastic
    and vent it to keep the moisture level down.
    
    
    

    
    What about water and septic?
    
    CdH
    

    Yes a trench will have to be blasted for water, sewerage and
    utilities.  The going rate for blasting is approx. $60 per cubic
    yard.  Building an entire basement though would be prohibitive -
    in the $40-50K range.

According to my book of New England geography and geology, you can find
a ledge by poking a hole in the ground almost anywhere in New England.  A
close paraphrase of the author's statement:  "What you see in cuts along
expressways is an accurate cross-section of the average land in New England,
six to twelve feet of dirt on top of 10 to 60 to ? feet of ledge."

Why do you think they call New Hampshire "The Granite State"? :-)

			Steve

We had lots of ledge on our lot and had to blast the complete foundation
and a piece for the driveway.   The foundation was 28x48 with 16x24 ell.
It costs us about $3500 in blasting.  That was 2 years ago.
Ledge does cost more to excavate and potentially more for a septic system.
We did have a radon problem but if you plan ahead it wont be expensive
to get rid of it.  Anyhow it cost about $19,000 for the excavation, septic,
and driveway.  It cost about $8000 for the concrete (footings, walls, and
floor).  BTW some of the footings were poured directly onto the ledge and
were varying in thickness because of the slope of the ledge.  
Anyway it should cost a lot less than $40-50k to get a basement out of ledge.

-Larry

My parents built a house in Vermont and had to blast into ledge for the
basement.  The house is situated on the side of a hill, in the middle of 20
or so acres.  They just kind of blasted the rock out and down.  No need to
haul the stuff away.  If you hade to contain the blasting and get rid of the
rock, that would, of course, increase costs.

It's still fun looking up at the trees around the house and finding scars
on the bark from the rocks, 40 to 50 feet up!

Dave

    What type of ledge is the best for supporting a house (Granite?),
    and which would be the worst (Slate?).
    
    Any rock experts out there?  :v)
    
    g.a.

    re-.1
    Schist is just like it sounds for supporting a house. The decayed
    granite out here in CO is about as bad.
    
    -j
    

Now where did I leave my Civil Engineering hat?  I used to have one here 
someplace.

Limestone is very bad for siting buildings.  When you do the engineering survey
one place will be solid rock and next to it will be a cavern (which could be 
under what appears to be solid rock).  You could come home, walk up your front 
steps and into a sinkhole.  Ocassionally a sinkhole consumes a parking lot (or I
saw pictures of a new car lot) in Florida.

Also I would think any rock that is layered or has a predisposition to cracking
in a certain direction and that direction is aimed down hill.
	    /\
	   /  \		Great graphics abilities there but I think you get the
   \   \  /    \	idea.  I missed a career in chalet design.
    \	\/      \
     \	 \-------\	I am sure there are others.
      \	  \	|
       \   \	|	Stan
	\   \	|
	 \   \	|
	  \   \	|
	   \   \|
	    \	\

Disclaimer:	I looked in Note 1111 but couldn't find anything about this.


	I own some oceanfront property in Maine. Been in the family for
years. It has a little (12x24) cabin on it now. I installed a well and
septic system designed for a 3-bdrm house a couple years ago. The idea
was to get the septic and water in place to support the future "dream
house" which I can't afford to build.

	A problem is that the ideal house site is just over the current
minimum setback from the ocean, but everyone expects forthcoming legislation
to increase that minimum setback, making my site unbuildable :-(. I can't
afford to build a house on it.

	I've been considering (for other reasons) building a 12x16 shed/
garage which I figure I could build for less than $2000.

	It occurred to me that for not a hell of a lot more money, I might
be able to pour a foundation on the house site, then literally cap it off.
Something like a deck on top of the foundation and no house until I have the
money. My understanding of the laws is that this would forever assure
my ability to build the house. It could also provide the storage area
I need in the mean time.

	I'm thinking I could bring the water, electric, and sewage connections
into the basement. An electrical panel with basically only one breaker
installed would service the existing cabin. I'd move the pressure tank
for the well water into the new "basement" and also feed the cabin with
it. Everything could be shut off/pumped dry for the winter, but the inside
of the foundation would be exposed to winter temps. (problem?)

	Am I insane? Has anyone ever heard of this being done? I'm
envisioning something like a 20x40 foundation with some kind of waterproof
deck or maybe even a ground level roof on it. It would be 3 - 5 yrs minimum
before I could afford to pull off the deck and frame a house.

	Does this make any sense whatsoever? All comments welcome.

Thanks...

Erik

    Can't you get your site plan and building permit before the proposed
    legislation is enacted, and thus be grandfathered?  This of course
    assumes that the new setback regulations are primarily administrative
    convenience and would not have any significant effect on the local
    environment.
    
    Another alternative is to "renovate" the shed.  I've seen a four
    bedroom house "renovated" out of a collapsed garage.  Different set
    of rules.
    
    Since your well and septic system are already in place, the property
    has obviously been found suitable for residential occupancy.  Head
    'em off at the pass.
    
    pbm
    

re .1

	Yeah, the idea of getting the permit crossed my mind too. I have
heard that because others have that idea, they put restrictions in that
say the permit is void if construction doesn't _begin_ within one year
after the permit date. I figured that putting the foundation in ought
to assure my building rights basically forever. (FWIW, everyone in the
area including the code enforcement guy seems to think the extra setback
is overkill - there is not real environmental imact)

	More to the point, the shed wouldn't be needed once the house
got built. It seemed to almost make economic sense to build the shed
underground with the intent of building a house on it some day.

	Does anyone know if the exposure to cold for several years would
present a problem? I'mm assuming an easy way could be found to build a
weatherproof "roof" surface.

Erik

There was a fatal fire somewhere in New Hampshire several months ago.
A family was living in a roofed foundation, presumably because they
couldn't afford to build the rest of the house.  An article in the
Globe claimed that there were lots of these around.

    Your place is in Maine and you've never seen cellar-hole houses?!
    In Maine, they're all over the place if you get off the main roads.
    A well-established tradition.
    Now, zoning/building codes may have tightened up in the past few
    years, especially along the coast where stricter codes will affect
    only the "summer people" and not interfere with the natives ;-)
    but I expect you'll be able to do it.

	I found a complete answer which I thought I'd drop in here for
anyone interested.

	According to the builder I talked to, once the foundation is in
it must be heated each winter.

	The advice was build the shed for now, and when ready to build the
house, put it on piers with a very small foundation so that winter costs
will be minimal in the future.

Erik

You don't necessarily need to heat it, but you do need to provide some method of
keeping the ground under the footings from freezing.  Frost line is probably
about 4 feet down, and when the foundation is backfilled around it, the footings
are more than 4 feet below the surface.  In places where the ground surface 
comes down closer than 4 feet to the normal footings, a frost wall is usually 
used, which puts the footings in that area lower than the rest of the cellar.

The problem is that when you don't heat the cellar, the footings are only about
a foot below ground surface, and it can freeze underneath, heaving the walls.
This won't necessarily happen all at once or at all, depending largely on the
soil type and drainage.  Our foundation was exposed for one winter with no
problems.

What you need to do is provide some form of insulation for the winter.  I've
heard of people putting a couple of feet of loose hay in a foundation and 
covering it with a tarp to keep the footings from freezing.

Paul

>The problem is that when you don't heat the cellar, the footings are only about
>a foot below ground surface, and it can freeze underneath, heaving the walls.
>This won't necessarily happen all at once or at all, depending largely on the
>soil type and drainage.  Our foundation was exposed for one winter with no
>problems.

    Could this also cause a newly poured foundation to develop vertical cracks?
  We're looking at a partially constructed house, that has been vacant for over
  a year.  The concrete floor in the cellar has not been poured.  (I read the
  note on cracked foundations.)  This is a case where the inside of the
  cellar would have been as cold as the outside temperature.  The house is built
  on a grade, with a tri-level foundation (i.e., it drops down about 2/3 of the
  way back to about 1/2 level, then drops very low in the back, to accomodate
  doors)

  (The exterior/interior walls and roof are up, with rough wiring, 
  plumbing, and drywall done.  No heating system (although rough plumbing in
  for that.)

If you go to Maine or NH, I'm suprised you haven't seen this before. There
are "foundation homes" all over the place.

You would have to investigate the building requirements in your town. Each one
is different. You are right. They usually have a time limit on the permits. 
You may also want to look into if they have a time limit on completion also.

Overall, I think you plan could be done. Certainly better to try than to lose
the chance for a home on the coast of Maine. I'D LOVE ONE!

						Mark

Something else to consider -- the day the zoning changes may not be the
day that you lose the right to build on your lot.  I'm unfamiliar with
this area of land law (and even if I was, it may not apply in your area),
but you may have a certain period of time to "object" to a zoning change
that affects your ability to use your property.  I don't know whether
the result (if you win) would be to let you build or force the state to
reimburse you for what is in effect a land taking.  Think about how much
you will eventually spend on that house and then go and invest 1% of it
on a lawyer to make sure of your position -- not to mention checking
whether pouring a foundation *really* guarantees your right to build later.

But before contacting a lawyer, talk to the building inspector and other
relevant officials in town.  It might be different when summer people talk
to the natives in Maine, but I've often found that one can get a lot more
flexibility out of officials by *asking* instead of *telling*.  

	Luck,
	Larry

    
     My wife bought an old house about 2 1/2 years ago that apparently
    had structural damage/imperfections on one side wall of the foundation.
    
    The house is 130+ years old and is a four family Victorian, 2 1/2 
    stories high. It's a BIG house.
    
    The front and one side of the foundation was built with huge granite
    stones and is very stable. The original back wall is now an interior
    wall as at some point an addition was built off the back of the house.
    It is made of red mortared brick, the same kind found to build
    chimneys. The remaining side wall, (the damaged one), is also made
    of the red brick, believed to be two deep.
    
    This wall has been steadily bowing inward for the last two years and
    no pattern has been noticed whether it takes place after heavy rains
    snowfall, etc.  The limestone/mortar used is all dried up and is
    easily removed with the brush of your finger. 
    
    We had a general contractor come in and brace the wall with 2X6's from
    the floor to the wall, with plywood sheets against the wall.  This 
    appeared to help, but the house is still moving.  Yes, moving!!
    
    The previous owner had installed lally columns here and there to help
    support the house, and we had the back wall of the house jacked up
    about 1/2 " with temporary beams and lally columns to help take some
    of the pressure off the side wall. (at a contractors advice)
    
    We've had estimates of $14k - $20k to replace the side wall and a 
    portion of the back wall, but can't realistically afford that kind
    of money yet for those kind of repairs.
    
    This is sort of a plea for help, but have we exhausted all our avenues
    for short term repair of the wall?  Any suggestions?  We can't very
    well sell the house in it's present condition, obviously.
    
    Any advice is welcome, short of putting my head between my knees and...
    
    Tom

>    This wall has been steadily bowing inward for the last two years and
>    no pattern has been noticed whether it takes place after heavy rains
>    snowfall, etc.  The limestone/mortar used is all dried up and is
>    easily removed with the brush of your finger. 

    In  this  bi-months  (Mar-Apr?) Old  House  Journal is an  extensive
    article describing the use of "Concrete  I-Beams"  to reinforce weak
    foundation  walls  (re:    Old Victorian House  in  S/F  with  quake
    damage).
    
    However, it doesn't seem like a cheaper alternatie  ..  but might be
    worth  considering.    Other than removing the  weight  of the house
    (Lally Columns) or  rebuilding  the  foundation  wall,  it seems the
    options are limited (I  have  a  barn  with a collapsing field stone
    wall, but the lally columns  are effective in lifting the weight off
    the wall itself.
    
    If you  feel  really desperate, try calling some of the "Restoration
    Villlages"  adn  see   if  they  can  offer  some  technical  advice
    (Strubridge Village, Sturbridge Mass;   Strawberry Banke, Portsmouth
    NH, etc ) ??
    
    -BobE
    
    

The reason the wall has buckled is simple soil mechanics.  The side pressure
in the soil at a given depth is simply DEPTH*WEIGHT/CU.FT.  This call a hydro-
static pressure.  Soils are about 125 lbs./cu.ft. damp (as I recall).  There-
fore, the pressure on a linear foot of wall is the area under the curve below. 
This is (8*(8*125))/2 = 4000 lbs per linear foot.  Now multiply by the length 
of the wall to get the side force on the whole wall.  The force on the wall is 
resisted by the corners of the wall and the intersection with the floor.  As 
the mortar in your brick wall deteriorated the strength of the wall to support 
this force diminished.


	| |\<-- side force = 0 at surface
	|w| \
	|a|<-\
  air	|l|<--\	soil
	|l|<---\
	| |<----\
________|_|<-----\<-- side force = 8*125 at 8 feet

The stop gap measure of trying to brace the wall against this force was 
insufficient.  Jacking up the house took the weight of the house off the wall
and reduced the friction forces between the bricks and accelerated the collapse 
of your wall.  Though it will keep the building from falling into the cellar 
hole.

The real solution is to jack up the building, excavate and put in a poured
concrete footings and wall.  How much of this you can do yourself depends on 
how adventureous you are.  You might act as general contractor.  Find a person 
to excavate the old walls.  You could build your own forms.  My dad did this.  
Then call a ready mix company to fill the (hopefully strong enough) forms.
Call the excavator to back fill the area near the wall.

Less expensive, temporary fixes might be to run I-beams across the cellar to
brace on the opposite wall.  I doubt this meets codes.  Or simply fill the 
cellar with dirt. ;-)

Stan

>The real solution is to jack up the building, excavate and put in a poured
>concrete footings and wall.  How much of this you can do yourself depends on 
>how adventureous you are.  You might act as general contractor.  Find a person 
>to excavate the old walls.  You could build your own forms.  My dad did this.  
>Then call a ready mix company to fill the (hopefully strong enough) forms.
>Call the excavator to back fill the area near the wall.

      I  would  NOT recommend this as a DIY project.  My reasoning is as
      follows:  Few people realize just how heavy a  concrete  wall  is.
      Therefore it is not uncommon for DIYrs to make the forms too light
      and have them collapse.  Under the best of circumstances this is a
      bad mess. In your case it could be worse. What would happen if the
      forms gave way  and  10-20  tons  of  concrete  flowed  into  your
      basement?   Would  the  laly  columns be knocked down?  Its a good
      possibility that they would.  I suspect that  the  house  wouldn't
      totally collapse, but the situation would make the $20K quote look
      like pocket change!

      Of course this sort of thing can sometimes happen to professionals
      too, but they have liability insurance to protect  them  and  you.
      (This  is  a  case  where  you want to be sure to verify liability
      insurance  coverage  before  the  contractor  sets  foot  on  your
      property.)

I wouldn't recommend it either, but the guy was asking for suggestions.  And as
Clint Eastwood (a different kind of DIYer) says "A man's gotta know his
limitations".

I thought of another possible DIY approach.  See above for caveat.  Excavate
the buckled wall.  Build a cement block wall with reinforcing rod and cement
down the holes for added strength.  Backfill.

Stan

    
    Thanks for your suggestions/help in this matter.  I guess I needed 
    some feedback other than my own before I continued any farther on
    this *little* project.
    
    My plan is to jack up the existing temporary lally columns another
    1/4 to 1/2" and possibly add one or two more to the support beams
    that run perpendicular to the wall.  My hope is that this will buy
    us another six months or so, until we are in a position to finance
    this project/adventure.
    
    Question:  If the house slides off the foundation and on to my 
    neighbors property, do I have to notify the Post Office that my
    address changed???  :^)
    
    Thanks again,
    Tom

	If this is covered in another note, please point me to it.

	I have a house 100+ years old.  The foundation for the main part on the
house is field stone capped with granite lintels, such that only the granite is
visible from the outside.

	Around this foundation, the topsoil has eroded back to the point where
the whole lintel is now visible and gaps can be see between lintel ends, and
between lintel and fieldstone base.

	What is the best way of re-pointing, re-sealing, repairing this
situation??

	There is also an extension to the building which was of lower grade
construction, but is now an integral part of the house.  It's foundation is 
field stone with wood lintels/sill plates resting directly on the stones. 
There is no mortar of any kind in this foundation.  The cellar that this
creates is a crawl space (about 2 to 3 foot high).  I want to seal this as the
wind blows straight through and has caused frozen pipes in the past.  I
currently have plastic sheet on the inside as a temporary solution, but would
like to use mortar to fill the gaps.  

	There are two problems, first the foundation is very rough and
therefore the gaps are large and irregular (ie this is not just a case of
pointing) and secondly, the biggest section of this foundation has a screen
porch attached to that side.  This effectively prevents access to the outside,
while the small size of the crawl space makes interior access difficult also.
	One alternative I am considering is to add a dummy foundation wall
around the porch.  It is currently supported on steel poles and is totally open
underneath.  What is the best way to do this?  What footings would I need?

	References to a contractor that could do the job would also be good.  I
know about note 2000, but which trade does this best fit?  Mason?

	Any other suggestions welcome.

    I can't see this as a requirement code wise but anytime you pour
    concrete in multiple pours, you want to key it somehow.  When a footing
    is poured, a 2x4 is pressed in the top all the way around so that when
    the wall is poured, a matching tongue is part of the wall discouraging
    any horizontal movement of the wall with respect to the footing.
    
    It's not clear how the two walls meet.  At a right angle ??  Any time
    you add concrete to an existing pour you want to pin it.  This helps to
    keep the new piece in place with respect to the old.
    
    I would not necessarily enlarge the pins.  I might put in more.  No, I
    guess I'd tend to put in more larger pins.
    
    Naturally, if it's all one pour, then it's one piece of concrete -
    course you're adding on ... tough to do this all at once.
    
    I've heard stories of dams being poured or huge complexes like the
    Prudential Center being pured - truck after truck - 24 hours a day - 7
    days a week till it's done.  Someone slips and falls in - he winds up
    buried there.  By the time they dig him out he's dead anyway and you
    wind with a bad pour.  I have no idea as to the veracity of this.  May
    be an old story told to me by concrete finishers as entertainment.

Folks,

I could use some advice.  A few days ago, our builder dug the foundation for
our soon-to-be new house.  Anyway, the soil conditions at the bottom of the
hole are not too good.  After several days without rain, the soil is still wet,
and there are several places where you can literally sink into the mud.  The
soil has a high clay content, and appears to have poor drainage and is somewhat
unstable.

As this is the first time I've looked closely at foundation holes (!), I don't
know what to expect, although I believe this not a good place to start.  The
location on the lot is satisfactory, so I don't necessarily want to move the
house, and I'm not sure I'd have much say in the matter anyway ("builder
reserves right to determine placement on lot", etc).  I haven't spoken with
the builder about this yet since I'd like to get educated on the matter first!

I assume that the building codes will protect me somewhat, and that the builder
will probably have to pour larger footings, etc.  What I'd like to know is
what should I watch out for in terms of foundation considerations.  Should
I allow construction to continue provided the builder meets code?  Is it still
possible to get a reasonably solid foundation?  Is this situation common in
New England? (house is located in Westford MA)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

...Ken

PS: Mr. Moderator - I saw/read lots of topics on foundations, but none dealing
    with soil/stability considerations.

    a friend of mine hit clay, and had all kinds of problems with drainage,
    they ended up trucking out literally hundreds of tons of the stuff then 
    trucked in tons of gravel... they can't put footings on clay as it's 
    not a good solid base.
    
    He not only used perimeter drains outside the footings but used them
    around the inside as well as across the basement floor.
    
    he hasn't had any problems with drainage, but took the necessary
    precautions based on what he saw after a couple of days rain in his
    cellar hole.
    
    Fra
    

    My home, as well as the 70-something others in my `development' are
    on/in clay.  I haven't seen a trace of water in my basement in four
    years.  The only water-in-the-basement complaints I've heard from
    neighbors are the ones who have this enormous hill that starts in their
    back yards, and from the ones who've had foundations that were
    defective.  I've even a slight crack in my foundation from, I presume,
    settling, and I've never had a problem.
    
    The only problem I've experienced from having clay (sub)soil is
    difficulty in keeping shrubs and trees from drowning, and excessive
    moisture in my backyard mostly due to my neighbor's driveway rain
    runoff...
    
    FWIW,
    John

    If you put in a big enough footing it shouldn't be a problem, but
    IT ALL DEPENDS on the particular situation.  You might bring up
    your concerns with the building inspector.  He's supposed to 
    inspect the foundation and be sure it's suitable for the conditions,
    after all.  I expect you'll be okay.  A house, in fact, is pretty
    light (relatively speaking).  The load per square foot is fairly
    low.  The foundation wall itself probably is heavier than the house
    it's holding up....the ground has to hold up the whole package, of
    course, but you're still not talking about really heavy loads per
    square foot unless you're building a solid brick house or something.

    
    Clay has nothing to do with it. Where I grew up (Syracuse NY), the
    whole are is clay. In fact there's a town called Clay. They've been
    doing it in there for a few hundred years, and I'd say that there are
    probably over 1 million homes and buildings built there.
    
    Mike

Mike --

Are you sure that Clay's named after the stuff and not some person?
Perhaps Henry Clay?

    Every single house in Atlanta Georgia is built on clay.  

    
    re .6
    
    It's probably named after Henry Clay. But the town sure has a lot of
    clay. Maybe Henry Clay was named after the top-soil. 8*)
    
    Mike

    Bruce thats exactly what the guy who I was refering to in .1 did.
    (i.e. coal tar/poly stone/drains/poly etc...)  hasn't had a problem
    since.
    
    while there may be better situations around the country where clay is
    present, this guys celler hole was nothing but a big soupy mess after a
    couple of days of rain.  Were talking quicksand here....  and based on
    the water retention factor of clay anything you can do now while it's
    open to insure a dry basement is to your benefit.
    
    FWIW,  fra

    
     You don't want to build a foundation on wet clay, check the water
    table level and as a previous reply suggested put in drainage pipes
    to drain water away from the footings, put gutters and roof overhangs
    to minimize water around the foundation. Compared to other soils,
    clay has the worst load bearing capacity (1000-2000lbs/ft2), so wider 
    footings and pads (example, brick chimney pad ) may be needed. If
    the water table is high maybe a different foundation is better for
    you.
    
     The clay around your foundation will still become wet. This will
    make the soil shift more under the footing , usually in an non-uniformed
    fashion, also when wet clay freezes its expansion produces alot
    of pressure on your foundation wall. Recommend you put 3 or more
    runs of rebar to stiffen your footings and also a keyway. The foundation
    walls when poured then "key" into the footing and are more resistant
    to side pressure, rebar the foundation walls as well. I went with
    a stronger 3000# concrete as well.
    
      Another option is to remove the damn clay. Amazing how miserable
    wet clay is to walk on, it can suck a pair of rubber roots right
    off your feet!
    
      Your concern is justified, get help.
    
    clay (my name, small coincidence)
    

    re:.26 (continuous pouring)
    
    I once worked for a large construction company (Turner Constr.) that
    built many of the larger concrete buildings (vs. steel beam & girder)
    in Boston. One of the more innovative jobs was the Westin Hotel in
    Copley Place. Not only did they continuously pour 'round the clock,
    (we would often have 18+ trucks from Boston Sand & Gravel lined up
    around the block waiting to pour) but for the central core, which would
    contain the utility mains, elevator shafts, etc..., they used a system
    of forms that were constantly moved upward (verrrrrrryyyyy slowly,
    obviously...) via an hydraulic system. As the form moved up, more
    concrete was poured in. By the time the form 'released' the concrete
    at the bottom, it had already dried. pretty neat trick, especially
    since it's a 30+ story building...

    
    Well, it's been a few months and our house is still standing. We went
    ahead and installed about 6-7 more lally columns which has helped, but
    not cured our problem.
    
    We had two structural engineers who own and run their own construction
    firm down in the basement (or cellar) the other day to give us their
    opinion of the problem; what caused it, how our temporary fixes are
    holding up, and what can be done about it.
    
    First, they talked of building a retaining wall inside the cellar,
    supported by steel rods into a footing in the floor and also into
    the current foundation.  But by the time we finished the "tour"
    of the cellar, he had reconsidered for the following reason.
    
    He stated that even if we build a retaining wall strong enough to
    stop the foundation from buckling, it sould not stop the foundation
    from continuing it's slow, but steady deterioration. re; lime becoming
    a fine powder and the old bricks settling. Oh yeah, if we went this
    route, we would lose a stairway down to the cellar which is currently
    our tenants laundry room/workshop.
    
    We have decided to excavate the dirt from the side of the house, jack
    the house, replace the old red brick with either poured cement or
    cinder block.  We also are having the rear walls of the two additions
    knocked out and replaced with cinderblock.  We are starting with the
    rear walls first, because we can afford it now; and do the buckling
    wall next year when we can take out a home improvement loan.
    
    Doing the rear walls first should give the house some extra stability
    for when we do the side wall that is buckling.  It's all rather
    confusing and difficult to explain it in this conference, so I
    apologize if you're confused as I am.
    
    I'm just grateful that we got this sructural engineer to help us
    understand that it is not the end of the world, that what we've done
    so far is fine, and that they can fix it right over time; and with
    some money.....
    
    Tom

    
    Concerning an unheated foundation. The simple solution to prevent
    heaving of the walls is to insulate the foundation cap. The only reason
    there is a frost line at four feet is because four feet of dirt has an
    R value of (mumble mumble). Simply match or better that R value and you
    will have no problems. 
    
    	Bob A.

    
    I need to estimate the weight of a LARGE piece of granit supporting the 
    sill in my P&B barn.  Anyone have a density number for granit handy 
    (pref. in lbs/ft**3, however, I'd be happy to convert from anything
    you've got).
    
    
    Many thanks,
    
    /Jeff  

>  You can do it in this way:
>   - fill a cup with water;
>   - mark the water level;
>   - put in the granite chip;
>   - weigh the cup;
>   - pour out water until it is at its old level;
>   - weigh the cup again.

Put an empty bowl on a scale and weigh it
Place a smaller bowl inside larger one
Fill smaller bowl to maximum
Gently put sample in smaller bowl - water spills over into large bowl
Remove small bowl and sample without spilling more water.
Weigh the large bowl containing spilled water

>   The difference of the weights is the water displacement.

    Could the density vary throughout the piece?

Oh c'mon, folks...

He just wants to know if he can move this thing with a crowbar, or if he
needs a D7 tractor.

Who *cares* how we measure it, or if the density varies?

Sheesh...

				- bruce

Sure. But by taking a representative sample of the granite it should be
possible to get the density accurate within 10%. Depending on what the
boulder looks like, it may be more difficult to get the size accurate
within 10%

I assume the original question was asked because the boulder needs to be
removed. Then you want to know whether you are dealing with a 10 ton boulder
or a 20 ton boulder. You don't want to hire a piece of equipment that can't
do the job, but you don't want a lot of overkill also ($$$$$).

If you can get the weight accurate within 20%, you're in good shape. It
doesn't make a lot of difference whether the boulder is 10 tons or 12 tons.
But then you need to know both the density and the size within 10%.

A geologist can probably tell you the density by just looking at the boulder.
But if you're not a geologist, and don't know anyone who is, you can find
out for yourself by using a scale, a bowl and some water.

    
    -.2  had it about right.  I just need to know if I'm gonna need more
    than a 2 1/4 ton floor jack to raise the sucker up about 6".  
    
    What's happened is that the slab is rotating inward pivoting on 
    one end which supports a corner of the barn.  The end that has rotated
    in has also sagged roughly 6" from the top of the fieldstone it should
    be resting on.   A rough guess (I still have to measure it) is that the 
    slab is 10'x3'x8" or 20 ft**3 for a weight in the range of 3000-4000 
    lbs.   So it might be pushing it, but I believe the floor jack should 
    do the job.  Only thing else I need to dig up is a come-along to 
    persuade it back into place.   
    
    re: Metric system..   being an engineer I'm quite aware of the
    benefits of the metric system, however,  most jacks sold in the 
    US list their capacities in tons, hence the request for a density in
    lbs/ft**3.  
    
    Thank you all for the info, any suggestions from people who have had to 
    do this type of thing before would be greatly appreciated.  
    
    /Jeff
             

What you're describing is somewhat more than just getting rid of some
annoying piece of rock! You may consider getting a pro in for an estimate
before you attempt to do it yourself.

Unless you *really* know what you are doing, I think you should leave
foundation work to the pros! You may end up with the barn falling on top
of you!

Know thy limits!

/Date

    Proceed with all deliberate caution.  Be really careful that the jack
    or any temporary support posts don't kick out on you.
    
    Keep fingers and toes out from under...ALWAYS.
    
    Remember that Archimedes was right.

 I own a 16 year old contemporary split-level.  The house is set on a
 hill and a slab.  The slab actually juts into the side of the hill
 on one end and the first floor rooms on that side actually have retaining
 walls on the outer walls that are backed by earth (i.e. basically is 
 a basement wall).
                          =====Roof    
           Hill  ^       |-----   
                         |     Second Floor
           Ground ->-----=====
                         |
                         |  First Floor
           Slab->        ======

 We've been in the house 5 years.   Recently I noticed that at the top
 of the sheet-rock (these are finished rooms)in the rooms against the
 outer wall on the first-floor, a "wavy-like" appearance was occuring, 
 bulging say 1/4" in between the wall studs, the lower-part of the wall 
 looking ok.  A tile bathroom sits adjescent to the bedroom in question 
 with one tile wall built against the outer wall.  It showed a feather 
 crack running horizontally across the tile enclosure about 3/4s of the 
 way up the wall.  Finally I peeled back a single sheet of drywall and was 
 able to notice a crack running horizontally a little less than a 1/4 inch 
 thick at the same hieght as the feather crack in the bathroom.  No other
 cracks in the wall.  This crack appeared to be running horizontally
 as far as I could see minus tearing down more of the drywall.  I don't
 appear to have (nor have I had)any water damage from this crack.  As I
 said, the walls were poured concrete.

 Having read some previous notes I am making the following assumptions:

             1-This is serious, while at this time I'm only seeing minor
               cosmetic affects, ie., the slight bowing of the wall at the
               top of the drywall.

             2-Big $$$ to repair: time to sell the house.

             3-This is being caused earth shifting against the wall.

 Unfortunately, the walls looked fine when we bought the house and nothing
 showed up in the inspection.

 I'll definitely get a structural engineer to look at the house--but let
 me ask 2 things: 1- Is it safe for me to be in the house; will it collapse
 tommorow?? 2-What are some of the options if we choose to stay & what kind
 of big-bucks may I be talking??    The only wall butting up against the
 earth is the one in question and it runs maybe 30-32 feet length wise.

 I know this is depressing.  Any comments and or advice?

 Thanks,

 

    Re: .13
    Well, don't get too depressed until an engineer looks at it.  If
    you're luckly, you're misinterpreting what you're seeing...but
    if you're not lucky, it is depressing indeed.
    
    No, the house won't collapse tomorrow.  Assuming it's doing what
    you think it's doing, it could keep that up for years, to the point
    that pieces of the wall were coming down, and the house would still
    stay up.  (Not exactly square anymore, but it would still stay up.)
    
    I don't have any bright ideas.  I would encourage you to get the
    engineer out as soon as convenient, because it will be cheaper to
    fix the sooner you start, I expect.  You may be able to excavate
    the dirt along that back wall and refill with gravel or something,
    with a drain along the bottom, and that might relieve the pressure...
    depending on exactly what is causing the pressure.  My hunch (only
    a hunch) is that relatively dry gravel would apply less pressure
    than wet dirt.  If the wall is damaged enough to need replacement,
    it will get "interesting."
    

RE:.13 I would second Steve's thoughts. 

Get an engineer to confirm/relieve your fears ASAP. You will sleep better 
at night knowing what you are facing, rather than facing the unknown.

Two thoughts around the back wall, assuming you have to do something to it. 
First, if there is not a footing tile drain, I would install one and 
backfill with the gravel as Steve mentioned. That should relieve water 
pressure, a real killer of walls, foundations,etc. Water has incredible 
pressure at times and could be causing the problem.

Second, you might want to level out the back yard  a bit by digging a 
deep(!) footed retaining wall behind the house that will stop the pressure 
of the hill behind from pushing into your house directly. (terrible ascii 
graphics to follow....

you have now>\				 \
    	      \	 | <house   	          \ |<wall
    	 Hill >\ |		           \|   |<house
    		\|			    |   |
    		 |			    |---|
    					    |  ^ small open flat area	
 
It isn't pretty, but it may be the best way to relieve pressure against 
the foundation if that is really the problem. 

Do you have a part of the wall where you can hang a plumb line from the 
ceiling down to the floor? That should tell you how much deflection, if 
any, you are really getting. It also sets a benchmark for future reference 
if the engineer says "just watch it for a year".....

    Vic

	Thanks Steve & Vic.  You guys are great--I don't think I've
        ever got a quicker response with real thoughtful feedback.
        Hats-off to you guys and this notesfile.

        I'll hang the plumb line tonight to see if I can get the
        deflection.  It doesn't seem so bad right now and hasn't
        appeared to grow much over the last year or so (since I 
        noticed it).

        I looked at the horizontal crack again last night and the
        edges on either side don't appear to be offset that much
        --probably a finger-nails worth.

        Another guy mentioned to me today that the "wave" affect that
        I noticed along the top of the wall may not stem from the 
        crack, but cool air and moisture that maybe coming in from
        up near where the retaining wall meets the ground and the
        sill for the second floor begins.  At this point the "wave"
        is only noticable at the top of the first-floor wall.  The
        rest of the wall (say 3/4's of the way up to the bottom)is
        at least visably plumb/level.

        Vic--I appreciate your reply.  A thing I forgot to mention
        --the hill does not come straight up against the house.
        Its more like how you suggested.  The hill is gradual and
        comes down, say, to 12-15 feet away from the side of the house.
        There the contractor leveled the lot--so that its reletively
        flat  (for 10-15) up until you reach that wall.  

        Two additional things: The crack runs horizontally at about
        6 ft up on the 8 ft wall.  Its not down near the bottom of
        the wall.  So, I'm guessing, but its probably 1 1/2 ft. down
        from ground-level outside.  Second, Outside on the ground
        against that side of the house is a pad where two air-conditioners
        sit.  I noticed (believe it or not--I guess I'm not too 
        perceptive)that they put the condensate drain right outside
        the side wall with no drainage pipe leading the water away
        from the area.  So, during the summer, the water must just
        drain right into the soil against the water.  I'm wondering
        whether enough water would drain into the soil to cause the
        pressure effect you guys are talking about?  If so I can fix
        the air-condition drainage problem--but will that keep the
        wall from, over time, moving in on the first floor bedroom?

        All said, I'll call in the Engineer and report back on the
        findings.

        Again--thanks,

        b.

I wouldn't think an AC could generate enough water to cause a problem.
The two biggest ways I know of to have a water problem are

a)  Rainwater/snow melt routed towards the foundation.  This can be
mitigated by sloping the soil downward as you move away from the 
foundation.  A lot of houses have this problem -- especially if they
are built into a hillside.

b)  High water table:  If there ground water level is high, nothing
but a sump pump, french drain, or something like that is going to help.

I'm no expert on foundation problems, but I'd think that if the crack
is caused by hydrostatic pressure, you should see water leaking through
it after a drenching rain.  Today in central Mass sure qualifies!  

	Luck,
	Larry

PS -- If cool air is bowing your wallboard, I guess that means there's
no insulation between the wallboard and the foundation?  If you have to
take down the wallboard to fix this, do yourself a favor and install a
vapor barrier and the best insulation you can fit in -- especially within
a few feet of ground level.

    My guess is that you got a bad pour when they did your foundations. The
    fact that the crack is horizontal, and if I understand you correctly,
    less than two feet below grade - where pressure should not be too great,
    suggests to me that there was a flaw in the concrete. Perhaps
    heat/cold/settling triggered the crack. If this is the case I would
    still watch it, but I would worry less.

    re: .18
    Sounds quite likely to me too.
    

    re.18
    Ditto, Sounds like a cold joint in the concrete when it was poured.
    
    -j

    I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask this:
    
    Our house was built in 1986.  The basement walls are poured concrete.
    Sometime over the last few years, each of the four walls has developed
    full length vertical cracks.  This causes a problem with water on three
    of the walls (the fourth is not an exterior wall).  The largest of the
    cracks is about 1/4"-3/8" at the widest point.  They all leak water to
    one extent or another. The leakage seems to be worst during the
    spring when the soil is soft (we have clay and this has been a d-r-y
    summer) and there is runoff from the roof, such as when it rains.  As 
    luck would have it, one is under the front walk and another is under 
    the garden.  I want to fix the problem properly.
    
    I had number one son excavate a large hole next to the foundation where
    the single accessible crack is located.  My original thought was to
    chisel out the crack on the outside, fill it with mortar or some sort
    of filler designed for the purpose and then reseal the repair with tar.
    However, when the hole was completed I noticed two things:  When the
    hole fills with water, I now get no seepage inside and, more
    significantly, the crack is just a barely perceptible hairline on the
    outside.  
    
    I'm not sure if there is any significance to the fact that the crack
    only seems to leak when it's covered with backfill.  I'm more concerned
    about how to repair the wall. With only a hairline crack, I'm reluctant
    to disturb the wall too much.  Any ideas on how to implement a quality
    repair job??
    
    Al
    

After we moved in our house a crack similar to the one you describe appeared
in our foundation and dribbled water when it rained.  We crabbed to the 
builder and he sent someone out.  They chiseled out the crack inside the base-
ment and filled it with hydraulic cement.  They used a backhoe outside and also
chiseled (I think) and filled with hydraulic cement, covered the crack with tar
then plastic and then backfilled.  Everything has been fine for years now.

Should a problem arise I have been planning on installing gutters and running
the runoff out into the woods.  I have been planning to do this for about 5 
years now.  Since there is no pressure, hey, no problem.

Stan

    I think I'd chisel out the crack on the outside, slightly, then run a
    bead of silicone caulk into it.

Maybe water only seeps in near the top of the crack, so water only leaks
in if the top of the crack has earth against it.

Since it is exposed, certainly chisel it out a bit and put hydraulic
cement in it.  (Or caulk, if it's a long lasting kind like silicone).
If you can, grade the ground and use downspouts & spash plates to keep 
water away from that area.  Another trick is to bury a shingle where
the crack is, to keep deflect surface water that does reach that point.

I had a small crack that leaked in rainstorms.  After watching the 
builder "fix" the problem by smearing hydraulic cement in it (he
didn't even chisel it out), I fixed it myself by grading the outside.
It turned out that that was all that was necessary.  I'm impressed with
a builder who actually dug outside the foundation to fix the crack.

	Luck,
	Larry

PS -- I've been told that small vertical cracks are not a structural
problem in poured cement walls.

Can anyone  translate  into  layman's  terms  any  of  the following soil
descriptions?  This is  from  a  subdivision  site  plan in the Hollis NH
area. Maybe we can make this the official "Soil Science" topic.

  Canton Fine Sandy Loam 0 - 8% Slopes
  Canton Fine Sandy Loam 8 - 15% Slopes
  Canton Stony Fine Sandy Loam 3 - 8% Slopes
  Canton Stony Fine Sandy Loam 8 - 15% Slopes
  Chatfield-Hollis-Canton Complex 8 - 15% Slopes
  Chatfield-Hollis-Canton Complex 15 - 35% Slopes
  Chatfield-Hollis-Canton Outcrop Complex 15 - 35% Slopes
* Leicester Walpole Complex Stony 3 - 8% Slopes
  Scarboro Stony Mucky Loamy Sand


* - This is the only one I really need to find out about.

Thanks,
/Mitch

    I think you need to find a friend who majored in civil engineering - I
    believe those are "standard" soil descriptions, so someone with the
    right book can look them up.  The closest I have ever been is when my
    husband needed to order a quantity of "Arizona road dust number
    something or other" for testing some equipment in a dusty environment.
    
    /Charlotte

I don't know if these are standard soil types but they refer to the soil
composition.  They refer to the mix of coarse and fine soil components.  You
should be able to get a graph of the soil composition.  What they do is take
a stack of screens from coarse to fine and pour the soil in the top.  Each
sucessively finer screen retains some of the soil.  Then you plot the result.

	|                               x
 S  R	|                          x
 o  e	|                       x
 i  t	|                   x
 l  a	|             x
    i	|           x
    n	|          x
    e	|       x 
    d	|   x
	------------------------------------------------
		Screen Size ->

Or something like that but you get the idea.

The slope description probably gives you an idea how steep you can make a slope
before it becomes unstable.  The coarser the grain of the soil the steeper you
can stack it.

Stan

I beleive the slope at which a particular material is stable is called 
"the angle of repose".

    
    This may deserve it's own note but thats up to the moderator ...
    
    I'd like to put a door to the outside from my garage. The garage
    is at basement level and the front and back walls are about 4'
    high concrete knee-walls with wood construction on top. There is
    living space over the garage. I would cut through as shown below...
    
                              TOP VIEW
    
          ---------------------------------------          ---------|--|
          _______________________________________   door   _________|__|
                                                                    |  |
                                                                    |  |
    
                                                  overhead door  --->
    
    will this weaken the corner to the right of the door ? it's all
    by itself now ... 
    Is this a DIY ? what kind of awesome tool do I need to rent ??
    
    Randy
    

    I'm interested in doing the exact same thing at pretty much the same
    location on my house as the previous reply explains, only, instead of
    cutting through a straight concrete wall, I want to eliminate the
    concrete fireplace "jog".  This is also about 4 feet high with a wooden
    structure the rest of the way up the garage wall.  I have no fear or
    problem with doing this, just not sure how to handle it.  Part of my
    concern is waste disposal (I will not bury the concrete remains in my
    back yard!)...
    
    Thanks,
    John

    Re: .30
    
    Just curious....why are you concerned about burying the concrete?
    
    Marc H.

    > ...why are you concerned with burying the concrete?
    
    Not so much concerned, just really don't want to do it.  #1, I just
    spent considerable money, time, and effort into re-doing my backyard
    (never had a decent lawn, and now I finally have one) and I don't want
    to wreck it.  #2, my experience over the last 4.5 years at this house
    has been that I only dig when absolutely necessary because there's
    always something down there that will make the job damn near impossible
    to finish.  If it isn't buried construction materials, it's that clay 
    subsoil that'll bring out my extensive vocabulary of curse words... :-)
    
    Also, if I had more than 8,875 square feet (minus the 24'x36' house) of
    land, I'd probably find a burial site somewhere...
    
    John

    O.K.....maybe you can find a place needing "clean fill".
    
    Marc H.

    
    Question from N.H. about concrete foundations and frostlines.
    
    I have a steeply sloping front yard and next spring I want to
    terrace it as it's a bugger to mow.  I'm thinking of a formed concrete
    retaining wall, buttressed at 6' intervals and drained every 2'.
    This will be faced with loose-laid fieldstone.  It will only be about
    3' hight, so normally I'd only lay an 18" footing (if I can get that
    deep as the house is on rock ledge).  The frontage is about 50'
    
    Do I need a permit to do this, and will the wall be subject to
    building codes regarding the depth of the footing?
    
    regards,
    
    Colin
    
    

    re: .34
    Answer to both questions: I wouldn't think so.  Final authority
    is your town building inspector, but I can't see why he'd be
    interested in landscaping details that have no direct bearing
    on the integrity of your house.

    RE: .33
    
    I believe that the only town officials that may be interested are the
    conservation committee (or equivalent).  But even they wouldn't be
    interested unless you are closer than 150' to protected wetlands or
    conservation land.  Their concern is the change in runoff of rain
    water.  A quick call to the town to check the wetlands maps should
    suffice.
    
    Dan

    RE: .36
    
    The 150 foot number is not accurate across the state of Mass. The state
    number is 100 ft for the "buffer zone" to the wetlands. In the buffer
    zone or the wetlands....contact the local conservation commission.
    
    Not sure if the towns can ~legally~ change the 100 ft number to 150 ft.
    Although,some towns do try it.
    
    
    Marc H.

But from what I understand, using formed concrete or even mortar is a very
bad idea unless there is a footing with well draining soil under it.  Aside
from cost, one of the advantages of landscape timbers is that they don't
crack when frost heave pushes up underneath them.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    
    hey ! remember us ??  .29 and .30  .....
    
    someone must have done this before ...\
    
    Randy
    

    Well I've partially done it, on my house, the concrete is cut out,
    but I haven't installed the door yet... Start too many projects and
    dont finish many!! ;^)
    
    In my case my foundation was about a foot and half high, I used a 
    Rotary hammer drill (electric) that can be rented , $30 4 hours,
    $42 day...
    
    My door is going where a double hung window was so I already have
    a header in place.
    Where I cut through the sill of the wood wall, I put a piece of
    1/4 inch thick angle iron to hold the sill to the foundation, 
    because this sill doesn't seem to have any fasteners when it was built.
    
    There are other notes about cutting through concrete in this file.
    
    You may want to watch out for the door top clearing the garage door
    rails, my ceiling is low and it just misses...
    
    I'm sure somebody will want the solid fill, I have some to get rid of
    from some front steps I broke up, just a matter of getting around to
    it. (Someone showed me a round toit, but he wouldn't give it to me!)
    ;^)
    
    The fireplace one should already have the right support built in 
    for the floor and a header may not be needed.
    
    Jean

    There's some notes in here someplace about hiring somebody to come
    with a concrete saw to cut through concrete.  If I were contemplating
    it, I'd probably hire somebody.  It will give you a clean, smooth
    edge (unlike the edge you'd get if you try to drill/hammer/bash).
    It will also save a heck of a lot of work.  Not cheap, but it will
    be done quickly and well.
    
    As far as the remaining piece of wall needing support...it may.
    I can't really visualize exactly what your situation is, but you
    may want to tie the top of the wall into the sill there, if it's
    not already.  I have a vaguely similar situation with a door through
    my cellar wall and, about 2' over, a window.  The narrow section
    of concrete between the two will move, if you push on it hard enough.
    It's not a problem though, as there is nothing pushing on it normally.

>================================================================================
>Note 1172.29                  Concrete Foundations                      29 of 30
>MILPND::STUART                                       23 lines  12-NOV-1991 13:45
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    -< puting a door through a foundation >-
>
>    
>    Is this a DIY ? what kind of awesome tool do I need to rent ??
>    

	You can saw through a 10 in concrete wall with a 14 in. diamond tipped

saw and a tool that looks like a chain saw. These can be rented but be sure

of the costs first. You may find that you will have to pay for the total cost

of the saw. The cutting will go alot faster with less wear if you use alot of

water on the saw blade, this will also keep the dust down.

	The whole job, cutting of the cement should take about 2 1/2 hours.

Good luck.

				Dwayne

re: .37 (and apologies for the digression)

In MA, while the 100ft buffer is the general rule of thumb, it isn't an
absolute limit.  Work within the buffer is presumed to require a decision
by the ConCom; "no impact and no conditions" is a possible decision.

Work outside the buffer is presumed to be of no concern to the ConCom, unless
there is concrete evidence (pun very intentional) that the work will have
an effect on the wetlands.  If, for example, you paved a large area entirely
outside the buffer zone in such a way that a large runoff would enter the
100ft buffer zone and proceed to damage the wetlands, the ConCom could
impose conditions on the work.

   Gary

    Re: .43
    
    True.....since you are now impacting the Buffer Zone . Also,some towns
    have additional regs around the % of the land in your lot that can be
    paved over. I know that Grafton Mass. has rules about that.
    
    Marc H.

    Help, I need to do a Camp lift. (old and sagging like a face)
    
    My cottage is on very sandy lakefront soil (mixed with bolders) built 
    over 40 years ago on very tenuous pilings.. It is sagging and generaly 
    need of a solid foundation.  The back of the camp actualy sits on the 
    ground while the front is up about 2' on rocks and cememt.
    
    Its top down view is:
                                       water
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                               +----------+
                 20'           |  10'     |  10'
     +-------------------------+          +----------+
     |                                               |
     |                                               |15'
     |                                               |
     |                                               |
     |                                               |
     +-------------------------+           +---------+
                               +-----------+
    
    I cant really crawl under to dig new holes, and I wouldn' mind raising 
    the whole thing up a couple of feet to increase ventilation.  I have 
    given some thought to building a "crib" under and lifting it.. and 
    put on external piers.
    
    Any thoughts?                           
    
    Bob
    

The guy with the camp next door to my father's had pretty much the same problem.
It was essentially built in a swamp, and each footing settled at a different
rate, making the place rather crooked.

He had the whole place jacked up and a whole new foundation put in.  What they
did was jack a whole section up a small distance, place it on temporary
supports (mostly 8x8 lumber), jack up another section and support it, then
another, then raise the first a little, ...

The idea was to keep the whole thing evenly supported at all times, else
you risk cracking plaster or windows.  This place could be abused along
these lines somewhat since the settling would have done any damage that
was going to be done along these lines.

Be sure the new foundations go below the frost line, otherwise you'll have to
do the same thing again in a few years.

-Mike

    I have been doing some jacking on the camp, but really cant get under
    it to the center support areas (much less dig foudation holes in the
    center).  If I did make a strong enough beam to support end to end..
    anyone know what size the beam should be? .. and spacing.
    
    
                        |     camp         |
                        |__________________|                   |
                 beam  ======================
         new foundation||                  ||
    

    
    Can't you lift section(s) of the floor from the inside?  If this is
    possible, you could put a capstan-style jack or two near the centre.
    In fact, why don't you simply install the jacks permanently on
    concrete slabs. That way to can always jack it up more to
    compensate for future settlement - no need to put in foundations.
    (These are often used to correct or cure settlement problems, with
    the jack permanently set on concrete & spot welded at their final
    position.)
    
    (use tons of axle grease to prevent them rusting up).
    
    regards,
    
    Colin
    
    

    Hmmmm go thru the floor....
    
    Dawn breaks over Marblehead..   Thanks
    
    Where does one get capstan jacks?
    
    

    This is secondhand, so not much help beyond knowing it's possible.  Some
    freinds with a cabin in Maine jacked it up as described, and poured a
    basement.  They had enough space to get underneath, and dug more space
    while the house was jacked up.

    One thing to note when you're that close to the water.  Many states are
    very strict about what you're allowed to do to buildings that near the
    water.  You may want to check to be sure that this work doesn't somehow
    make your building eligible for demolition...

    I had a house jacked up and a full foundation poured under it.  It was
    a 30x24 "L" shape the way they did it was to dig under it enough to 
    slide "I" beams on eway under it then "I" beams in under the other way
    and under the first set, like a big tic-tac-toe diagram they put
    hydrolic jacks under each "I" beam end and up she went.  they dug out
    the foundation hole with a Bobcat, they pouted the foundation to within
    one cement blocks height of the sills, finished the foundation off with
    cement blocks leaving out the ones where the "I" beams were lowered the
    house about an inch.  The house now rested on the cement blocks, they
    slid out the "I" beams and put in 4 cement blocks and that was it.  It
    is much easier to write about it than it is to do but it is done all
    the time.  My place was on Cape Cod and fortunately I was far enough
    away from the water to avoid the EPD, and DEQE.
    
    Give me a call if you have any questions.
    
    Paul 

    I trust these were the solid cement blocks...
    
    About how much did the job cost?  How long did it take?
    
    Bob

    
    re.4 (capstan-style jack)
    
    I couldn't find out what they are called over here, but I know
    that they are available because I saw one holding up a shaky porch in
    the Shaker village this week.
    
    The jack has a low profile - designed for short lifts where
    working space is limited.  The nut is massive and has holes where you
    insert a bar and turn - just like a capstan. Try a rental shop?
    
    good luck with the lift.
    
    C.
    
    

    I responce to Bob (.7).
    
    No, they were just regular cement blocks with the hole.
    
    The original cost was $16,800 including all materials and excavation
    and back filling.  After things got underway the contractor said if
    we put "I" beams in under the existing wood greters it would eliminate
    5 lolly columns down the center of the cellar which the architect had
    put on the plans, what a great suggestion the cellar is open and
    there is all unobstructed room down there.  We had to get a welder for
    a day and the "I" beams so the final price was $17,300.
    
    It took about 2 weeks it would have been only 1 1/2 weeks but it rained
    like mad for 3 days which put the schedule out a couple days.  
    
    I think I put the contractors name in note 2000 under foundations,
    if it is not there let me know and I will get the number for you, hte
    guys name was Ken KLINE, a real gentleman, good worker, no BS with him.
    
    Paul

    I did put Kens name in 2000.  It is in 2007.28, my DTN has changed
    since then to 232-2587.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Paul

    The camp is rustic and in Wolfeboro NH.. 17 - 20 K improvements would
    be like putting a silk hat on a pig... I think I'll jack it myself.
    
    I'm surprised that reular cement blocks were used... I've seen them
    crush (as in never work on a car suspended by blocks).
    
    Thanks all for your assistance.
    
    Bob

re .11:

>    I'm surprised that reular cement blocks were used... I've seen them
>    crush (as in never work on a car suspended by blocks).

Concrete is _very_ strong in compression, but rather weak in tension (unless
reinforced).  A concrete block supporting a building with its holes vertical
is entirely in compression and will have no problem supporting it.  Until
fairly recently, nearly all house foundations were made of concrete blocks
with the holes.

If the holes are horizontal, there will be little bridges formed.  If the
load is placed on the bridges, the bridge is in tension, and may not be able
to support the load.  That's why you should never attempt to support a car
with a concrete block with the holes horizontal.

-Mike

    
    It wasn't until I moved to NH that I saw extensive use of poured walls.
    In Upstate NY all you find is cement blocks for cellar walls. I'd say
    99% of the cellar walls in Upsate NY are cement blocks.
    
    Mike

re .11:

>    I'm surprised that regular cement blocks were used... I've seen them
>    crush (as in never work on a car suspended by blocks).

      There are different qualities of "cement blocks".  I don't know if
      it is a technically different  product  or  just  a  cheap  cement
      block,  but there are also what are called "cinder blocks".  These
      would be likely to crumble under a heavy load.
      
      Good quality cement blocks can be used as a foundation, laid right
      on the footings instead of a poured concrete foundation.  In  some
      parts  of  the  country this is the norm for residential and light
      commercial construction.  A poured foundation may be aesthetically
      more   pleasing   to   some,   but   concrete  block  is  entirely
      satisfactory.  There are some arguments to the effect that  it  is
      easier  to  get  a  perfectly plumb, straight and level foundation
      with blocks than with poured concrete.
      
      Both  systems  have  advantages.   What your home has is more than
      likely  a  matter  of  local  practice  than  of   any   objective
      considerations.

    I looked at a house for sale today that is approx. 70 years old,
    and it is built on ledge -- i.e., half of the cellar is ledge --
    kind of like a rock ledge in half the basement.  
    
    What's the effect of this?  The owner does have a sump pump in part
    of the basement and says there is some leakage into the cellar in 
    heavy rains, in just one corner, which, he says, the sump pump takes
    care of.  
    
    My question is, if the foundation was poured/built around the ledge,
    how good is the "seal" between where the foundation meets the ledge?
    How is this usually built?
    
    Other than esthetics, what are the drawbacks of the house being built
    right into the ledge?  A few replies here mention radon -- why are the
    chances for radon higher with ledge?
    
    Any comments would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks.
    
    Carol
    

    
    Just make a passing RADON test part of the P & S.
    

    Over 1/2 my house sits on ledge. Predictably, there is one small leak
    in the cellar, but a drain has taken care of it for over 30 years with
    no problems. Water comes in, water goes out.
    
    My house doesn't seem to settle. No cracks in the plaster, no leaks
    developing, no foundation problems (save the above).
    
    Pardon the pun, but it seems solid as a rock.
    
    Edd

    I had a house where 1/2 was on a ledge that extended INSIDE the
    basement (it WAS a conversation piece). Other than giving me a
    strange looking floor, it caused no other problems.
    
    Eric

    About half of my house is also on ledge. House was built around 1830,
    and still standing. Only problem with ledge is if its in your leach
    area of your septic system.
    
    Marc H.

re: 904.21                   How Do I Find Ledge?                      21 of 21
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                           -< Solid basement Floor >-
>About half of my house is also on ledge. House was built around 1830,
>and still standing. Only problem with ledge is if its in your leach
>area of your septic system.

Ditto ledgey area ...

The only major hassle with a house on ledge is "IF" you ever need to dig a 
trench TO the house ... I  had to replace a water pipe, and to do it, the
contractor had to get an extra large backhoe to get through the field
of rocks.

The house is "somewhat over" 150 years old, and generally speaking is still
square. Whether or not it was square when built, or has gone a little
bit out of square over time is not known.

During major rain storms, water comes in through the south side of
the field stone foundation, an goes out the northeast corner through
a cellar drain (the previous owner even cemented a shallow trough to expedite
this (I am on city sewer/water, so the septic caution doesn't apply).

re: Radon
Radon is more prevalent with Cement or sealed-up foundations.

Bob

re .22:
>re: Radon
>Radon is more prevalent with Cement or sealed-up foundations.

Whether you have Radon depends on several things:

The type of rock under you (granite often has uranium, therefore radon)
A path from this rock to your basement.  This means cracks in cement
and the rocks, or dirt.

Once radon is in the basement, how long does it hang around before it gets
out.  Ventilation helps.

If you have a well-sealed basement, radon can't get in and you'll have a
low radon reading.  A rock in the basement is likely to have lots of cracks,
and it itself may be the source of the radon.  A cement foundation is better
than rock, or a dirt floor basement.

-Mike

    I looked for this topic under foundations, concrete, and adhesives 
    and could not find it.  
    
    I would like to stucco my foundation.  I put an addition on
    with a full cellar, and the original house has a stucco on
    the foundation, which does not match the new part.  
    
    Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?  Where to buy
    materials etc?  Is it something I could do myself?  
    
    Any info appreciated.
    
      

    I used a stucco type product to cover the foundation insulation that
    was exposed above grade. I think the product name was Drive-It?? It's
    a mortar based powder with ~ 2" fiberglas hairs and you mix it with a 
    latex bonding agent. It or something similar should be available a your
    local masonry supply house. 
    It's applied with a grout type (square shaped) trowel. It got harder to
    apply as the temperature rose and we were working in the sun. It
    should be a good DIY job on an overcast day. Your only problem will be
    matching the color and texture to what you got. You may have to give
    everything a fresh coat.
    One more after thought, I applied it to styrofoam insulation, to get it
    to hold you might have to apply it to wire mesh fastened to the bare
    cement of the additions foundation??
    
    /Jim

    
    I used the stuff mentioned in .1 in order to cover up the difference
    between the old cinder-block foundation and the poured concrete
    foundation of an addition.  The look I wanted wasn't the "swirly"
    stucco look but just that of plain concrete, so I'm not sure how
    well it would work for the look you want.
    
    As .1 says, you have to be careful not to let the stuff dry out.
    And be sure to soak the surface with water before you apply it.
    
    JP

    Thanks so much for the info, especially about doing it on an
    overcast day.  I was planning on doing it on a nice sunny day!
    

Help. anybody know where I can buy the styrofoam blocks as shown on TOH. I'm
in the process of digging out my celler (yes by hand) and I have a couple of 
walls to put up.

Thanks
Paul

    I had a problem this past weekend with a leak.  It may sound like a 
    "NO PROBLEM" type of question but it is.  It seems that the guy who
    built the deck off the back of the house took the easy way out.  He
    nailed a long board to the side off the house and built the deck off of
    that.  Well here it goes with the problem....Seems that on warmer days,
    the ice/snow melts off the desk and drips down behind this board and
    seems to somehow work its way between the foundation and house.  It
    then freezes, possible allowing more water to come in a freeze up. 
    Along the wall of the house runs the forced, hot water pipe that heats
    our home.  This is melting the ice, thus causing the leak.  It was
    quite a bit of ice as well.  It filled a 32 gallon trash barrel about
    1 1/2".  I have since cleared off the snow/ice from the deck and the
    leak stopped.  Is there anything out on the market today that I can use
    to seal around the foundation area to prevent this from happening
    again.  This is a first home for my wife and I and I would like to hold
    onto it for a while.  I do have to replace a section of sheetrock that
    the drip destroyed.  Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kevin
    
    

    
    Sounds like it wasn't flashed or improperly flashed at best. Shoveling
    the deck after storms will help in the mean time but it needs to be
    reflashed or your going to get rot, ants etc. Do you have some kind
    of homeowners warrantee on the purchase of the house?  Ie, new house
    bought from a builder or something along those lines. Get them to
    fix it. If your not able to go that route maybe your household
    insurance will cover the repairs and theater damage. 
    
    	Either way the deck needs to be flashed or reflashed whatever the case
    may be.
                                       
    

    RE:.0

    	It sounds like they angled the deck towards the house instead of
    away from it.  The water should be running to the outside edge of the
    deck and falling off, not towards the house.  When the weather permits
    I'd shorten the outside legs that hold up the deck so the water will run
    the other way.

    Joe

    Re .1  
    
    No there is no warrenty.  I purchased the home from the person who had
    it built 4 years ago.  I also check my Home Owners policy and this type
    of problem is not covered by METPAY.  Figures.  
    
    Re .2 
    
    I will look into your suggestion in the spring.
    
    If I were to just caulk where the house sits on the foundation, would
    this help in preventing rotting????
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kevin

    
    Hey Kevin! I have the same deal, deck nailed to house, leaks into the
    basement on the inside.
    
    I plan to caulk when it gets warm enough to go outside.
    
    Simon

    
    
    Ok, look like good place to form this note...
    
    
    I"m in process of thinking of getting into another fixmeup house.
    I've notice the foundation has some major cracks on one side.  After
    the last rain storm I found out way....No Perif drain, water backup
    and presto.  H2O pressure=Crack!
    
    Seeing I have to dig around the foundation and put a drain in, Via 
    local codes...I'd like to pin and pour another wall in front of
    the old one.  Has anyone done anything like this??
    
    JD

    RE: .46
    
    How will you hold the forms for the new wall? Most foundation people
    need quite a bit of space on both sides for the forms.
    
    
    Using exterior boards to brace the forms will not work.
    
    Marc H.

    rep:
    
    Well, drilling thru the old foundation and putting in thur
    bolts to hold the forms...
    
    ---------------------------T---------    existing wall
                               |
    ===========================|=========
    ------------||-------------L------||-    new wall
                                pin.   spacing block
    
    I"M hoping that I wont have to do an 8" wall seeing it not
    a load bearing wall.  Just a patch.  Don't know.  Think it will fly?
    
    JD

    What are you trying to achieve?  If the old wall cracked, the new
    wall will probably crack.  Concrete is very weak in tension.
    In compression it's great, but if you're thinking of pouring this
    new wall to somehow tie the old wall together, it's almost
    certainly not going to work.

    
    
    I cant see way not?  The Idea is to make one large patch.  The reason
    the wall cracked in the first place is due to lack of drainage,
    the water behind the wall had to go somewhere and it found the
    weakest spots.
    A new footing.  Bonding the new wall to the old and periferal 
    drain added, why wouldnt it work?
    
    The other way is to open up the cracked sections, drill some rods into
    the open cracks.  Make a form and fill it...   To me, this looks like
    it would take longer???
    
    JD 

    Why not just slop some sort of goo on the outside while you're putting the
    drain in?  That'll keep the moisture down.

    Or are the cracks severe enough that you have to do something to
    satisfy the inspector that the house will stay up?

    
    Re;
    Most of it is for my own POM.   But on one corner of the
    house there is a rather large scale fracture.  So I figured
    for a few bucks more, i'll seal the full 50' with concreat,
    Tar it and be done!   But this could very well change after
    I open the dirt up and get a few quotes........
    
    JD

        Hi

		- If there is a better place for this note -
		- please let me know and I will move it    _


        I have a 90+ year old colonial with 2 additions.  One of the additions
	is on a slab.  The other is a problem - it is an old screened in porch
        that is built out of 2x? lumber and supported on a row of cinder blocks.
        I would like to replace the cinder block foundation with 'regular'
        foundation and add a powder room.  Heres a diagram:

    |                           Main House                                    |
    |                                                                         |
    +---+----------------------------+ Doorway  +---------+ Doorway +-------+-+
        |                                       |||                         |
        |                                       |||                         |
        |                                       |||<- steps down            |
        |                                       |||                         |
        |                                       |||                         |
        |                                       |||                         |
        |                                       |||                         |
        |                                       |||                         |
        |       Slab Foundation                 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        |                                       |       ^
        |                                       |       |
        +---------------------------------------+       Row of Cinder Blocks

        The approximate measurements are:

        Slab Portion    10x20
        Old Porch       8x10

        In the course of this effort I suspect that I will need to redo the 
	framing under the old porch.

        I know this will be a big project - Can someone walk me through the
        steps so that I can get a clearer picture of just what it will
        take.

        thanks in advance

        tom

    Hi,
    
    	Well there are two general approaches to you problem.  The
    first would be to remove the old porch, install you foundation and
    rebuild from scratch.  This has the advantages of ease of access for
    the foundation work and providing a known good structure.
    
    	The second option is to support the porch several feet away from
    the foundation, dig and instal the foundation and lower the porch onto
    the new base.
    
    	From your description, I would lean toward option #1.  It may
    cost a bit more, but the foundation will be easier to install and
    you may correct a couple unseen problems.  Secondly, your description
    of 2x4 framing leads me to suspect that the porch may not meet code
    as a living space.
    
    			 Just my 2 cents,
    				
    				DanF

	I should have been more specific.

	What was the old porch is now winterized living space. 

	Siding, windows and insulation.

	tom

    
    
    Sounds like you have to support the structure and
    dig out from under it.  $$$$$   Better start checking
    into prices......
    
    JD

    
    
    	I have a foundation_under_add_on_porch question.  ANy advice is
    	welcome.
    
    	I put an offer in on a house, and we agreed to the price.  Had the
    inspection done (used Paul Cornell who was great and it just so happens
    he got his inspection license under the guidance of my brother who
    teaches code/inspection stuff.)   Paul found, of course, 1000 little
    things, but the big thing (and what concerns us) is that the foundation
    wall under the add-on porch (now a 4-season sunroom) is a mess.  
    
    It is a cinder-block foundation and the blocks are all over the place
    on two walls: back and side.   This area is used as a garage.  The
    walls are partially underground.  To be fixed correctly, Paul said we'd
    need to excavate, re-align the blocks, re-point, add drainage, and then
    put the dirt back against the foundation.  His estimate: $8500.  Or we
    could tear down or support the porch, dig, pour a cement foundation and
    get rid of the bricks (which apparently aren't code-sized anyway.
    They're something-by-8s and should have been something-by-12s.) Again,
    an expensive option. 
    
    Owners choke on the price, and get a contractor (mason) in to look at
    the work that needs to be done.  Their contract says he can fix this 
    problem for $1000. 
    
    We are probably going to get ANOTHER contractor to have a look, since
    my guess is that the $1K estimate will pretty up the foundation but not
    fix the problem, and the same thing will happen again in a few years. 
    BUT, my questions are, what seems reasonable?  Are we being too picky by
    insisting on another contract to see what s/he thinks?  Is this a big
    deal (since it's only the porch foundation, not the house foundation?)
    Has anyone had work like this done and can tell me if $8500 is closer
    to the right price or is $1000?  
    
    And lastly, does anyone know a good foundation expert? :-)
    
    	Thanks,
    
    	Justine
                                                            

    Justine,
    
    	I'll answer your question by asking a question: Is 7500 a big deal
    to *you*?  Don't worry about the feelings of the current owners, do
    whatever is necessary to protect yourself.
    
    Charlie - who hates learning the hard way.

    
      Justine - If the blocks have been pushed around by frost etc.,
    outside, then I can't think of any right way to fix them then to
    excavate at least down as far as they have been moved, remove, clean,
    remortar and reinstall. That said, unless its a fairly small area, I
    can't imagine a decent mason charging anywhere near as low as 1K for
    it. Paul C. is not dumb and he saw it, not me. If he says 8K, then I
    would not think anything lower than 4 or 5K would do the same job Paul
    was talking about. My guess is that the mason that gave the 1K
    estimate would do his work solely from the inside. Perhaps just
    repointing the blocks.
    
    				Kenny

    	My first step would be to call the contractor that gave the $1k
    quote and find out how he intended to fix the problem. There's no rule
    that says you can't ask him ;-)
    
    	If after talking to him/her you find that they are treating the
    symptom and not the problem, you can simply ask them what it is that
    makes them think the problem won't return after their proposed fix.
    
    	It usually costs nothing to get people in to give you a quote. In
    the process, you'll get an idea from them what their proposed fix is
    and why the problem happened in the first place.
    
    	After getting a few quotes and sleeping on it for a night or two, 
    you'll probably have a much better idea of how to handle it. If the clock 
    is ticking down on a go/no go situation, I'd at least look at getting an
    extension based on this finding. 
    
    	A real estate deal is almost always set up that the sale is contingent 
    upon passing a home inspection. At this point, it depends on how badly you 
    want to buy this place and/or how badly the owner wants to sell it. It 
    also depends on whether the current owner can afford to fix it to your
    specifications. You can't squeeze blood out of a stone.
    
    	Ray

    
    
    	Thanks for all the opinions/suggestions.
    
    	The blocks of the foundation have come otu of line in rows. So the 
    	first row, at the bottom, is in place.  But above that it looks
    	like inverted stairs.  Apparently, from what we can gather, the
    	$1000 estimate guy is only going to put blocks UNDER the blocks 
    	jutting out, making a thicker wall (and thus making the garage 
    	even NARROWER.)  This isn't acceptable to us.  So we'll be getting
        a contractor to give us another estimate, but unless we can
    	convince the owners that we want this fixed RIGHT, I guess we'll 
    	be looking for houses again.  Blah.
    
    	Thanks again, everyone.
    
    	Justine
               

    	Just as an aside, I've seen prefabed two-car garages for $8500 not
    including the slab.
    
    	Ray

    
    
    	Where?  Because putting in a REAL two car garage is in th eplans. 
    	Someday.
    
    	Justine
    
    	P.s. - Two more contractor estimates.  one said sight unseen, he
    thinks it would be $3-$4K to fix.  One said he needs to see it, but
    anywhere between $1000 and $8500 depending on how correctly we want it
    fixed!  :-)  

    	The prefab I saw (about 2 months ago) was on Rt. 28 in Hookset, NH.
    I don't remember the name of the place but it's on the left hand side
    of the road coming off Rt. 93 heading into Hookset. It's not too far after 
    the first light (within a mile) if I remember right.
    
    	They also sell prefab homes too. They had both out on display. I
    remember the garage because it had a huge $8500 price tag on it and I
    remember thinking that it was almost as cheap as the ones that the big
    lumber places sell in kit form.
    
    	Ray

	re: $8500 pre-fab

	I got a quote of about $15,000 for a 2-car garage, including slab,
	electrical, roofing, widening my driveway, and taking out a few
	trees. This with special siding. A pre-fab unit for $8500 is about
	in line with that, I think. But it doesn't sound like anything
	special.

	Roy

    We had to replace about 1/3 of the foundation of our house.  We knew
    about the problems when we bougth the house.  The owners had to come up
    with an estimate and we had to come up with one.  The owner was very
    happy when I told her our estimate was 8, she said her's was 850.  She
    was then very unhappy when I told her my 8 was 8000 not 800.  Her
    estimate was to repoint and shore up the foundation (similar to your
    garage).  My estimate was to replace the foundation.  She then got a
    real estimate which was 7500.
    
    Rhonda

    
    	re -1:
    
    	Your experience sounds a lot like ours.  The owner for this place
    ended up taking some money off, but it was like pulling teeth.  I
    wondered if the owners wanted us to walk away so they could fix it for
    $1000 and not have to worry about it the next time someone made an
    offer.  
    
    	Oh well, all's well that ends well, I guess.  Now onto the
    paint-removinng note, and the roof replacement note, and the...
    
    	Justine
            

Any thoughts on pouring a foundation in cold weather.  My builder
is ready to pour, but the building permit is caught up in red tape.
I'm getting nervous about pouring it in such cold weather.  He says:

    o they mix with hot water this time of year
    o if below freezing they add calcium
    o hardening cement produces heat 

Should we wait till spring?

    
          Mine was poured just around the same time (mid Nov) and we have 
    had no problems with it. I was worried also but they told me the same
    as your bullets.
    
        o if below freezing they add calcium
        o hardening cement produces heat
    
     Do not know if they mix with warm h2o
                                               Another foundation in our 
    development was poured in lat Dec...No problem there either
    
                     Wayne

You can pour without worry until temperatures are consistently below freezing
and frost sets into the ground.  This time of year has one advantage in that
with the cooler temperatures the concrete cures slower which is a better cure.
Just insure that your contractor/sub-contractor leaves the forms up an extra 
day or so to accommodate the slower cure and doesn't begin attaching the sills 
and framing too soon for the same reason.

-jw

    Any foundation can be poured in cold weather with the expectation
    of a trouble-free foundation.  However, if cost if of concern, they
    charge extra for both heater water and calcium.  You may want to check
    on the added cost.
    
    On the other hand, this is a great time of year to pour.  The backfill
    process should be done within a few days after pouring (after sealing
    of the cement walls and applying any required foundation insultation).
    Working around a newly poured foundation is easy this late in the year
    as the surface dirt becomes firm seen and simply planting Rye grass
    will result in green grass in spring.
    

    RE: .0
    
    I would wait till the spring. The calcium weakens the concrete;
    although the foundation design is "over engineered".
    
    Just because they often add antifreezes/calcium/etc. doesn't make it
    right.
    
    Marc H.

    One more vote for do it now. I believe 'too cold' only applies when it
    is REALLY cold - multi-days of single digit. THIS is not cold.

    I agree - it's not REALLY cold.  Concrete gives off heat as it's
    curing, so if you cover the concrete with tarps at night (or,
    ideally, with some sort of insulator such as loose hay), I
    don't see why you'd have a problem.
    

    I went through this last year, and ended up getting my foundation
    poured in December, though during a warm week.  My brother is a
    structural engineer and deals with concrete and curing etc.  He told us
    that YOU NEED TO BE SURE THE CONCRETE DOESN'T FREEZE BEFORE CURING.  If 
    it freezes before curing it can become very weak, and can easily crack
    and/or crumble later.  This is most likely if it is well below freezing
    throughout the curing.  With marginal temps, the concrete can weaken
    and crack in the future.  The cracks may not cause structural problems,
    especially since residential foundations are usually overdesigned, but 
    can let water in and can be unattractive.  
    
    If the temp is above or right about at freezing there shouldn't be a
    problem (though you should allow longer curing time before putting
    loads on it, ie. framing).  But if the temp will be below freezing you
    have a few options, all of which have been used but may cost different
    amounts of $$:
    
    	1. If not well below freezing, you can cover the poured  concrete
    	   with hay or blankets (our builder ended up using hay and Calcium).  
           The curing concrete generates heat, and the blankets or hay help to
    	   hold the heat in longer. ($)
    
        2. You can have a tent set up over the concrete, and use heaters to
    	   keep the temp inside the temp above freezing.  ($$$$)
    
        3. You can add a calcium type product (there are a few different
           ones), which is what most builders do.  This does somewhat
           weaken the concrete, but again residential foundations are usually
           overdesigned so the house shouldn't fall down.  But again, you
           are more susceptable to cracking.  You may want to get a written 
    	   guarantee from the builder that he/she will repair/fill & seal
           any cracks and/or damage caused as a byproduct of any cracks that 
    	   show up the first year.  (little to no extra $)
    
    If you are decide that you definitely want to get it poured this year
    during freezing weather, you should do one of the above, as the
    possible problems are much less that the problems you'll have if the
    concrete is allowed to freeze during curing.  
    
    
    FWIW based on our recent research...
    

    
    I poured in snow, yep they add calcium I have the burns still to prove
    it! Wear gloves, top to bottom, and rubber boots. I was also told to
    put heating blankets around the walls, but the weather heated up the next 
    day so I didn't bother with the blankets.
    
    The main thing is to not pour on frozen ground, as it'll thaw and move
    and crack you're walls. Since it was snowing when I poured, and not
    before, I was OK.
    
    Simon

...and I can't wait for Spring to begin building...

The contractor suggested that I not have the floor poured and left over the
winter. I just had a load of gravel delivered today to spread so the car dosen't
sit on the bare ground.

Chris

Thanks for all the replys.

A late update:

We were still wading through red tape at the end of December so I 
postponed it till spring.  The red tape cleared in mid January. The 
builder is gonna spend mud season getting the road up to snuff and
hopefully pour the foundation around April 1st.  This will also avoid
a cement truck that just sinks in the mud.  Occupancy is scheduled for
mid June.  I'll be happy if we're in at the end of July.  Don't wanna 
rush things, but we got offspring #3 arriving in August.

bill

    Has anyone had a foundation put in lately? I am looking to have a
    sunroom attached to the house with a cement foundation. It would
    be full depth. 
                           |-------|
     18' x 14' x 18'       |       |
                           | sun   |
                           | room  |
                           |       |
                  --------------------
                  |                  |
                  |      house       |
    
    
    I am wondering on the cost.
    
    Ed
    
    

If you can specify exactly what you want in terms of all dimensions for
footings plus walls, as well as test strength, rebar requirements, etc.,
any foundation contractor will be happy to give you a free estimate.
Do you also need costs for the associated site work (excavation, foundation
drains, etc.)?

-Jack

    I had a foundation /excavator stop buy this past weekend. He is going
    to call me with a price. He told me the price of labor for the
    foundation runs $9.00 per linear foot, plus $55.00 per square yard of
    cement, plus excavation. I will have a price this week.
    
    thanks,
    Ed

    Well I got "2" prices for my 18 x 14 x 18 foot foundation. 4' wall x 7'
    wall x 7' wall with footings.
       conractor:  #1 $2,547.00  hole & foundation
      
                   #2 $1,597.00  foundation
                      $  300.00  hole
                      ---------
                      $1,897.00  hole & foundation
    
    And the winner is!!
    

>    Well I got "2" prices for my 18 x 14 x 18 foot foundation. 4' wall x 7'
>    wall x 7' wall with footings.

	Are both contractors specifying the same building quality for things
	other than basic dimensions and wall thickness? For example, how
	much rebar will be used? From what I've been told, there can be a
	great difference in the amount of rebar used from contractor to
	contractor, and this can make a big difference in the ability of the
	foundation to resist cracking in the long run.

	Roy

    I'll have to call and check. I had a third quote for just the
    foundation and it was $1600.00 so two were close. The contractor
    charging me the higher price did not break it down into foundation and
    excavation.
    
    Any other things I might want to ask?
    thanks,
    Ed

I have no idea if this is valid but maybe ask about the grade of cement,
additives they use and stuff.  Is it possible to use cheaper "grades" of 
cement?

George

    
    There are different strengths you can order.  Their are standard
    rating of, so many PSI that a wall  or floor has to be.  So if  their
    cutting it,  you getting a clipping!
    
    JD

    I couldn't find a note on installing a door into a concrete
    block foundation so I try posting it here.
    
    
    I have had Jeff bear (recommended here) quote me
    on installing a steel door in my foundation. It involves
    removing blocks under the existing window and inserting
    a steel, steel frame, nine light masonry door.
    
    Me problem is he is quoting me $550 for a 36 inch
    masonry door and and summerville lumber says they
    can get it for 389. I told him to buy it
    from sommerville but he tells me its not the
    right typ of door but the guy at (the door manager)
    tells me it is!
    
    Could some describe exactly what I need to order to get
    a 36inch, 9 light, prehung, steel door, with steel masonry
    frame (to be attached right to the foundation - no presure
    treated wood framing required).   I need to be sure
    to order everything to compare pricing.
    

    depending on where its location is, Maybe your contractor
    feels that the door he's getting has a much heavier steel
    frame than the one at summerville....?????  Have you
    compaired his door to yours????
    
    jd
    

    Dont know I guess I should ask him to send me a copy
    of his order form and then I can shop around for a better
    price if in fact one exists.
    
    -B

    I have a question about foundations and the sills and floor joist. I am
    willing to bet that both sides of the foundation are not of equal
    heights. Do contractors level the joist and sub-floor some how or do
    they simple go by what's there?
    
    If I am confusing you, what I mean is if you add an addition to your
    house and the two sides of the foundation that join to your house are
    off from the existing house foundation. One cement wall is 1/4 inch
    higher than the other side. A contractor told me he uses a double sill
    so he can us shimes if the floor is not level. Anyone ever do this?
    
    |       house       |
    |                   |
    ---------------------
other -> |             | <- 1/4" lower than other side
         |             |
         |             |
         |  addition   |
         |             |
         |             |
         ---------------
                        
    
    

    The foundation was poured with a double sill in mind so there will be
    one no matter what. I looked at a contractor book which talked about
    putting motar on the low side to raise it up.
    
    Do you know what other methods are used for siming?
    
    thanks                            
    

    
    Your base note says only that the new foundation is 1/4" off as
    compared with the old one. Could it be the old foundation that is not
    level?
    
    There are products that let you fill or re-level concrete (Levelastic
    is the brand name of one), so you might look through the various
    concrete topics for more info on that.
    
    JP

    
    
    	I have to replace the sill on the house part of the "Diner".
    	I have dug down about a foot to where the foundation meets
    	the sill, yes, it is below ground level.
    
    	My question is on jacking the house.
    
    	* How far apart should the jacks be placed?
    
    	* Should I jack up the whole corner or just where the sill
    	  to be replaced resides?
    
    	Thanks!
    
    	/Andy

    
    Just jack up the section you need to have replaced.  1/8" over
    just to releave the pressure.  Knock it out and put in the new section.
    I assume your using 2 jacks, so place them about a 1/3 of the distance
    from each end.
    
    JD

    
    re: "Jacking the house"
    
    Does this mean that you are going to literally lift the house off of
    the foundation (like you would a car off the ground)?  This is an
    interesting concept and would really be something to behold!
    
    Dennis
    

    
    its nothing major Dennis.  Your just jacking it up high enought to
    take the pressure off the plate so it can be removed.  
    Now if you had seem me take out the first floor walls exterior walls
    of my house and restud them.  Them you might have seen something
    of interest! 
    
    JD
    

re .19:

If you think that's interesting you should see what was done to a cottage
next door to my father's.  It was originally on footings that were
deteriorating.  The whole place was jacked up about 5 feet and a complete
lower level/basement was added underneath it, now it's a 2 story house.

-Mike

I'm going to be installing a steel door (standard casing) in a concrete
foundation opening - the opening is going to be expanded to fit a larger
(higher and wider) door).  I expect to go the standard route of attaching
2x4s to the concrete and nailing the door to those - are there special
considerations I should be aware of?  I saw a mention of the use of PT
lumber - is this required?  The door won't be exposed to the weather.

Clearly I can't use big nails to attach the door, but I'd like some of the
anchoring to be into the foundation wall and not just the 2x4.  What do I
use?

				Steve

    I had door cut / installed in my 12" block foundation.
    I chose to go with a steel frame , steel door and 
    had it installed by a mason. The labor was $300.
    That included cutting the opening under and
    existing basement window. Installing the steel door
    frame (cemented to the wall, its SUPER solid)
    building a thresold/step and re-"stuccoing"
    the exterior foundation.
    
    I bought the steel door, 9 light insulated
    with full steel jamb at arlwood in Woburn Ma.
    
    This is not the cheap way to go...
    

    ...or else buy the pressure-treated wood in advance and let it sit
    for about three months.  I built a new back for my pickup truck out
    of PT wood last year and the shrinkage was astounding.  But, most
    of the shrinkage occurred in the first few weeks, once it was out
    in the sun all day.

     My advice would be to use the PT but to either build to allow
    for shrinkage or see if you could find some PT that had a low
    moisture content to begin with. Anyone you know have a moisture
    meter?
     Not only is PT known for it's decay resistance, but it is also
    pest resistant. When buying my house the home inspection discovered
    termites had chewed their way into the house through the walk-out
    basement doorway(framed with untreated 2x) and had begun eating the
    floor joists just inside the doorway.
    
    FWIW
    Bob

    Well, it seems a bit silly to use PT for the door when there's so much
    non-PT wood on the sill, etc.
    
    				Steve

     Not silly when you consider that my sill, etc., are a minimum of
    four feet from ground contact but that the door frame is at ground
    level making for much easier(and less visualy detectable) termite entry.
     
    regards,
    	Bob   

    I put a pre-hung steel door in my bulkhead entry.
    I used PT wood and yes, it did shrink.  I caulked the gap later. 
    
    I used a construction adhesive on the boards against the wall, (a
    couple short boards wedged in the opening did the "clamping") then
    drove some masonary nails thru the boards into the wall.  Then attached 
    everything else to that.
    
    	Dave.

    	Just a thought, but maybe sealing the PT before use might help
    minimize the shrinkage.
    
    	Ray

    
    .14
    
    That's a mistake that I already made!  
    
    One thing that might make the work go faster is to use a
    powder-actuated nailer for fixing the frame to the concrete.  Works
    great for floor sleepers and framing.
    
    Colin
    
    
    
    

    Well, Steve, when I was putting in some storage, what I did was to
    attatch PT 2x4s to the foundation using some lag bolts and anchors, and
    attatched my racks to them.  I don't think I had to countersink the
    bolt heads, though, which would be necessary in your case.
    
    Dick

I'm at the "conceptual" stage of planning a two room addition to our home.
Originally, we were thinking of a one-story 24 x 16 addition. We're
leaning towards using piers / sona tubes for the foundation because of the
ledge on our property, and to help keep costs down. The existing house is
built on concrete piers, and has a crawl space.

After checking out our town's setback requirements, we need to reduce the 
width  from 24 ft. to 12 ft. Is building "up" an option when using sona tubes
as a foundation? Do sona tubes have the load bearing capacity to handle
a two-story 12 x 16 structure? The addition would be two bedrooms.

Thanks for any input!
 Dave

  2607  CIMNET::GOSSELIN      1-SEP-1988     6  sona tubes vs foundation
  1135  TWOBOS::LAFOSSE      14-MAY-1987     3  Sona tubes right up to joists, or use 4x4 posts?

    "It all depends."  It depends on the diameter of the tubes, how many
    you use, what kind of soil you're going into, what grade of concrete
    it is, whether you put footings under the tubes, what size footings,
    and probably a bunch of other stuff.  I think you probably need to 
    get a structural engineer if you want a definitive answer.
    
    I would guess that a competent structural engineer could come up with
    a sonotube design that would work.  Before you go that route though,
    make sure you're going to save enough money to make it worth the
    effort.
    

Hi,

I found water in my basement floor last night. It looked like water sipped
through the basement cement floor (I always thought cement was a water-proof
thing before.). I have my friend checked the foundation area by the leaking
basement today. He found that there was a vertical crack line several 
feet long along the foundation wall.  My friend kept digging the soil following
the crack until he reached the basement floor-line. So the crack is
at least a floor high long.   

Well, My guess is you buy some kind of water-proof cements and
seal up the crack (more digging until you see the end of the crack ?), right?
I thought I would post the message asking for some advices first.

Any suggestions and experience sharing will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

-Shuhua

These should help.  Helped me.  I too found a leak in foundation wall this weekend.
Some of these are quite old, but probably still valid.  657 was helpful.


           <<< 12DOT2::NOTES$STUFF:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Home_work >-
================================================================================
Note 1111.12  Home_work keyword directory - see reply #1 for details   12 of 113
EVMS::PAULKM::WEISS "Trade freedom for security-los" 41 lines  27-OCT-1991 17:05
                          -< BASEMENT-WATERPROOFING >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Topic  Repl  Title
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    50     3  Vapor barrier under concrete floor or under sleepers?
   149     4  Ventilating a crawl space
   150    58  Water in the Basement ?
   169    12  Help sealing outside from inside...
   178     9  Basement sealer - bentonite
   240     6  Water in basement
   277     2  Wet spot on basement floor!
   657     9  Foundation leak
   662    22  Sump Pumps?
   663     8  Fireplace leaking rain
   664     1  Sump Pump Blues
   665     3  Friday's water woes
   671    11  I hate my basement!
   779     1  City water with free ground water bonus
   819     4  Water up through basement floor
   893    35  New Build water in the basement. Help!!!
   961     2  Need some information on bentonite.
   987     8  Wet basements one more time...
   996     4  The water table ???
  1056     9  Sealing a bulkhead?
  1107    14  Water problems - chimney and slab
  1215     2  Seal a french Drain?
  1349    12  New house & damp basement!!
  1404    12  Bulkhead door leaking (formerly titled: "LEAK!")
  1467     8  Water from sump pump - where should it go?
  1503     6  Fountain in foyer
  1515     3  Water-proofing a bulkhead
  1516    23  Leaky foundation pins
  1731     3  Sealing underground chamber
  1896     1  Questions on a Hot Tub room
  1926     0  DAMTITE sealant okay?
  2165    19  Need advice for sump pump
  2215     5  Water barrior in concrete floors
  2280    61  Basement humidity - keeping it out?
  2743     1  Porch leaking into Basement
  2864    43  Concrete Sealing Recommendations?
  2877     2  concrete slab puts water in house
  3061     1  Flood Plane Foundations
  3176     3  Crack in Sump Hole

    
    Just a comment, cement is not waterproof.  Cement is a somewhat porous
    agregate material and will absorb water rather readily.  It can be
    sealed with various products to close the pores and inhibit water
    absorption.
    
    A read through some of the notes mentioned in -.1 should help you
    resolve your problem.  Good luck....
    
    Stu

    It sounds as though you're doing at least one thing right: you're
    trying to fix the problem from the outside.  You have a much better
    chance of success.  It's very difficult to patch a crack so it's 
    watertight from the inside.

    I have to do it from the outside because I have a finished basement.
    I can not see the crack from the inside unless I tear down the walls.
    
    -Shuhua

    	Never underestimate the seemingly simple solutions. I terraced a
    section right in front of my house and left the grade level. Prior to
    this I never had any water in my basement, even under the worst
    conditions. The next heavy rain I had a leak in the basement.
    
    	To fix it, all I did was regrade the slope away from the house and 
    the problem has never reoccured. By regrade, I mean that I took a shovel 
    and shoveled dirt up against the house and raked it so it sloped away from 
    the foundation.
    
    	Ray

You made a point. 

I never had basement water problem before in the past 6 years.
This spring, I pulled out the big,old, deeply rooted wild grapes around
the cracked foundation area. I replaced that area with some shrubs this
summer and watered them frequently  during the unusual dry summer
we just had. The new shrub area is tilted toward the foundation
due to the removal of the wild grapes near the foundation.
So I guess I made a stupid path for water to  run heading toward the foundation.

Well, I guess I should pile up a lot of dirts against the house before it starts
raining this weekend.


-Shuhua

The crack is right below a basement window which is a pretty bad location
because the window is 1/2 above the ground and 1/2 below the ground.
There is a piece of aluminum barrier around that window forming a 1/2
circle between the aluminum barrier and the window.   This means
the level inside of of the 1/2 circle is below the ground line.

The old wild grapes were rooted inside of that 1/2 circle section before.
After I pulling out the grapes, I pile up some rocks  inside
of that 1/2 circle section.   I guess I did several stupid things  :

1. Pulled out the grapes.
2. Piled up the rocks in the 1/2 circle section.
3. Did not make the new landscaping area slope away from the house.
   it is tilted toward the house because the removal of the grapes. 
4. I don't have a dehumidifier in my basement, (I'll be getting one).


I could seal up the crack and pile up the dirts around the house to make it
slope away from the house.  But I am not sure what to do with that 1/2 circle
section around the basement window. I am going to replace the rocks with dirts
up to the bottom of the window. But the cracked section will still be the lowest area 
and vulnerable to the water problem.  

Could anyone give me some ideas?

Thanks.


-Shuhua

I had the same exact problem in last weekend's rain.  I have the same 
window setup.  I hadn't dug up any roots, but I did find that the dirt
butting up next to that aluminum half circle at the foundation was
pitching in quite a bit.  So I added soil and sloped it a bit.  Inside
the half circle it looks pretty level. I left that alone.  Today 
I went to Home Depot and for $6 and change I bought one of those plastic 
window well covers.  

I'm all set for the next big rainstorm!

    I think you probably don't want to bring the dirt level in the window
    well up to the window level; a good downpour and water will build up
    and come in through the window. Rocks give you a little water-storage
    to let things drain out, and also help keep vegetation from taking
    root.
    
    6" of rocks works well.
    
    ...tom

    I have a vertical crack that extends the whole length of the wall. I've
    tried to seal from the inside with hydrolic (sp) cement but during real
    heavy rain water is still seeping in. I would attempt to seal it from
    the outside but the crack sits behind the front stairs and I can't get
    to it unless I remove the stairs. Is there anything else I can do to
    seal the crack up from thr inside?
    
    
    Mark

    
    RE: .-1
    
    Call in the pros... there are outfits that will come in and use a 
    special tool to inject a polymer material deep into the crack to 
    seal from the inside. Still not as reliable as sealing from the
    outside... but a good alternative.

>    to it unless I remove the stairs. Is there anything else I can do to
>    seal the crack up from thr inside?

    Go read the earlier questions and answers offered in this
    conference from years ago. There's a pointer to these in the first
    or second reply to this note.

    Pay particular attention to note 657.*, It offers a suggestion that
    has withstood the test of time and remains dry many years later.

    Charly

    
    A method similar to that mentioned in 657, except using
    a waterproof mastic caulk such as phenoseal, and with a slight variation.
    If the crack is narrow, chisel out a wider line, undercutting the
    sides to form a key.  Then drill directly into the crack with a masonry
    bit every 3-4" along the line of the crack.  Clean the dust
    from the drill holes with a vacuum.
    
    Use a caulking gun to force the mastic into the drill holes and it
    will expand sideways into the crack along its whole length.   Fill
    the chiselled out channel up to the level of the concrete and it's
    good for many years.
    
    Colin
    

I would like to remove the efflouresence (sp?) (white stuff) that has
built up around the crack in my wall.   

I figure that monitoring efflouresence build-up is a good way to see 
if it builds up again after having made some outdoor grading changes.

Any ideas how to get that off?  

(btw, it is possible that the so-called "grand master" of house 
inspectors --no names mentioned-- misstook the efflouresence for evidence
of sealing.  I looked at my 3 yr old house inspection report and the 
crack was noted with the commentary "sealed to prevent seepage".
not so!)

muriatic acid will do it

    
    Here's an opportunity to plug my all time favorite "caulk/sealant",
    especially when using to seal cracks in basement, walls and floors:
    
        		        "LEXCEL"
     
       This stuff is fairly hard to find, I go to Moore's in Chelmsford
       or Ayer (runs about $5.50 an tube). It's a clear sealant (comes 
       in a clear tube) that smells somewhat like airplane glue and is
       incredibly tough and flexible. I found it when it was recommended
       by a radon mitigator as "the best caulk for use with concrete".
    
       I've used it for a lot of things, but it just (finally!) solved 
       my classic "pre-fab bulkhead leaking where it attaches to the 
       house" problem from the inside (I was dreading doing a fix from 
       the outside). 
    
       Follow the directions, work it with a finger dipped in soapy water
       (otherwise, if it gets on you it STAYS on you). 
    
       
                                                               - Mac
       

    Is it possible to replace an old stone foundation, with a new poured
    foundation without tearing down the house that sits on it ? And is it
    possible to do it at a reasonable cost ?  
    

re .381:

Yes, or at least yes if you're willing to accept concrete block foundation.

There's a house in West Townsend that just got a concrete block foundation
under it (it's still jacked up), and I've seen it done twice before
(my grandfather's cottage, built early 60s but improper block foundation
plus frost heaving caused it to start collapsing. Foundation rebuilt early
80s.  Also a summer cottage next door to my father's was originally on piers
with no basement.  Piers were heaving causing the building to be rather
crooked.  Fixing them lasted about 5 years.  Owner then jacked existing
building 6 feet into the air, dug out under it and added a full finished
basement)

Fireplaces are a major complication (although they seem to be able to save
2 chimneys in the West Townsend house)

-Mike

    Re: .381
    
    Yes...although I suppose it depends on your definition of "reasonable
    cost."    I had Robert Miles of Marlboro do a section of my foundation
    a few years ago.  In my case it was a bit easier because most of
    the foundation was above grade, but it's possible in any case.  He
    did a pretty good job, I thought, at a pretty reasonable price.  I 
    thought he was somewhat of a rag-tag operation, but he got the job
    done promptly and didn't seem to cut corners.
    
    I'd get a couple of estimates, if possible.  At the time, he was the
    only guy I could find who would do it.  Some contractors I called
    seemed really spooked at the idea of jacking up a house and replacing
    the foundation, but after watching it done I concluded that in fact
    it's not all that hard if you know what you're doing.

	I've just done this to a portion of my old house.  Your
exact circumstances will affect the cost greatly.  You do want to
find someone who's done this before - you don't want a rookie.

	If it's an entire foundation, it's sometime simplest to lift
the entire house, replace the foundation, and put it back.  Seems like
a lot of work, but it's not really too bad - just like moving the
thing without the horizontal vector.  Much depends on the house, though.

	In my case, I have an old farmhouse, vintage 1835.  The main
house is 2/3rds on a 'full' stone-wall foundation, 1/3rd on a stone
walled crawl space.  The original kitchen 'ell' was built by resting
the timber sills on a single row of rocks, resting on the dirt.  About
15 years back, the owners expanded the ell (longer and wider and taller)
by digging a basement alongside it, supporting one edge with columns.
Unfortunately, over the years the original timbers, in contact with the
dirt below, had contracted terminal terminitus, so I had some work to
do...in short, we gutted the old structure, held up the newer surrounding
building with temporary shoring, removed the original 24' long wall,
poured a new footing and foundation in place, and built a new wall to 
hold up the house.  Got through all that with only minimal settling
to the second floor - I suspect a complete lift and replace would be
cleaner, especially if done by experienced workers.  Check out house
movers - they know how to do it.