Conference 7.286::home_work

    Where are you?
    
    There's Marcello's Marble & Tile on Rt. 9 (West) in Framingham,
    just down the road from Shopper's World.
    
    Marble is not cheap and custom marble work is muchisimo $$$!
    
    -al

    One of the, perhaps THE, major source of marble in the area is Vermont
    - Proctor and East Barre, the homes of (I think) Vermont Marble
    Co. and Rock of Ages quarry.
    
    While driving around East-central Vermont recently, I happened upon
    a shop that did reproductions, and they said they got their marble
    from Proctor.  Small finished pieces were relatively inexpensive,
    but not large ones (harder to find a large perfect piece to work).
    
    If you're planning enough activity to justify the trip, or just
    enjoy driving around very pretty country, they might be good places
    to avoid middle-man mark-ups.
    					- Bill
    

It's real easy to forget everyone isn't in greater maynard to merrimack
corridor like me.  .1 and .2 are both in reasonable locations.  vermont 
is a bit further, but perhaps next spring while driving through might be 
a nice time for a visit to the "source".

-mark

    PRECOURT STONE COMPANY, UNION STREET SUDBURY, MA.  (RIGHT OFF ROUTE
    20) has the largest selection of marble around. From italian to
    vermont marble, they have it all.  They do excellent custom work
    on marble.  It's worth checking out.  Bet the prices are great as
    well.

    Wow, Mark, I wish I had your budget!!
    
    I recently priced a round finished slab of (colored) granite, about
    40" in diameter, to make a kitchen table.  The best price I found
    was on the order of $800.  And that FOB Vermont!
    
    No matter what you're willing to pay, I'd caution you about marble:
    It's highly pourous, and hence it stains easily.  And permanently.
    It's also relatively soft, so it scratches.  As a result of these
    considerations I passed on marble and decided to concentrate on
    granite.
    
    I won't be building that table for a while yet...
    
    Peter

    
    			<Slate or Flagstone Walkway>   
    
         I am new to the notes file and this HOME_WORK has been very
    helpful already by just going through the various topics. However,
    I don't think I saw anything on my next project at hand.
         I am planning on putting in a walkway made of either slate or 
    flagstone. Does anyone know the advantages/disadvatages of using
    either one? The area I have to put this down in has already been
    filled in, a few years ago, with about 6-8 inches of sand/gravel/
    stone dust with 1 inch of 3/8 clean stone on top. What I would 
    like to do is dig out about 3-4 inches of the stone dust base to
    lay in sand to hold the slate. I have read that where there has
    been no base, you need to go at least 6 inches down with either
    sand or stone dust base, I would assume, for protection from frost 
    causing the stone to settle or heave. Should using the exsisting
    base be good enough with clean sand being put in to hold the stones
    in place?
         The next problem is lining edge of the path to hold back the
    3/8 clean stone. I was planning on laying in pressure treated 2x4's
    with stakes to hold them in place. Are there any suggestions as
    to other possibilities since this method may not be too asthetically
    pleasing to my SO who will also use this walk? 
         I also need to know of what I may need to cut the stone if
    I can't get them to fit together as they come. Any help here would
    be greatly appreciated.
    
    Thanks in advance for help laying out my future paths...
    
    Bill

    So far, I've laid two front walks.  One was brick in sand, and the
    other is Granite rip-rap in sand.  Basically, the theory was to
    have a good layer of sand under the paving material, keep the edges
    clean and crisp (for the brick walk, I used bricks at 45 degrees
    as the edges, for the granite walk, I used large pieces with straight
    edges), and to use stone dust between the paving material like mortar.
    
    I also used a 2 foot piece of 2X4 and a hammer to keep things even.
    
    I've never done a flagstone (slate) walk.  
    
    In case you're wondering what granite rip-rap is, it's waste pieces
    that result from cutting.  So, one face is smoothe, and the other
    faces are irregular.  Most of the pieces are 1 foot square, with
    thicknesses varying from 1 to 4 inches.  The shape is irregular
    as well.
    
    No matter what you do, mother nature will win!
    
    Bill
    

Flagstones are *very* slippery when wet.  I'd use something with
more grip, but they do look good.

R.

   Where do you buy granite rip-rap and how expensive is it? 
    
    

    I did the same thing this summer and it came out looking real good.
    I used the presure treated lumber also.  I was amazed how it went.
    To cut the stone, I used flagstone, I used a stone chisel and hammer.
    

    I've been buying the granite from my brother-in-law who has a
    construction company in the Concord NH area.  He gets it from a
    quarry in that area. 
    
    My price is real cheap ($100 per ton), and not what he'd sell to
    real customers for.  I also do all the loading of the truck, all
    the driving, and all the unloading.  It's a real back breaker.
    
    I used about 3 tons to do a walk 4' X 35'.  I had 6 tons to start
    with, and have big plans for the other 3 tons next year.  One real
    nice thing about granite, it doesn't rot or wash away (it does "walk"
    away), so you can pace yourself.
    
    Bill
    

    I heartily agree with the response a few back, flagstone is extremely
    slippery.  My mother-in-law has it and it is treacherous.  Depending
    on your walkway, you could put up a railing to hold onto in icy
    weather, etc.
    
    

    re.5 granite dosent rot.
    I belive this depends on the type of granite and source.
    Out here in colorado we have whole mountains made of rotten granite
    that cannot be used for much of anything short of ski slopes;-)
    -j
    

    Yeah, you have to watch that grainte...5,000,000 years or so, and
    before you know it the stuff is going soft on you.

    That's why you have to let it dry before you can ski on it.
    

    I believe that 'rotten' granite, is really granite with many fractures
    which gives it the 'crumbling' effect. It is NOT rotten.
    
    Thanks for a good laugh!
    
    

    glad you enjoyed it..
    
    The granite I speak of is Pikes Peak granite(precambrian) and is
    very prone to breakdown due to the fractures. Water gets into the
    cracks and causes the stone to spaul pea sized gravel.
    This has resulted in many born again rock climbers after the surface
    they are standing on decides to break loose forming ballbearings
    of sorts...
    
    P.S. I fall into the aforementioned ranks hence my term ROTTEN.
    
    -jerry
    

    
    	Years ago when I was a kid we vacationed in the upper New
    	England area.  We visited the Vermont marble country, and
    	my dad bought a slab of marble 4' x 1.5' x 1".  He is, and
    	always was a tightwad, so I can't imagine that it was too
    	expensive.  He made a beautiful coffee table with it 
    	(although personally I think that the PINK marble is ugly)
    	and it has survived almost 20 years of abuse from his 5
    	kids.  It has a thick glossy finish (lacquer maybe?  It was
    	definitely before the days of polyurethane).  Now I cannot
    	vouch for it being inexpensive today (relatively) based on
    	its cost 20 years ago, but I can say that it can last based
    	on the way it has stood the test of time for my dad.
    
    	BTW.  If I am not mistaken, he had it shipped to NJ when he 
    	bought it.
    
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    	I was just at OLDE BOSTONIAN and they had some really nice
    	used slabs of marble.  I do not know any thing about price
    	however I did buy some used molding (the wide stuff) and
    	the prices were 60% less than if I had gotten it new.
    
    	Check it out, you will probably like what you see.
    
    

    We'd like to have a slate entryway but have no idea on cost. I've
    seen "cut" slate which is rectangular. Does anyone know about irregular
    cut slate (oval or not perfect cut rectangular)?
    
    Pam 

>    We'd like to have a slate entryway but have no idea on cost. 

We put slate in our entryway too.  The standard #2 slate comes in 10 sq ft 
boxes, which we got on sale for $8 at Grossmans, usually $10-$11.  At tile 
stores you can pay upwards of $2.00 a square foot for #1 slate, but I actually 
like the #2 better because it has a little more character - the #1 is too 
regular.  The mastic, grout, and sealer was about $.60 a sq ft, if I remember 
right.  So total materials should be under $2.00 a sq ft, and perhaps under 
$1.50.  

It's pretty easy to do yourself.  You need to buy just two cheap tools - a 
notched trowel and a rubber float.  Laying the slate, you just mix some mastic, 
spread it out, and stick down the slates.  It's easier than tile because the 
joint spacing is not nearly as critical as with tile.  You do need to get a
different cutter for slate than the standard tile cutters - they don't work
well on slate - and we had a little bit of trouble finding one but wound up
getting it at a tile supply place.  Then grouting is also pretty easy - spread
it out with the float, and wipe it up with a sponge. 

I have no idea what someone would charge to install it for you.

>   I've seen "cut" slate which is rectangular. Does anyone know about irregular
>   cut slate (oval or not perfect cut rectangular)?
    
Nope.  Never seen anything like that.  How would you put oval slates together
anyway?  There are things like hexagonal terra-cotta tiles, but I've only seen
slate in the retangular shapes. 

Paul

    I've heard that the theory behind irregularly-shaped slate is to
    make the pieces more-or-less 5-sided, and to fit them together
    starting with that basic guideline.  Since none of the pieces are
    the same size, it's sort of a giant jigsaw that you make up as you
    go along, choosing a piece, or an edge of a piece, that fits best
    in a particular location.
    I've never actually done this - just heard about it.  I don't know
    how accurate the information is.  Perhaps if you look at some 
    irregular slate work with that in mind you'll be able to see (or
    maybe not see?) the 5-sided patterns.

    I am interested in putting marble (or marble look alike) thresholds
    between my kitchen and family room, and bathroom and hallway.
    I would need to cut these to fit around my door jambs. Does anyone
    know if marble can be cut or chiseled to provide a decent fit?
    I know Corian can be cut but that stuff is ridicuously expensive.
    Has anyone had any experience with marble thresholds??        
    Does anyone know any dealers in the Worcester-Fitchburg area where
    marble thresholds can be ordered?
    
    DS

It's easier than you think. Just go to any tile place, they will have it.
(I got one in Color Tile for ~$10).

Believe me, it's much softer than tiles, and you only have one to cut!

Good luck!

    There are standard sizes available at any tile store.  They come
    in white and tan usually.  The tan ones are more expensive.  If
    the standard sizes don't work for you, then you can cut one by using
    a carbide blade for your hacksaw.  These can be bought for a couple
    a bucks at the tile store (Color Tile).  They look more like hanger
    wire covered with grit rather than a metal cutting blade.
    
    -al

    the marble threshold that I bought from Tile City was a standard
    lenght, (28"). if you are able to slide into the door opening all
    you have to do is cut the door stops on both side jambs, if you
    have to drop it in place because of an existing floor etc. then
    you'll either have to remove the door stop strips, or cut the marble
    to fit around it.
    
    
    
    
    
    Royce

    We put a slate floor down in our entryway, just like Paul explained
    in .1.  Our OUTSIDE walkway is made of the irregular shaped slate,
    which we picked up at Camosse's on Route 20, Worcester area, for
    I think 10 cents per pound.  Camosse's is a brick/tile, etc store. 
    
    It comes in rather large pieces, so you would probably have to cut
    it to fit your entryway (depending on its size).  Also, you may not 
    have a close fit, leaving some rather large gaps, that may not look
    good filled with just mortar.  Our outside walkway is very long, so 
    the large pieces and gaps blend nicely.
                                                                      

    Try talking to a flunky tile layer.  NOT the boss, one of the flunkies.
    I had such a guy install 3 such sills for $50.  I didn't have to
    worry about cutting it, installing it or anything.  He was moonlighting
    and I think he got his materials for free. {;-)
    
    Stan

    I just remembered that this irregular shaped slate is often called
    "Flagstone" and does come in various shapes: 5 sides, 4 sides, 
    3 sides, and even rounded corners.

    We just had a 'regular' shaped slate entryway put in our house.  I don't
    remember the price.  I'll make a point of looking it up tonight.  I
    did use Deans Carpet in Manchester for the work though.

    George

    Yes marble can be cut very easy I've used a carbide cut-off blade
    and it works great. BTW-This makes enough dust to create a small
    large dust storm use a respirator.
    
    -j
    

    A gravestone company might be able to help you too, if you're talking
    about a piece bigger than you'd want to tackle with available hand
    tools.

    Try Precourt in Sudbury on Union (?) Avenue, just north of Rt. 20.
    They sell an extensive line of marble and might be able to cut yours
    if you haven't already got the job done.
    
    	Marlene

We have marble floors in the kitchen and bathroom and are looking for a way to 
remove "stains" from acid liquids.

The marble is just polished and therfore becomes opaque wherever acid liquid 
(orange juice, champagne etc.) hits the stone - and it goes really fast - no 
chance to prevent the loss of polish by removing the liquid right away.

So the real question actually is: Is there a way to repolish the stone so it 
becomes shiny again? I mean, they have had to polish the stone before putting
it on the floor - but how?

Thanks for any advice, Ronny 

    Actually, Ronny, the installation I saw (in Italy) was polished
    *after* installation. The commercial installers have a machine which
    looks very much like a floor polisher, but uses a different kind
    of polishing pad, and a polishing compound.
    
    The polishing process is the same that is used to make "beach stones"
    or other rough stones into jewelry. It generally consists of using
    progressively finer grit or polishing compound until the desired
    state of polish has been achieved. (Optical polishing, and even
    wood sanding also proceed in the same manner)
    
    If you can find a hobby supply which has rock polishing supplies
    then ask for a very fing grit (#600), a pre-polish (around 1200
    girt), and a final polish. The materials will probably be silicon
    carbide (for the coarser grits) and some type of oxide, such as
    tin oxide or cerium oxide (for final polish). You need a relatively
    hard material for the polish, but certainly don't need to go into
    using diamond for the polishing.
    
    I would suggest using a felt pad, if you can get one, and at least
    start with a hand operation. The amount of polishing needed will
    depend upon how rough the acids have etched the stone. Do a trial
    polish in a less noticeable spot (if possible), starting with just
    the final polish. If several minutes of rubbing a slightly wet slurry
    of the polish with the felt pad over a small area (about 3 to 5
    inches diameter) doesn't seem to bring back the sheen, you will
    then have to resort to a multi-step process, starting with the coarser
    grit to even out the roughness, then progressing to finer polish
    to bring up the sheen.
    
    As an alternative, it seems that you might be able to get a local
    installer to do it for you at a fairly reasonable price.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Bill

I assume that by "opaque" you mean it goes from a gloss finish to a satin 
finish, but that the color and beauty of the marble is still normal.  I think 
what I would do is wash the whole floor with orange juice to get it all to a 
uniform satin finish, and then never worry about it again.  It sounds like a 
lot of work to restore the gloss, and I wouldn't want to be afraid of a 
Saturday's buffing every time I poured a glass of juice.

Paul

    I checked the keywords file with little luck. I'm looking for a
    supplier of larger slab slate or blue stone. I want to make a weather
    roof over my fireplace chimney flue to keep the rain out while keeping
    the older appearance of the chimney. I'm looking for a piece about
    30" X 48" or two pieces 30" x 24". I found the 30x24 at Corriveau
    Routhier, in Nashua but would perfer the one larger piece. Does
    anyone have any suggestions in the southern NH/MA area? Thanks!

    
    Corriveau Routhier, Nashua NH
    
    pbm
    

    	Try Precourt and Sons in Sudbury, Ma they have almost any kind
    	of stone in any size you can imagine, they will cut to size.
    	Sorry I don't have the number.
    
    	Paul
    

    Precourt's number is 443-6717.  As .2 mentioned, they will cut to
    size.  A guy here at work got 24 x 36 pieces for a walkway.
    
    
    Mark
    

    I am looking for suggestions on resurfacing or refinishing
    a piece of soapstone that goes on top of a woodstove.
    
    It has a few scratches in it, on both sides.  Can it be sanded,
    polished or anything?
    
    Bonnie

    I have a soapstone top on my coal stove. I use 0000 steel wool and rub
    the scratches out. If they are deep you might try 000 then follow up 
    with 0000 to finish. Do it outside though because you'll be generating 
    alot of dust. 
    
    Ray

    I'm not sure if the soapstone can take that kind of punishment plus
    its pretty expensive stuff. I'd find a scrap piece of exterior
    plywood and coat it with spar varnish. 

    I have just finished cutting and shaping a marble threshold which
    will seperate my kitchen and dining room( pretty hard stuff for
    being soft). Now in order for me to "fit" this threshold into the
    floor I need to remove remove a section down to the sub flooring.
    My question is this, do I need to put anything on the sub flooring
    before I laythe marble down. In other words should I use some sort
    of floor leveler (like in putting down tile) or even an adhesive?
    I'm sure the marble will hold itself by weight alone, I would rather
    not put anything in the hole if possible, because the more that
    goes inthere the more the stone will stick out.
      A few things which could be a factorin the result.
    1. The sub flooring is tongue and groove planking.
    2. Directly below the sub flooring (running parralell with my
       threshold) is the main carrying timber (8"X8" or so). Thus minimal
       movement if any at all.
    3. When walking over this area there are no squeaks.
    4. The marble itself is 5"wide by 65" long by 1" thick in the center
       tapering to 3/4" on the sides.
    
    Thanks in advance
         GUY 

    I have two marble thresholds in my house.  One from ceramic tile to
    hardwood, the other from ceramic tile to carpet.  The ceramic tile
    installer put in both at the time the tile was laid.  He laid down
    a bed of tile grout under the thresholds and said it was to prevent
    them from cracking.
    
    Jim
    

    
    RE: .1
    
    >installer put in both at the time the tile was laid.  He laid down
    >a bed of tile grout under the thresholds and said it was to prevent
                   ^^^^^
    >them from cracking.
    
    Are you sure is wasn't mastic or some other type of adhesive?  I
    thought grout went between tiles?
    
    RE: .0
    
    You might want to ask call a tile store and see what they recommend.
    I would think the same principles would apply to marble.
    

RE: .0

	I have placed three marble thresholds down myself. Two of them
were just like yours (over a steady beam, tongue & groove subfloor).

	As was suggested you should put in a mastic or cement base to
secure the marble. I broke one of mine while trial fitting because of
an uneveness in the subfloor. The adhesive will prevent it from moving
and provide the even support required for marble.

Bill

    FWIW, the guys at Marcello marble in Watertown insist that you must
    use ONLY thinset under marble, never adhesives.  
    
    What with the price of good marble, I never experimented to find out
    whether they meant what they said.
    
    Also, if there is any flex whatsoever to whatever is under the marble
    (usually not the case at a doorway), you should throw some latex into
    the thinset to give it a bit of spring when cured.

    
    
    
    I used the floor leveler when I installed the marble threshold
    in my bathroom, this is what Tile city recommended.
    
    
    
    Royce

    
    
    I recently installed 2 marble thresholds using Plaster of Paris
    as a leveler/adhesive. The Plaster of Paris hardens quickly (10 min)
    so mix it just before your going to use it.
    
    
    
    Dan

    re: last 2
    
    Plaster of Paris or leveling goop performs the same function as thinset 
    (dries hard as rock with no give) so I guess it would be equally
    acceptable.

I'd like to put ceramic tile down over linoleum.  Do I need to nail down
some plywood first and then put the tile on the plywood?  The linoleum
is over concrete.
Thanks,
John

    The mastic or epoxy concrete mixture will not adhere very well to
    linoleum.  I suggest you either remove the linoleum or install 1/4 inch
    luan plywood over the linoleum.
    
    -al

I put mosaic ceramic  tiles  down  over linoleum in the bathroom about 15 years
ago.  I did nothing  special  to prepare the floor, just applied the waterproof
cement per instructions on the can.    We  have  not  had any problems with the
floor since.  "The book" (which I  had  not read then) says to put down plywood
first.

Luck,

Dave

I checked through the keyword listing, but didn't find a note on this topic.

My house has a slate foyer, and a couple of the slate tiles have cracked
or small pieces have come loose.  It appears that the previous owner did
some sort of repair, perhaps with a kind of epoxy, but I'm not sure.  How does
one repair a slate floor without ripping out the tiles and replacing them?


				Steve

No ideas?

>My house has a slate foyer, and a couple of the slate tiles have cracked
>or small pieces have come loose.  It appears that the previous owner did
>some sort of repair, perhaps with a kind of epoxy, but I'm not sure.  How does
>one repair a slate floor without ripping out the tiles and replacing them?

	If you just want to fix the cracks, you could just chip out the
crack to the grout width, and fill with grout. This assumes you have free
formed slate tiles.... If they are square, rip the piece out and replace....

	You could fix the previous patchs the same way...

				Bill

    Define "repair."  What do you want to achieve?  An invisible fix?
    I can't think of any way to fix the slate so it's not a visible
    patch.  There is also the question, "Why did it crack in the
    first place?"  Answer, probably, is because the underlying floor
    isn't solid enough to support the slate properly.  Thus, the slate
    will probably crack again even if somehow you do manage to patch
    it.
    If I wanted an inconspicuous repair, I guess I'd get some really
    good-quality epoxy (not the baragain stuff) and attempt to work
    it into the cracks with a very thin knife blade or maybe a piece
    of thin feeler gage stock (.003" or something).  
    The idea of creating new grout lines along the crack (.2) is another
    possibility.

It's entirely possible that the floor underneath isn't strong enough to
keep the slate from flexing.  I suppose the effect I'm looking for is 
something that doesn't look conspicuous, and that doesn't move when you
step on it.  I think the previous owner used epoxy.

			Steve

    
    
    
    	I'll be putting slate down in the area where my woodstove
    	is going it's about 3 times less expensive than the grey 
    	ceramic tile I was looking at ....
    
    	What's the slate cutter 'thingy' called ? Would Grossmans
    	have it ? They do have the best price.
    
    		Color Tile  	   $2.29 sq ft
    		Sommerville Lumber $1.89 sq ft
    		Grossmans	   $1.18 sq ft
    
    
    						Mike
    						----

Some stores will let you borrow the tile cutter free if you buy the slate
from them.  However, I found that some kind of scoring tool, a couple of
wood blocks and a mallet worked for me.  It's sort of like drywall - you
don't need to make much of a cut to have the slate break cleanly, as long
as you apply the stress straight along the score and support the piece.

			Steve

	We are laying the tile floors in my house.  This is new construction.  
The interior doors have not arrived on site, yet.  There is going to be tile in both 
the hall and the bathroom.  Two different types and colors of tile, they are 
both the same thickness 1/4".  

	One of the two alternatives that we have come up with is to forget 
about a threshold and try as near as possible to get the color change to be 
directly under the door.  The other is to put in a marble threshold, which would
give a visual break between the two tiles.

	My questions are this:  Is it possible to put the threshold in place 
before the door?  Or, do we leave enough space for the threshold and fit it in 
after the door is installed?

Opinions?  Experience?

Thanks,

Andy_who_has_gotten_much_help_from_this_file_during_the_building_of_this_house.	

    re. .11
    I did this two years ago; installed ceramic flooring in new bath and in
    adjoining entrance hall.  I did use a marble threshold and installed it
    after the bathroom door and frame had been installed.  In fact, it was
    the first thing I did before installing any tiles.  I can't imagine
    trying to install the door after the floor is in, since there's no way
    to forcast exact dimensions of the door jam and moldings.
    
    After installing all the ceramic flooring, and after the entire process
    was complete, I then had the carpeting installed.  
    
    Good luck!
    

    
    
    	Well I finally put it down... 210 sq ft of slate and I'm in no
    	rush to repeat the procedure. Just about every part of my body
    	hurts.
    
    	It's been a couple of days so now I'm ready for the grout. The tile
    	was sitting outside in some Vermont quarry for awhile before it was
    	boxed so it was pretty dusty when I put it down and here and there	
    	are now hand smears from from wet mortar.
    
    	Color Tile sold me some stuff called Grout Release that I should put
    	on the tiles before grouting so that the grout doesn't get absorbed
    	by the porous surface but before I do that I want to clean the
    	tiles.
    
    	What's the best stuff to use ? I was think of an abrasive cleanser
    	like Comet or Ajax...
    
    						Mike
    						----
    

I'm pretty sure this isn't answered in this file yet...

How does one remove a water ring stain from a marble tabletop?

--bob

I assume you have a light colored table with a dark colored
ring. The bad news is MARBLE is extremely porous and it is quite
possible that unless the surface it completely sealed,
that the coloring has gotten INTO the top surface marble.
The godd news is that there is a slight chance that the same
porousity will allow BLEACH to work it's way into the table
and possibly BLEACH the area white again....

Besides that, I know of no other ways short of having the surface
ground down by a professional stone cutter and re-polished.

    Actually it has been discussed before in note 2850.   A slightly
    different angle so this can stay I guess. 
    
    You might also want to post this is INDEC::ANTIQUE_COLLECTIBLE.  That
    crowd does refinishing on furniture and may be able to offer some
    cleaning hints.   Hit keypad 7 to add INDEC::ANTIQUE_COLLECTIBE to your
    notebook.
    
    Oh by the way, I found 2850 by using 1111 and looking under keyword
    cleaning.

Hi!

Approximately, two years back, I got marble floor installed.  It was 
shinning like a glass when it was installed.  However, now the shine is 
not the same.  When the marble was installed, I sealed with one of the 
recommended sealer from the marble store.  As marble is porous, I have 
always used the mild cleaner, again, recommended by the store.  I would 
like to rent the polisher from the Sudbury rental.  I need the following 
help:

The area is approximately 500 sq ft.

What size polisher, I should use? (8" and 12")

The store recommended that I should use 1 gallon of water and mix the 1 
table spoon of polish and just wipe the floor.  If I am going to use the 
polisher, I should have little more wet floor.

The professional will charge me $1.25 a square foot.  The rental machine 
is approximately $20 to $30 per day including brushes.

Of course, I do not want to ruin the floors.  Also, I have put lot of 
orientals in the foyer area.  So really area below is just fine.

Your suggestion are welcome

Thanks

Unmesh

My family has always had good luck with Trewax trerrazo floor polish. 
Just put it on with a damp mop and it shines. No poishing machine
needed. We've used it on quarry tile and stone floors -- it should work
on marble too.

>>>==>PStJTT

	I have a soap stone sink that is dismantled and am interested in
	cutting some of it.  Does anyone have any idea about cutting this?
	Can you use a circular saw with a special blade? If so is this an
	expensive item?  

	Thanks,
	 Dick

How thick is it and what size pieces do you want to cut?

Soap stone is soft - relitively speaking. If you are just playing around
with it, try a hack saw. I don't believe you need a diamond saw. If you
do, don't try a circular saw - too dangerous. Maybe a jigsaw? A Dremel?

Mickey.

    The stone is about an inch and half thick.  I am thinking about making 
    book_ends.  
    
    

    A hacksaw will do it, slowly.  Or a bandsaw, run slowly.  The blade
    may need replacement afterwards.. ;-)   
    I second the suggestion about not using a circular saw - it might 
    work, but I'd hate to be anywhere around while it was happening.
    
    In general, you can cut it with "normal" tools, it just takes a long
    time.  Have patience.

They have circular sawblades designed for cutting masonry.  I've never used one
so I don't know how good/bad they work.

-Mike

I used a cutoff blade in a circular saw to cut concrete pavers and bricks.
It would either work on soapstone, or it wouldn't, but nothing disastrous
is likely to happen if you try it.  

    There are abrasive disks designed to be used in a circular saw
    available at any hardware store. I've used one to cut through some
    pretty dense mortar (used between bluestone slabs), and cut
    through a brick to try it out. You might be able to get through
    soapstone with one, but I'd take serious precautions: face
    protection, long sleeves, gloves, and a very light touch (in case
    the disk decides to break). They put up a lot of dust, so
    breathing protection (and working out-of-doors) is also advised. 

    	Try a wet circular saw, this is one with a diamond blade that will
    cut anything. I used one to cut 5/8" corry tiles, what a breeze....
    perfect cuts (must be square cuts, no fancy stuff...), very easy.
    
    	The abrasive disks make a lot of dust, sparks, etc.... not even
    cuts as the wet saw blade is always in water, No dust!

    	You can rent these at a local rental place - some  tile places may
    have them also.

    Unless you have recent personal experience using (or at least watching)
    a circular saw to cut the soapstone, and unless you have a lot of
    justifiable confidence, I strongly discourage you from attempting it.
    
    Wet saw sounds good!
    
    Another thought...
    Somebody mentioned a hack saw, fine idea. I bought a group of at least
    20 hacksaw blades for -what- a buck. They are disposable and safe and
    slow of course.
    
    Another thought...
    There is available for attachment to a hacksaw a 'woven' blade that is
    perhaps 1/8"-3/16" in diameter. I believe I bought mine to cut some ceramic
    tile many, many years ago. Inquire at any hdware store.
    
    Another thought
    Cold chisels (if you happen to have any)
    Snap a chalk line, score it with one of the chisels, then go back and
    forth along the score line smacking it with a chisel (and hammer). Saw
    it done on This Old House to a slab of rock say 1 1/2" thick. Looks
    amazingly easy. If necessary, could finish off with ceramic snippers
    and -maybe- a file.
    
    I have tried this technique to 'reduce the size of some unmovable
    boulders'. Not easy!
    
    
    				herb
    

ditto .9  

	I cut an overflow channel in my basement soapstone tub by carving it
with a hand chisel.  I found the stuff to be amazingly soft and easy to work
with and the chisel didn't appear to suffer any ill effects.  

-Bob

Soapstone can be carved.  Inuits (formerly Eskimos) do beautiful soapstone 
carving.  I don't understand all the fear of circular saws that's being 
expressed here.  If I have on eye protection, ear protection, stand in a
normal position behind the saw,  and pay tons of attention to what I am doing,
what danger am I in?

    Probably no danger, but it will make an *ASTOUNDING* mess to clean
    up afterwards.

>If I have on eye protection, ear protection, stand in a
>normal position behind the saw,  and pay tons of attention to what I am doing,
>what danger am I in?

I don't think there's any real danger, but I think that you have a better
chance of chipping the stone with a power blade...

				- bruce

>>what danger am I in?
None if everything goes right. It's those little surprizes that make the
concept interesting.

Mickey.

    Not much activity in this note lately, but I hope someone will see
    this and offer some suggestions...
    
    We live in a standard split-level ranch, and have just remodeled the 
    basement. Part of that job is to install wall-to-wall carpeting, and
    bring it up the staircase to the riser just below the landing at  the
    entranceway. The landing and the upper staircase are already covered
    with wall-to-wall; however, it clashes bigtime with the new basement 
    carpet. I've decided to rip up the carpeting on the landing and replace
    it with slate, to provide a visual break between the two different carpets
    as well as to increase the durability of the entranceway. My question
    is this: 
    
    	How can I butt the slate to the new carpeting? Should I bring the
    new carpet up and over the lip of the landing (figure A)? Or do I bring
    the slate to the very edge of the landing, and end the carpet just
    underneath the lip (figure B)? Or do I use some sort of trim  piece
    (figure C)? Or is there better method other than the above?
    
    (My apologies for the crude drawings...)
    
    NOTE: --- represents slate		^^^ represents trim
    	  ||| represents carpet
    
    Figure A:			Figure B:		Figure C:
    
    ----||||||			----------		------^^^^
    	    ||				||			^^
    	  ||||			      ||||		      ||^^
    	  ||			      ||		      ||
    	  |||||||||		      ||||||||||	      ||||||||||
    		 ||			      ||		      ||
    	       ||||			    ||||		    ||||
    
    
    	
    Any comments, suggestions or ideas would be appreciated. The carpet
    will be installed in two weeks, so I need to make a decision and get
    the slate installed a.s.a.p. Thanks in advance
    
    Freddie

Re: .10

I would advise choice C.  Without some sort of threshold at the edge
of the slate, it WILL crumble and chip over time, if not butted up against
something of the same height and solid.  Even then you could have problems -
my slate foyer butts up against the sheet vinyl of the kitchen, and there
has been some fracture of the slate at the edge.

			Steve

    I had a similar problem with the ceramic tile in my kitchen: it has to
    meet the steps that lead down into the family room.
    
    The answer has to be "C": use a trip peice, because with A the carpet
    will come up, and because its not flush, you'll trip on it.  With B,
    the edge of the slate will splinter.  Also, I hate to think of someone 
    slipping on the stairs and banging their shins or kneecaps against that
    slate edge.
    
    There are various commercial stair nosings that you can buy, but most
    of them look awful.  Tile shops keep marble strips made for this
    purpose, but to my mind, they too look awful with slate or dark tile.
    I made my own nosing out of a piece of oak molding.  Having calculated
    the finished height of the tile (in your case, slate) floor, I nailed
    and glued an "L" shapped strip of oak over the edge of the landing; the
    carpet is behind the oak.  Then I filled the nail holes, and gave the
    oak a few coats of poly.  Then laid the tile/slate, leaving the normal
    1/4" grout space between the oak and the last tile.  Then grout in the
    normal way.  The grout fills the gap, and helps to eliminate any
    movement in the oak nosing. 
    
    
    	--------XXXXXX
                    =X
                    =X
                    =
                    =
                    =
                     /||||||||||/
                                 =
                                 =
    
    	= represents carpet on the riser
       || represents carpet on the tread
    	X represets oak moulding
    
    My oak was about 1 1/4" on a side.  It's been down for three or four 
    years now, and the stain has worn off in a couple of places, but
    otherwise is great.
                            
    	Andrew
    

One change I would make to the previous reply is to not leave the grout line at
the edge of the trim.  The wood will move with time (expand, contract).  This 
will eventually crack the grout.  We put tile in our entryway.  We butt the
tile to the baseboard and the stairs.  This is how we were told it was supposed
to be done by the tile folks.

Ed..

    I've done some soapstone carving (and sawing to get the piece to size).
    .9 is quite correct in every one of his responses.
    
    Soapstone has different properties than other stone or masonry.
    The internal structure often determines how is fractures, whether
    you're carving or sawing. I always used a hand saw and found it quite
    easy to cut whatever I needed in a very short amount of time.
    
    Soapstone kicks up a *lot* of very fine dust - talc, actually. It's
    *unhealthy* so you should wear a mask even if you're cutting the
    stone by hand.
    
    Becuase of the odd fractures, I wouldn't dare use a power tool - 
    when things come flying off unexpectedly you could get hurt.
    
    If you cut the sink with a hand saw, you can finish up the seam
    with a sanding block and a little light oil. Don't worry about
    leaving a jagged edge. As with any sanding, use progressively
    finer paper and it'll look fine.

    I had a similar problem and solved it by doing as -2 and -1 suggested.
    It worked out real nice.  Be sure that your landing is braced and
    supported so there is no spring.  Other wise the grout will crumble
    between the slates.

    Does anyone know of an effective cleaning product to use on 
    slate tiles?  
    
    Thanks!

RE: .1

>> Then grouting is also pretty easy - spread it out with the float, 
>> and wipe it up with a sponge. 

I realize the author may not be here to answer the question, but I have a 
question about this.  It seems to be taking forever for the grout to be wiped
up.  My husband started doing this, and after a week, he feels the grout will
not clean up with just water and a sponge.

He wants to use muriatic acid, like the mason did on our brick fireplace.  I
think it's extreme.  How does this sound as a way to finish the project?

Elaine

    RE: .16
    
    I used full strength muriatic acid to clean up the slate, after I 
    groutted the slate. Worked fine. Just use common sense...the acid
    will burn you eyes....etc. I used some rubber gloves.
    
    Afterwards, I rinsed with water. Fizzed some.
    
    Marc H.

re    <<< Note 2054.16 by CADSYS::FLEECE::RITCHIE "Elaine Kokernak Ritchie" >>>
>                          -< Finishing the grouting >-
    
    A couple of things can give problems with grout finishing.  It is
    important that the mixture be correct (not too sopy, not too dry) and
    that it be allowed to slake (sit).  Then, apply the grout, force it
    down between the tiles and then make sure the level of the grout is
    slightly lower than the level of the slate.  After that, it is just a
    matter of letting it dry, and that can take a while.
    
    If the grout was too soupy, it will seem like it takes forever to set. 
    If it was too dry, it will NEVER set properly; it will always be dusty.
    
    Once it is dry, a mild muriatic mix is usually sufficient to clean the
    surface of the tile.  
    
    One problem comes up when the grout is at the same level as the tile. 
    When you are cleaning the surface of the tile, you will also be
    `cleaning' the surface of the grout, releasing some of the grout and
    making it appear that you just cannot seem to get all of the grout
    cleaned off the tile.  That is, you actually add to the problem while
    trying to clean it up.  If the grout and tile are at the same level,
    carefully clean the tile while avoiding the grout.  It is a chore, but
    it will do the trick.
    
    Another problem is that slate is `pourous' as compared to glazed tile.
    When you are cleaning the tile, all you really are doing is making a
    very soupy solution on the surface and then sopping it up. 
    Unfortunately, that very soupy solution gets into the pours/cracks of
    the slate, drys and leaves a haze that tells you that it needs
    cleaning.  So, clean with a mild muriatic solution, then wash with
    copious amounts of water, do not let the water sit long (no sense in
    breaking down the grout between the tiles) but wipe it up immediately
    using paper towels (very absorbent).  Then vacuum immediately before
    the residue has a chance to settle in.
    
    That's the `right' way to do it and it is labor intensive. Most
    `professional' tile layers usually put the tile down, grout, clean up a
    couple of hours later and take your money.  The guys who give an
    expensive quote usually do it the `right' way, but seldom articulate
    the extra work they do and how that makes their job expensive. Few
    homeowners know the difference; most would pooh-pooh extra work for the
    results achieved.
    
    Luck,
    
    Dave
    
    
    
    

I am planning to put a 'S' Shape curved walkway in from the front porch to the
driveway. When visting my in-laws, I noticed a lot of houses in their
neighborhood has Flagstones imbedded in the cement. Since my in-laws have given
me their flagstones, I figure I would do the same. Have anyone done this before
or seen it done?

I figure I would put 3" of gravel and then 3" of cement on top. After leveling
and letting it set a little, I would pour another inch of cement on top and
insert the flagstones. 

The only problem is how would I go about putting expansion joints or edge lines
in. Would I even need it for a 25' sidewalk? 

Dave      

	re: -4  gave me an idea...

	We have a cement walkway which I think is quite unattractive.  
	Could we lay something like flagstones over it, or perhaps
	brick?  Is there brick that is cut less than 1 inch thick?
	I originally thought we might have to jackhammer the whole 
	thing out and start from scratch to get a more attractive walk.
	
	Any ideas?

	Karen

    Re -.12
    
    Dave,
    
    There really isn't any compelling reason to lay gravel, then cement,
    then cement to imbede the flagstone, you can do it all in one step -
    pour cement and just lay the stone.  You want to make sure the cement
    is not too watery and that you let it firm a bit before laying the stone
    but they shouldn't sink on you if that is what you are worried about.
    
    In fact, I would think it would cause you more problems to do it as you
    describe.  One - it would be difficult to level the first layer of
    concrete 1 inch below grade and two - even if you could, unless the stones
    are flat and have an even thickness, you won't be able to use the first
    level as a "floor" without risking that the stones will stick up.
     
    I've layed a couple of marble imbeded walkways and never had a problem.
    I do however recommend that you use an edge (plastic lawn edging would 
    work) and for 25', one or two expansion joints would also help.
    

An update on sources of Slab and Tile Marble.

In Newton, Mass on 293 Needham Street is Olympia Marble & Granite.  Lots of 
sample colors on display.  (617) 969-7071.

In Watertown, Mass on 222 Arsenal Street, is Tile America.  A good selection 
on display too and prices seem less that Olympia.  (617) 926-3585.

We have visited both showrooms but have not used either one yet.  We are 
about to have a marble slab cut for bathroom vanity top and have the same 
colow cut and beveled as accent strips in the wall tile.  Believe it or not, 
the cost of cutting, beveling and polishing marble into accent strips is 
about the same as buying the ceramic ones.

Jim

    	I know most of what's been written is for solid marble pieces. What
    I'd like to know, does anyone know companies that sells cultured marble,
    like in marble sinks in the So NH area? I know HD & HQ sell them but
    they have a set pattern & colors and that's it. What I was looking for
    is a marble company that makes marble sinks, tubs & slabs that would be
    willing to make a certain color design for moderate $$$'s.
	
    Thanks for any info.
    Alan

    I was wondering if any Homeworkers could help me.
    
    I need a marble threshold 6"x46" to go on the doorway of a shower
    inclosure I have in my house.  I believe due to the 46" length I am
    having a tough time finding an available piece.
    
    Does anyone know who might have one or who could cut one for me?
    
    I live
    in eastern MA/so N.H area
    
    thank you in advance.

Somerville Lumber has stocked them regularly in the past.  I've never needed
more than 30", but I remember them stocking some pretty long ones, like 4'.

Just call around HD, HQ, etc. and ask.

Go to a ceramic tile store and they should be able to order just about any 
length/width/style you like.  That is how we got an abnormally wide threshold.

Dave

    
    Neither HQ, HD or Somerville stock above 36" anymore. I've been
    searching for one myself.
    
    								- Mac

    re: 11
    
    > or who could cut one for me?
    
    	O.K., pull my finger. Phhhhhhhhhtttt. Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
    
    	I just looked in a Manchester phone book and they had about a 1/2
    dozen vendors selling natural marble and one selling cultured marble.
    If you don't have access to a Manchester phone book let me know and I
    could possibly post some numbers if you tell me whether you're looking
    for natural or cultured marble.
    
    	One other thought. You might try calling some masons in your area
    and ask them for a source. They may have something along these lines
    that they use for fireplace mantles and such.
    
    	Ray
    	

This seems as good a place as any for this (gee I miss the days when this
was the best moderated conference, bar none.  No 1111.* updates since 1991!)

My wife has her heart set on putting (actually me doing the putting) a marble
floor in our soon-to-be-finished master bath.  I keep reading all these horror
stories about how difficult it is to keep clean, to remove stains, to keep
sealed/shined, etc.  I'm trying to convince her to go with glazed tiles.

Her argument back is "Why do all the stores at the malls use it if it is so
hard to keep clean?  Those floors look good to me and certainly take more
abuse that our bath will!"

I have to admit when she uses this argument, I'm stumped.  I did notice 
last time I was there that the Jordan Marsh (or maybe Filene's) at the
Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua does have marble floors and they did look
ok.

Any comments or experiences, pro or con, appreciated.

						Mark

re: .2

On the other hand, one doesn't generally walk around a mall in bare feet.
Somehow the thought of a marble-floored bathroom on a winter day just makes
me shiver!

-Hal

The malls polish marble floors regularly, with a big heavy machine 
that will probably take two people to lug up to your bathroom. I'm 
not even sure that it would fit through the door.  Malls have somewhat 
wider doorways, and arrange their bathrooms to have a minumnum of
crannies.  Malls also replace their floors periodically - under 
the guise of remodelling. 

Also, there are many kinds of marble. Some are more porous (ie, 
easily stained) than others.  The kind that gets used on floors
is less porous and quite expensive.

If you like stone, look at granite. It comes in all kinds of colors,
looks really nice, and does not stain. It won't cost any more than 
floor grade marble. If you live in N.E., you can get N.E. granite 
from a local quarry for considerably less than a flooring store will c
harge.

I completely understand where your wife is coming from.  We have 
tile - it is cheaper and easier to install than floor grade stone.
It also looks nice (although not as nice as stone).

To solve the cold floor problem, you should put in Richard
Trewthewy under floor heating.  I think his company is called "This
Expensive Heating System".

Margaret.

Most of the white marbles are very porous so you may want to avoid them for 
the bathroom.  My parents have Verde Antique (a dark green marble quarried 
only in Vermont) in their bathroom..in fact it is everywhere in the house 
including the kitchen counters (my father was in the marble business).  

It is extremely hard, holds up very well to traffic and it very difficult 
to stain.  It is also very expensive, but looks great.  The cold floor is 
nothing a few scatter rugs can't fix and you'll really impress fiends and 
potential home buyers. 

We have about 15 boxes of white and verde antique 12" tiles we plan to use 
for our dream master bath someday.

-Greg

    Anyone have any experience in cutting soapstone? I have a piece 1X32X84
    that I need to reduce to 24X72. All edges will be exposed and a clean
    finish is required. I think I can score it with a masonry cutting
    blade in a circular saw and straight edge. This should provide a clean
    break line, but how can I get a clean finished edge? Would a carbide
    router bit work if I took real small cuts? 

    Any and all helpful insights welcome,

Hmm.  My soapstone tub in my basement had two separate tubs and no overflow
between them so I just took a rasp and scaped a 1"x 1" connection between
them.  As I recal, the stuff was soft enought that I expect you take a belt
sander to it and get decent results.  Its fun stuff to work with.  What I
was wondering was where does one get the stuff?

    Re: .5
    
    I think there's a soapstone mine someplace in Vermont.
    

    	Not sure about soapstone, but I've had very good results using a
    masonary blade for cement blocks and even ceramic tile. Leaves a very 
    nice clean cut. BTW - I didn't use the blade to score, I used it to cut 
    all the way through.
    
    	Ray

    how about using a wet saw - the one used for cutting tile, marble???
    Makes perfect cuts and a clean finish.
    
    They rent them at rental places or Home Depot can do cuts for a $1.00...
    may be worth a try.

    
    Wet saws (those at HD and those rentable) don't typically handle stock
    much above 12".
                   		

    You can use a diamond masonry blade to cut soapstone.  
    
    Be aware that most grey soapstone (like the stuff used in sinks,
    countertops, etc.) contains asbestos.  You MUST wear an adequate
    dust mask (the cheap ones don't work), or you run the risk of
    inhaling asbestos particulates -- very bad for the lungs.
    
    There is a soapstone quarry and retail outlet in Perkinsville,
    Vermont.  It's called the Vermont Soapstone Company.
    

    We have a painted stone front porch which consists of a shelf and
    retaining wall, supported by a pair of pillars. I don't know exactly
    what stone it is, I always refer to it as sandstone because frost
    damage seems to turn it into sand.

    And that's the problem. We had a vicious frost last winter that has
    left it looking really sad. Some bits of the flat surface are breaking
    away and will leave a shallow crater when they do. Also some sections
    of a heavy ogee moulding round the retaining wall are breaking away.

    I don't think repairing it is a diy job, but I wondered if anyone has
    been in the same situation. Were repairs possible, or were replacements
    necessary?

    It does have a drain hole, but perhaps I should make a cover to stop
    water getting in it in the first place. However I can't see this will
    make much difference as the damage seems to be on the outside surfaces.
    Perhaps I should get more coats of paint on it to protect it.

    Dick
    

    I recently purchased a table top from Bld 19 that is made
    of 1/8" thick (thin) marble tiles layed over wood. I would like
    to use my router to cut a whole in the center of the table to
    accomodate an umbrella. Anyone have any advice on this before I
    get started?
    
    I assume a carbide bit to cut through the thin marble, then maybe 
    switching to a different bit for the 1" thick wood. What about the
    marble chipping? Can it be eliminated?
    
    The marble is layed out in a brick like pattern. The tiles are about
    5"x1.5"x 1/8". So I will be hitting some seams where the tiles meet.
    
    any thoughts?  

Steve,

I have seen local rental stores carry bits for drilling holes into floor/wall
tile.  Don't know what sizes they come in but it might be worth checking into.

Another option might be to use a masons bit, but I would not expect great
results.

Wayne

    Carbide tools designed for wood are probably not going to cut through
    marble (at least not without ruining the bits and probably the tool).
    There are carbide tools designed for cutting through stone and glass
    which can be used.  They are available at some hobby places, because
    they're also used to cut holes through the bottoms of glass jars and
    ceramic vases to turn them into lamps.
    
    Stone is cut by abrasion.  Professionals use diamond tools (small
    particles embedded in metal plating) with water or oil cooling.  It's
    possible to use other abrasives, since marble isn't very hard
    (relatively speaking, compared with other stones and gems).
    
    If you only want to do this once, you can get a cheap metal hole saw,
    or even a plastic or metal tube the diameter of the hole, build a dam
    around the cutting area with clay or plasticine,  and flood the area
    you are drilling with loose abrasive and water (even sand will work if
    you're patient) and grind through.  It shouldn't take long if the tile
    is only 1/8" thick.  This will ruin the hole saw for metal working, but
    you can use a really cheap saw for this.
    
    If you grind properly, you should not get chipping.  However, marble
    with veined patterns through it often has internal flaws, and there is
    always a chance it will split.
    
    (FYI, I do some lapidary work as a copy, which is how I know about
    drilling through stone.)

Got a Dremel tool?  Chuck up an abrasive stone and just carve the
marble away.  

The grinding technique previously mentioned is the best, but would be
best done with a drill press, and if your table is any reasonable size,
you won't have one that reaches the center. 

Be sure to remove the marble in a larger circle than the hole you'll
drill through the wood.  This will prevent you from chipping the
marble while drilling and keep the umbrella shaft from pressing on
the marble edges and cracking chunks loose.